Colts Select Hugh Thornton With 3rd Pick

[Colts20593]

He was 4th rounder and yeah I remember the pick. I knew nothing about him back when he was drafted.

4th my bad.

Anyway I like this pick, he should push Reitz/Link for a starting job. 60% of the starting O line could be new this season.

[Superman]

Could be our starter.  But by that same logic, if Ijalana is finally healthy he should be starting according to most draftniks.  Just saying that stuff happens.  

 

As I said, I really don't know much about this guy.  I do know that Illinois wasn't exactly a powerhouse last year.  But he could have been their bright spot.

 

One good guard doesn't make a team good, that's for sure. Everything I've seen and read on Thornton has been positive. We acknowledge that he has some technique issues that need to be ironed out, but so does everyone else in the third round. I think he'll be a solid addition who can compete for a starting spot right away. Add him to the mix at guard, and now we have some depth and some upside.

[Smonroe]

What I mean is its a mix mash of guys who have never played together before. They are mostly running new plays, but very basic plays, and especially for lineman, it can make them look worse. Just based on QBs trying to make big plays, and not knowing all the types of protections being called.

And no, never watch the NFL channel unless there's a Colts replay on, or a Thursday night game lol.

 

No, I wasn't talking about the NFL Network.  I was talking about the NFL Channel on Sirius.  

 

Your comment about the Senior Bowl was about 180 degrees from what they talk about.  It's also the place where just about every NFL scout watches players to make final decisions.  Yes, it's technically not a good game, but it's a great game to see how players perform against equal competition.

 

A players draft status rises or falls a lot more based on that game than on how they do in the combine.

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Leveon Bell was drafted by the Steelers

well make that Nico Johnson or Robert lester with QPatton

[Smonroe]

One good guard doesn't make a team good, that's for sure. Everything I've seen and read on Thornton has been positive. We acknowledge that he has some technique issues that need to be ironed out, but so does everyone else in the third round. I think he'll be a solid addition who can compete for a starting spot right away. Add him to the mix at guard, and now we have some depth and some upside.

 

The more I read about him, the more I like the pick.  I don't expect him to be a day one starter, but if it's McGlynn then I sure hope he (or Reitz, Iljalana, Anderson, Griffin) is pushing him out.

[Malakai432]

One good guard doesn't make a team good, that's for sure. Everything I've seen and read on Thornton has been positive. We acknowledge that he has some technique issues that need to be ironed out, but so does everyone else in the third round. I think he'll be a solid addition who can compete for a starting spot right away. Add him to the mix at guard, and now we have some depth and some upside.

That's what it boils down to, depth. They have a LOT of OL that will be competing. Hopefully Big Ben will come back and get in that action as well.

[NewColtsFan]

Grigson, but I am willing to give his decisions a chance to play out.

 

I know you're getting overwhelmed with responses to your post....   I made an earlier post to you and I don't think you saw it, because there's been no response.

 

So,  I'll ask the question again....

 

Doesn't the fact that Grigson played in the NFL as an offensive lineman give you any comfort that he knows OL talent?

 

You made negative comments about Cherilous, Brown and now Thornton, and I confess that surprises me.....

 

Again,  I look forward to your comments....

[House]

No, I wasn't talking about the NFL Network. I was talking about the NFL Channel on Sirius.

Your comment about the Senior Bowl was about 180 degrees from what they talk about. It's also the place where just about every NFL scout watches players to make final decisions. Yes, it's technically not a good game, but it's a great game to see how players perform against equal competition.

A players draft status rises or falls a lot more based on that game than on how they do in the combine.

whoops. I listen to Maddog radio and the ESPN channels when I'm in the car. I've never heard the NFL channel before, though I suppose I have it.

Yeah, I wouldn't argue scouts value it, but I suppose from my perspective I tend to forgive a lot of mistakes based on format.

Scouts also know exactly what they are looking for, so it's likely really good for them in that reguard as you say. But unless I was watching one player the whole game specifically, I feel like I would be hesitant to make too many judgements.

Not saying nobody else could, just me personally lol.

[ballstmc53]

The games are won in the trenches and they are drafting just that.

[LockeDown]

If most of us have never heard of our 3rd pick, just imagine how unknowable the rest of our picks will be. Is there an Iranian football league where Grigson has been spotted?

[gacker65]

What I'm trying to say to you, is that that's a dead-end logical statement.  We KNOW, for a fact, that there are gems found late in the draft, a duds picked early.  But the logic you're using can work to say, for instance, the 12th overall pick isn't as good as the 11th overall pick, because if he was better he would have been the 11th overall pick instead.

 

The draft isn't this mathematically linear phenomenon.  You can't just apply that kind of logical maxim to evaluate the draft.  Otherwise you could say about any team's draft pick, other than the Chiefs first overall pick I guess, that their pick wasn't the optimal pick because the optimal player for them to be taken would have already been taken by someone else.

I agree that gems can be found in the later rds and there are reasons that both you and I know for that.

As for using linear math for drafting is very possible, but variables have to come from theoretical math: observations, measureables, subjective interviews.  All are given numbers that become the draft grade.  While setting the board, needs should take precedent over wants which changes draft grades on players.  All math and pretty straight.

[Tark The Shark]

Thornton is a great pick for the 3rd round.

 

He is very aggressive and looks very much like the Grigson type, tough and versatile.

 

Also is mentally tough and has a mean streak to him.

 

With his size, I am sure he could play both tackle and guard spots.

[gacker65]

That seems somewhat... vainglorious, if I do say so myself.

No.  Just responding,  but if you would like, check out my posts from last year's predraft and see for your self.

[Hans Moleman]

Like the pick

Remember the time Polian wasted a 3rd rounder on McClendon, no wonder 2011 was a disaster

 

While McClendon wasn't, while we're on the topic of horrible 3rd round picks, who could forget the legendary 3rd rounder Sweet Pea Burns? We may as well have put Sweet Pea Whitaker at DT.

[Warhawk]

I agree that gems can be found in the later rds and there are reasons that both you and I know for that.

As for using linear math for drafting is very possible, but variables have to come from theoretical math: observations, measureables, subjective interviews.  All are given numbers that become the draft grade.  While setting the board, needs should take precedent over wants which changes draft grades on players.  All math and pretty straight.

 

The underlying determinations are highly abstract.

[dw49]

Why, because I do not like our drafting.  I can express my opinions as well as any one else.  Besides, I have been more right than wrong in the last few year

 

 

 

 

Do yourself a favor and just don't respond to those calling you out on that post. It's horrible and really doesn't have much at all to do with "not liking our draft." Two of the players you rip are free agent signings and the drafted one is a nice tough prospect that was drafted right where he was projected to go. 

[Warhawk]

While McClendon wasn't, while we're on the topic of horrible 3rd round picks, who could forget the legendary 3rd rounder Sweet Pea Burns? We may as well have put Sweet Pea Whitaker at DT.

 

Can i bring up Daymeion Hughes, Quinn Pitcock, Vincent Burns, and Gilbert Gardner at the moment?

 

Seems appropriate.

[krunk]

“I like that our whole staff has had big grades on him since August,” said Grigson. “This was a guy who played left tackle this year at a high level. (He) really is a great fit at guard, but started all four different positions, except center. " http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/OFF-THE-RADAR-ON-THE-ROSTER/c0dc6882-0163-4be6-8ed3-3fa79b59320e

I'm also wondering how this signing is going to effect Jeff Linkenbach. This kid Thornton basically can do everything Linkenbach can do. Versatility is one of the main reasons or excuses(depending on what year you choose)we always cited for keeping Link around. Now that we have a young guy who can do the things Link can do, I wonder what this means for him as well.

[ALuck>RG3]

Cherilus- one good season, before that Stafford had to run for his life.

Thomas- perennial back-up. Don't know if can give us 16 games.

This new OG- not that good or would have been drafted higher. Probably will not start this year except because of injuries.

Glass half empty kind of guy I see

[jerrykokomo]

Math for picks? Vainglorious? Wow, over my head and I used math n big words for my EET and military career. Simple question... Who will b r insignificant this yr? Receiver? Back?

[gacker65]

I think this kid will be productive in our scheme. In some ways I do feel like Thornton would have been available as late as the 4th round, but I had to remember if Grigs really likes a guy he moves aggressively to obtain his services. That must have been his mindset with this pick.

I don't put much stock into draft projection determining whether or not a guy can play. There's been many a high draft pick that failed to produce much of anything. Thorntons' draft projection does not really give much truth to whether or not he will be productive.

 

I think this kid will be productive in our scheme. In some ways I do feel like Thornton would have been available as late as the 4th round, but I had to remember if Grigs really likes a guy he moves aggressively to obtain his services. That must have been his mindset with this pick.

I don't put much stock into draft projection determining whether or not a guy can play. There's been many a high draft pick that failed to produce much of anything. Thorntons' draft projection does not really give much truth to whether or not he will be productive.

I agree that Thornton could work in our system, but not day 1.  We needed a day 1 starter not some one down the road.

 

To Grigson being aggressive because of like, that is called reaching.  You draft some one you like, but could do without.  hard to explain, but the closest way at this time.

 

Draft projections are based on past performance, measureable, and sujective interviews, but as you stated has nothing to do with how productive said player will be. 

[itmustbejj]

Ok, well as a realist you should find comfort that Ryan Grigson knows more than you and has been recognized by his peers to be pretty good at his job.

 

I am a realist.

[gacker65]

Hmmmm... Troll?  Yes, me thinks so.

No. Just stating my opinions.  Been through good and bad with Colts since 1969.

[gacker65]

I have no reason to believe this offensive line is going to be even remotely comparable to how it was last year. The depth is ridiculous.

Never said they would.  I agree that we upgraded over last year's Oline, but how much is still yetto be detemined.

[Boiler_Colt]

I thought for sure Patton was going to be the pick. I'm happy with this Cat though. Patton will not last until our next pick, but I'll do a backflip if he does.

[BleedBlu8792]

No. Just responding, but if you would like, check out my posts from last year's predraft and see for your self.

You mean you along with 9736382929 other people guessed Luck for the first pick? Toot that horn buddy...

And as far as pass rusher being a want?? It was a severe NEED. Mathis is really the only proven pass rusher the Colts have. Werner is an every down player who will be able to play BOTH OLB spots. The guy was a steal at #24 and obviously there were no O-line players of value that were on par with Werner.

On top of that, and even I was a proponent of trading back, but even that guarantees you nothing. Nor does it guarantee that Werner is still there. The only thing it guarantees is head count, but what good is that if you lose the people you were counting on being there. Then you're more than likely selecting a player graded lower at a position when you could have had better had you just stayed where you were.

You're fighting a losing battle...

[krunk]

I agree that Thornton could work in our system, but not day 1.  We needed a day 1 starter not some one down the road.

 

To Grigson being aggressive because of like, that is called reaching.  You draft some one you like, but could do without.  hard to explain, but the closest way at this time.

 

Draft projections are based on past performance, measureable, and sujective interviews, but as you stated has nothing to do with how productive said player will be.

Not exactly sure how you figure the kid couldn't start from day one. That's what they drafted him for, to compete for the starting guard position. Grigson has stated on more than one occasion that we do not aquire players with less than an expectation of them starting. What is your apprehension to "reaching" as you say if the player is truly talented? We "reached" on T.Y. Hilton last year according to many people at the time when Grigson made the pick. I'm sure when Grigs "reaches" he's done his due dillegence on the player well before the draft occurs.

[T Y Goodbye]

From a article I just read in yahoo..

 

Thornton could help in several ways.

At 6-foot-5, 320 pounds, he gives the Colts the size, strength and nasty demeanor Grigson likes. He also adds versatility. Last season, Thornton played left tackle and wound up as a second-team all-Big Ten selection by the coaches. He played well enough at the Senior Bowl that Grigson noticed.

Thornton also helps solidify the interior line where the Colts have struggled over the past several seasons. Suddenly, the Colts are starting to look more solid at guard with McGlynn and Thomas and Justin Anderson, a seventh-round draft pick last year, and now Thornton.

If there were any doubts about Thornton , the Colts even had a little inside information.

''One of the great things about him is that the guy that recruited him and coached him is, Joe Gilbert, is our line coach,'' coach Pagano said. ''So that trust is already there.''(backslash)

 

To anyone that wants to complain about woulda. shoulda, coulda...We got both Werner and Thornton...Two very good picks that are going to improve our team greatly...We needed someone mean and nasty without being a hot head, and we got that on our O-Line right now..., and in late round 3...You can nitpick all you want...but we got the two guys Pagano and Grigs really wanted..without losing any more picks...

 

Now we can go after some skill positions for more depth...I want Jonathan Franklin or Quentin Patton with our 4th pick personally. But I have faith in whomever Colts management decides is best for our 2013 Colts..

 

For the amount of picks we have, we are doing very well...I can't wait to see who we get later on....

[gacker65]

I know you're getting overwhelmed with responses to your post....   I made an earlier post to you and I don't think you saw it, because there's been no response.

 

So,  I'll ask the question again....

 

Doesn't the fact that Grigson played in the NFL as an offensive lineman give you any comfort that he knows OL talent?

 

You made negative comments about Cherilous, Brown and now Thornton, and I confess that surprises me.....

 

Again,  I look forward to your comments....

Just because you played a position does not make you a guru or even in some cases able to judge talent at that position.  With all that said, I give grigson the benefit of doubt and will wait to see what happens.

 

As for negative comments, Cherilus and Brown's were fact.  Thornton's was based in past experience.

[gacker65]

The underlying determinations are highly abstract.

So is theoretical math. Like statistics can be made to say what you want it to say.

[Dustin]

Shouldn't the title say 2nd pick?

[gacker65]

Do yourself a favor and just don't respond to those calling you out on that post. It's horrible and really doesn't have much at all to do with "not liking our draft." Two of the players you rip are free agent signings and the drafted one is a nice tough prospect that was drafted right where he was projected to go. 

Thank you for your concern.  Answering has help me stay calm and express my reasons not only toothers, but also myself.

[gacker65]

Glass half empty kind of guy I see

No a free thinker. 

[gacker65]

Ok, well as a realist you should find comfort that Ryan Grigson knows more than you and has been recognized by his peers to be pretty good at his job.

Still yet to be determined if he knows more.

[Dustin]

Still yet to be determined if he knows more.

I think your answers in this thread have already proved that he (and a lot of others) knows more than you.

[James]

Still yet to be determined if he knows more.

No it isn't. Now leave.

[gacker65]

You mean you along with 9736382929 other people guessed Luck for the first pick? Toot that horn buddy...

And as far as pass rusher being a want?? It was a severe NEED. Mathis is really the only proven pass rusher the Colts have. Werner is an every down player who will be able to play BOTH OLB spots. The guy was a steal at #24 and obviously there were no O-line players of value that were on par with Werner.

On top of that, and even I was a proponent of trading back, but even that guarantees you nothing. Nor does it guarantee that Werner is still there. The only thing it guarantees is head count, but what good is that if you lose the people you were counting on being there. Then you're more than likely selecting a player graded lower at a position when you could have had better had you just stayed where you were.

You're fighting a losing battle...

No, I said if we drafted Luck we would draft alot more Offense than Defense.  I also said Luck had a downside that would affect his play.

I was the one that said Peyton would be playing this past year, based on my past experiences. 

 

As for pass rusher being a severe need, what is Sidbury, chopped liver.

 

This question needs to be answered first, why did Werner drop to 24. 

[NewEra]

No, I said if we drafted Luck we would draft alot more Offense than Defense. I also said Luck had a downside that would affect his play.

I was the one that said Peyton would be playing this past year, based on my past experiences.

As for pass rusher being a severe need, what is Sidbury, chopped liver.

This question needs to be answered first, why did Werner drop to 24.

Cause he ran a 4.8 40. Good thing Grigson goes on tape instead of just combine results.

[gacker65]

Not exactly sure how you figure the kid couldn't start from day one. That's what they drafted him for, to compete for the starting guard position. Grigson has stated on more than one occasion that we do not aquire players with less than an expectation of them starting. What is your apprehension to "reaching" as you say if the player is truly talented? We "reached" on T.Y. Hilton last year according to many people at the time when Grigson made the pick. I'm sure when Grigs "reaches" he's done his due dillegence on the player well before the draft occurs.

IMO, he will not start day 1 because of where he was drafted.  If he was a day 1 started, then he wp\ould have went higher.  Again, I have said there are exceptions.

 

I hope he does well, but will not shout for joy till I see it.

[Warhawk]

Cause he ran a 4.8 40. Good thing Grigson goes on tape instead of just combine results.

 

This.  There is a long history of teams getting caught up in measurables rather than production when it comes to pass rushers, which is detrimental since production in college tends to be a very good predictor of production in the NFL when it comes to pass rushing.

 

Additionally, it would be functionally impossible to take a player at 24 who didn't drop to 24, so asking why Werner in particular dropped to 24 is pointless.

 

To say that a player is only as good as his draft slot is ignoring the reality of the draft, which is that different commodities at different stages of the draft mean different things to different teams.  To say that a player your team picks in the third round is a bad pick because that player fell to the third round is a contradiction that can't be reconciled.  Yes, absent any context I would rather have Warmack than Thornton, but that entire discussion would be irrelevant.