A couple FA updates.

[Superman]

You really think that?    Seriously?

 

Wow,  this is going to be a rare disagreement for us.

 

I don't think there are more than a handful of guys who can do that for the Colts and the rest of them are signed with other teams.    If you think it won't be hard to replace Brown with another guy who can do the same for less money,  I'd sure like to know who those guys are?!    I don't see them out there.

 

Are they free agents?   How old are they?   Are they on the upside or downside of their career?

 

Don't get me wrong, if DB wants too much, then I'm willing to let him go.   But I'm also willing to pay him decent money to keep him and use him as we did last year....  as a 1a to TR's 1.  (or Ballard as the 1 if need be)

 

But I think Brown -- when used properly -- can be a key part to our offense.

 

I don't see him as an easily replaceable guy.....

 

Here's the thing:

 

We have Richardson and Ballard under contract. Both have question marks, and I'm not sure what kind of production we can expect out of either, but both will be given a chance to be a big part of our rushing attack next year. So it's not even really a question of replacing Brown's production; his production will likely be replaced by Richardson or Ballard.

 

Brown gave us decent production playing a reserve role. He can do that for us again, no problem. But he's a FA. That means offers from other teams, and opportunities for him to have a bigger role in someone else's offense. I very much doubt we'd be able to get him on a low rent contract. If we could, I wouldn't be against it. He knows our organization and system, he's a great teammate, he works hard, etc. But I get the feeling he'll get an offer around $3m/year from some other team, with promises of 200+ touches, and I don't want him for that kind of money or that kind of role.

 

Not to mention the trend regarding RBs on veteran contracts, and how seldom they live up to them, or even play them out.

 

But here's the kicker for me. Every year, a dozen backs come out of the draft and collegiate free agency and have really good rookie years. We have young guys on our roster already who can play the reserve / change back role. If we draft or sign a couple other guys to fill out our stable of backs -- Jerick McKinnon, James White, De'Anthony Thomas, and a dozen other guys who were very productive in college and are projected toward the back end of the draft, or as UDFAs -- we'll have plenty of potential to replace Brown on the roster, maybe even someone who can do a better job than he did, particularly as a scat / change back. And those guys would cost significantly less than I expect Brown will.

 

This is FA in the NFL. Sometimes you let good players go, especially when you expect that you can replace his production more efficiently. JMO, I'm perfectly content to let Brown walk.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Bethea should not be resigned, he's a good in the box safety but he can't cover and doesn't have ball awareness. One play that comes to mind is against the Texans when Andre Johnson ran a post route and Bethea had a running start on him by 5 yards, but he still let the ball go over his head and Johnson caught it for a TD. That play was the last straw for me, we need a safety that has range and Bethea doesn't have it.

 

Hahahaha exactly

The play I believe you talking about was in the back of the end zone & had to be a perfect throw & was. Bethea is a good safety I want him back. If the Safeties don't have to make so many tackles in the run game they could play the pass more effectively.

[Gavin]

Well....

 

They may not be facts,  but this is a lot more than opinions of Rotoworld people....

 

There are also opinions of people who cover the team for ESPN.com as well as IndyStar.     So, there's more there than just fantasy people spouting off...

The point of my post was just to remind people that nothing has happened yet(some tend to put the cart before the horse). There certainly is some facts in those statements but nothing definitive in terms of anyone being released

[Dustin]

These are just opinions by RotoWorld people...They dont mean nothing folks. Dont take them as facts. Its humorous that Wells considers Bethea the backbone of the Secondary though

These all have sources. They're not opinions.

[Superman]

These all have sources. They're not opinions.

 

They're the opinions of Mike Wells and Stephen Holder, which are only worth so much, as they don't appear to be based on any information from the Colts organization.

[Dustin]

They're the opinions of Mike Wells and Stephen Holder, which are only worth so much, as they don't appear to be based on any information from the Colts organization.

Ok, then let me re-phrase, "they're not rotoworlds opinions" like Gavin said.

[IndyScribe]

McGlynn but no Satele.

[dudeski]

Perfect.

The guy I've responded to doesn't answer my post to explain his thinking. But he clicks the "like" button to approve of your response, which also doesn't explain the reasoning.

Oh....... Kay................. Whatever..........

he is Donald brown. He is not that great. Why not explain why you think he is so special. Nobody else does. The guy isn't a starter or an ideal 3rd down back

[adamthyst]

I really hope we release Bethea and sign Byrd. Miles and miles of differences at the FS postion. I can't imagine a secondary with Byrd, Landry, Davis, and even Toler. Legion of Boom in Indy?? Dare to dream tho, we will probably just sign mediocre players and pay them 4-8 million a year. Makes perfect sense smh 

 

I don't think Grigs is willing to shell out the big bucks for Byrd. If there's one thing I don't like too it's holdouts for a bigger contract, and I feel he's going to do that.

[Colts_Fan12]

Hmm I wonder how much cap space would likely be eaten up if we signed say Byrd, Brian De La Puente, and Travelle Wharton? It's fun to imagine, but we'd still have to sort out the ILB situation somehow.

Draft one still just a lil later

[MikeD1096]

What we need to do is go after a new saftey to replace Antoine. He's been a great guy for the team but will never be that good again. One of 4 options to do is to sign jarius Byrd. Another is to sign tj ward. Also go with the draft by getting jimmy ward and signing Antoine or Ed reed. Finally we can go with just signing reed or Antoine.

[Superman]

Ok, then let me re-phrase, "they're not rotoworlds opinions" like Gavin said.

 

Fair enough.

 

It's probably no surprise that I don't think that highly of Mike Wells' opinion, especially when he says stuff like 'the Colts need to re-sign Bethea because he's the backbone of the secondary.' What about the way he played this season? 

[Dark Superman]

I'll be happy with releasing Bethea only if we can get someone in here who can be a playmaker..

[BOTT]

McGlynn but no Satele.

Satele isn't a FA

[IndyScribe]

Satele isn't a FA

Yep.  An update on if they were cutting him would be nice though.

[iM COLTSSTRONG]

GIVE BRADSHAW ANOTHER INCENTIVE LACED DEAL!!!!! 

 

Dude was our best runner before he got hurt. he was ready to play in December he said. A whole offseason to get healthy and heal his ankle more. where were he goes, that time is getting a good player.

[GoColts8818]

It seems like the hardest free agent to read in terms of what the Colts are going to do with is Bethea.  You listen to Wells and he thinks they are going to try to keep him.  You listen to Chap and he thinks we are going to move on from him. 

 

Not really all that shocking.  I wouldn't be against the Colts keeping him at the right price and that's what I think you'll the Colts do offer him a deal and he likes it he'll sign it and if he doesn't like it he'll explore other options.  I wouldn't get into a bidding war over him with another team. 

 

As for the others nothing really shocking there, none of them really stuck out as oh my gosh we have to keep this guy type of players and frankly Bradshaw's fate was sealed the day we made the trade for Richardson.  I think Grigson honestly looked at that as Richardson could replace Ballard for this year and then would take Bradshaw's spot moving forward. 

 

I am more interested in hearing what the Colts are thinking in terms of Brown, AV, and McAfee at this point as Davis sounds like they are going to keep at any cost including a franchise tag if needed.  Everyone else you can either replace cheap or keep them cheap if you truly want too. .

[NewColtsFan]

Here's the thing:

 

We have Richardson and Ballard under contract. Both have question marks, and I'm not sure what kind of production we can expect out of either, but both will be given a chance to be a big part of our rushing attack next year. So it's not even really a question of replacing Brown's production; his production will likely be replaced by Richardson or Ballard.

 

Brown gave us decent production playing a reserve role. He can do that for us again, no problem. But he's a FA. That means offers from other teams, and opportunities for him to have a bigger role in someone else's offense. I very much doubt we'd be able to get him on a low rent contract. If we could, I wouldn't be against it. He knows our organization and system, he's a great teammate, he works hard, etc. But I get the feeling he'll get an offer around $3m/year from some other team, with promises of 200+ touches, and I don't want him for that kind of money or that kind of role.

 

Not to mention the trend regarding RBs on veteran contracts, and how seldom they live up to them, or even play them out.

 

But here's the kicker for me. Every year, a dozen backs come out of the draft and collegiate free agency and have really good rookie years. We have young guys on our roster already who can play the reserve / change back role. If we draft or sign a couple other guys to fill out our stable of backs -- Jerick McKinnon, James White, De'Anthony Thomas, and a dozen other guys who were very productive in college and are projected toward the back end of the draft, or as UDFAs -- we'll have plenty of potential to replace Brown on the roster, maybe even someone who can do a better job than he did, particularly as a scat / change back. And those guys would cost significantly less than I expect Brown will.

 

This is FA in the NFL. Sometimes you let good players go, especially when you expect that you can replace his production more efficiently. JMO, I'm perfectly content to let Brown walk.

 

You didn't say so in so many words,  but judging from your comments,  you see Brown as perhaps only little more than Just Another Guy (JAG)...  a guy that can be replaced by some lowly draft pick, or even an UDFA.

 

Holy cow.    There was nothing about Brown's performance this past year that remotely hinted of being JAG.   Or someone who can be replaced by a lower level draft pick or especially an UDFA.

 

I appreciate that we may not be able to keep him.   And I don't want Brown at any cost.    I'd have a limit and go from there.   But I'd certainly make a good faith effort to try and retain him and point out that we know how to use him best.  

 

Now, if he wants to go someplace to be The Man and be paid as if he is The Man,  then bye-bye, and good luck to him.   But if he's willing to return as a 1a and be paid good, but not great money on a 2-year deal...   then I'd be fine bringing him back.

[NewColtsFan]

he is Donald brown. He is not that great. Why not explain why you think he is so special. Nobody else does. The guy isn't a starter or an ideal 3rd down back

 

I have no idea why you think nobody else here thinks Brown is so special.   I've probably written more posts explaining to Colts fans why Brown is not an ideal candidate to be the lead back getting the majority of touches.    There were countless threads with Colts fan screaming for Brown to be the starter and not the back-up.

 

I think Brown is the absolute ideal 3rd down back.   He's great on all the change of pace plays...  he's great on the draws, delays and screens...   he can pass block...  he can catch out of the back-field....   he can run between the tackles...   he's quick, fast, and elusive...

 

The thing that prevents him from being the lead guy is he can't seem to stay healthy enough to last a season as the lead dog.  He either breaks down or wears down....   but used selectively,  he can give a great season as he did last year.

 

To be clear, as I said to Superman.....   I do NOT want Brown back as the lead,  nor do I want to spend huge to keep him...  but I'm willing to give him good (but not great) money to have him back as a 1a.

 

If he wants to go elsewhere for more money or playing time,  I'm fine with letting him go.   But I want to make a good faith effort to keep him.      If we can -- great.    If we can't -- oh well, and we'll move on...

 

Hope that clarifies...

[Superman]

You didn't say so in so many words,  but judging from your comments,  you see Brown as perhaps only little more than Just Another Guy (JAG)...  a guy that can be replaced by some lowly draft pick, or even an UDFA.

 

Holy cow.    There was nothing about Brown's performance this past year that remotely hinted of being JAG.   Or someone who can be replaced by a lower level draft pick or especially an UDFA.

 

I appreciate that we may not be able to keep him.   And I don't want Brown at any cost.    I'd have a limit and go from there.   But I'd certainly make a good faith effort to try and retain him and point out that we know how to use him best.  

 

Now, if he wants to go someplace to be The Man and be paid as if he is The Man,  then bye-bye, and good luck to him.   But if he's willing to return as a 1a and be paid good, but not great money on a 2-year deal...   then I'd be fine bringing him back.

 

I don't think we'd bring him back as a 1a, not with Ballard and Richardson still on the roster. His best role is as a change back, a #2 at best, and I think we can find a guy who fits that role for us better, at cheaper cost. 

 

Don't mean to reduce him to "just a guy" status, although I think it's pretty much what he is. Saying I think he can be readily replaced is pretty much the same thing. He's a well-rounded back and a professional, and I appreciate that about him. His yards per touch were outstanding this year in his auxiliary role (though they suffered when he was moved to a more featured role). 

 

Combine that with him being a RB going into his 6th year in the league, and acknowledging what happens to backs -- especially those that aren't special on the field -- as they get older, I just see this as the natural time to move on. I wasn't in favor of releasing him before this season, even when he was projected to be the #3 back behind Ballard and Bradshaw (and when everyone was getting excited about Kerwynn Williams). 

 

Let me ask you this: What kind of contract do you think we should offer Brown to stay?

[GoColts00]

I think we should bring Bradshaw on an incentives contract. If he gets hurt again, he doesn't get paid what he could if he's playing. 

When he played, he did very well for us. 

 

Brown doesn't deserve a big pay day from us, and that's what he'll be looking for. Keep Herron and Choice. 

 

I think we should after another safety in FA. I like Bethea a lot in run coverage, but he's lost more than a step in pass Coverage. 

 

Good bye Angerer. Not sad about that. 

 

I think McGlynn should be kept but only as backup Center. Or maybe even start if Holmes doesn't pan out. All I know is Satele should be parking cars in a garage anywhere except Indy. 

 

i agree with you on almost everything. Ahmad Bradshaw is good and perhaps a Vet minimum 1 year contract with incentives would be good. If he gets hurt again then he is Waived/Injury without another penny going to him.

 

Donald Brown needs to find somewhere else.

 

I have thought about Bethea and i originally thought we should let him go. However, he is the best Safety we have against the Run. He is Not worth $5 Million a year, but Bethea is better than Landry! IF the Colts would pick up Jairus Byrd as a FS in Coverage and have Bethea at SS for the Run our defense would benefit.

 

Angerer needs to go.

 

I couldn't stand watching McGlynn at OG, but he Did play well at C. I agree with you that McGlynn should be brought back, BUT ONLY as a C. Nothing Else!!!

[dudeski]

I have no idea why you think nobody else here thinks Brown is so special. I've probably written more posts explaining to Colts fans why Brown is not an ideal candidate to be the lead back getting the majority of touches. There were countless threads with Colts fan screaming for Brown to be the starter and not the back-up.

I think Brown is the absolute ideal 3rd down back. He's great on all the change of pace plays... he's great on the draws, delays and screens... he can pass block... he can catch out of the back-field.... he can run between the tackles... he's quick, fast, and elusive...

The thing that prevents him from being the lead guy is he can't seem to stay healthy enough to last a season as the lead dog. He either breaks down or wears down.... but used selectively, he can give a great season as he did last year.

To be clear, as I said to Superman..... I do NOT want Brown back as the lead, nor do I want to spend huge to keep him... but I'm willing to give him good (but not great) money to have him back as a 1a.

If he wants to go elsewhere for more money or playing time, I'm fine with letting him go. But I want to make a good faith effort to keep him. If we can -- great. If we can't -- oh well, and we'll move on...

Hope that clarifies...

you clearly think brown is way better than he is

He sucks at pass blocking and his receiving skills are average at best

The dude is just another guy. Nothing more

[NewColtsFan]

you clearly think brown is way better than he is

He sucks at pass blocking and his receiving skills are average at best

The dude is just another guy. Nothing more

 

Well...

 

From where I sit, you clearly think Brown is way worse than he is....

 

But,  we're not going to change each others mind...   so, we're just going to have to agree to disagree and leave it at that...

[SOMDColtsfan]

Bethea and Brown, I dont get it.

Te'o wouldn't have been a bad draft pick last yr

what's not "to get" about Brown? He proved to be the best RB the Colts had in 2013 

[dudeski]

Well...

From where I sit, you clearly think Brown is way worse than he is....

But, we're not going to change each others mind... so, we're just going to have to agree to disagree and leave it at that...

are you telling me what to do? That's not cool

[NewColtsFan]

are you telling me what to do? That's not cool

 

Huh?!?    What?!?

 

Where did I tell you what to do?     Please hi-lite that sentence.  

 

I did no such thing.   All I said is we are not going to change the other person's mind and so we should just agree to disagree.

 

You are free to do whatever you want....!

[NewColtsFan]

 

 

Let me ask you this: What kind of contract do you think we should offer Brown to stay?

 

I think I'd offer him 2 years, and between 4 and 5 million.

 

I don't think I'd go longer than 2 years because we'll need the cap space for the contracts of the 2012 draft class.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Why does it seem like most think Donald Brown needs to be "penny pinched" on his salary? The dude proved everybody wrong this year, which I think most just don't want to admit, and was clearly the best RB and at times "weapon" the Colts had not named Luck or Hylton. Ballard the answer? No way, as great as "the Edge"  was he was never the same RB after his knee injury and a healthy Ballard was no where near as talented. Brown earned this chance to be paid and remain a Colt. Get over it 

[dudeski]

Huh?!? What?!?

Where did I tell you what to do? Please hi-lite that sentence.

I did no such thing. All I said is we are not going to change the other person's mind and so we should just agree to disagree.

You are free to do whatever you want....!

it was a joke

[dudeski]

Why does it seem like most think Donald Brown needs to be "penny pinched" on his salary? The dude proved everybody wrong this year, which I think most just don't want to admit, and was clearly the best RB and at times "weapon" the Colts had not named Luck or Hylton. Ballard the answer? No way, as great as "the Edge" was he was never the same RB after his knee injury and a healthy Ballard was no where near as talented. Brown earned this chance to be paid and remain a Colt. Get over it

no he didnt

[jskinnz]

Because he's out for the season after game 4 of a 16 game season?  He's just too injury prone.  

 

If he wasn't injury prone we would have signed him to a 4 year contract.

If he wan't injury prone, the Giants would have never released him.

[jskinnz]

Why does it seem like most think Donald Brown needs to be "penny pinched" on his salary? The dude proved everybody wrong this year, which I think most just don't want to admit, and was clearly the best RB and at times "weapon" the Colts had not named Luck or Hylton. Ballard the answer? No way, as great as "the Edge"  was he was never the same RB after his knee injury and a healthy Ballard was no where near as talented. Brown earned this chance to be paid and remain a Colt. Get over it

because running backs are not worth the investment of significant $$ in their second contracts, especially mid level talents like Brown. Those guys sign team-friendly deals.

It is really not that hard to figure.

So get over it.

[Smonroe]

because running backs are not worth the investment of significant $$ in their second contracts, especially mid level talents like Brown. Those guys sign team-friendly deals.It is really not that hard to figure.So get over it.

Agree. Very rarely does a RB deserve a big second contract in today's NFL.

Brown will test the market and some team will probably offer him more than we would.

[jameszeigler834]

Bethea  is who im talking about Angerer doesn't fit.

[BOTT]

Why does it seem like most think Donald Brown needs to be "penny pinched" on his salary? The dude proved everybody wrong this year, which I think most just don't want to admit, and was clearly the best RB and at times "weapon" the Colts had not named Luck or Hylton. Ballard the answer? No way, as great as "the Edge"  was he was never the same RB after his knee injury and a healthy Ballard was no where near as talented. Brown earned this chance to be paid and remain a Colt. Get over it

Edge hurt he knee 13 years ago, medical advancements have been made....it's not uncommon at all for a player to return to form after a ACL tear.

[SOMDColtsfan]

no he didnt

don`t know what football games you watched this year

[SOMDColtsfan]

Edge hurt he knee 13 years ago, medical advancements have been made....it's not uncommon at all for a player to return to form after a ACL tear.

what form? Ballard couldn't run a 40 yard dash without tripping. Was already a 4.6 speed running back, he ain't running away from nobody like Brown can

[SOMDColtsfan]

because running backs are not worth the investment of significant $$ in their second contracts, especially mid level talents like Brown. Those guys sign team-friendly deals.

It is really not that hard to figure.

So get over it.

a first round pick for RB Trent isn't a significant investment? Then got out performed by this forums whipping boy? Nothing here on this end to get over

[BOTT]

what form? Ballard couldn't run a 40 yard dash without tripping. Was already a 4.6 speed running back, he ain't running away from nobody like Brown can

We all know Ballard isn't a burner....so what? Doesn't mean he isn't a good back. If you don't like the guy, just say you don't like the guy.

[Dustin]

Why does it seem like most think Donald Brown needs to be "penny pinched" on his salary? The dude proved everybody wrong this year, which I think most just don't want to admit, and was clearly the best RB and at times "weapon" the Colts had not named Luck or Hylton. Ballard the answer? No way, as great as "the Edge"  was he was never the same RB after his knee injury and a healthy Ballard was no where near as talented. Brown earned this chance to be paid and remain a Colt. Get over it 

 

He's a RB. Probably the least important position on either side of the ball. And we already have 2 RBs who play for cheaper.