I SAY LETS WIN NOW..

[IndyScribe]

Name 2 TE's & 2 WR's that could replace those 2 in this draft &/or this FA class

Who can do what those 2 have done for this organization so far in their careers?

I agree. Receivers like TY, and TEs like Allen don't grow on trees and most aren't found in the third round. Also the third year is normally a break-out season for receivers.

[TKnight24]

I agree. Receivers like TY, and TEs like Allen don't grow on trees and most aren't found in the third round. Also the third year is normally a break-out season for receivers.

Didn't Hilton have 1,000 yards receiving this year? That's a breakout. Well, not really since he almost had it rookie year too. But he still had a great year. Nonetheless

[IndyScribe]

Didn't Hilton have 1,000 yards receiving this year? That's a breakout. Well, not really since he almost had it rookie year too. But he still had a great year. Nonetheless

Yep, great year from him. He had 1083 yards receiving this year.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Um the Colts are in the top 6 teans in the arc and top 10 in the NFL right now. I'd say the only team that is head and shoulders above any other team is Seattle. Seattle can be beat as any other team in any given week. I think the Colts need to build wisely. I don't remember any team buying their way to a championship. Build a solid core which the Colts have done and add a piece here and there and Draft wisely and the super bowl will come. Maybe not this year or next but it will and there will be more then 1 if done correctly.

Seattle can be beat as any other team in any given week.   The Colts  would beg to differ .  Seattle lost 3 times except for that they can beat most teams in any given week .

 

 TY had 5 good games last season. LMAOff about Dwayne. Good player and of course a real + blocker.

 Luck doesn`t see the whole field so it isn`t likely anyone other than Overtargeted Reggie could have a Great Season. JMO

 

 

 

 .

 We have lots of $$ to spend on player salaries because we have a bunch of 8-8 or worse type players. Not that we can`t go 6-0 in our loser Division AGAIN.

 Seattle may have won the SB because they spent heavily in FA last off season on Quality one year players. Well, and they played Manning Manning.

 

  We are Superbly positioned NOW to get at least 3 High Quality Difference making players locked up for the next 4-5 years.  Contracts are essentially 3 years anyway.

 And have plenty of $ to lock a couple of difference making Veterans in what would essentially be 2 year contracts.

 Plenty of money coming off the books over the next couple years to boot. With NO Guarantee we will be able or Want to Sign All our future FA`s.

 You would have to be silly enough to hire Satele not to get it! JMO of course.

 

.

 

It's over the span of a few years..

From 2013 - 2016  it is 89% each year .

 

Fleener came as close as one could to replacing Allen this year, so i imagine it should be too difficult. Ty will be more difficult I agree but via the draft I think we could find a very close WR specially if the next couple drafts are as WR heavy as this years draft.

 

 

 

Fleener    Did what ?  In 2 years he has'nt shown what D Allen showed in what .

Edited March 5, 2014 by Nadine
personal shot

[Beauregarde]

Hell no not when you need a C G and FS and CB

Much rather have Byrd and EDS over Decker any day

Yes, you need those positions too but the Colts DO need WR help and Decker is the best available in free agency or the draft.

[Beauregarde]

Name 2 TE's & 2 WR's that could replace those 2 in this draft &/or this FA class

Who can do what those 2 have done for this organization so far in their careers?

Well there is Jimmy Graham and Jeremiah Finley at TE. How about Eric Decker, Hakeem Knicks, Golden Tate, Julian Edelman, Andre Caldwell and Jacoby Jones as WRs. I would take all of those receivers over Hilton. Some, like Andre Caldwell and Golden Tate, don't have his stats because they were lower options on their own team but they all have number one receiver potential. Hilton doesn't. Dwayne hasn't done much but be injured. Hilton is OK but he isn't a Reggie Wayne nor is he a number one receiver. I will give you that his stats are very good for two years. Let these others play with Luck and play as much as Hilton and you will see similar or superior numbers in my opinion. I do think Hilton is closer to these receivers than Allen is to Graham and Finley.

[Beauregarde]

Name 2 TE's & 2 WR's that could replace those 2 in this draft &/or this FA class

Who can do what those 2 have done for this organization so far in their careers?

Well there is Jimmy Graham and Jeremiah Finley at TE. How about Eric Decker, Hakeem Knicks, Golden Tate, Julian Edelman, Andre Caldwell and Jacoby Jones as WRs. I would take all of those receivers over Hilton. Some, like Andre Caldwell and Golden Tate, don't have his stats because they were lower options on their own team but they all have number one receiver potential. Hilton doesn't. Dwayne hasn't done much but be injured. Hilton is OK but he isn't a Reggie Wayne nor is he a number one receiver. I will give you that his stats are very good for two years. Let these others play with Luck and play as much as Hilton and you will see similar or superior numbers in my opinion. I do think Hilton is closer to these receivers than Allen is to Graham and Finley.

[jvan1973]

Well there is Jimmy Graham and Jeremiah Finley at TE. How about Eric Decker, Hakeem Knicks, Golden Tate, Julian Edelman, Andre Caldwell and Jacoby Jones as WRs. I would take all of those receivers over Hilton. Some, like Andre Caldwell and Golden Tate, don't have his stats because they were lower options on their own team but they all have number one receiver potential. Hilton doesn't. Dwayne hasn't done much but be injured. Hilton is OK but he isn't a Reggie Wayne nor is he a number one receiver. I will give you that his stats are very good for two years. Let these others play with Luck and play as much as Hilton and you will see similar or superior numbers in my opinion. I do think Hilton is closer to these receivers than Allen is to Graham and Finley.

Graham was tagged, Finley is terrible.

I would take Hilton over any of the WRs you mentioned

[Dustin]

Graham was tagged, Finley is terrible.

I would take Hilton over any of the WRs you mentioned

The fact that this dude said he'd take Jacoby Jones over TY should indicate he's either trolling or just doesn't know what he is talking about.

[SteelCityColt]

Graham was tagged, Finley is terrible.

I would take Hilton over any of the WRs you mentioned

That's before we even get into the spinal fusion surgery, any Indy fan worth their salt should be an expert on it by now...

[jskinnz]

Well there is Jimmy Graham and Jeremiah Finley at TE. How about Eric Decker, Hakeem Knicks, Golden Tate, Julian Edelman, Andre Caldwell and Jacoby Jones as WRs. I would take all of those receivers over Hilton. Some, like Andre Caldwell and Golden Tate, don't have his stats because they were lower options on their own team but they all have number one receiver potential. Hilton doesn't. Dwayne hasn't done much but be injured. Hilton is OK but he isn't a Reggie Wayne nor is he a number one receiver. I will give you that his stats are very good for two years. Let these others play with Luck and play as much as Hilton and you will see similar or superior numbers in my opinion. I do think Hilton is closer to these receivers than Allen is to Graham and Finley.

The list of players you would take over Hilton deserves a Dear God.,,

Your future as a nfl gm is looking bleak.

[TKnight24]

Well there is Jimmy Graham and Jeremiah Finley at TE. How about Eric Decker, Hakeem Knicks, Golden Tate, Julian Edelman, Andre Caldwell and Jacoby Jones as WRs. I would take all of those receivers over Hilton. Some, like Andre Caldwell and Golden Tate, don't have his stats because they were lower options on their own team but they all have number one receiver potential. Hilton doesn't. Dwayne hasn't done much but be injured. Hilton is OK but he isn't a Reggie Wayne nor is he a number one receiver. I will give you that his stats are very good for two years. Let these others play with Luck and play as much as Hilton and you will see similar or superior numbers in my opinion. I do think Hilton is closer to these receivers than Allen is to Graham and Finley.

*Reads your list of players*

*Reports you as Spam*

[kjyb]

*Reads your list of players*

*Reports you as Spam*

lololol

[Beauregarde]

Graham was tagged, Finley is terrible.

I would take Hilton over any of the WRs you mentioned

You would? Well, we will see. The ones I mentioned would be very highly paid. I also think Finley is a very good TE. I don't know what Dwayne is, I haven't seen him play enough to tell.

[Beauregarde]

*Reads your list of players*

*Reports you as Spam*

I was asked to provide a list, I think I gave a good one. I guess he didn't think so.

[Colts_Fan12]

Yes, you need those positions too but the Colts DO need WR help and Decker is the best available in free agency or the draft.

Missing the point all the positions I just named are more important then WR

[SLILLINGTON10]

Seattle can be beat as any other team in any given week.   The Colts  would beg to differ .  Seattle lost 3 times except for that they can beat most teams in any given week .

 

 

 

 

 

 Clueless 

 

From 2013 - 2016  it is 89% each year .

 

 

 

 

Fleener    Did what ?  In 2 years he has'nt shown what D Allen showed in what .

Allen 2012 stats     Games played 16: Rec-45 Tgts-66 Yds-521 YAC-5.6 TD-3

Fleener 2013 stats Games played 16: Rec-52 Tgs-87 Yds-608 YAC-5.1 TD-4

 

So I stand by my point. Fleener this year posted very similar number to Allen last year.

 

Stats via Yahoo Sports.

[Dark Superman]

Name 2 TE's & 2 WR's that could replace those 2 in this draft &/or this FA class

Who can do what those 2 have done for this organization so far in their careers?

The only eight end that could replace what we have is Jimmy Graham.. But his value too the saints is too high, as it should be. He's one of the best.

But I like our young, talented and very cheap duo in Fleener and Allen.. Just need to keep them healthy so that we can get them on the field together.

I wouldn't trade Hilton for any of the free agent receivers..

His talent, com.tract and chemistry with luck is too high on my list..

[SLILLINGTON10]

No players need to be replaced if the Colts can get some decent offensive linemen in. You don't get better with replacing players without adding players to make them all better. It takes 2 or 3 years for receivers to get to be an impact players in the NFL. TY, Fleener and Allen are all just now coming into the time when they will become better. Why do you think it is a good idea to replace players who are just now becoming good NFL players? Don't make sense to me.

I am not saying cut these guys that they are terrible. i am simply saying i wouldn't break the bank on any of them. i would much rather load a talented roster top to bottom than pay 95% of our cap to a handful of guys. I think we saw enough of that under Polian. I know as a fan base we buy jerseys and get attached to players but in the end it usually comes back to bite us. Look at the Cowboys and Ware this year. He is playing under a huge contract, doesn't want to restructure, and is under playing... he probably should have gotten a much smaller contract or been let go a few years ago.

[luckyblue]

Were not going to win now, in fact I see us having a down year this year. Were going to be losing way too many of our own good players to free agency, we have very few draft choices, and Grigson is not going to sign any really good players in free agency! I think we'll be lucky to be 8 and 8 this coming season, and probably not make the playoffs.

[Dustin]

Were not going to win now, in fact I see us having a down year this year. Were going to be losing way too many of our own good players to free agency, we have very few draft choices, and Grigson is not going to sign any really good players in free agency! I think we'll be lucky to be 8 and 8 this coming season, and probably not make the playoffs.

What good players are we losing to free agency?

[Beauregarde]

Missing the point all the positions I just named are more important then WR

No, they are not. They are all of equal importance. You need to be ready to replace Reggie Wayne, Perhaps he has another year left and perhaps he does not. We were starting practice squad WRs by the end of the season.

[Timo1]

Were not going to win now, in fact I see us having a down year this year. Were going to be losing way too many of our own good players to free agency, we have very few draft choices, and Grigson is not going to sign any really good players in free agency! I think we'll be lucky to be 8 and 8 this coming season, and probably not make the playoffs.

I think 8-8 will easily win the AFC south this year. Colts will be well over .500 again this year also.

[Beauregarde]

Were not going to win now, in fact I see us having a down year this year. Were going to be losing way too many of our own good players to free agency, we have very few draft choices, and Grigson is not going to sign any really good players in free agency! I think we'll be lucky to be 8 and 8 this coming season, and probably not make the playoffs.

The South is so bad that 8-8 may win the division going away. I look for the Colts to step back a bit unless they take Superman's approach and go for the brass ring. With our cap room there is no reason to lose a really good player to free agency. However, they might if they don't make competitive offers.

[SteelCityColt]

You would? Well, we will see. The ones I mentioned would be very highly paid. I also think Finley is a very good TE. I don't know what Dwayne is, I haven't seen him play enough to tell.

He's also a very injured TE.

[SteelCityColt]

No rant, it just makes sense. Get on it before Luck takes a big bite our of the salary cap. That is what Baltimore, Seattle and San Francisco did in the last two years.

 

I can't remember SF, Seattle or Baltimore exactly going crazy in FA before their Superbowl runs though and I'd consider Baltimore's more of a run of good luck than the result of any great plan (though I do rate Newsome as a GM).

Seattle and SF spent a good few years building through the draft and added maybe one or two pieces through FA the likes of Rice, Boldin, Harvin, Manningham none of whom had any major impact. 

 

Now look at who the major impact players were and where they were acquired. Draft well, don't overspend in FA, and don't be afraid to let guys walk if you have to. 

 

So no it really doesn't make sense and it's certainly not the approach the teams you held up as examples took. 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

You would? Well, we will see. The ones I mentioned would be very highly paid. I also think Finley is a very good TE. I don't know what Dwayne is, I haven't seen him play enough to tell.

 

Then you don't watch the colts or you would already know D. Allen is a beast .

[The Old Crow]

It all comes down to right player, right price, right position. If I were the Colts , I would proceed in the direction of where they have been going. I think they 're on the right track. The key for the Colts is upgrading the offensive line, and some defensive positions, while understanding that Luck will be coming off his rookie contract soon , and get big money.

Irsay and Grigson have been wise on studying what New England and Baltimore have been doing, and copying aspects of those models. What you don't want to do is spend stupid money like the Redskins and Cowboys, and grab overpriced and underachieving free agents. You can get good position players who are cap casualties of other teams at bargain basement prices to fill slots. Naturally , the key is the draft. You blow that, you're chances of winning are slim.

I think both Baltimore and New England are in somewhat of a rebuilding mode, but will be back soon. I believe Denver and Cincinnati are on the down slide, but will still be good. This leaves things wide open for the Colts if they clean up some of their holes.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Allen 2012 stats     Games played 16: Rec-45 Tgts-66 Yds-521 YAC-5.6 TD-3

Fleener 2013 stats Games played 16: Rec-52 Tgs-87 Yds-608 YAC-5.1 TD-4

 

So I stand by my point. Fleener this year posted very similar number to Allen last year.

 

Stats via Yahoo Sports.

 

Fleener as a second year player  accomplished what D Allen accomplished as a rookie  you are correct .

 

But as rookies D . Allen proved his self to be much better at everything  compared to Fleener .

 

Fleener needed that extra season to catch up  IMO ..

[pacolts56]

Patience Grasshopper

 

 

 

Master Po: Close your eyes. What do you hear?

Young Caine: I hear the water, I hear the birds.

Po: Do you hear your own heartbeat?

Caine: No.

Po: Do you hear the grasshopper which is at your feet?

Caine: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?

Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?

Caine: Do you answer every question with a question?

Po: Do you question every answer?

 

 

Caine: Just sign a fffin' Center and ILB, damnit!!!!!

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Caine: Do you answer every question with a question?

Po: Do you question every answer?

 

 

Caine: Just sign a fffin' Center and ILB, damnit!!!!!

 

Po :  Patience is bitter , but its fruit is sweet  older grasshopper . ;)      Aristotle

[Beauregarde]

He's also a very injured TE.

So is Allen.

[Beauregarde]

I can't remember SF, Seattle or Baltimore exactly going crazy in FA before their Superbowl runs though and I'd consider Baltimore's more of a run of good luck than the result of any great plan (though I do rate Newsome as a GM).

Seattle and SF spent a good few years building through the draft and added maybe one or two pieces through FA the likes of Rice, Boldin, Harvin, Manningham none of whom had any major impact. 

 

Now look at who the major impact players were and where they were acquired. Draft well, don't overspend in FA, and don't be afraid to let guys walk if you have to. 

 

So no it really doesn't make sense and it's certainly not the approach the teams you held up as examples took. 

The teams you mentioned did not start by drafting their franchise QB before all of the rest of the parts were in place. The Colts did. If you are going to take that approach then you need to spend big time to win now before that franchise QB cashes in for the big money and keeps you from building a great team around him.

[Beauregarde]

Then you don't watch the colts or you would already know D. Allen is a beast .

It doesn't matter if you one watches the Colts when Allen doesn't play because he is injured. Perhaps he can play and perhaps he can't stay on the field. I'll watch him this year (if he plays) to decide that.

[SteelCityColt]

So is Allen.

 

Never said he wasn't but you can't hold up Finley as a replacement when he's had a far more serious injury. 

[SteelCityColt]

The teams you mentioned did not start by drafting their franchise QB before all of the rest of the parts were in place. The Colts did. If you are going to take that approach then you need to spend big time to win now before that franchise QB cashes in for the big money and keeps you from building a great team around him.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.. why does it matter as to when the QB was drafted, are you suggesting that you they have more breathing space before they have to pay out on the QB's contract compared to the Colts? As for the parts that were in place in your mind, where do you think they come from because in the vast majority of cases for those teams it wasn't FA. 

 

As a very quick example look at the numbers in this article..although it only goes up to 2011 but it does give a look at 5 years worth of numbers. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/qs/footballogy/episode-2-building-a-roster.jsp

[HGRekks]

Allen 2012 stats     Games played 16: Rec-45 Tgts-66 Yds-521 YAC-5.6 TD-3

Fleener 2013 stats Games played 16: Rec-52 Tgs-87 Yds-608 YAC-5.1 TD-4

 

So I stand by my point. Fleener this year posted very similar number to Allen last year.

 

Stats via Yahoo Sports.

Stats are similar between one's rookie year and the others second year, as mentioned, but that's entirely stat focused. Allen doesn't have to leave the field - he's a complete TE. He's a reliable target and a solid blocker. Fleener replaced part of Allen's game, but he still left a big hole in the blocking game that Allen provided.

[Beauregarde]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.. why does it matter as to when the QB was drafted, are you suggesting that you they have more breathing space before they have to pay out on the QB's contract compared to the Colts? As for the parts that were in place in your mind, where do you think they come from because in the vast majority of cases for those teams it wasn't FA. 

 

As a very quick example look at the numbers in this article..although it only goes up to 2011 but it does give a look at 5 years worth of numbers. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/qs/footballogy/episode-2-building-a-roster.jsp

Yes, that is what I am saying. Those teams found a whole new way to build a championship team. They may have done it accidently but it worked and others are going to be headed in that direction. The past is littered with QBs who were ruined by being selected as franchise QBs before the pieces were around them. Carr, Couch and a host of others fall in this realm. So, we drafted Andrew Luck and we were just about void of talent behind him. We are very lucky he has not been seriously injured from taking as many hits as he has. I don't think you can wait for the draft to build a Super Bowl team with him. Also, our GM is fond of trading first and second round draft picks. So, I agree with Superman that the time to win with this team is right now and you go all out in free agency and bring in all of  the talent you can to get the job done. Has it been done this way before? No, but as Superman points out, no one who ever tried it had a franchise QB on hand when they did it. If you wait and go with the draft, it will be slow and you will turn around and Luck will be pulling more than $20 million out of the salary cap. Then you are in develop new talent and then release them when they are off their rookie contracts because you can't afford to put a team around him. That is what happened with Peyton and it is what is going to happen with Luck too. Kaepernick is already talking about getting $18 million or more.

[Jaric]

I'm glad Ryan Grigson is our GM and not some of the people that post on this forum.

[SteelCityColt]

Yes, that is what I am saying. Those teams found a whole new way to build a championship team. They may have done it accidently but it worked and others are going to be headed in that direction. The past is littered with QBs who were ruined by being selected as franchise QBs before the pieces were around them. Carr, Couch and a host of others fall in this realm. So, we drafted Andrew Luck and we were just about void of talent behind him. We are very lucky he has not been seriously injured from taking as many hits as he has. I don't think you can wait for the draft to build a Super Bowl team with him. Also, our GM is fond of trading first and second round draft picks. So, I agree with Superman that the time to win with this team is right now and you go all out in free agency and bring in all of  the talent you can to get the job done. Has it been done this way before? No, but as Superman points out, no one who ever tried it had a franchise QB on hand when they did it. If you wait and go with the draft, it will be slow and you will turn around and Luck will be pulling more than $20 million out of the salary cap. Then you are in develop new talent and then release them when they are off their rookie contracts because you can't afford to put a team around him. That is what happened with Peyton and it is what is going to happen with Luck too. Kaepernick is already talking about getting $18 million or more.

 

You make some valid points there though I still don't agree with your whole premise. It would depend firstly on your definition of franchise quarterback, I would not have user Carr & Couch as examples there. Carr was going to an expansion team which was always going to be not the norm regards team building, similar situation with Couch at the Browns with their return to the league. If you call these QBs "franchise" why not Stafford and Vick? Both of whom have a better body of work in the NFL and were on teams that spend big in FA and failed. 

 

You can't really compare the Peyton era here either as with the new Rookie wage scale the financial landscape has shifted somewhat.

 

Let's look at it from the other angle, let's do as you say and go mad in FA, who would you sign and to what contract? You will invariably end up with some large contracts hitting us in 2016 when Luck et al need resigning, but guess what we're cap strapped. What's your plan then? Hope we've won a Lombardi and damm it all to hell and blow it up to start this boom and bust process again?