Paying Our Dues

[Coltsman1788]

Ok...from the start I have seen this as at least a 3 year rebuild with the Colts becoming contenders in year 3. Like many, I envisioned that year 1 would be all about the education and baptism by fire of Andrew Luck. Year 2 would be about adding more talent to the team, building confidence and learning how to win. With Year 3 being the potential break out year for our Colts, armed with a couple of years experience, new offensive & defensive systems firmly in place and the personnel to match. After year 3, the Colts should be a contending team with its future out ahead of them.

It is not guaranteed to happen in that way if at all, but it is always how I envisioned the "building of the monster". I believe with the excitement of this preseason and catching our first glimpse of Andrew Luck and his maturity that many of us started jumping the gun and accelerated our expectations. Some even argued that Luck was a top 5 NFL quarterback NOW even before he played a regular season snap. They overlooked the practical challenges facing this team and dared to dream of 8-9 wins even playoffs in the first year. The lense of fanhood can be blinding sometimes. Potential is seldom realized without going through the process. Some Colts fans acted as if we could bypass the process and go straight to reaping the benefits. Nuh uh...it doesn't work like that.

The Bears game was a much needed reality check for some. I saw nothing yesterday that changed my mind regarding the future potential of Andrew Luck or this Colts team. It just confirmed to me what I believed all along...that this thing will take some time and us Colts fans will just have to remain patient and realistic in our expectations for this year. This is construction and it will not always be pretty to look at. But there will be moments to cling to and to build our faith for the future. Don't be distracted by comparing everything that happens here to what is occuring in D.C. or even Denver for that matter. They are are not in our horse shoes. Well the Broncos may be figuratively speaking but I digress. We will chart our own course and we will be fine...after going through the process.

[gspdx]

"Rome wasn't built in a day." Somebody said that once.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Well, I don't have a problem with year one issues. But I doubt 3 are needed. With the cap space next season and relatively few holes to fill (oline & NT), I think high expectations for next season are warranted.

[Balzer40]

Well, I don't have a problem with year one issues. But I doubt 3 are needed. With the cap space next season and relatively few holes to fill (oline & NT), I think high expectations for next season are warranted.

I totally agree. I really do not think this is a 3 yr. process. Like you said, we have an enormous amount of cap space next season. More than enough to completely fill all the holes we need to fill and add depth where needed. That along with the draft(even though as of right now we don't have many picks), I fully expect to be right back in the mix for playoff contention next season and possibly even a shot at a deep run into the playoffs. Time will tell, but I think we are headed exactly where we need to go.

[FastStarts]

People seem go all crazy about some guys making mistakes, because they play in a system they haven't before. And for Andrew Luck.. I have complete faith that he will work that arm this week and surely as heck burn some defensive backs on Sunday (though one of the INTs were because of an offside).

I completely agree with all of you above! You can't expect a team to do flawless in a game like this vs. a tough team.

[BleedingBlue]

I thought building the monster would have meant being able to both run the ball and stop the run. Our two most glaring defects as a team aside from our secondary.

There is no Polian to blame now.

I would have loved to see any of these names on our roster right now:

Trent Richardson

Doug Martin

David Wilson

Luke Kuechly

Zach Brown

Courtney Upshaw

Any two of these guys would have gone a long way towards "building the monster". Looks like we'll have the #1 pick again next year and some cap space, so we should be phenominal by 2014.

[Balzer40]

I thought building the monster would have meant being able to both run the ball and stop the run. Our two most glaring defects as a team aside from our secondary.

There is no Polian to blame now.

I would have loved to see any of these names on our roster right now:

Trent Richardson

Doug Martin

David Wilson

Luke Kuechly

Zach Brown

Courtney Upshaw

Any two of these guys would have gone a long way towards "building the monster". Looks like we'll have the #1 pick again next year and some cap space, so we should be phenominal by 2014.

[BleedingBlue]

Imagine if we could facepalm at presidential debates. Then our politicians wouldn't have to back up their arguments with intelligent thought out rebuttles...

That said, how do you see us being deep in the playoffs next year? Whom do you see us drafting or acquiring to make this happen? Why facepalm the list above? If we had any 2 of those guys we'd be in better shape than we are now.

Optimism is good, but the ability to be realistic and objective is the real path to change.

[Superman]

I expect to see improvement this season. There are some holes on this team (we knew that already), and it's going to take some time for the young players to get settled. But over the course of this season, we should be playing better overall than we played yesterday, and we should be better able to determine what needs to be fixed going into next year.

[Dustin]

Imagine if we could facepalm at presidential debates. Then our politicians wouldn't have to back up their arguments with intelligent thought out rebuttles...

That said, how do you see us being deep in the playoffs next year? Whom do you see us drafting or acquiring to make this happen? Why facepalm the list above? If we had any 2 of those guys we'd be in better shape than we are now.

Optimism is good, but the ability to be realistic and objective is the real path to change.

[BleedBlu8792]

I thought building the monster would have meant being able to both run the ball and stop the run. Our two most glaring defects as a team aside from our secondary.

There is no Polian to blame now.

I would have loved to see any of these names on our roster right now:

Trent Richardson

Doug Martin

David Wilson

Luke Kuechly

Zach Brown

Courtney Upshaw

Any two of these guys would have gone a long way towards "building the monster". Looks like we'll have the #1 pick again next year and some cap space, so we should be phenominal by 2014.

Secondary? They are fine. It was not generating a pass rush in the middle to late part of the game that didn't help them. On top of that, sitting them in zone coverage didn't help them either. The defense did the best they could yesterday while being on the field for nearly 60% of the game because the offense couldn't sustain anything early on. The "glaring" defect yesterday was the O-line. Luck was pressured way too much.

NONE of those players would help this team right NOW. Running backs and Line Backers? Umm.. how about O-line? Honestly just a solid guard for the right side would do wonders right now. Justice wasn't even that bad yesterday, at least up until Linkenstink came in. It was the absence of Reitz that hurt the left side and McGoober on the right side that killed the line.

Just out of curiosity, did you even watch the game?

[Coltsman1788]

Well, I don't have a problem with year one issues. But I doubt 3 are needed. With the cap space next season and relatively few holes to fill (oline & NT), I think high expectations for next season are warranted.

I totally agree. I really do not think this is a 3 yr. process. Like you said, we have an enormous amount of cap space next season. More than enough to completely fill all the holes we need to fill and add depth where needed. That along with the draft(even though as of right now we don't have many picks), I fully expect to be right back in the mix for playoff contention next season and possibly even a shot at a deep run into the playoffs. Time will tell, but I think we are headed exactly where we need to go.

Yeah...we can have differing opinions on how long the rebuild should take. For the record, I'd prefer you guys to be right! Three years is just my estimate but it could happen sooner or God forbid even take longer depending on how things play out. Although we have alot of cap space next offseason, throwing money at problems does not guarantee success. I expect that some moves will work while others won't. After Year 2, we should have a pretty good idea of what we have and where we still need to get better in order to go where we want to go. So I still see that offseason preceding Year 3 as pretty essential to the building process.

[Hemlock633]

"Don't be distracted by comparing everything that happens here to what is occuring in D.C. or even Denver for that matter"

Coltsman- Glad to see someone raise that point because I think those two games WERE a distraction for us. Lots of us were switching over to see if RG3 was struggling like Luck was but no, he's out there leading the Redskins to a huge win IN New Orleans. It's understandable to wonder if the Colts made a mistake in taking Luck over RG. It's just one game, who knows? Then to top it off, last night we watch as Peyton Manning takes apart the Steelers defense as though he hadn't missed a game. Glad to see it but still it hurts as a fan. We were all told he would never be able to play like that again. It's like watching an ex-lover move on with someone else, looking happier and healthier. We got used to being winners and now it hurts to be on the outside looking in. It was just the perfect storm yesterday-opening day, RG3, the one we didn't pick, and Peyton, the one we let go- both led their teams to great victories while our team looked mediocre at best.Probably wouldn't feel as bad today if RG and Peyton had each thrown 3 INTs and lost their games too.

[BleedingBlue]

Secondary? They are fine. It was not generating a pass rush in the middle to late part of the game that didn't help them. On top of that, sitting them in zone coverage didn't help them either. The defense did the best they could yesterday while being on the field for nearly 60% of the game because the offense couldn't sustain anything early on. The "glaring" defect yesterday was the O-line. Luck was pressured way too much.

NONE of those players would help this team right NOW. Running backs and Line Backers? Umm.. how about O-line? Honestly just a solid guard for the right side would do wonders right now. Justice wasn't even that bad yesterday, at least up until Linkenstink came in. It was the absence of Reitz that hurt the left side and McGoober on the right side that killed the line.

Just out of curiosity, did you even watch the game?

Oh, if you read my reply to the OL talent vs time thread going on right now (or read any of my threads from the last 24 months) you'd see that I have been advocating a real OL since Manning was taking snaps and Caldwell was calling plays.

If you look at our OL stats from 2010 you would think they were servicable but it was mannings 2.3-2.8 sec release that masked the ineptness.

There is no doubt we need an OL, but you can't drop back 45 times even with the best OLine and not get your ears pinned back.

Yes the texas 7v7 leagues are turning the NFL into a pass happy league, but you STILL need to run the ball and stop the run if you want to win.

The ability to run the ball isn't just on the O-line. I've seen some weakness in our backfield. If you haven't then you're not watching the same games I am.

[BleedBlu8792]

Oh, if you read my reply to the OL talent vs time thread going on right now (or read any of my threads from the last 24 months) you'd see that I have been advocating a real OL since Manning was taking snaps and Caldwell was calling plays.

If you look at our OL stats from 2010 you would think they were servicable but it was mannings 2.3-2.8 sec release that masked the ineptness.

There is no doubt we need an OL, but you can't drop back 45 times even with the best OLine and not get your ears pinned back.

Yes the texas 7v7 leagues are turning the NFL into a pass happy league, but you STILL need to run the ball and stop the run if you want to win.

The ability to run the ball isn't just on the O-line. I've seen some weakness in our backfield. If you haven't then you're not watching the same games I am.

The Colts allowed 114 net yards rushing with an avg of 3.5 yards. Forte's 32 yard run completely skewed the stats and made it better than it actually was. The Colts actually held up in run D. To further that, the Colts had 63 net yards rushing for an avg of 4.5 yards. Sure, Donald had 2 big runs, but the Colts only ran the ball half of what the Bears did. I would bet had the Colts ran 30 times they would have out produced the Bears. However, being put behind early caused the would be carries into passes instead. On top of that even with a worn out D they still did VERY WELL against a premier rushing team. I will take 114 yards and 3.5ypc from this team every week.

Again, NONE of those RB's would fair better on this team right NOW. I think our RBBC will be fine once they can get some consistency on the O-line.

[Balzer40]

Imagine if we could facepalm at presidential debates. Then our politicians wouldn't have to back up their arguments with intelligent thought out rebuttles...

That said, how do you see us being deep in the playoffs next year? Whom do you see us drafting or acquiring to make this happen? Why facepalm the list above? If we had any 2 of those guys we'd be in better shape than we are now.

Optimism is good, but the ability to be realistic and objective is the real path to change.

If you think the players you listed above would instantly make us better than we are now, then you deserve a much bigger facepalm than I can give on this forum. If you honestly believe RB is the problem, then you have no idea what you're talking about, sorry, but thats just the truth. RB isn't even close to being the problem and adding a LBer isn't going to do much of anything either. Our LBer's have been playing fine so once again, LBer.....not the problem. Not even close.

[BleedingBlue]

I saw 115 yards and think that's mediocre or average...not great. I also saw 3 rushing touchdowns, a run for 33 yards and 2 for 20+. So I guess we just have different expectations of what the monster should be.

[esmort]

I thought building the monster would have meant being able to both run the ball and stop the run. Our two most glaring defects as a team aside from our secondary.

There is no Polian to blame now.

I would have loved to see any of these names on our roster right now:

Trent Richardson

Doug Martin

David Wilson

Luke Kuechly

Zach Brown

Courtney Upshaw

Any two of these guys would have gone a long way towards "building the monster". Looks like we'll have the #1 pick again next year and some cap space, so we should be phenominal by 2014.

Very negative outlook, and that is a terrible list ... LB and RB are arguably 2 of our better positions. How about OL and DL instead; none of those RBs you listed would have been doing anything behind our terrible OL.

[Superman]

Very negative outlook, and that is a terrible list ... LB and RB are arguably 2 of our better positions. How about OL and DL instead; none of those RBs you listed would have been doing anything behind our terrible OL.

Yeah, not to mention quarterback. If you draft Kuechly, Upshaw or Richardson, you don't draft Luck or Griffin. So you have a five star running back, linebacker or pass rusher, but you don't have a quarterback. Who would make that trade?

[buccolts]

Imagine if we could facepalm at presidential debates. Then our politicians wouldn't have to back up their arguments with intelligent thought out rebuttles...

That said, how do you see us being deep in the playoffs next year? Whom do you see us drafting or acquiring to make this happen? Why facepalm the list above? If we had any 2 of those guys we'd be in better shape than we are now.

Optimism is good, but the ability to be realistic and objective is the real path to change.

Well, if that's the effect, then I'm all for it.

Besides, you usually don't get an intelligent thought out rebuttle anyway.

That's why the term 'political' is a derogatory one.

Back to football?

That was one game.

This is year one.

I'm just looking for improvement.

Next year will be better, and we may very well be playoff contenders.

Am I going to expect it? No.

Am I going to call for heads if it doesn't happen? No.

Am I hopeful for it? Yep!

Let's see what's available, and what we get first.

The year after that, I may become anxious.

I'm O.K. with it taking 2-3 years to 'til I see the final Monster.

I remember 20, or so, years of waiting. That's painful.

Oh, and, BTW, I was encouraged by a lot of what I saw against the Bears.

Only thing that really stunk for me is that I live in Chicago.

[Nobody]

I know "Build the Monster" is exciting, but building a team to run and stop the run in a pass first, heck, pass first and second league is no way to win. I think we try and replicate the Texans with better WRs.

[deedub75]

Well, I don't have a problem with year one issues. But I doubt 3 are needed. With the cap space next season and relatively few holes to fill (oline & NT), I think high expectations for next season are warranted.

Year 2, even with the influx of free agents, will not be much better. There will be a mini-tear down after this season. Stopgaps will be removed and the team will be infused with new talent from free agency and the draft. There should also be a different defensive scheme. We're running some sort of hybrid defense because the personnel is not there for a 3-4. It's gonna take time for all of these new parts to gel. Year 2 will be a learning year with a vast improvement in year 3.

[seeblu]

I agree with the 3 year plan to have a competitive team contending in the playoffs. I was surprised the Colts could put up 21 points on that Bear defense. Should have been 24 points, but AV missed a very makeable FG. The Colts have brought in spare parts from every part of the NFL. There is no reason to believe they are going to be successful unless the opposition is of questionable talent. Give these players half a season and Colts fans may be surprised how well they are playing.

[drew22087]

I thought building the monster would have meant being able to both run the ball and stop the run. Our two most glaring defects as a team aside from our secondary.

There is no Polian to blame now.

I would have loved to see any of these names on our roster right now:

Trent Richardson

Doug Martin

David Wilson

Luke Kuechly

Zach Brown

Courtney Upshaw

Any two of these guys would have gone a long way towards "building the monster". Looks like we'll have the #1 pick again next year and some cap space, so we should be phenominal by 2014.

The only one I agree with is Upshaw just because he was available before we picked Fleener. Thats not saying I dont want Fleener but thats just who I was hoping for. With Freeney and Mathis having maybe a few more great years left I would of liked Upshaw as a replacement.

[ColtStrong]

"Don't be distracted by comparing everything that happens here to what is occuring in D.C. or even Denver for that matter"

Coltsman- Glad to see someone raise that point because I think those two games WERE a distraction for us. Lots of us were switching over to see if RG3 was struggling like Luck was but no, he's out there leading the Redskins to a huge win IN New Orleans. It's understandable to wonder if the Colts made a mistake in taking Luck over RG. It's just one game, who knows? Then to top it off, last night we watch as Peyton Manning takes apart the Steelers defense as though he hadn't missed a game. Glad to see it but still it hurts as a fan. We were all told he would never be able to play like that again. It's like watching an ex-lover move on with someone else, looking happier and healthier. We got used to being winners and now it hurts to be on the outside looking in. It was just the perfect storm yesterday-opening day, RG3, the one we didn't pick, and Peyton, the one we let go- both led their teams to great victories while our team looked mediocre at best.Probably wouldn't feel as bad today if RG and Peyton had each thrown 3 INTs and lost their games too.

Leaf looked real good in his first game too. Manning not so much. Just sayin.

[Buck Showalter]

I thought building the monster would have meant being able to both run the ball and stop the run. Our two most glaring defects as a team aside from our secondary.

There is no Polian to blame now.

I would have loved to see any of these names on our roster right now:

Trent Richardson

Doug Martin

David Wilson

Luke Kuechly

Zach Brown

Courtney Upshaw

Any two of these guys would have gone a long way towards "building the monster". Looks like we'll have the #1 pick again next year and some cap space, so we should be phenominal by 2014.

it'd be awesome to have the first ten picks in the draft...

[jbaron04]

Well, I don't have a problem with year one issues. But I doubt 3 are needed. With the cap space next season and relatively few holes to fill (oline & NT), I think high expectations for next season are warranted.

I think we should next offseason go after jake long or ryan clady for lt slide constanzo to rt pick of t.j Lang to play g if ijalana can't stay healthy and the oline if fix right there

[inviolable]

Honestly I had the same exact idea as the Op, I saw us taking a corner in the first round though. That was before the Davis trade and although I still think we go secondary it won't be until the 2nd round. I see us picking up an ot in free agency and another in the draft then plug in defensive line and linebacker with best available.

[JustAColtsFan]

I know "Build the Monster" is exciting, but building a team to run and stop the run in a pass first, heck, pass first and second league is no way to win. I think we try and replicate the Texans with better WRs.

You still have to be able to run the ball and stop the run. If no one ran the ball all defenses would have to do is send 8 or 9 guys rushing the passer every down - even Manning can't release a ball that fast. Running the ball reliably keeps the defenses honest and opens up the passing game. You don't have to be a "Great" running team just able to pick up 3 or four yards per run.

[BleedingBlue]

Yeah, not to mention quarterback. If you draft Kuechly, Upshaw or Richardson, you don't draft Luck or Griffin. So you have a five star running back, linebacker or pass rusher, but you don't have a quarterback. Who would make that trade?

The same guy who didn't release Manning, but instead restructured his deal. With the trades for the pick we would have gotten a quality RB, a LB and probably a decent tackle and guard along with a decent Backup.

At this pace by the time all the pieces are in place here Luck will be injured or have his ego demolished and even if he is the lone highlight here, he will still want to get paid in 4 years, right?

Its all about rebuilding around your ONE constant. Not blowing away your constant and replacing it with yet another variable. You turn all your variables into constants and then you replace your aging constant.

[BleedingBlue]

double post sorry

[gspdx]

I thought building the monster would have meant being able to both run the ball and stop the run. Our two most glaring defects as a team aside from our secondary.

The word 'building' implies it's a work in progress. If it was done it would be 'built'. Relax and give it some time. We had a bad financial situation that needed to be worked out and it will be worked out in one short year. I think that is pretty impressive. We have some pieces on this team but it is by no means done. People have be expressing concerns about our o and d lines all pre-season and you need both to be able to stop the run and run the ball.

So next year we will have some money to play in free agency and pick up a few good guys. I'm not necessarily saying superstars, but quality starting guys. And we should still have some draft picks. But that doesn't mean we will be competing for a SB next year either. Building a winning program isn't easy. If it was the Dolphins, Browns, Raiders, Seahawks, Bills, Jags, etc, etc would all be winners right now.

[HungarianColtsFan]

"Don't be distracted by comparing everything that happens here to what is occuring in D.C. or even Denver for that matter"

Coltsman- Glad to see someone raise that point because I think those two games WERE a distraction for us. Lots of us were switching over to see if RG3 was struggling like Luck was but no, he's out there leading the Redskins to a huge win IN New Orleans. It's understandable to wonder if the Colts made a mistake in taking Luck over RG. It's just one game, who knows? Then to top it off, last night we watch as Peyton Manning takes apart the Steelers defense as though he hadn't missed a game. Glad to see it but still it hurts as a fan. We were all told he would never be able to play like that again. It's like watching an ex-lover move on with someone else, looking happier and healthier. We got used to being winners and now it hurts to be on the outside looking in. It was just the perfect storm yesterday-opening day, RG3, the one we didn't pick, and Peyton, the one we let go- both led their teams to great victories while our team looked mediocre at best.Probably wouldn't feel as bad today if RG and Peyton had each thrown 3 INTs and lost their games too.

Don't be distracted! RGIII or even Manning would have struggled against Bears. Bears' D-line is definitely better than Saints', especially against passing. Furthermore both RG and Manning work with a ready-product O-line, meanwhile ours is semi-prepared at best.

Drafting Luck wasn't a mistake, was a very logical first step in building an SB-contender team.

Edited September 12, 2012 by HungarianColtsFan

[braveheartcolt]

The same guy who didn't release Manning, but instead restructured his deal. With the trades for the pick we would have gotten a quality RB, a LB and probably a decent tackle and guard along with a decent Backup.

At this pace by the time all the pieces are in place here Luck will be injured or have his ego demolished and even if he is the lone highlight here, he will still want to get paid in 4 years, right?

Its all about rebuilding around your ONE constant. Not blowing away your constant and replacing it with yet another variable. You turn all your variables into constants and then you replace your aging constant.

KABOOM. I was counting down the posts to see when the 'M' word appeared. You did not let me down.

[Superman]

The same guy who didn't release Manning, but instead restructured his deal. With the trades for the pick we would have gotten a quality RB, a LB and probably a decent tackle and guard along with a decent Backup.

At this pace by the time all the pieces are in place here Luck will be injured or have his ego demolished and even if he is the lone highlight here, he will still want to get paid in 4 years, right?

Its all about rebuilding around your ONE constant. Not blowing away your constant and replacing it with yet another variable. You turn all your variables into constants and then you replace your aging constant.

There was no restructuring Manning's deal at that point. It simply was not possible, due to the CBA rules about when a contract has to be renegotiated by. Because the option bonus was due in the 2011 league year, any renegotiation would have had to be done before the last game of 2011 was played. By Manning's own admission, at that time, his throws were awful and no one knew whether he'd be back or not. Restructuring just wasn't an option at that time.

There are questions about the initial structure of the contract (one I have in particular about the maximum allowable roster bonus, which could have eased the burden of Manning's contract in future years; I haven't had a satisfactory answer to that yet). Maybe Polian and Irsay could have done a better job structuring the contract. I question the rationale behind a massive option bonus in before Year 2 that didn't provide the team with any financial security ($26 million Year 1) or salary cap relief. Perhaps the issue was with the so-called guaranteed money on the deal, but that could have been handled much better than it was. The more I learn about contract structure, the more bizarre this contract seems to me.

As for trading the pick and retooling around Manning, that was one way to go, but Manning was NOT a constant. Still isn't. He looks incredibly good, and I'd bet on him at this point; I couldn't have said the same in March. I don't know how eager I am to have this discussion again, but criticizing the decision to move on at this point is necessarily going to include revisionist history. We have the benefit of hindsight now. I'm as big a Manning fan as anyone else, but we can't just pretend that there was no uncertainty about whether he'd be able to perform at a high level again. Add to that the fact that, eventually, we'd need a new quarterback, and I understand the decision to move on. I support it. I might not have done the same thing, I can't say for sure. But I'm not going to criticize Irsay for his course of action. I think what he's done is a sign of strong and determined ownership, and I think it will pay off in his favor.

As it pertains to Luck's contract, yes, he'll be getting paid big money in the future. That's what you do when you have a really good quarterback. The argument for moving on from Manning was never about how much money he made. You pay your quarterback whatever it takes, and you figure out the rest along the way. The new rookie pay scale just gives you a reprieve up front, but it's temporary.

I disagree that he's going to be broken in four years, physically or otherwise. And I disagree with the idea that he'll be the lone highlight. You don't need to draft a bunch of first round talent in one year in order to put good players around your quarterback. We did a good job in the draft, and we have a ton of cap space next season. Assuming that Luck will never have any help is just being a prisoner of the moment.

[BleedingBlue]

I think we can agree on the restructuring being a big black hole of we'll never know. There were loopholes to the CBA, but thats a huge What If, i'll agree.

For the record, I would have (and was willing to) bet on Manning in March just as much as I will bet on him now, and my stance hasn't waivered on this since we were all starting to be split on what to do about Manning. Critisizing the move is what I've been doing since BEFORE the move, so its hard to stop especially when its appearing my gut was right all along.

I think you are the one person on these boards that is trully objective as to our current state of affairs so I don't need to tell you that there are still a lot of "ifs" right now. We'll have to see how this plays out, but I certainly don't like the play calling that makes it seem like the coaches don't see the weaknesses the FO have burdened them with.

Finally, I'll stop complaining when this team can stop the run and run the football. ;)

[Gavin]

I know "Build the Monster" is exciting, but building a team to run and stop the run in a pass first, heck, pass first and second league is no way to win. I think we try and replicate the Texans with better WRs.

we have a few good wide receivers, Honestly I'd love to get another tall speed receiver that can develop over Reggie Wayne but if your defense cant stop the run or your offensive line cant block (almost anything) then both those come first, Look at Stephen Hill he isnt the best technically sound WR yet he is tall and has speed who also can develop into a potentially great wide receiver, I know he went early but others that were tall and fast went in the later rounds as well and can be found in FA, another one is Malcolm Floyd in FA next year who is a deep threat BUT they shouldnt be top priority but I'd love to kick the tires on Floyd even though he is 31

[chad72]

I thought building the monster would have meant being able to both run the ball and stop the run. Our two most glaring defects as a team aside from our secondary.

There is no Polian to blame now.

I would have loved to see any of these names on our roster right now:

Trent Richardson

Doug Martin

David Wilson

Luke Kuechly

Zach Brown

Courtney Upshaw

Any two of these guys would have gone a long way towards "building the monster". Looks like we'll have the #1 pick again next year and some cap space, so we should be phenominal by 2014.

Yeah, add that OG Cordy Glenn from Georgia to this list who plays RT now. C.J.Spiller did run for a gazillion yards on the road, right???

Just steal Eben Britton from the Jags in the offseason with some cash.

[Superman]

I think we can agree on the restructuring being a big black hole of we'll never know. There were loopholes to the CBA, but thats a huge What If, i'll agree.

For the record, I would have (and was willing to) bet on Manning in March just as much as I will bet on him now, and my stance hasn't waivered on this since we were all starting to be split on what to do about Manning. Critisizing the move is what I've been doing since BEFORE the move, so its hard to stop especially when its appearing my gut was right all along.

I think you are the one person on these boards that is trully objective as to our current state of affairs so I don't need to tell you that there are still a lot of "ifs" right now. We'll have to see how this plays out, but I certainly don't like the play calling that makes it seem like the coaches don't see the weaknesses the FO have burdened them with.

Finally, I'll stop complaining when this team can stop the run and run the football. ;)

Fair enough. Plenty disagreed with the decision at the time. The problem is coming up with a viable alternative option. Just riding it out with Manning was a huge roll of the dice.

I'll also say that, as good as Manning looks right now, this nerve issue isn't necessarily behind him. He tried to address it before the 2010 season, and was right back on the operating table in 2011. It could pop back up, which is why the Broncos structured his contract the way they did.

The offensive playcalling is a huge problem right now. I'm not so worried about running the ball as a huge part of the offense; I'm more concerned about situational running. And I think we have some work to do in that area, for sure. But if we can protect the quarterback, not just with better line play, but with smart playcalling and protections that make up for the line deficiencies, then we can be effective in the passing game without getting the quarterback killed.

Something I meant to mention before is how Aaron Rodgers and the Packers line looked in his first two years as a starter. He was sacked 84 times. It actually got worse in his second year, when they made the playoffs. It was poor protection and his holding on to the ball too long that cost them a playoff overtime game against the Cardinals. His spirit wasn't broken; they won the Super Bowl the next season, and then he won MVP the season after that. And they still have protection issues. I'm not worried about Luck. I don't want him to get hurt, but I'm especially unconcerned with him getting beat into submission like David Carr did. First of all, he's more talented than Carr was, and secondly, I trust that our coaches will make adjustments to keep him out of harm's way. Perhaps I'm naive, but I believe they see what we see, and know what we know.

[#12]

The offensive playcalling is a huge problem right now. I'm not so worried about running the ball as a huge part of the offense; I'm more concerned about situational running. And I think we have some work to do in that area, for sure. But if we can protect the quarterback, not just with better line play, but with smart playcalling and protections that make up for the line deficiencies, then we can be effective in the passing game without getting the quarterback killed.

Absolutely right.