Luck Just Makes Me Feel Confident

[Dark Superman]

Last year was Luck's rookie season, had a brand new defensive scheme, a horrible offensive line, a new coaching system, an overhauled roster and not to mention trying to gain chemistry in all facets of the game with all of the new changes to the team last year. I believe the young lad did quite well in his first season at the helm.

Exactly my point..

[Dark Superman]

I really have a hard time comprehending how anyone could have possibly watched Peyton all those years and make such ridiculous comments.  

I love Peyton. But I don't think he wins the Colts 11 games like Luck did.

People know Peyton, Luck is a new face that many teams couldn't prepare for. He's a rare talent. Andrew is a better overall quarterback than Manning.. He bigger,stronger,faster and I think better throwing the ball on the run.

Luck gave the Colts a fresh start.

[jmac_48]

In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, please forgive us sinners for not appreciating the blessings of the past 15 years, AMEN

 

Peyton Manning's resume speaks for itself, both the good and the bad.  And as far as the Colts go it's a closed book!

IMHO he will be a first ballot HOF'er

 

Andrew Luck's resume is barely past the cover page, give him time.

Did he have a terrific rookie season, you betcha!

 

Is it time to compare the two, nope, not by a long shot...  3-5 years maybe.

 

Do I have confidence in what is going on in Indy NOW, yes I do, and Mr. Luck is one of the reasons why.

 

Was the end of the Manning era Sad and somewhat unfulfilled, yes it was, Done Deal.

Time to move on!

[House]

Ben has looked that way his whole career. It remains to be seen if Luck can play smarter ball. I think he can but time will tell.

Not at all. Ben now isn't the same Ben that entered the league. He barely passed his first few years, and then has his highest passing attempts in the years Arians was HC. Bruce's offensive scheme makes/asks a QB to hold onto the ball a long long time. It's effective, but not great with a rookie QB and a poor OLine.

Andrews game in college wasn't about holding onto the ball forever. So I guess we will see this year under a new OC how he looks.

[Deathiltis]

He also was second in the league in TOs and had a horrible passing percentage. It was a great TEAM effort to get those 11 wins.

He had a low pass percentage because of the offense he was running. Enjoy bagging on Andrew now, there's not going to be much to bash on soon enough.

[Mameluc]

Where is last years line much better?

well id take Castonzo over CJ, Reitz over Devan ...i'd take saturday, then considering Mcglyn keeps getting a job while pollack has always been a backup i guess id take Mcglyn. Justice, while aint no start, he was perfectly decent while the last years of diem he was obviously on the decline

[BOTT]

well id take Castonzo over CJ, Reitz over Devan ...i'd take saturday, then considering Mcglyn keeps getting a job while pollack has always been a backup i guess id take Mcglyn. Justice, while aint no start, he was perfectly decent while the last years of diem he was obviously on the decline

It's like being forced to choose what bowl of poop to eat imo

[Gramz]

It's like being forced to choose what bowl of poop to eat imo

Ewww  I read this as I was starting to eat a bowl of choc. ice-cream    Thanks.

[presto123]

Ewww  I read this as I was starting to eat a bowl of choc. ice-cream    Thanks.

 Divine synchronicity. LOL

[amfootball]

Not at all. Ben now isn't the same Ben that entered the league. He barely passed his first few years, and then has his highest passing attempts in the years Arians was HC. Bruce's offensive scheme makes/asks a QB to hold onto the ball a long long time. It's effective, but not great with a rookie QB and a poor OLine.

Andrews game in college wasn't about holding onto the ball forever. So I guess we will see this year under a new OC how he looks.

Ben might have more of a run game early on but his passing style has never changed. He holds the ball and waits for things to either develop or break down. He is a classic school yard QB.

 

While Arians style may lend itself to holding the ball, Luck also stared down Reggie an awful lot and did not get through his progressions quick enough. Things may change with the new OC in terms of scheme but there is a world of difference between receivers getting open in college vs. the pros. Just not as much separation and anticpation is how you beat the D more often than not. I am also not sure Luck has the sixth sense when it comes to sensing pressure hence all the fumbles.

 

My point was not whether or not Luck will do better in his second year as I think he will but these comparisons to Peyton are ridiculous. Luck was the second worst passer in the league last year statstically. Peyton was the best and would have won his 5th league MVP if not for a historic season by AP and Denver's team was no better than Indy's team at the start of the season.

[amfootball]

No NFL quarterback has led his team to the lead in the 4th quarter of a playoff game and then had that lead surrendered by the defense or special teams (not due to a turnover) more times than Peyton Manning.

Let's be fair here. Peyton is also second only to Brett Favre in terms of INTs and pick sixes in the playoffs. Many of the games that were close would not have been had he had less TOs. This past season's playoff game is a perfect example. While he got his team the lead in the fourth, his two TOs (one a pick six the other a fumble that led to a Ravens TD) prior yielded 14 points to the Ravens which had they not happened, the game is blowout. His special teams gave him 14 points to boot.

[House]

Ben might have more of a run game early on but his passing style has never changed. He holds the ball and waits for things to either develop or break down. He is a classic school yard QB.

While Arians style may lend itself to holding the ball, Luck also stared down Reggie an awful lot and did not get through his progressions quick enough. Things may change with the new OC in terms of scheme but there is a world of difference between receivers getting open in college vs. the pros. Just not as much separation and anticpation is how you beat the D more often than not. I am also not sure Luck has the sixth sense when it comes to sensing pressure hence all the fumbles.

My point was not whether or not Luck will do better in his second year as I think he will but these comparisons to Peyton are ridiculous. Luck was the second worst passer in the league last year statstically. Peyton was the best and would have won his 5th league MVP if not for a historic season by AP and Denver's team was no better than Indy's team at the start of the season.

Your blending two arguments. I'm not saying he's perfect as a passer, but holding onto the ball is a by product of Arians.

And other than completion % what context was he the second worst passer? He didn't lead in INTs, in fact he is right in the middle of very good QBs who also had sloppy years. He's right at the average for TD's. 7th in passing yards. And again only at the average for fumbles lost. None of which lead him to being the second worst passer.

Unless your strictly going off passing %, because not only does that tell you a tiny bit of the whole story, but that's the only category he's closest to the bottom at. However, taking into account the fact that over 600 attempts is practically unheard of for a rookie, and that stat continues to be overblown.

So what constitues him being the second worst passer last year to you?

[amfootball]

Your blending two arguments. I'm not saying he's perfect as a passer, but holding onto the ball is a by product of Arians.

And other than completion % what context was he the second worst passer? He didn't lead in INTs, in fact he is right in the middle of very good QBs who also had sloppy years. He's right at the average for TD's. 7th in passing yards. And again only at the average for fumbles lost. None of which lead him to being the second worst passer.

Unless your strictly going off passing %, because not only does that tell you a tiny bit of the whole story, but that's the only category he's closest to the bottom at. However, taking into account the fact that over 600 attempts is practically unheard of for a rookie, and that stat continues to be overblown.

So what constitues him being the second worst passer last year to you?

I know many of you like to lay much of the blame at the feet of Arians but I just don't see it that way. There were plenty of shorter routes that Luck could have checked down to but did not do time and time again. He stared down Reggie an awful which I don't blame him in one way but it is not like every pass play called for four go routes.

 

In terms if his passing, 56 percent is lousy no matter which way you slice it and 18 picks was tied with Sanchez for the worst in the league. I put a lot of stock in those two categories because a QBs ability to complete passes and not turn the ball are key to the position. I realize he was a rookie and asked to do an awful lot but within that he made an awful lot of mistakes too. This was my whole point with the Manning discussion which was just ridiculous IMO.

 

I am anxious to see him perform for this new OC and if some of his tendencies are cleaned up. Like I said, I don't think he has a keen sense for pressure around him which would be a concern as the 10 fumbles that were actually lost (he fumbled more than that but the Colts recovered) were right up there with Sanchez.

 

I also think he is predisposed to wanting to go long as evidenced by his decision to throw that pass to Reggie against the Giants off his back foot. He does look for the home run IMO and that gets him into trouble at times.

[Gramz]

I know many of you like to lay much of the blame at the feet of Arians.

Quite the opposite, for me, at least.   I give him "credit" for the majority of the Wins last year.  He made some gutsy calls, that paid off.

[House]

I know many of you like to lay much of the blame at the feet of Arians but I just don't see it that way. There were plenty of shorter routes that Luck could have checked down to but did not do time and time again. He stared down Reggie an awful which I don't blame him in one way but it is not like every pass play called for four go routes.

In terms if his passing, 56 percent is lousy no matter which way you slice it and 18 picks was tied with Sanchez for the worst in the league. I put a lot of stock in those two categories because a QBs ability to complete passes and not turn the ball are key to the position. I realize he was a rookie and asked to do an awful lot but within that he made an awful lot of mistakes too. This was my whole point with the Manning discussion which was just ridiculous IMO.

I am anxious to see him perform for this new OC and if some of his tendencies are cleaned up. Like I said, I don't think he has a keen sense for pressure around him which would be a concern as the 10 fumbles that were actually lost (he fumbled more than that but the Colts recovered) were right up there with Sanchez.

I also think he is predisposed to wanting to go long as evidenced by his decision to throw that pass to Reggie against the Giants off his back foot. He does look for the home run IMO and that gets him into trouble at times.

Drew Brees, and Tony Romo led the league in INTs at 19. He also only lost 5 fumbles. Which wasn't the most, and was right on the average for QBs last year. His completion % was 54.1 as well so I'm not sure where your getting your statistics from.

It's not blaming Arians, as I've said before his Offensive scheme is effective, IF you have a capable OLine. Which we do not. So he was asked to wait and wait and wait for plays to develop, and more times then not had to either just chuck it, or take off under pressure. Not exactly a good formula for a high completion %. Though again completion % is overrated.

Anyway you look at it, it's very difficult to make the argument he was the 2nd worst passer.

[House]

Quite the opposite, for me, at least. I give him "credit" for the majority of the Wins last year. He made some gutsy calls, that paid off.

Absolutey it did. His system is high octane, and it worked. But it's also a big reason Andrew has such bipolar statlines lol.

[amfootball]

Drew Brees, and Tony Romo led the league in INTs at 19. He also only lost 5 fumbles. Which wasn't the most, and was right on the average for QBs last year. His completion % was 54.1 as well so I'm not sure where your getting your statistics from.

It's not blaming Arians, as I've said before his Offensive scheme is effective, IF you have a capable OLine. Which we do not. So he was asked to wait and wait and wait for plays to develop, and more times then not had to either just chuck it, or take off under pressure. Not exactly a good formula for a high completion %. Though again completion % is overrated.

Anyway you look at it, it's very difficult to make the argument he was the 2nd worst passer.

I knew there was other QBs with 19 just thought it was Sanchez for obvious reasons. lol. Still 18 is a whopping number. The fumbles were 10 fumbled, 5 lost. Sorry for the confusion. That is not very good ball security and the Colts were fortunate to have jumped on so many.

 

The 54 percent is what it is. Lots of factors go into it but I put a lot of stock into it because like I said a Qbs ability to complete passes is paramount in a passing league.

[amfootball]

Absolutey it did. His system is high octane, and it worked. But it's also a big reason Andrew has such bipolar statlines lol.

I dunno. Ben won a SB with Arians. It is more boom then bust, more reward than risk. Perhaps it was not the best system for Luck but I am always of the mindset that if something is not broke, don't try to fix it. It would have been interesting to see him perform in year two under Arians as I think the two had a great chemistry together and Luck would have matured in his system and made less mistakes and hopefully better decisions perhaps.

[Susie Q]

Absolutey it did. His system is high octane, and it worked. But it's also a big reason Andrew has such bipolar statlines lol.

Well I guess the bottom line is do you want the wins or the stats.

[Dustin]

Well I guess the bottom line is do you want the wins or the stats.

 

I personally want the QB not to be hit 75 times. Otherwise he turns into a walking injury like Ben Roethlisberger has from years of playing under Arians.

[House]

I knew there was other QBs with 19 just thought it was Sanchez for obvious reasons. lol. Still 18 is a whopping number. The fumbles were 10 fumbled, 5 lost. Sorry for the confusion. That is not very good ball security and the Colts were fortunate to have jumped on so many.

The 54 percent is what it is. Lots of factors go into it but I put a lot of stock into it because like I said a Qbs ability to complete passes is paramount in a passing league.

Still not being sold that he was even close to the second worst passer lol. He didn't even have the second worse completion % believe it or not .

I'm certainly not trying to sugar coat any of his numbers, because he does need to improve. But the system he played it has to be taken into account IMO. If he throws 200 less times his stats look different. If the team ran 600+ times his stats look different.

[House]

I dunno. Ben won a SB with Arians. It is more boom then bust, more reward than risk. Perhaps it was not the best system for Luck but I am always of the mindset that if something is not broke, don't try to fix it. It would have been interesting to see him perform in year two under Arians as I think the two had a great chemistry together and Luck would have matured in his system and made less mistakes and hopefully better decisions perhaps.

Luck wasn't the problem, it was the protection that made the system more spotty. He would have flourished as the line improved and he got more experience IMO. Not to say he made no mistakes last year, but as a rookie that's expected. It was however exacerbated by the OLine.

[House]

Well I guess the bottom line is do you want the wins or the stats.

No reason he can't have both

[BOTT]

I personally want the QB not to be hit 75 times. Otherwise he turns into a walking injury like Ben Roethlisberger has from years of playing under Arians.

Which is why Arians was fired in Pittsburgh. I can't think of a top level OC that has been fired from a successful team....I think that say something about BA. I did love him as HC though.

[Stephen]

Arians teaches qbs how to extend play. Now luck can occassionally mix that with his 70 percent accuracy from stanford system.

[FanFromtheWasteland]

Well I guess the bottom line is do you want the wins or the stats.

I vote wins

[LockeDown]

Arians teaches qbs how to extend play. Now luck can occassionally mix that with his 70 percent accuracy from stanford system.

 

I like that.  What Luck learned last year was similar to crossing a busy intersection during rush hour.  He has developed his spider sense because of last year.

[Superman]

Let's be fair here. Peyton is also second only to Brett Favre in terms of INTs and pick sixes in the playoffs. Many of the games that were close would not have been had he had less TOs. This past season's playoff game is a perfect example. While he got his team the lead in the fourth, his two TOs (one a pick six the other a fumble that led to a Ravens TD) prior yielded 14 points to the Ravens which had they not happened, the game is blowout. His special teams gave him 14 points to boot.

Yes, let's be fair. How many turnovers would he have had if the defense held on to the lead in the fourth quarter?

That's my exact point.

[Dustin]

Yes, let's be fair. How many turnovers would he have had if the defense held on to the lead in the fourth quarter?

That's my exact point.

The hilarious thing about her post is that Brady has more playoff interceptions than Manning does. Like, she didn't even bother to look it up. Lol

[Superman]

I know many of you like to lay much of the blame at the feet of Arians but I just don't see it that way. There were plenty of shorter routes that Luck could have checked down to but did not do time and time again. He stared down Reggie an awful which I don't blame him in one way but it is not like every pass play called for four go routes.

In terms if his passing, 56 percent is lousy no matter which way you slice it and 18 picks was tied with Sanchez for the worst in the league. I put a lot of stock in those two categories because a QBs ability to complete passes and not turn the ball are key to the position. I realize he was a rookie and asked to do an awful lot but within that he made an awful lot of mistakes too. This was my whole point with the Manning discussion which was just ridiculous IMO.

I am anxious to see him perform for this new OC and if some of his tendencies are cleaned up. Like I said, I don't think he has a keen sense for pressure around him which would be a concern as the 10 fumbles that were actually lost (he fumbled more than that but the Colts recovered) were right up there with Sanchez.

I also think he is predisposed to wanting to go long as evidenced by his decision to throw that pass to Reggie against the Giants off his back foot. He does look for the home run IMO and that gets him into trouble at times.

Luck played in a West Coast offense in college that encouraged checkdowns and finding the underneath receivers. He isn't predisposed to throwing deep. He was encouraged to do so by virtue of the offense he was given.

And while there are always short options in Arians' passing system, they are mostly slow developing crossing patterns that don't do much to take the pressure off of the offensive line. They aren't quick hitting hot routes that encourage the passer to get rid of the ball quickly. It's more like "and if no one is open deep, your 4th read is this drag route that doesn't produce any separation." Few screens, basically none to the backs, nothing in the flats... It's not an offense that promotes the short passing game. And Arians likes it that way.

He did a fantastic job as head coach, and I think he has a lot of positive attributes as a coach and leader. His players all love him. But his passing concepts are not conducive to an efficient passing attack. And that's made worse when the offensive line sucks and the receivers are inexperienced and dropping a lot of passes. No wonder Luck stares Reggie down.

[Fx Stryker]

I have never thought I would have seen the day. A PATRIOT FAN IS DEFENDING PEYTON TO COLTS FANS. It is obvious some people really need to sit down and think about that. Our most bitter rival supports your HoF QB more than you...Really think about that, and if you see no problem just read it again until you see the problem.

[amfootball]

Yes, let's be fair. How many turnovers would he have had if the defense held on to the lead in the fourth quarter?

That's my exact point.

His first TO came in the first quarter right after the Broncos had returned the punt for a TD. It was a pick six and completely changed momentum in the game back to the Ravens. His fumble I believe was in the third quarter or early into the fourth and gave the Ravens a short field which they turned into a TD. Then of course he had multiple chances to win it in OT and threw the fatal pick.

 

This is the thing with Manning, while I do agree that he gets WAY too much blame for the 11 playoff losses, he has often not played like the best player on the field either. Every time he steps on the field he is the best player, he has been the highest paid player in the NFL for most of his career, but he has not been that guy often enough to help his team win more in the post-season. The guys at CHFF can wax poetic all they want about how his team let him down and how his stats were better than average but the greats understand that more is required. I am not saying Manning didn't necessarily do enough but the playoffs require more than enough. 

 

I also think what hurts Manning and his perception of being such a failure in the playoffs is because he has been so magnificient in the regular season. He has the four league MVPs, so many records, and always appears to be in such control of everything that you expect him to win. So his shortcomings are more glaring which is probably unfair but as I have always said, legendary status is made the post-season so that is the judging stick.

 

I think what is worse is that when his teams win like last season in Denver - it was all him and his Indy offense but when they lose it is everyone else. Can't have it both ways.

[amfootball]

Luck played in a West Coast offense in college that encouraged checkdowns and finding the underneath receivers. He isn't predisposed to throwing deep. He was encouraged to do so by virtue of the offense he was given.

And while there are always short options in Arians' passing system, they are mostly slow developing crossing patterns that don't do much to take the pressure off of the offensive line. They aren't quick hitting hot routes that encourage the passer to get rid of the ball quickly. It's more like "and if no one is open deep, your 4th read is this drag route that doesn't produce any separation." Few screens, basically none to the backs, nothing in the flats... It's not an offense that promotes the short passing game. And Arians likes it that way.

He did a fantastic job as head coach, and I think he has a lot of positive attributes as a coach and leader. His players all love him. But his passing concepts are not conducive to an efficient passing attack. And that's made worse when the offensive line sucks and the receivers are inexperienced and dropping a lot of passes. No wonder Luck stares Reggie down.

I know what you are saying and I don't disagree. I am a big fan of Arians and can understand why Big Ben was so irate when he left. I think Arians would have modified things this year to better suit Luck and the Oline. He started to do that at the end of last season as far as I could tell anyways. Not sure if you agree. When I watched the playoff game without him, Luck and the O looked completely lost. I think what is often overlooked with him is his play calling which I think is pretty good.

 

I am anxious to see how Luck does with this new OC. I really think he is a stud and it was not hyperbole when he was compared to Elway coming out of college. His intangibles are impressive. Hopefully the team around him will be good enough to get back to the post-season.

[The Old Crow]

You guys have been very fortunate to have Manning and Luck. You almost had Elway also had the owner at the time not panicked. I really like Luck as a quarterback. I think the biggest factor is the number of comebacks he made as a rookie quarterback. I was very impressed with him even in the game I saw in Baltimore. The Colts defense looks much improved during pre-season. Could be a good season for Indy.

[chrisfarley]

You guys have been very fortunate to have Manning and Luck. You almost had Elway also had the owner at the time not panicked. I really like Luck as a quarterback. I think the biggest factor is the number of comebacks he made as a rookie quarterback. I was very impressed with him even in the game I saw in Baltimore. The Colts defense looks much improved during pre-season. Could be a good season for Indy.

"You Guys"

[The Old Crow]

Spent too much time in Jersey !

[-JJ-]

At least he didn't say yutes.

[Superman]

His first TO came in the first quarter right after the Broncos had returned the punt for a TD. It was a pick six and completely changed momentum in the game back to the Ravens. His fumble I believe was in the third quarter or early into the fourth and gave the Ravens a short field which they turned into a TD. Then of course he had multiple chances to win it in OT and threw the fatal pick.

 

This is the thing with Manning, while I do agree that he gets WAY too much blame for the 11 playoff losses, he has often not played like the best player on the field either. Every time he steps on the field he is the best player, he has been the highest paid player in the NFL for most of his career, but he has not been that guy often enough to help his team win more in the post-season. The guys at CHFF can wax poetic all they want about how his team let him down and how his stats were better than average but the greats understand that more is required. I am not saying Manning didn't necessarily do enough but the playoffs require more than enough. 

 

I also think what hurts Manning and his perception of being such a failure in the playoffs is because he has been so magnificient in the regular season. He has the four league MVPs, so many records, and always appears to be in such control of everything that you expect him to win. So his shortcomings are more glaring which is probably unfair but as I have always said, legendary status is made the post-season so that is the judging stick.

 

I think what is worse is that when his teams win like last season in Denver - it was all him and his Indy offense but when they lose it is everyone else. Can't have it both ways.

 

This is turning into a very familiar argument, so I'll just stick to my original point. And that point stands very solidly when you look at the Broncos/Ravens game last year. The Broncos had the lead late in the fourth quarter, and that lead was surrendered by the defense. No quarterback has been on a team that has given up a fourth quarter lead on defense more than Peyton Manning. It pokes a very big hole in the "Manning doesn't play well in the playoffs, and that's why he has a poor postseason record" line of reasoning.

 

I'm not laying all the blame on the defense, and I'm not giving him and the offense all the credit. I'm simply pointing out a very basic fact that I think is highly relevant to the discussion.

[amfootball]

This is turning into a very familiar argument, so I'll just stick to my original point. And that point stands very solidly when you look at the Broncos/Ravens game last year. The Broncos had the lead late in the fourth quarter, and that lead was surrendered by the defense. No quarterback has been on a team that has given up a fourth quarter lead on defense more than Peyton Manning. It pokes a very big hole in the "Manning doesn't play well in the playoffs, and that's why he has a poor postseason record" line of reasoning.

 

I'm not laying all the blame on the defense, and I'm not giving him and the offense all the credit. I'm simply pointing out a very basic fact that I think is highly relevant to the discussion.

Yes, no need to rehash past arguments. But the fact is this Manning had three TOs which is a putrid performance from a QB of his caliber in a playoff game. His special teams also gave him 14 points. I believe had Luck been gifted 14 points early in his playoff game vs. the Ravens, the Colts win IMO.

 

Now, I do think there have been other playoff games where you could make a better argument. Sure. But not all fourth quarter comebacks are because the defense played bad, many are because the offense did or the QB turned the ball over. Play better earlier and no need for comebacks. Moore's bad play never has a chance to happen if Manning takes care of the ball and at $20 mil that is what you are expecting from him.

 

I stick to my original point which is the fact that more is expected of Manning in the playoffs because he has been one of the best players of his generation and paid as the best player in football for most of his career. That is why it is not unfair to criticize him in this regard. 20 games is a large sampling of games as well.

[Superman]

At least he didn't say yutes.

 

What's a yute?