Andrew Luck vs RGIII. This should settle things among those who don't know which to chose

[Moose Of Woe]

 We had a flashy offense, a great QB, and Freeney/Mathis. That's it.

 

Hey don't forget Bob Sanders!

 

...

 

Sometimes.

[nburgmei]

Hey don't forget Bob Sanders!

 

...

 

Sometimes.

 

I still wonder what the Colts would look like if Bob had managed to stay healthy. That's some nostalgia.

[NewEra]

From what I see. I like Wilson over rg3

[nburgmei]

I do feel like Wilson has unfairly been left out of the ROY discussion. He's been every been as good as the other two.

[jemack]

Why People...............Why?

[jvan1973]

Bobs knee is looking less stable than our oline

[NewEra]

Yeah, his career going to go fast like that

[cmgww]

I feel for the guy, I know he's a gamer, but Shanahan should have pulled him at halftime. Ridiculous they allowed him to play on that bad wheel. Players are NEVER going to take themselves out, we all know that.

[Flash7]

Kirk Cousins comes in and the Redskins go to a traditional drop back pass offense. But with Griffen and one good knee, they still ran the read option throughout the game. Obviously they put RGIII in harms way this game.

[Hans Moleman]

Really dumb move by Shanahan today. I like RGIII, so I really didn't like seeing him go down like that when he was in no state to play.

 

Wilson's good, too. I think he benefits from having the best all-around team compared to the 'Skins and Colts, but he's a good player.

[Gramz]

Really dumb move by Shanahan today. I like RGIII, so I really didn't like seeing him go down like that when he was in no state to play.

 

Wilson's good, too. I think he benefits from having the best all-around team compared to the 'Skins and Colts, but he's a good player.

This was the first time I really had a chance to watch Wilson play.  I was very impressed with him.

I think they will give Atlanta quite a game next week.

 

And yes, whether you like a player or not, never like to see someone go down like RG3 did.  Looked to me like he could have very well broken his leg today,  or shattered his ACL at the very least.

[mahagga73]

The bandwagon is starting to get lighter...

not really. I think Lucks going to last a lot longer to be honest with you.

[Snowglobe]

not really. I think Lucks going to last a lot longer to be honest with you.

 

No it wasnt a shot at luck or the colts but some guy was bringing in statistics from college...to judge luck's play today. wth?

[Jules]

The bandwagon is starting to get lighter...

 

Yeah no kidding. I don't know if Andrew Luck can win the big one. This is awful. Next season he will only be a year older and our odds decreasing!!!

 

[GoColts8818]

This was the first time I really had a chance to watch Wilson play.  I was very impressed with him.

I think they will give Atlanta quite a game next week.

 

And yes, whether you like a player or not, never like to see someone go down like RG3 did.  Looked to me like he could have very well broken his leg today,  or shattered his ACL at the very least.

Me too I chuckled when watching him and turned to my dad and said who would have thought with all the hype over RG3 and Luck Wilson would have the best rookie season.  I also agree that they are probably going to give the Falcons a good game next week.  If they end up playing the Packers in the NFC Title game I am sure the Packers wouldn't mind another shot at them after how the last game between the two ended. 

 

That was one ugly looking way for RG3 to go down and I hated to see it.  I do have to say I wonder if he should have been out there.  There was a story today that he was never cleared to return to the Ravens game when he did and I think the Redskins already got fined once for not reporting an injury he had.  I would not put it past Shanahan to play a player who really shouldn't be playing if he thinks it will win him a game. 

[Gramz]

Me too I chuckled when watching him and turned to my dad and said who would have thought with all the hype over RG3 and Luck Wilson would have the best rookie season.  I also agree that they are probably going to give the Falcons a good game next week.  If they end up playing the Packers in the NFC Title game I am sure the Packers wouldn't mind another shot at them after how the last game between the two ended. 

 

That was one ugly looking way for RG3 to go down and I hated to see it.  I do have to say I wonder if he should have been out there.  There was a story today that he was never cleared to return to the Ravens game when he did and I think the Redskins already got fined once for not reporting an injury he had.  I would not put it past Shanahan to play a player who really shouldn't be playing if he thinks it will win him a game. 

My husband said the same thing.... 

[GoColts8818]

My husband said the same thing.... 

In fact I know he would when the Broncos won their first Super Bowl under him they faced a key 3rd and 1 and Broncos wanted to run a play action pass and Davis was out of the game at the time with a migraine head ache and Shanahan went up to him and said I need you out there or they wont even think it's a run.  It was on the recap of that Super Bowl that ESPN runs around this time of year. 

[needanoline63]

Rg3 was the better quarterback this year. But he has a better supporting cast, offensively and defensively. Luck deserves rookie of the year though cause he led us to 11-5 record, with a rookie head coach, rookie players, a poor defense(inconsistent can also be used to describe) and much more. So ya he deserves rookie of the year, had a decent statistical year, but not better then rg3

[NewEra]

That's your opinion. If was more flashy, I'll give you that.

[Balzer40]

This article sums up what most people already knew. RG3 will have to prove a lot more next yr..

 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/pete-prisco/21511391/monday-musings-blame-your-offense-redskins-not-rg3

[RGIII]

This article sums up what most people already knew. RG3 will have to prove a lot more next yr..

 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/pete-prisco/21511391/monday-musings-blame-your-offense-redskins-not-rg3

 

Please.  Prisco is a *.

 

From what I see. I like Wilson over rg3

 

Wilson doesn't wow me that much, honestly.  If you play good contain on him he is probably the worst of the big three rookie QBs.  Unfortunately, our defense is terrible at that (something that I had noted prior to the game as the likely way the Seahawks would be able to beat us) and he was able to make enough short throws and plays with his feet to beat us.

 

As the season has gone on and we've seen more and more of these guys the luster has inevitably worn off on all of them.  Luck was the first among them for me, largely because his scheme exposed his flaws immediately.  Wilson I didn't take a hard look at until the lead up to this game and he looks like a slightly less impressive version of Griffin to me albeit with two major differences in that he is more slippery than fast and has done a better job of taking care of his body over the course of the season.  Griffin was a pleasure to watch for much of the season but he needs to be quicker off his first read and he needs to drop this mentality fast:

 

[RGIII]

In fact I know he would when the Broncos won their first Super Bowl under him they faced a key 3rd and 1 and Broncos wanted to run a play action pass and Davis was out of the game at the time with a migraine head ache and Shanahan went up to him and said I need you out there or they wont even think it's a run.  It was on the recap of that Super Bowl that ESPN runs around this time of year. 

 

That was a good decision by Shanahan in a completely incomparable situation.  Davis was at no risk there, he just had to go out there and run into the pile while Elway executed the fake.

 

I've had migraines before and I've had lower body ligament injuries before.  Completely different animals.

[Balzer40]

Please.  Prisco is a *.

 

 

Prisco may very well be a *, but he was told these things from a defensive coach. I have said it all yr., it is only a matter of time before defenses catch up with any kind of unconventional offense and when they do, adjustments have to be made. It will basically be like RG3 having to learn another new offense and become a more prototypical QB. He hasn't proven he can do that yet at the NFL level. So he will have to go through more growing pains than the other 2nd yr. QB's next season. 

 

BTW, I don't doubt that RG3 can become a good conventional QB, but I certainly don't think he'll be the world beater he appeared to be at times this season. He just can't sustain that type of success once teams figure out how to defense him and the Skins offense.

[Dustin]

Davis was at no risk there

 

He couldn't see at all. He could have easily been injured by not being able to brace from a hit he couldn't see.

[RGIII]

Prisco may very well be a *, but he was told these things from a defensive coach. I have said it all yr., it is only a matter of time before defenses catch up with any kind of unconventional offense and when they do, adjustments have to be made. It will basically be like RG3 having to learn another new offense and become a more prototypical QB. He hasn't proven he can do that yet at the NFL level. So he will have to go through more growing pains than the other 2nd yr. QB's next season. 

 

I've said the following all year: you can defend the zone read but you cannot defend against all things at once.  If you gameplan to take that play away we have the capacity within our existing playbook to attack you in other ways.  We are not nor have we ever been a pistol-only, read-option only offense.  The people assuming that we are that one-dimensional either haven't followed the team from start to finish or have some measure of confirmation bias from the times that we do run those plays.

[Superman]

Prisco may very well be a *, but he was told these things from a defensive coach. I have said it all yr., it is only a matter of time before defenses catch up with any kind of unconventional offense and when they do, adjustments have to be made. It will basically be like RG3 having to learn another new offense and become a more prototypical QB. He hasn't proven he can do that yet at the NFL level. So he will have to go through more growing pains than the other 2nd yr. QB's next season. 

 

BTW, I don't doubt that RG3 can become a good conventional QB, but I certainly don't think he'll be the world beater he appeared to be at times this season. He just can't sustain that type of success once teams figure out how to defense him and the Skins offense.

 

 

I've said the following all year: you can defend the zone read but you cannot defend against all things at once.  If you gameplan to take that play away we have the capacity within our existing playbook to attack you in other ways.  We are not nor have we ever been a pistol-only read-option only offense.  The people assuming that we are that one-dimensional either haven't followed the team from start to finish or have some measure of confirmation bias from the times that we do run those plays.

 

The difference between the zone read and the wildcat, or some other offensive gimmick, is that the zone read is just a part of a normal offense. You run it out of the same personnel packages and formations as you run your normal offense (or at least you can). It's essentially just another play. You have a quarterback that runs your traditional offense, who can sit in the pocket and throw the ball all over the field, but he can also run, so you take advantage of his ability to make plays with his legs, and you play on the defense's hesitation to create more space for your backs and receivers. It still focuses on execution, not funky alignments.

 

Compare that to the wildcat, where you have a designated wildcat quarterback, often someone who isn't very good throwing the ball, and you're changing your personnel and tipping the defense that something is coming. The zone read is different. It's an extension of your normal offense.

[Balzer40]

I've said the following all year: you can defend the zone read but you cannot defend against all things at once.  If you gameplan to take that play away we have the capacity within our existing playbook to attack you in other ways.  We are not nor have we ever been a pistol-only, read-option only offense.  The people assuming that we are that one-dimensional either haven't followed the team from start to finish or have some measure of confirmation bias from the times that we do run those plays.

 

 

You missed the rest of my post that I edited. I have no doubt that there is more to the Skins playbook than just the read option, but RG3 hasn't really played much else than that. Now, I'll admit, I haven't seen all of the skins games so I don't know 1st hand what all RG3 has ran in the offense, but my point still remains. I think RG3 is in for a much rougher yr. next season than he had this season, especially if shannahan is stubborn and sticks with the read option. Not only will it not be nearly as successful next season, but he will destroy RG3's body and his mentality. 

 

Like I said, I'm positive that RG3 can become a more prototypical QB, but his days of just running wild on defenses will not happen next season because teams will figure it out and/or he'll get seriously injured and shorten his career.

[mahagga73]

Please.  Prisco is a *.

 

 

Wilson doesn't wow me that much, honestly.  If you play good contain on him he is probably the worst of the big three rookie QBs.  Unfortunately, our defense is terrible at that (something that I had noted prior to the game as the likely way the Seahawks would be able to beat us) and he was able to make enough short throws and plays with his feet to beat us.

 

As the season has gone on and we've seen more and more of these guys the luster has inevitably worn off on all of them.  Luck was the first among them for me, largely because his scheme exposed his flaws immediately.  Wilson I didn't take a hard look at until the lead up to this game and he looks like a slightly less impressive version of Griffin to me albeit with two major differences in that he is more slippery than fast and has done a better job of taking care of his body over the course of the season.  Griffin was a pleasure to watch for much of the season but he needs to be quicker off his first read and he needs to drop this mentality fast:

 

I'm not sold that your vaunted RG3 is going to last playing this kind of gimmicky offense. Dropback passers are what last  in the NFL . Those kinds of guys, ala Vick, don't last. He already has one major injury . NFL coaches are  going to have the whole offseason to break it down and figure out how to keep him in the pocket and then what?

[RGIII]

He couldn't see at all. He could have easily been injured by not being able to brace from a hit he couldn't see.

 

He could also have been hurt tripping over something on the way to the bench.  There is risk inherent in everything... that play in the Super Bowl was worth the relatively small level of risk.

 

Go back and watch that play if you have to, Davis stopped running before he reached the line.  All he did was take a few steps and let up.

 

The difference between the zone read and the wildcat, or some other offensive gimmick, is that the zone read is just a part of a normal offense. You run it out of the same personnel packages and formations as you run your normal offense (or at least you can). It's essentially just another play. You have a quarterback that runs your traditional offense, who can sit in the pocket and throw the ball all over the field, but he can also run, so you take advantage of his ability to make plays with his legs, and you play on the defense's hesitation to create more space for your backs and receivers. It still focuses on execution, not funky alignments.

 

Compare that to the wildcat, where you have a designated wildcat quarterback, often someone who isn't very good throwing the ball, and you're changing your personnel and tipping the defense that something is coming. The zone read is different. It's an extension of your normal offense.

 

Exactly.  That's what people just don't get when they bring up the wildcat as a comparison.  I was a skeptic of these kinds of plays at an NFL level for a LONG time.  The Shanahans are the first who I've felt have implemented it well and effectively did the most to change my mind about it.  That said, if you're going to run these plays your number one emphasis has to be on keeping the QB relatively clean.  It can be done and I honestly don't think Griffin has taken too much abuse on those plays, all things considered.

 

The Falcons and Ravens hits were both off of conventional passing plays in poor down and distance situations where Griffin didn't play smartly.  This most recent injury was undoubtedly a result of Griffin playing through something he should not have.

 

I'm not sold that your vaunted RG3 is going to last playing this kind of gimmicky offense. Dropback passers are what last  in the NFL .

 

If Griffin isn't going to last it's because of what I mentioned above and in the second part of the post you quoted.

[Dustin]

He could also have been hurt tripping over something on the way to the bench.  There is risk inherent in everything... that play in the Super Bowl was worth the relatively small level of risk.

 

Go back and watch that play if you have to, Davis stopped running before he reached the line.  All he did was take a few steps and let up.

 

So there's nor risk in him running blind into a pile of 300 lbs men who's job is to hurt/maim/tackle you, but there is a significant risk in walking to the bench? Obviously the decision looks better in hindsight. Guy has no regard for his players.

[mahagga73]

He could also have been hurt tripping over something on the way to the bench.  There is risk inherent in everything... that play in the Super Bowl was worth the relatively small level of risk.

 

Go back and watch that play if you have to, Davis stopped running before he reached the line.  All he did was take a few steps and let up.

 

 

Exactly.  That's what people just don't get when they bring up the wildcat as a comparison.  I was a skeptic of these kinds of plays at an NFL level for a LONG time.  The Shanahans are the first who I've felt have implemented it well and effectively did the most to change my mind about it.  That said, if you're going to run these plays your number one emphasis has to be on keeping the QB relatively clean.  It can be done and I honestly don't think Griffin has taken too much abuse on those plays, all things considered.

 

The Falcons and Ravens hits were both off of conventional passing plays in poor down and distance situations where Griffin didn't play smartly.  This most recent injury was undoubtedly a result of Griffin playing through something he should not have.

 

 

If Griffin isn't going to last it's because of what I mentioned above and in the second part of the post you quoted.

I'm not hating,  the Redskins need to minimize his risk if they want him to last. Seems like his passing skills were pretty good in college . Vick wasn't a passer just an arm really, seems like RG3 might be able to make the adjustment to pocket passer.

[RGIII]

I'm not hating,  the Redskins need to minimize his risk if they want him to last. Seems like his passing skills were pretty good in college . Vick wasn't a passer just an arm really, seems like RG3 might be able to make the adjustment to pocket passer.

 

I'm not worried about his long-term prospects as a passer at all.  He'll be awfully good in that regard if he can hang around and develop more.  That Baylor offense was mighty simple, though, so it'll take him some time to really reach his potential.

 

So there's nor risk in him running blind into a pile of 300 lbs men who's job is to hurt/maim/tackle you, but there is a significant risk in walking to the bench? Obviously the decision looks better in hindsight. Guy has no regard for his players.

 

There's not significant risk in either.  As I said, Davis didn't even run into the pile he let up before that point.  Had a guy gotten through Davis might have taken a hit but it's not like you're totally unprepared for that even with vision problems.  He was not completely blind, by the way.

 

You missed the rest of my post that I edited. I have no doubt that there is more to the Skins playbook than just the read option, but RG3 hasn't really played much else than that. Now, I'll admit, I haven't seen all of the skins games so I don't know 1st hand what all RG3 has ran in the offense, but my point still remains. I think RG3 is in for a much rougher yr. next season than he had this season, especially if shannahan is stubborn and sticks with the read option. Not only will it not be nearly as successful next season, but he will destroy RG3's body and his mentality. 

 

Like I said, I'm positive that RG3 can become a more prototypical QB, but his days of just running wild on defenses will not happen next season because teams will figure it out and/or he'll get seriously injured and shorten his career.

 

We've hurt teams badly from under center at times this season and Griffin is definitely familiar with our under center offense (unlike the ridiculous thing someone suggested the other night in saying that that we have two completely different playbooks and Griffin only knows one of them).  The teams we've faced have just had a harder time against our pistol formations this season, which while newer to the NFL aren't really unconventional or non-pro-style apart from the zone read element we occasionally bring out of it.

 

The read option is a much smaller percentage of our overall offense than people are led to believe and many mistakenly get confused when they see the pistol and assume it's a zone read play, when far more often than not it isn't.

[dw49]

I've said the following all year: you can defend the zone read but you cannot defend against all things at once.  If you gameplan to take that play away we have the capacity within our existing playbook to attack you in other ways.  We are not nor have we ever been a pistol-only, read-option only offense.  The people assuming that we are that one-dimensional either haven't followed the team from start to finish or have some measure of confirmation bias from the times that we do run those plays.

 

 

 

13 games 125 carries...unheard of and he will be battered from pilar to post in that kind of an offense. Big surprise that he didn't last the season.

[GoPats]

Watch out, 'Skins fans... Indy fans have had lots of practice over many years with this type of debate. ;)

[indy1888]

I saw this earlier and found it interesting, but not surprising.

https://twitter.com/PFF

"One additional rookie of the year perspective. Colts OL surrendered 246 total pressures this year. Most of any OL in past 5 years (by 25)"

[Balzer40]

I saw this earlier and found it interesting, but not surprising.

https://twitter.com/PFF

"One additional rookie of the year perspective. Colts OL surrendered 246 total pressures this year. Most of any OL in past 5 years (by 25)"

 

 

I honestly do not care if Luck wins ROY or not, but I do think that a lot of pundits out there really started to realize just how easy the Skins made it on RG3 towards the end of the yr.. Plus the fact that he had much more help along the way than Luck did. Still think they'll hand it to RG3, but if everything were takin into account, it would be Luck, Wilson, then RG3 in voting.

[braveheartcolt]

Watch out, 'Skins fans... Indy fans have had lots of practice over many years with this type of debate. ;)

 

Now now, just because Brady was never in the running for OROTY, don't get all snippy.

 

Oh, look, someone says something 'anti Colts' (even in jest) and our resident troll stamps it with a 'like'. What a surprise!

[braveheartcolt]

I honestly do not care if Luck wins ROY or not, but I do think that a lot of pundits out there really started to realize just how easy the Skins made it on RG3 towards the end of the yr.. Plus the fact that he had much more help along the way than Luck did. Still think they'll hand it to RG3, but if everything were takin into account, it would be Luck, Wilson, then RG3 in voting.

No, that is unfair....

 

I'd put Morris at 2, Wilson & Griffin (the 'Gimmick Twins) at 3.

[Qwiz]

Now now, just because Brady was never in the running for OROTY, don't get all snippy.

Oh, look, someone says something 'anti Colts' (even in jest) and our resident troll stamps it with a 'like'. What a surprise!

Oh look, forum * misinterpreting and assuming the worst once again. I didn't see anything negative or "anticolt" in his post, by the way. Glad to see that I can catch your well-desired attention so easily though.

[NewEra]

Watch out, 'Skins fans... Indy fans have had lots of practice over many years with this type of debate. ;)

Lol you know it!