would you support a trade, fleener to new England

[Jason_]

If the real Fleener is the player we saw year 1 (complete with injuries), we are better off getting a 1st or 2nd for him now if we can.

 

Hmm, well if the real Andrew Luck is the one that threw 18 INT's and only had a completion percentage of 54% then we might need to start looking at a replacement for him too. 

[FicmanS]

I would have a hard time trading our Gatorade guy to NE for a first rounder, just on principle of not wanting to give them anything

[Jason_]

I would have a hard time trading our Gatorade guy to NE for a first rounder, just on principle of not wanting to give them anything

 

Hmm, I think I'd be willing to let them have the Gatorade guy so long as we keep the actual Gatorade.

 

lol

[Peytonparker]

 

[Mitch]

I still don't understand why people are so willing to give up on Fleener? He was hurt most of last year and Bruce used him the wrong way, Pep will know how to use him. 

 

I really think now with what happened to Hernandez that Fleener/Allen could develop into one of the NFL's top TE-duo, if not the top. Just give him another year or 2, hopefully healthy ones and then make your claims about him. Just give the guy a chance though.

[CanuckColt]

I still don't understand why people are so willing to give up on Fleener? He was hurt most of last year and Bruce used him the wrong way, Pep will know how to use him. 

 

I really think now with what happened to Hernandez that Fleener/Allen could develop into one of the NFL's top TE-duo, if not the top. Just give him another year or 2, hopefully healthy ones and then make your claims about him. Just give the guy a chance though.

Nobody is giving up on Fleener yet... BUT...the question is "Would you support a trade of Fleener to New England" NOW.

If New England offers their #1, then the answer must be YES. Let NE hope that Fleener develops into a pro-bowl TE (and he probably would with them). We already have our pro-bowl TE for many years in Dwayne Allen...and there are only so many footballs to go around.

[Dtman513]

I'm support Fleener and his potential breakout year AS A COLT....

[spoonfish]

For all the people that say they hope fleener and allen become the next gronk and hernandez, lets hope they're wrong. We don't need the drama.

[GoColts8818]

If the real Fleener is the player we saw year 1 (complete with injuries), we are better off getting a 1st or 2nd for him now if we can.

no one is going to give us a first or second rounder for him.

[Mitch]

Nobody is giving up on Fleener yet... BUT...the question is "Would you support a trade of Fleener to New England" NOW.

If New England offers their #1, then the answer must be YES. Let NE hope that Fleener develops into a pro-bowl TE (and he probably would with them). We already have our pro-bowl TE for many years in Dwayne Allen...and there are only so many footballs to go around.

 

I will agree...If NE offered a #1, I would have to say yes. Although I don't see them doing that, if anything they would only offer a 3rd.  I just see the Patriots going to FA to pick one up for cheap. Will be interesting to see what happens,

[BOTT]

no one is going to give us a first or second rounder for him.

If I was NE I would give up my second in a heartbeat

[CanuckColt]

The Colts have an interesting situation....

If we did not have Dwayne Allen then nobody would want to trade Fleener at any cost.

Having Allen at TE makes Fleener expendable at the right price...mainly because we have a limited number of passing plays per game and a LOT of receivers(WR,TE,RB) who want the ball.

[Nesjan3]

To any other team for a 1st rounder, but to NE never

[Powerslave]

Hmm, well if the real Andrew Luck is the one that threw 18 INT's and only had a completion percentage of 54% then we might need to start looking at a replacement for him too. 

 

Thats not a fair comparison.  Its irrelevent, because NO TEAM is going to give up a 1st Rd pick for Fleener.  I can't believe this thread is 4 pages long.  A 2nd Rd pick maybe then we have a debate.

[Gavin]

Int 1-Underthrown vs Bears (Jennings picked off)

Int 2-Deflected by Jennings to Conti (I think the pass was right on target, Jennings just made a great play on the ball followed by Conti

Int 3-Underthrown (Jennings made a heck of a catch though)

Int 4-Did not appear to see Posluszny and threw it right to him over the middle

Int 5-Threw into coverage to Casey Heyward

Int 6-Threw a bit high but Wayne should have came down with it, deflected off his hands to Cromartie

Int 7-Lankster made a great play on the ball flipping his hips to turn for the int but I think Luck thought he could fit it past him

Int 8-Overthrown to Micheal Griffin

Int 9-Underthrown to Aaron Ross

Int 10-Overthrow to Aqib Talib (Under alot of pressure)

Int 11-Did not read Alphonso Dennard on the pass to Wayne (focused his eyes on him the whole time) and Dennard picked it off

Int 12-Forced a pass to Wayne, tipped by Arrington and intercepted by Wilson

Int 13-Deflected off Waynes hands, Threw it behind him, I think Wayne could have hauled that in

Int 14-locked on to Hilton on a slant route, Drayton Florence read it and jumped the route

Int 15-Under pressure, got hit, Carey made a leaping interception but still underthrown

Int 16-Overthrow to Carey, target was Hilton

*Int 17-Threw pass while going down, Witherspoon was in the right place and time in my opinion, good catch though and ran back for td......Lucks knees were down.

Int 18 Intercept by Al Afalava, overthrown on the last play hail mary of the half

 

 

Truthfully the only one that is cause for any concern would be the int by Posluszny in my opinion, Simply because Great QB's always think they can force tough passes into tight spots and the underthrows and over throws should drastically go down with the new offense(which should mean he gets the ball out quicker then these long slant routes and Corner routes did)and more time to jell with the wr's, Some of them Corners made a heck of a play on the ball, I say he had 17 int's..

[Colts420]

WHY THE *()(*%^* would we trade any player to the Pats??????

[John Dee]

No..

Would colts consider trading fleener for new Englands first round next year. Just food for thought. May be a good replacement for Hernandez. I am a believer in fleeners potential.

[John Dee]

Int 1-Underthrown vs Bears (Jennings picked off)

Int 2-Deflected by Jennings to Conti (I think the pass was right on target, Jennings just made a great play on the ball followed by Conti

Int 3-Underthrown (Jennings made a heck of a catch though)

Int 4-Did not appear to see Posluszny and threw it right to him over the middle

Int 5-Threw into coverage to Casey Heyward

Int 6-Threw a bit high but Wayne should have came down with it, deflected off his hands to Cromartie

Int 7-Lankster made a great play on the ball flipping his hips to turn for the int but I think Luck thought he could fit it past him

Int 8-Overthrown to Micheal Griffin

Int 9-Underthrown to Aaron Ross

Int 10-Overthrow to Aqib Talib (Under alot of pressure)

Int 11-Did not read Alphonso Dennard on the pass to Wayne (focused his eyes on him the whole time) and Dennard picked it off

Int 12-Forced a pass to Wayne, tipped by Arrington and intercepted by Wilson

Int 13-Deflected off Waynes hands, Threw it behind him, I think Wayne could have hauled that in

Int 14-locked on to Hilton on a slant route, Drayton Florence read it and jumped the route

Int 15-Under pressure, got hit, Carey made a leaping interception but still underthrown

Int 16-Overthrow to Carey, target was Hilton

*Int 17-Threw pass while going down, Witherspoon was in the right place and time in my opinion, good catch though and ran back for td......Lucks knees were down.

Int 18 Intercept by Al Afalava, overthrown on the last play hail mary of the half

 

 

Truthfully the only one that is cause for any concern would be the int by Posluszny in my opinion, Simply because Great QB's always think they can force tough passes into tight spots and the underthrows and over throws should drastically go down with the new offense(which should mean he gets the ball out quicker then these long slant routes and Corner routes did)and more time to jell with the wr's, Some of them Corners made a heck of a play on the ball, I say he had 17 int's..

You forgot to mention the 40+ sacks, the fact he was hit more than any other QB in the NFL.   And the fact Indy's OL was a train wreck last season leaving Luck on the run 24/7.   I think some of that contributed to Luck's inaccuracy. 

[Jules]

It's not like it would ever happen anyway or the Colts would want to.....so....yeah 4 pages of nothing so far.

[CroatianColtsFan21]

How long have people been complaining about the Colts not having a big, athletic target for the QB to throw to, especially in the red zone?  Now we have one (plus the QB that was throwing to him in college, and we now have the coordinator who orchestrated said offense) and people have been trying to get rid of him since the moment he was announced as our draft pick.  I don't get it.

 

No, at this point I wouldn't trade Fleener.  He didn't have a bad season last year, he just didn't have an elite year.  That doesn't mean he can't or won't become an elite player.  I fully believe that he can, and will become an elite player.  The guy is 6'6", 250+ lbs and has the athletic ability of a good WR.  IMO his floor is Jimmy Graham but he has the potential to be even better....again, imo.

 

you are projecting what he could be, given his size and athleticism, but just by watching him play last season (forget the stats, the offensive scheme supposedly not fitted for his talent and the missed games due to injury) i was really disappointed.. all the size and athleticism in the world is useless if a guy isn't a player..

 

right now, he is not worth the pick we used to draft him..

 

hope he proves me wrong this season, but based on what i've seen, i'm not too optimistic..

[Gavin]

You forgot to mention the 40+ sacks, the fact he was hit more than any other QB in the NFL.   And the fact Indy's OL was a train wreck last season leaving Luck on the run 24/7.   I think some of that contributed to Luck's inaccuracy. 

I was just covering his interceptions, and there is NO doubt some of that pressure took a toll on him mentaly at times , a few of his interceptions were because he had to change arm angles which made the ball sail on him, Regardless him focusing his eyes on 1 wr and him not seeing Posluszny is really what should be a cause for concern, Even though I think he will learned from that once he went back and watched film

[colts_mp]

If we could get a 1st or 2nd rounder it's a good trade.   Who cares what team he ends up on as long as it's not a division rival.  New England is not really a rival for us anymore.  When we were playing every year and having great games (regular season and playoffs) then you could say we were rivals. That era has passed us though.  The last 2 times we played NE absolutely crushed us and we don't even play them this year.

 

If we can get a good deal..we need to take it.

[ViriLudant]

Uh, why would New England trade a 1st round pick for a guy who was drafted in the 2nd round, and hasn't proven that he's a first round talent?

[colts_mp]

Uh, why would New England trade a 1st round pick for a guy who was drafted in the 2nd round, and hasn't proven that he's a first round talent?

they wouldn't in reality.  but if they lost their minds and offered we would have to take it in a heartbeat.

[TKnight24]

4 pages of comments and I still don't understand this Fleener hate

[Qwiz]

It's not like it would ever happen anyway or the Colts would want to.....so....yeah 4 pages of nothing so far.

Just a few more comments and we'll be at 5!

[open window]

Bump out of disbelief that this silly thing has lived this long, the King is dead, long live the Queen!

[Jason_]

you are projecting what he could be, given his size and athleticism, but just by watching him play last season (forget the stats, the offensive scheme supposedly not fitted for his talent and the missed games due to injury) i was really disappointed.. all the size and athleticism in the world is useless if a guy isn't a player..

 

right now, he is not worth the pick we used to draft him..

 

hope he proves me wrong this season, but based on what i've seen, i'm not too optimistic..

 

Yes, but I'm also going by what I saw from him his entire final year at Stanford.  I watched every game that year that was broadcast and was very impressed with Fleener the entire year.  So I'm not going just by his first year with the Colts, but that plus his last year at Stanford.

[JoKeR]

Never help a team that's in the way.

[Coltivated]

So the concensus is yes and or $!#& New England wouldn't trade fleener to them for all of thier picks lol.

[CanuckColt]

4 pages of comments and I still don't understand this Fleener hate

Hate is too strong a word...in fact, it is untrue...disappointment is the word that covers it...

disappointment in the level of performance for the year and being soundly outplayed by our 3rd round TE.

disappointment in showing somewhat poor hands for a player/pick of his college reputation and being very inadequate in his ability to block as an NFL TE...looking only like a large average WR, unable to block for his teammates when they have the ball

disappointment in not being able to stay healthy, with the worry of more injuries to come, perhaps many more

 

AND disappointment this year that the team is apparently going to use him as a large WR and nothing much more...

[Dustin]

Hate is too strong a word...in fact, it is untrue...disappointment is the word that covers it...

disappointment in the level of performance for the year and being soundly outplayed by our 3rd round TE.

disappointment in showing somewhat poor hands for a player/pick of his college reputation and being very inadequate in his ability to block as an NFL TE...looking only like a large average WR, unable to block for his teammates when they have the ball

disappointment in not being able to stay healthy, with the worry of more injuries to come, perhaps many more

AND disappointment this year that the team is apparently going to use him as a large WR and nothing much more...

He blocked just fine. Not as good as Allen, but not terrible either.

Also, I don't understand the disappointment in using him as a "large WR" when essentially that's what he is.

[BleedBlu8792]

He blocked just fine. Not as good as Allen, but not terrible either.

Also, I don't understand the disappointment in using him as a "large WR" when essentially that's what he is.

Dallas Clark was used this same way, and to me there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, in fact I've been hoping they would give him Dallas' role. I thought he blocked better last year than Dallas ever did honestly.

[CroatianColtsFan21]

Yes, but I'm also going by what I saw from him his entire final year at Stanford.  I watched every game that year that was broadcast and was very impressed with Fleener the entire year.  So I'm not going just by his first year with the Colts, but that plus his last year at Stanford.

 

i also saw a few games from his senior year at stanford, looked good, that's why the disappointment was even greater watching him with the colts..

 

again, i don't hate on him, just saying he has to perform much, much better to justify his high draft pick..

[antipatriot]

Are we really back to this again.  100% NO the guy  has huge potential and I think will have a great season.  And to the Pats Definitely not.

[SilentHill]

I'd trade him for a 1st rounder in a heartbeat.

[Jason_]

i also saw a few games from his senior year at stanford, looked good, that's why the disappointment was even greater watching him with the colts..

 

again, i don't hate on him, just saying he has to perform much, much better to justify his high draft pick..

 

To an extent I agree.  What I disagree with is the notion that he should have been performing at a significantly higher level in his rookie year.  As has been posted numerous times, his rookie year was right there with some of the others who turned out to be great TE's.  People overlook Luck's low completion percentage and high number of interceptions because of the type of offense that was run and the poor offensive line and rightly so, but Fleener doesn't seem to get any leeway even though his low numbers (at least what people seem to perceive as his low numbers) were in large part due to the same factors.  

 

Fleener was asked to block a lot more than he ideally should have been due to the poor OL play.  He was also lined up on the line the majority of the time so he had a lot more traffic to sift through in order to get out on his route, and with the OL being as bad as it was, Luck simply didn't have time to allow Fleener to get out on a route a lot of the time.

 

I also think his drops are being blown way out of proportion.  Yes there were a couple that he just flat out dropped, but there were far more that were overthrows, which were largely due to the pressure teams got on Luck that prevented him from being able to properly setup and throw the ball.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

No, I know you didn't. I'm saying that if the offer is good enough, virtually anyone can be traded to any other team.

Captain obvious saves the thread.

[Superman]

Captain obvious saves the thread.

 

Wow.

[open window]

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/i%20plead%20the%20fif

 

can i get five?