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Dolphins Gauging Trade Value Of Dion Jordan

krunk

By krunk
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krunk Ring of Honor

krunk

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There's a lot of news and rumors that float around this time of year. It would be awesome if the thread starters would try to make sure they start the thread in the proper section of the forum. Thanks.

 

 

Is this not the section for NFL General News?

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COLTS449 Walk On

COLTS449

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I think Jordan will eventually be an elite pass rusher. He's just not a fit for the Dolphins 4-3 scheme. If he were to get traded to a 3-4 team I believe he would excel in the next year or two. With that said, I don't think the Dolphins trade him just yet. I have no idea why the Dolphins traded up and took him over Ansah, but that wasn't the first bad decision they've made recently. (Ellerbe, Wallace, etc)

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krunk Ring of Honor

krunk

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I liked Jordan coming out of Oregon last year, and I wanted him on the Colts. With that being said I haven't decided yet if I want him in a trade scenario or how it would be constructed, I just posted here for conversation. If we did I wonder if we could do something like swap out Werner sending him back to a 4-3 and send Jordan here putting him back in the 3-4?  I'm not sure what else you put in that trade package though or how it would be constructed.  I'm just thinking out loud......

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ponyboy Practice Squad

ponyboy

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Werner for Jordan even trade?  Werner to back to a 4-3  DE.  Jordan to a 3-4 OLB.

 

That's a scenario that might make sense if it wasn't for the cap hits each team would take for the signing bonuses.  Might be a better situation for each player in their new defensive schemes. 

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Andy Walk On

Andy

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Is it a curse to be the number 3 overall pick?

 

First the player that that pick was used on in 2012 was traded, and now the pick in 2013 could be too.

 

The Dolphins got a huge increase in production from Olivier Vernon, something they did not expect. I still think they need to wait on Jordan. He could be a big stud. 

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SteelCityColt Hall of Famer

SteelCityColt

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Dolphins would take a huuuuuge cap penalty for cutting or trading any of the players rumored to be on the move. I could see one move, not two or three.

 

I still find the Wallace contract staggering now I've really looked at what it entails. He's in effect the 3rd (?) best paid receiver in the league behind Megatron and Fitz and I don't think he's anywhere near worth it. 

 

In terms of hit if he was cut/traded this season can I just my understanding with someone a bit more knowledgeable. In a trade to a team then the new team takes on the contract but the Phins are still on the hook for $8.8 million prorated bonus over the next 4 seasons? On the other hand if they were to cut him because they've guaranteed $27 Million and in reality paid him $3.2 Million last year they would have $23.8 Million in "Dead money" if they were to cut him this year? Balanced against his cap hit this year of $17.2 Millions so they would actually cost themselves cap room to cut him? 

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OffensivelyPC Active Roster

OffensivelyPC

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I'd rather take our chances in the draft.  We've already got one questionable trade with a 1st round pick on the line with Trent.  No reason to potentially have wasted another. This being the deepest draft in years, the only way I'm happy with a trade for Dion is if it's completely lopsided in our favor.

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bavanlan Walk On

bavanlan

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You can get a good look at a T-bone by sticking your head up a bull's butt, but I'd rather take a butcher's word for it.

 

I've always loved the quote, even though you'd have to get your shoulders up in there to get that far back.

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BpG Walk On

BpG

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It even takes the best of pass rushers a couple of years to show everyone what they have.

 

Does it? Aldon Smith didn't have an issue. JJ Watt didn't have an issue. 

 

2 Sacks in your rookie year is not good. 

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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I still find the Wallace contract staggering now I've really looked at what it entails. He's in effect the 3rd (?) best paid receiver in the league behind Megatron and Fitz and I don't think he's anywhere near worth it. 

 

In terms of hit if he was cut/traded this season can I just my understanding with someone a bit more knowledgeable. In a trade to a team then the new team takes on the contract but the Phins are still on the hook for $8.8 million prorated bonus over the next 4 seasons? On the other hand if they were to cut him because they've guaranteed $27 Million and in reality paid him $3.2 Million last year they would have $23.8 Million in "Dead money" if they were to cut him this year? Balanced against his cap hit this year of $17.2 Millions so they would actually cost themselves cap room to cut him? 

 

You've sort of got it. Part of this depends on when they make this decision (which they're not going to make, but hypothetically speaking). If they cut or trade him prior to June 1, then all the dead money goes on the 2014 cap. If they cut or trade him after June 1, then only part of the dead money goes on the 2014 cap, and the rest -- the majority, in this case -- goes on the 2015 cap. (They can also release him prior to June 1 with a post-June 1 designation, which is irrelevant.)

 

If they trade him prior to June 1, then they get hit with an $8.8m cap penalty in 2014. If they trade him after June 1, then they get hit with a $2.2m cap penalty in 2014, and a $6.6m cap penalty in 2015. In either event, assuming he's traded prior to the start of the regular season, his guaranteed salary is paid by his new team, not the Dolphins. If they trade him after the start of the regular season, his salary is prorated, and the Dolphins get a cap hit equal to the number of weeks he was on their roster in the regular season. So if he gets traded prior to Week 2, the Dolphins get hit with ($15m divided by 17 weeks =) $0.88m, in addition to the $2.2m cap penalty in 2014, plus the $6.6m cap penalty in 2015. The reason is that money you've already paid (or are contracted to pay) goes on your cap, but money another team will pay goes on that other team's cap.

 

However, if they release him, then his entire $15m guaranteed base salary in 2014 gets accelerated onto their cap, and that whole penalty goes against the 2014 cap, plus the accelerated bonus, according to the schedule detailed above (pre- or post-June 1, it's either $17.2m or $23.8m). And they still have to pay him the $15m (unless there's offset language in his contract). So he won't be released, under any circumstances other than him voiding the contract through a behavioral clause or something like that, not in 2014. For perspective, our cap penalty for releasing Manning was $10.4m.

 

Setting aside the fact that he shouldn't have gotten $12m/year, the structure of the contract is all wrong. Having such a sharp increase in salary and cap hit from Year 1 to Year 2, especially guaranteed, is illogical. Pain now, or pain later. If you take your pain now, though, you're shielded from having to deal with an underperforming player in later years. 

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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Does it? Aldon Smith didn't have an issue. JJ Watt didn't have an issue. 

 

2 Sacks in your rookie year is not good. 

 

JJ Watt went from 5.5 sacks to 20.5 sacks. Aldon Smith is an exception; for every rookie to have double digit sacks, there are a dozen players who have a big jump from Year 1 to Year 2.

 

But 2 sacks as a rookie, especially a top 5 pick, isn't good.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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IIRC Watt didn't start the whole season and started dominating in the playoffs.

He started every game as a rookie. To be fair, his impact is felt in more than just sacks, and Dion Jordan can't hold a candle to him. Just saying that trench players in particular take time to get going. Some guys longer than others. Jordan is probably a bad pick, was always questionable, and has a long way to go before he can live up to his draft status, but only 2 sacks doesn't tell the whole story, nor is it conclusive.

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