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gnet550

Take two- free agent edition

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we also have the draft you know and we have tons of money to work with so we can sign one or two big priced FAs and I included an OT, CB, and, S. yes bowe is a luxury pick and not a need, but wayne isnt getting any younger and everyone on here has always wanted a big tall physical wr and that fits bowe

 

 

Well, I wouldn't say "everyone on here" wants a big tall physical receiver. I'm not included in on that, not that I flat out reject the idea, but I do think its a little over rated. We do have a very tall TE(who in my opinion) is much more like a WR and we don't utilize his size at all. We have a physical TE in Allen that can fill the role of that physical receiver.

 

I just do not want to waste resources on a position that were already pretty stacked at. Luck has the weapons, now he needs the protection and a stronger defense to get the ball back in his hands. I think people are always obsessed with the offensive skill positions but are willing to ignore the trenches.

 

We discussed yesterday, we aren't going to spend every dime we have. We need money for draft picks, to resign some of our own free agents, and need money left in the tank for emergencies that come up during the season. I would guess that would take somewhere in the 10-12 million dollar range.

 

That would leave around 31 to 33 million dollars left. I think by the time they fill the needs on O-line, add a good CB, a good safety, and a good OLBer to replace Freeney, there would not be even close to what we would need to sign a guy like Bowe, Wallace, or any other high dollar WR. 

 

Our money still needs to be spent wisely even though we have a bunch of it this offseason. Spending that money on a position that isn't a need is irresponsible and doesn't help the team in the short or long term.

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Well, I wouldn't say "everyone on here" wants a big tall physical receiver. I'm not included in on that, not that I flat out reject the idea, but I do think its a little over rated. We do have a very tall TE(who in my opinion) is much more like a WR and we don't utilize his size at all. We have a physical TE in Allen that can fill the role of that physical receiver.

 

I just do not want to waste resources on a position that were already pretty stacked at. Luck has the weapons, now he needs the protection and a stronger defense to get the ball back in his hands. I think people are always obsessed with the offensive skill positions but are willing to ignore the trenches.

 

We discussed yesterday, we aren't going to spend every dime we have. We need money for draft picks, to resign some of our own free agents, and need money left in the tank for emergencies that come up during the season. I would guess that would take somewhere in the 10-12 million dollar range.

 

That would leave around 31 to 33 million dollars left. I think by the time they fill the needs on O-line, add a good CB, a good safety, and a good OLBer to replace Freeney, there would not be even close to what we would need to sign a guy like Bowe, Wallace, or any other high dollar WR. 

 

Our money still needs to be spent wisely even though we have a bunch of it this offseason. Spending that money on a position that isn't a need is irresponsible and doesn't help the team in the short or long term.

 

a lot of our FAs are no name FAs that we picked up off the streets. only mcafee, powers, and butler I expect to resign. you wanna talk long term. what do you expect will happen in 2 years when wayne's contract is up and hes 36 and over the hill. bowe is no spring chicken but hes still young enough to be our future number one for a good 5 years. im not saying we dont have other needs, but this is not the time to be conservative and just rely on luck's god given ability thats what burned us with manning. we give this kid all the help we can get. like I said we have money to get one or two big priced FAs like bowe and clady and we can still go after talented guys like byrd and drc which wouldnt cost us as much.

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Love Levitre but maybe a risk given that he plays a zone system? Vasquez is much safer and fits our system with his physicality. I'd go with Volmer as the other big name. I'd love to see Mike Wallace in this offense but doubt that happens.

 

If we took Vasquez and Volmer then I'm sure we would have room for another big name, so I'd definitely take Williams. This would leave us in really good shape going into the draft.

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a lot of our FAs are no name FAs that we picked up off the streets. only mcafee, powers, and butler I expect to resign. you wanna talk long term. what do you expect will happen in 2 years when wayne's contract is up and hes 36 and over the hill. bowe is no spring chicken but hes still young enough to be our future number one for a good 5 years. im not saying we dont have other needs, but this is not the time to be conservative and just rely on luck's god given ability thats what burned us with manning. we give this kid all the help we can get. like I said we have money to get one or two big priced FAs like bowe and clady and we can still go after talented guys like byrd and drc which wouldnt cost us as much.

 

 

First of all, Clady isn't going anywhere. They have already said he'll be franchised. Secondly, I guess were just going to have to agree to disagree. IMO, we won't even entertain the idea of signing a big name WR. Grigson knows just how badly this O-line needs to be overhauled and I think that is where the majority of the money will be spent. Somebody will need to replace Freeney because IMO there will be no intention of bringing him back.

 

I also think there will be several other resigned than just McAfee, Powers, and Butler. I for one, don't even think Powers will be resigned. Vaughn will be resigned before Powers simply because he can stay healthy and Powers can not. I look for Mookie, Teveseu, Moala, Linkenbach, Justice, Reitz just to name a few to all be resigned at least for depth.

 

There is plenty of time to find a replacement for Wayne, it simply is not going to be a priority this yr.. 

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First of all, Clady isn't going anywhere. They have already said he'll be franchised. Secondly, I guess were just going to have to agree to disagree. IMO, we won't even entertain the idea of signing a big name WR. Grigson knows just how badly this O-line needs to be overhauled and I think that is where the majority of the money will be spent. Somebody will need to replace Freeney because IMO there will be no intention of bringing him back.

 

I also think there will be several other resigned than just McAfee, Powers, and Butler. I for one, don't even think Powers will be resigned. Vaughn will be resigned before Powers simply because he can stay healthy and Powers can not. I look for Mookie, Teveseu, Moala, Linkenbach, Justice, Reitz just to name a few to all be resigned at least for depth.

 

There is plenty of time to find a replacement for Wayne, it simply is not going to be a priority this yr.. 

 

well if we cant get clady we can go after long. a lot of the FAs you named are like you said depth purposes. their not gonna cost much to resign. I for one we not be satisfied with making the playoffs and only winning one champion like with manning because they relied so much on manning getting things down with mediocre talent. I have no problem with fixing the line, but also give this kid more talent. 

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well if we cant get clady we can go after long. a lot of the FAs you named are like you said depth purposes. their not gonna cost much to resign. I for one we not be satisfied with making the playoffs and only winning one champion like with manning because they relied so much on manning getting things down with mediocre talent. I have no problem with fixing the line, but also give this kid more talent. 

 

 

No, they relied on giving Manning crap talent everywhere but the skill positions Manning always had good receivers and RB's till later on in his career here. You are making my point though and don't even realize it. The reason why Manning only got 1 championship is because Polian ignored the trenches and always gave him a crap defense. We have plenty of talent with our receiving corps. what we don't have is a great O-line or a good defense. Build up those areas and stop wasting so much of the cap on skill positions like Polian did and Luck will have a much better team and a much better chance at winning championships.

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No, they relied on giving Manning crap talent everywhere but the skill positions Manning always had good receivers and RB's till later on in his career here. You are making my point though and don't even realize it. The reason why Manning only got 1 championship is because Polian ignored the trenches and always gave him a crap defense. We have plenty of talent with our receiving corps. what we don't have is a great O-line or a good defense. Build up those areas and stop wasting so much of the cap on skill positions like Polian did and Luck will have a much better team and a much better chance at winning championships.

 

its not that we didnt try to build the o-line polian just sucked at it. he himself said he didnt know how to evaluate an o-lineman. you really look at the toys peyton had wayne, harrison, james, clark, stokley after that there isnt anything left. in the polian era we were never players in FA. we always overpaid our own mediocre FAs

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its not that we didnt try to build the o-line polian just sucked at it. he himself said he didnt know how to evaluate an o-lineman. you really look at the toys peyton had wayne, harrison, james, clark, stokley after that there isnt anything left. in the polian era we were never players in FA. we always overpaid our own mediocre FAs

 

 

 

Thats very true, but it has always been my belief that it is much easier to win championships if you have a great O-line and a good defense. The reason why Brady has been so successful over the yrs. is because he had those things. It's not because he had great receivers, its because he all day long to stand in the pocket and pick teams apart, they could run the ball, and when he was winning championships, they had a very good defense. When they started losing their defensive prowess and their O-line started to age, he hasn't won a thing. Luck has all the weapons he needs right now, if we fix the o-line and strengthen the defense, we could very well compete for a SB next yr..

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if we were to take a OG OT S CB on FA i wouldnt rule out a WR with our 3rd. or next years 1st might be used on  WR. we cant fill everything in just 1 FA calm down

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Thats very true, but it has always been my belief that it is much easier to win championships if you have a great O-line and a good defense. The reason why Brady has been so successful over the yrs. is because he had those things. It's not because he had great receivers, its because he all day long to stand in the pocket and pick teams apart, they could run the ball, and when he was winning championships, they had a very good defense. When they started losing their defensive prowess and their O-line started to age, he hasn't won a thing. Luck has all the weapons he needs right now, if we fix the o-line and strengthen the defense, we could very well compete for a SB next yr..

 

im not saying I dont want to build the o-line because I do what im saying is we can do both. we can fix the line and get him talent along with getting some defensive players through FAs and the draft. we have the money. lets use it to build a championship team

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I think Bethea could play SS. Idk though. If he can't, then we should just take Kenny Vaccaro, Matt Elam, or Rambo in the Draft with our 1st Pick

 

Personally, I think we have bigger needs elsewhere.  Granted, if they feel right about a certain safety and decide that's who they're bringing in, I am all for it.

 

I'd rather see another CB (opposite Vontae), an DE opposite Redding, 1 or 2 guards, a WR prospect to groom as Wayne's replacement, a LB to replace Freeney (if he goes).  I just figure with Zbikowski, Lefeged, and perhaps another FA pickup, our secondary will be fine. We give up far too many rushing yards, and need a legitimate front 3.  Hopefully Chapman can be a key contributor for us, and perhaps McKinney can as well.  But I dunno that our worst spot is safety.

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So if you pay Freeney $14 Million for 12 tackles and 5 sacks...

What would you pay a guy like FA Connor Barwin for his 31 tackles and 3 sacks? $12Million? Good grief!

Clady or Jake Long = Clueless. Agree that Buffalo will keep Byrd & LeVitre.

We HAVE TO get a Pass Rusher & an O-Lineman. Period.

#1 OLB Anthony Spencer or Michael Johnson not a OLB but his rushing and setting the edge YES. Paul Kruger.

#2. OL Jermon Bushrod LT 4.5 sacks 1 Hold 5 false starts.

Louis Vasquez OG No Penalties in 2012 2.5 sacks.

Vollmer RT 1 hold 1 false start 1 xxx 5.5 sacks.

Have to see what is going on with:

LaRon Landry.

Andre Smith Bengals RT gave up 7.5 sacks at RT.

Castonzo 1 hold 1 false start 11 sacks!!!!!

Justice 1 hold 4 false starts 3.5 sacks.

Linkenbk 1 pen 3.5 sacks.

McGlynn 1 false start 4.5 sacks.

Olson 2 holds 1.5 sacks.

Reitz 1 hold 0 sacks.

Satelle 2 pen 5.5 sacks.

Shipley 0 pen 0 sacks.

Jake Long 2 holds 1 FS 7 sacks in 12 games.

Ryan Clady 4 holds 2 FS 1 sack.

Matt Kalil 2 FS 5.5 sacks.

Russell Okung 3 holds 7 FS 2 sacks.

Nate Solder 1 hold 2 FS 3.5 sacks.

Joe Stailey 3 holds 2 FS 7 sacks.

Joe Thomas 4 holds 4 FS 4.5 sacks.

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So if you pay Freeney $14 Million for 12 tackles and 5 sacks...

What would you pay a guy like FA Connor Barwin for his 31 tackles and 3 sacks? $12Million? Good grief!

Clady or Jake Long = Clueless. Agree that Buffalo will keep Byrd & LeVitre.

We HAVE TO get a Pass Rusher & an O-Lineman. Period.

#1 OLB Anthony Spencer or Michael Johnson not a OLB but his rushing and setting the edge YES. Paul Kruger.

#2. OL Jermon Bushrod LT 4.5 sacks 1 Hold 5 false starts.

Louis Vasquez OG No Penalties in 2012 2.5 sacks.

Vollmer RT 1 hold 1 false start 1 xxx 5.5 sacks.

Have to see what is going on with:

LaRon Landry.

Andre Smith Bengals RT gave up 7.5 sacks at RT.

Castonzo 1 hold 1 false start 11 sacks!!!!!

Justice 1 hold 4 false starts 3.5 sacks.

Linkenbk 1 pen 3.5 sacks.

McGlynn 1 false start 4.5 sacks.

Olson 2 holds 1.5 sacks.

Reitz 1 hold 0 sacks.

Satelle 2 pen 5.5 sacks.

Shipley 0 pen 0 sacks.

Jake Long 2 holds 1 FS 7 sacks in 12 games.

Ryan Clady 4 holds 2 FS 1 sack.

Matt Kalil 2 FS 5.5 sacks.

Russell Okung 3 holds 7 FS 2 sacks.

Nate Solder 1 hold 2 FS 3.5 sacks.

Joe Stailey 3 holds 2 FS 7 sacks.

Joe Thomas 4 holds 4 FS 4.5 sacks.

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bowe would be a beast in our offense. bowe has been getting it done with no QB imagine what he can do with luck as his QB

not disagreeing at all he is a beast but with reitz Olsen and link at gaurd he won't have time to get the ball to bowe
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not disagreeing at all he is a beast but with reitz Olsen and link at gaurd he won't have time to get the ball to bowe

 

 

Thats exactly why we won't go after Bowe/Wallace or any other big name WR. We'll spend the money on O-line and a few positions on defense. I really wish Grigson would just come out and tell everybody that WR isn't on the shopping list this offseason. I know he won't but it would put an end to all these, "lets sign insert WR" posts. It just won't happen IMO.

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not disagreeing at all he is a beast but with reitz Olsen and link at gaurd he won't have time to get the ball to bowe

 

we can fix the line and get bowe. we have plenty of money to address our needs not to mention the draft as well

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we can fix the line and get bowe. we have plenty of money to address our needs not to mention the draft as well

 

 

I think you maybe underestimating just how much it would take to sign Bowe. There is no doubt that we need at least 2 more good O-lineman and more likely 3. If we signed 3 good o-lineman at an average of 5 million per season for all 3(and thats a low estimate), then we signed what we need on defense(OLBer, CB, SS). Those 3 positions are going to take up around another 15 million or more. So were already up to 30 million, add in resigning some of our own FA's and signing draft picks, a conservative number for that is 10 million. Now were at 40 million. That would leave 3 million left in the emergency tank. Vincent Jackson got a 5 yr. 55 million dollar contract last offseason and Bowe is going to want something comparable to that. In other words, there isn't even close to the amount we would need to take care of Bowe after we fix the obvious area's of need.  

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I'm pretty sure Buffalo locked down Levitre about a week ago.

 

 

If they did, they know how to keep a good secret because there's no news of it anywhere.

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Personally, I think we have bigger needs elsewhere. Granted, if they feel right about a certain safety and decide that's who they're bringing in, I am all for it.

I'd rather see another CB (opposite Vontae), an DE opposite Redding, 1 or 2 guards, a WR prospect to groom as Wayne's replacement, a LB to replace Freeney (if he goes). I just figure with Zbikowski, Lefeged, and perhaps another FA pickup, our secondary will be fine. We give up far too many rushing yards, and need a legitimate front 3. Hopefully Chapman can be a key contributor for us, and perhaps McKinney can as well. But I dunno that our worst spot is safety.

Well we all know Safety isn't the worst. But with $40 million+ to our names, why not Splurge with it??

But we do need a more fearful & dangerous Pass Rush

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I think you maybe underestimating just how much it would take to sign Bowe. There is no doubt that we need at least 2 more good O-lineman and more likely 3. If we signed 3 good o-lineman at an average of 5 million per season for all 3(and thats a low estimate), then we signed what we need on defense(OLBer, CB, SS). Those 3 positions are going to take up around another 15 million or more. So were already up to 30 million, add in resigning some of our own FA's and signing draft picks, a conservative number for that is 10 million. Now were at 40 million. That would leave 3 million left in the emergency tank. Vincent Jackson got a 5 yr. 55 million dollar contract last offseason and Bowe is going to want something comparable to that. In other words, there isn't even close to the amount we would need to take care of Bowe after we fix the obvious area's of need.  

 

we dont another OLB. hughes can be productive as hes shown this season and we can always draft another one. the tackle and center positons are fine its the guard spot we need help in and ive already mentioned how we can improve our CB and S postion

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we dont another OLB. hughes can be productive as hes shown this season and we can always draft another one. the tackle and center positons are fine its the guard spot we need help in and ive already mentioned how we can improve our CB and S postion

 

 

 

We'll see, but if I was in the "lets sign this WR camp" I certainly wouldn't be very optimistic that it will happen. Like I said before, I don't think they'll even entertain the idea of signing a high dollar WR. Grigson said when he took the job that he wants to build a tough physical team in the trenches. Right now, were not even close to that and we have the money to change that this offseason. We could fix the core of the team for yrs. and yrs. to come this offseason. They can worry about skill positions later. I think thats why they drafted the way they did last yr. because this yr. is for shoring up the trenches and the defense in general.

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We'll see, but if I was in the "lets sign this WR camp" I certainly wouldn't be very optimistic that it will happen. Like I said before, I don't think they'll even entertain the idea of signing a high dollar WR. Grigson said when he took the job that he wants to build a tough physical team in the trenches. Right now, were not even close to that and we have the money to change that this offseason. We could fix the core of the team for yrs. and yrs. to come this offseason. They can worry about skill positions later. I think thats why they drafted the way they did last yr. because this yr. is for shoring up the trenches and the defense in general.

 

i guess we'll just have to wait and see. good argument though :thmup:

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before getting into FA i think we need to know what the heck is gonna happen with BA. if he leaves we have no idea what type of WR a projected OC would be looking at.

assumming he stays, im with Balzer, i think we are going OL OL OL and D. the only way i can see us after WR is if we were not to go after OLB and CB/S. Wallace is gonna demand the type of money that probably a S + CB would demmand

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No, they relied on giving Manning crap talent everywhere but the skill positions Manning always had good receivers and RB's till later on in his career here. You are making my point though and don't even realize it. The reason why Manning only got 1 championship is because Polian ignored the trenches and always gave him a crap defense. We have plenty of talent with our receiving corps. what we don't have is a great O-line or a good defense. Build up those areas and stop wasting so much of the cap on skill positions like Polian did and Luck will have a much better team and a much better chance at winning championships.

 

That's all true, but I think people also tend to overrate our current "weapons" a bit.  I didn't see many instances of receivers running wide open in 2012.  Luck was throwing into tight coverage on a high percentage of his throws.  Hopefully, with another year of experience, you will see receivers and TEs getting more separation.  A crafty-type, a safety valve in the slot would help tremendously IMO.   That said, it's true that O-line is priority #1, and you can use help throughout the defense. But it's good to keep in mind that not every acquisition who might help this team has to be expensive.    

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That's all true, but I think people also tend to overrate our current "weapons" a bit.  I didn't see many instances of receivers running wide open in 2012.  Luck was throwing into tight coverage on a high percentage of his throws.  Hopefully, with another year of experience, you will see receivers and TEs getting more separation.  A crafty-type, a safety valve in the slot would help tremendously IMO.   That said, it's true that O-line is priority #1, and you can use help throughout the defense. But it's good to keep in mind that not every acquisition who might help this team has to be expensive.    

 

 

When people are talking about adding Bowe or Wallace though, those are very expensive options and IMO completely unnecessary. Im not over rating our weapons, I'm just of the belief that they have the talent to get the job done if Luck has more time to make better throws and go through his progressions.

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If there's premium Olineman on the market we need to get as many of them as we can.

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Andrew is LOADED with Excellent receiving options NOW.

We have 8-9 Spots that Require upgrading ASAP. With an ELITE passer you shouldn`t have to spend top dollat for receivers.

We got rid of that guy.

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Andrew is LOADED with Excellent receiving options NOW.

We have 8-9 Spots that Require upgrading ASAP. With an ELITE passer you shouldn`t have to spend top dollat for receivers.

We got rid of that guy.

 

the 7 drops would beg to differ on you on that one

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If they did, they know how to keep a good secret because there's no news of it anywhere

 

 

Theer was a report on Roto News from a Buffalo writer that stated that Levitre wanted to test the market. I believe the franchise price for a guard is pretty high . Byrd will def be franchised if he doesn't sign an extension as the price is only around 6.2 mill. So on one hand you have a no brainer with Byrd and with Levitre you have a different situation as the price is over 9 mill for offensive lineman. Not sure if different for G's and T's as evefrything I find just says OL. But you get the idea.

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So if you pay Freeney $14 Million for 12 tackles and 5 sacks...

What would you pay a guy like FA Connor Barwin for his 31 tackles and 3 sacks? $12Million? Good grief!

Clady or Jake Long = Clueless. Agree that Buffalo will keep Byrd & LeVitre.

We HAVE TO get a Pass Rusher & an O-Lineman. Period.

#1 OLB Anthony Spencer or Michael Johnson not a OLB but his rushing and setting the edge YES. Paul Kruger.

#2. OL Jermon Bushrod LT 4.5 sacks 1 Hold 5 false starts.

Louis Vasquez OG No Penalties in 2012 2.5 sacks.

Vollmer RT 1 hold 1 false start 1 xxx 5.5 sacks.

Have to see what is going on with:

LaRon Landry.

Andre Smith Bengals RT gave up 7.5 sacks at RT.

Castonzo 1 hold 1 false start 11 sacks!!!!!

Justice 1 hold 4 false starts 3.5 sacks.

Linkenbk 1 pen 3.5 sacks.

McGlynn 1 false start 4.5 sacks.

Olson 2 holds 1.5 sacks.

Reitz 1 hold 0 sacks.

Satelle 2 pen 5.5 sacks.

Shipley 0 pen 0 sacks.

Jake Long 2 holds 1 FS 7 sacks in 12 games.

Ryan Clady 4 holds 2 FS 1 sack.

Matt Kalil 2 FS 5.5 sacks.

Russell Okung 3 holds 7 FS 2 sacks.

Nate Solder 1 hold 2 FS 3.5 sacks.

Joe Stailey 3 holds 2 FS 7 sacks.

Joe Thomas 4 holds 4 FS 4.5 sacks.

 

 

Those stats don't tell a story at all. Obviously tackles are going to give up more sacks than guards and centers. Its very hard to assess an o-lineman's success without going into very detailed stats that measure success in broken pockets, in different types of runs, against different types of pressures, dealing with double teams etc etc.

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I see people continue to be under the delusion we have a shot at Clady. We need to just remove Clady from the discussion in all these FA threads. There is no way Denver lets Clady go anywhere as long as Manning is under center.

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Ramon Foster, LG, Pittsburgh

Khalif Barnes, RT, Raiders

Draft - Larry Warford, RG, Kentucky

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O Line Rankings in order of which we should attack

#1 Vollmer

#2 Vasquez

#3 Levitre

#4 Long

 

Clady is obviosiously #1 but 99% its not happening. 

 

If we can get 1 maybe 2 and maybe Warford in draft I think that should hold us over at O line for the season and evaluate if we need to draft any OL with high picks in 2014.

 

Everywhere else

 

OLB - Id be fine with Barwin, Kruger, or Spencer and/or Jordan in draft 1st

Secondary - Any of these guys - Jenkins, DRC, Grimes, Cox, Shields, Byrd, Goldston and/or draft Rhodes in 1st

D Line - Melton, Avril, Johnson - Id love to snag Melton. He has been a force for Bears past 2 years

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Vollmer is a bigger injury risk than Long IMO, he suffered a bad back injury 2 years ago if I remember correctly.

 

I would not be mad at all if Indy signed any 3 of the 4 and just spent the entire draft on D.

 

That said...   G and RB are the easiest positions to fill in the NFL.      I don't know if I want to pay a FA G big bucks.     I would for a T.

 

Oh Lordy...   I can't wait to see how it unfolds.

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Bethea has been playing more of a SS role the last few seasons....at least since Bob was cut. He is in the box way more often than the guy opposite him.

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Vollmer is a bigger injury risk than Long IMO, he suffered a bad back injury 2 years ago if I remember correctly.

 

I would not be mad at all if Indy signed any 3 of the 4 and just spent the entire draft on D.

 

That said...   G and RB are the easiest positions to fill in the NFL.      I don't know if I want to pay a FA G big bucks.     I would for a T.

 

Oh Lordy...   I can't wait to see how it unfolds.

Vollmer also had back surgery this past off season I believe

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