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nburgmei

RGIII's career future

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I mean sure, but "running QB" carries such a negative connotation. He's a quarterback in the mold of Aaron Rodgers who is faster but also leaner and more susceptible to injuries. Aaron Rodgers has had concusion problems, but he's become smarter about saving his body, something Griffin will have to learn to do. But he doesn't just look at the defense, see his primary read covered, and then take off. He holds onto the ball a LONG time waiting for other reads to open, and if he doesn't see them, he usually takes off. By then, though, the defenders have keyed on the run and head towards him with a full head of steam.

I don't recall seeing aaron Rodgers running a read option offense keeping the ball and running it. He runs occasionally not very much

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I mean sure, but "running QB" carries such a negative connotation. He's a quarterback in the mold of Aaron Rodgers who is faster but also leaner and more susceptible to injuries. Aaron Rodgers has had concusion problems, but he's become smarter about saving his body, something Griffin will have to learn to do. But he doesn't just look at the defense, see his primary read covered, and then take off. He holds onto the ball a LONG time waiting for other reads to open, and if he doesn't see them, he usually takes off. By then, though, the defenders have keyed on the run and head towards him with a full head of steam.

Definitely, I'm sure the system he's plays in also has a heavy barring on how much he runs.

Hopefully it's not consistent but he does seem like he's had really bad luck involving his knee. I know he had a knee injury in college. I wonder if it's the same knee?

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Definitely, I'm sure the system he's plays in also has a heavy barring on how much he runs.

Hopefully it's not consistent but he does seem like he's had really bad luck involving his knee. I know he had a knee injury in college. I wonder if it's the same knee?

It is :(

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I don't recall seeing aaron Rodgers running a read option offense keeping the ball and running it. He runs occasionally not very much

Yeah he scrambles only when he needs to, kind of like Luck. AR sure can scramble though.

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What's the fault?

Aaron Rodgers scrambles A LOT in the backfield and subjects himself to a ton of hits. His slightly larger frame allows him to handle them better, and he's certainly more accurate at this point in his career, but regardless.

 

I don't think the difference in accuracy is all that big when Griffin isn't hobbling.  Rodgers just has a HUGE advantage when it comes to field vision at present.

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I don't think the difference in accuracy is all that big when Griffin isn't hobbling.  Rodgers just has a HUGE advantage when it comes to field vision at present.

Very true. I think Griffin doesn't have a problem getting through his reads but his vision is FAR better when he's able to move out of the pocket. He couldn't the past two weeks and it's shown. I think a full offseason, rehabbing or not, will help him tremendously and wouldn't be surprised to see him exceed 4000 yards and 25 TDs next year, provided he's healthy.

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When Cousins came into the game, Aikman and Buck mentioned that he has a different playbook than Griffin.  Shanahan Inc. is giving Griffin an easier read option playbook full of his old college plays and is using Griffin's running ability because it is a distinct advantage and defenses have a difficult time stopping it.  Shanahan knows Griffin is going to get his clock cleaned a lot and apparently he doesn't care.  If he did, he would make a copy of Kirk Cousin's more pro style playbook and give it to Griffin....and say, Here, Robert....learn this next year and be ready to play like the other QB's do and try not to get hurt.

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When Cousins came into the game, Aikman and Buck mentioned that he has a different playbook than Griffin.  Shanahan Inc. is giving Griffin an easier read option playbook full of his old college plays and is using Griffin's running ability because it is a distinct advantage and defenses have a difficult time stopping it.  Shanahan knows Griffin is going to get his clock cleaned a lot and apparently he doesn't care.  If he did, he would make a copy of Kirk Cousin's more pro style playbook and give it to Griffin....and say, Here, Robert....learn this next year and be ready to play like the other QB's do and try not to get hurt.

 

I didn't have an opportunity to listen to the broadcast but I am 1000% sure you misinterpreted what they were saying.

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I didn't have an opportunity to listen to the broadcast but I am 1000% sure you misinterpreted what they were saying.

All they said is he is a more traditional drop-back passer.

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What's the fault?

Aaron Rodgers scrambles A LOT in the backfield and subjects himself to a ton of hits. His slightly larger frame allows him to handle them better, and he's certainly more accurate at this point in his career, but regardless.

Well one big reason there is a difference is what you mentioned in your statement. He gets hit in the backfield*. Obviously Rodgers does take some big hits as all QBs do but Rodgers is very good at sliding or going out of bounds past the LOS. Rodgers also is putting himself more at risk for injury btw with his play style. Part of it is indeed luck as I think you alluded but look no further than Big Ben to see that this play style can be hazardous to your health. Ben also holds the ball alot and scrambles around and he's had his share of injuries.

While no hit is good, a QB taking a hit behind the LOS where the speed of the players involved isnt quite as high as in the open field past the LOS will most likely lead to less frequently vicious hits. Especially to the lower body. Again...obviously big hits and injuries happen behind the LOS.

But im saying if players like Peyton Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees, etc.. were out running past the LOS of scrimmage alot where LBs and safeties can take free running shots on them...the probably wont have lasted this long. There is a reason RBs, WRs and LBs tend to have shorter careers than QBs who do their best to avoid hits (and happen to be good).

If I had to bet id assume guys like Big Ben, Rodgers, etc.. will break down at younger ages than Manning and Brady will (who both look to have maybe even a few years left in the tank). But who knows.

Now alot some big hits Griffin took could have been avoided by simply sliding. But to this point he has shown he is more often inclined to stay up and put himself into a position to take a hit.

Edit: I think Griffin will be fine btw. Im sure he will slide more in the future when he does run and I think the Skins will have him running less as well. Also I do think if the Colts dont fix their O-line and Luck continues to take a beating the way he has...his career could be shortened as well.

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It really isn't a secret either that every defender

A) knows when and where a guy is injured and targets that spot.

B) love to hit QBs because how protected by the rules they are.

I cringe at hits these defenders make on Quarterbacks sometimes.

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This game wasn't even about dirty hits. It was about the knee being in poorer condition than even Griffin reaelized and a field that lacked any sort of stability. Griffin was hardly contacted today. He was actually having an excellent game through the first quarter, but clearly tweaked the knee on a non-contact play before the second touchdown. Planted funny before letting off a pass, but shook it off. Second time he went down his knee just buckled when he planted funny trying to pick up the fumble.

Watching him collapse after trying to pick up the fumble and failing, and him just laying there limp, was heartbreaking.

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Well one big reason there is a difference is what you mentioned in your statement. He gets hit in the backfield*. Obviously Rodgers does take some big hits as all QBs do but Rodgers is very good at sliding or going out of bounds past the LOS. Rodgers also is putting himself more at risk for injury btw with his play style. Part of it is indeed luck as I think you alluded but look no further than Big Ben to see that this play style can be hazardous to your health. Ben also holds the ball alot and scrambles around and he's had his share of injuries.

While no hit is good, a QB taking a hit behind the LOS where the speed of the players involved isnt quite as high as in the open field past the LOS will most likely lead to less frequently vicious hits. Especially to the lower body. Again...obviously big hits and injuries happen behind the LOS.

But im saying if players like Peyton Manning, Brady, Rivers, Brees, etc.. were out running past the LOS of scrimmage alot where LBs and safeties can take free running shots on them...the probably wont have lasted this long. There is a reason RBs, WRs and LBs tend to have shorter careers than QBs who do their best to avoid hits (and happen to be good).

If I had to bet id assume guys like Big Ben, Rodgers, etc.. will break down at younger ages than Manning and Brady will (who both look to have maybe even a few years left in the tank). But who knows.

Now alot some big hits Griffin took could have been avoided by simply sliding. But to this point he has shown he is more often inclined to stay up and put himself into a position to take a hit.

Edit: I think Griffin will be fine btw. Im sure he will slide more in the future when he does run and I think the Skins will have him running less as well. Also I do think if the Colts dont fix their O-line and Luck continues to take a beating the way he has...his career could be shortened as well.

 

 

 

If RG3 hadn't had the knee injury , he would have run for 1000 yards. That in itself tells you why ,unless they change the offense , this guy will always be hobbling around the football field.  In another thread , a Wash fan brought up the fact that many other scramblers had long careers. I pointed out that RG3 had twice the carries that these guys had. Truth of the matter is they compared more to Luck than RG3. From what I see , what Shanahan is running with RG3 will afford defenses way too many debilitating hits on him. Also , Grigson will fix the O line and Luck is an oak tree compared to RG3. This is why Irsay didn't even consider (according to Polian) taking RG3. 

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If RG3 hadn't had the knee injury , he would have run for 1000 yards. That in itself tells you why ,unless they change the offense , this guy will always be hobbling around the football field.  In another thread , a Wash fan brought up the fact that many other scramblers had long careers. I pointed out that RG3 had twice the carries that these guys had. Truth of the matter is they compared more to Luck than RG3. From what I see , what Shanahan is running with RG3 will afford defenses way too many debilitating hits on him. Also , Grigson will fix the O line and Luck is an oak tree compared to RG3. This is why Irsay didn't even consider (according to Polian) taking RG3. 

Well I do think the Redskins will tone down the frequency of the zone read plays. If they dont I think its a mistake myself but we shall see.

Ive argued at length with some friends of mine that this style of offense is much harder to have longterm success in the NFL. Youre QB will obviously be put into more situations to get hit and in situations where those hits can be even bigger. You're also dealing with a level of football where the talent gap is very small compared to college and high school. Everyone in this league is big fast and can hit. This isnt like college where you would have a few games against teams with top notch talent and alot of games against teams where you completely outclass them. The quality of the coaching is also higher than at any other level. The spread is an offense based around the idea of creating mismatches due to a talent disparity and a lack of speed in open space. It also adds in the aspect of unfamiliarity (less so in this day and age) and deception. I think the advantage the Redskins have had with catching teams off guard this season will be negated more so next season when teams have a full season of film on it and more time to prepare. I still think it can work but I think Griffin running shanny's style of pro level offense would be equally as effective.

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I didn't have an opportunity to listen to the broadcast but I am 1000% sure you misinterpreted what they were saying.

Good lord get that rdiculously rich owner of the 2nd most valuable team in the NFL to upgrade that field turf! It looked like a cow pasture out there! :facepalm:

You'd think he'd want a nice turf to protect and help his own players.

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Well I do think the Redskins will tone down the frequency of the zone read plays. If they dont I think its a mistake myself but we shall see.

Ive argued at length with some friends of mine that this style of offense is much harder to have longterm success in the NFL. Youre QB will obviously be put into more situations to get hit and in situations where those hits can be even bigger. You're also dealing with a level of football where the talent gap is very small compared to college and high school. Everyone in this league is big fast and can hit. This isnt like college where you would have a few games against teams with top notch talent and alot of games against teams where you completely outclass them. The quality of the coaching is also higher than at any other level. The spread is an offense based around the idea of creating mismatches due to a talent disparity and a lack of speed in open space. It also adds in the aspect of unfamiliarity (less so in this day and age) and deception. I think the advantage the Redskins have had with catching teams off guard this season will be negated more so next season when teams have a full season of film on it and more time to prepare. I still think it can work but I think Griffin running shanny's style of pro level offense would be equally as effective.

 

 

 

Anyone can get hurt playing this game. But so far....

 

2 games not finished.

missed a game

2 games played on bad knee

 

So that's 5 out of 17 games effected by hits on RG3. It's great that the LB's are stuck in "no man's land" because they don't know if Rg is handing off , throwing or tucking it in and running. It leads to very simplified reads and short passes to wide open receivers. It also makes for some very frustrated , angery , big fast defenders that are aching to deliver a big hit. IMO , sooner or later RG3 will have to be a more conventional QB. These running QB's can do this for 3-4 years . 120 carries through 14 or so games is just not sustainable for a QB in this league.

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Good lord get that rdiculously rich owner of the 2nd most valuable team in the NFL to upgrade that field turf! It looked like a cow pasture out there! :facepalm:

You'd think he'd want a nice turf to protect and help his own players.

Natural grass is safer than any turf

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What's the fault?

Aaron Rodgers scrambles A LOT in the backfield and subjects himself to a ton of hits. His slightly larger frame allows him to handle them better, and he's certainly more accurate at this point in his career, but regardless.

Aaron Rodgers is a Superbowl MVP who plays consistently and knows when to run out of bounds, when to throw it away and most importantly when to slide. Oh did I mention hes a Superbowl MVP?

Skip Bayless is that you?

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Aaron Rodgers is a Superbowl MVP who plays consistently and knows when to run out of bounds, when to throw it away and most importantly when to slide. Oh did I mention hes a Superbowl MVP?

Skip Bayless is that you?

haha

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RG3 if he wants to last in this league will have to stop running as a QB, let Morris do the work.

 

Not many running QB's in the past decade lasted long. He needs to stay put and sit in the pocket. I know it's not his game, but he will have to make adjustments, this is the big boys league and players will knock you out of the game.

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I though Morris looked decidedly average once the read optin was taken away (with Griffin's lack of mobility). They definitely help each other succeed. If they reduce the read option next season, I think it will curtail their effectiveness as an offense quite drastically. Tough call for the coaching staff.....

 

Those saying Bob is not a 'running QB' are certainly in denial.

 

Hope the MRI is ok btw, he is an exciting talent, and one the league needs.

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Shanahan is the epitome of a "win-now" coach willing to sacrifice the long-term good of the franchise and Griffin so long as he can ride RGIII long enough to get another contract extension. The news of him lying about Dr. Andrews clearing RGIII and what I saw tonight disgusted me. And I'm not a man who thinks terribly highly of college and NFL coaches' moral fiber to begin with.

 

Anybody who knows anything about boxing realizes that the last person you ever really want to ask about their health is the boxer himself, because he's trained to never quit regardless of pain. Football is no different. And Shanahan knows it. It was his responsibility to protect Griffin from himself. He knew that Griffin was simply saying the right things--like he's been trained to do, as has every other player since youth football--to stay in the game, and willfully ignored all the on-field evidence that Griffin was just paying him lip service. 

 

As I said before, I don't hold any of these coaches up on a pedestal, but Shanahan's hit a new low for me.

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I want to say first I hope RG3 is okay and had no major damage done to his knee. 

 

I have taken away two things from RG3's rookie year.

 

1.  He's a game changer when healthy and a very talent player.

 

2.  Injuries are going to be a problem for him and make no mistake the Redskins know this.  That's why they took Cousins to make sure they have a good back up behind. 

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Griffin started limping noticeably after that second TD.  He didn't look the same afterwards.

 

 

Didn't even look like he could plant his bad leg on his throws.  He was 6 of 8 for 68 yards and 2 TDs in the first quarter, IIRC, which was pretty good pace.

 

 

Shanahan was pretty up front about it in his presser.  He's trusted Griffin's judgment a little too much this season on when he's good to go and recognizes that he needs to learn his QB a little bit better when it comes to these things.

 

It's mighty disappointing but understandable.  I still find myself in a position where Griffin seems as much or more to blame for his injury problems than anyone.  He's got to be smarter and he's got to recognize that there's a point where he's hurting his team by trying to be tougher than his body allows.

Blaming a rookie for wanting to play in the playoffs? You probably got on Cutler for taking himself out a couple years ago, too.

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I've seen RG3 compared to QBs like Elway, Rodgers, Luck, Vick, and Cunningham and while most of them were built about the same the difference is in how they play. 

 

Elway, Rodgers, and Luck were QBs who can run if they needed too but always looked to pass first and didn't run nearly as much as the other QBs on the list.  Vick and Cunningham like RG3 like to run a lot and it helped make them special players.  With that said injuries became a problem for them because all those hits wear on your body.  Since RG3 has already been knocked out of three games, missed another and was severally hobbled in yet another game due to injury I think it's safe to say it's fair to be concerned about his health.  He's not 6-4 and 234 pounds like Luck is.  Luck is built like an Ox and can take a little more punishment as a result and while Luck takes his fair share of shots he really don't take the big blows that RG3 takes by running outside the pocket. 

 

I want to be clear I am NOT saying RG3 should stop running.  If he did that he wouldn't be the second overall pick in the draft.  However, that is a double edged sword.  While it's going to make it's fair share of big explosive plays it's also going to expose RG3 to more injuries and the fact he's already had five games impacted by injury while Luck has had none helps back that up. 

 

Again that is NOT a shot at RG3.  I think he is a very special player when healthy but it is very fair to be concerned about how healthy he can stay.  Even the Redskins feel that way or no way they take two QBs in this draft. 

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It's no win situation on player injuries, especially QB's.  You can't ask the player, he'll tell you he's a go even if the backup is probably the better choice. If doctors don't clear him, then it's a no brainer.  Coaches want to win, so they have colored specs on too. But if -

 

A. Injured player (Knee ?) plays, gets injured to point it was obvious he can't go on, the coaches get villified. (RGIII)

B. Injured player (ACL) goes out and plays all game, later becomes tough guy hero to teammates, but needs surgery and 4+ months rehab (Philips Rivers)

C. Injured player (Knee bruise) sits out and gets pummelled (LaDanian Tomlinson)

D. Uninjured player gets injured (Grd2 MCL) but not obvious he can't continue and gets pummelled.  (Jay Cutler)

 

So it seems weird, but when Carson Palmer went out of a playoff game (ACL and MCL) nobody made mention.  When Cutler gets a 3-4 week injury in a playoff game (Grade 2 MCL) he was thoroughly trashed.  

 

I think the doctors are going to tighten the noose on clearing players still in recovery because of this incident, and player/coach mentality.

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Ever watch a boxing match where you are saying to yourself "why isn't the ref stoppong this fight"? RG is doomed if this continues, period. Only Joe Theismans leg looked worse than yesterdays pictures.

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Many here and elsewhere said the kid would not last ... this isn't the Big12 its the NFL!  If he returns next season I expect more of the same!

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Natural grass is safer than any turf

I disagree, that field yesterday was terrible and un safe

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I disagree, that field yesterday was terrible and un safe

Yeah, I was only half butt paying attention to the 2nd game last night....that field was horrible

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Yeah, I was only half butt paying attention to the 2nd game last night....that field was horrible

I thought Soldier Field had the worst kept field in the NFL. RedSkins field looks even worse.

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Not only did RG3 get hurt on Fed-Ex field turf, Adrian Peterson suffered his knee injury last season and Chris Clemons got a possible ACL yesterday on that field.

 

That field will get scrutinized, I'm pretty certain.

 

They should consider they system Green Bay uses to keep from re-experiencing the frozen tundrs-

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/14/sports/football/tenderizing-the-packers-tundra-with-light-and-heat.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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Indianapolis, Washington and Seattle all drafted their QBs in large part for their ability to "move" in and out of the pocket, apparently only Indy and Seattle were serious. 

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Blaming a rookie for wanting to play in the playoffs? You probably got on Cutler for taking himself out a couple years ago, too.

 

I don't recall committing to an opinion on the Cutler issue.  All the reports made it sound like he could have kept playing but I'm vary wary of the effects playing hurt have on your body.  You might not be seriously injured but a sufficient amount of pain can cause you to alter your body mechanics in ways that can put an unbelievable amount of stress on non-injured parts of the body.  Doing so puts you at further risk for more serious injuries elsewhere.

 

I know I thought it was stupid as hell for Rivers to continue to play a few years back when his knee was barely holding up and I think this is a systemic problem in the NFL.  The human body physically can't hold up to some of the things these guys are pressured to do.

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rumor alert but supposedly it is an MCL tear as well.  Not confirmed yet however. 

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rumor alert but supposedly it is an MCL tear as well. Not confirmed yet however.

I'm almost positive he tore one of the ligaments. His knee buckled bad. Very unstable looking

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I heard rumors that this could be a career ending injury, Waiting on the MRI results myself.

 

If it is, that is a HUGE blow to the Redskins, I mean they gave up so much to draft him.

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I'm almost positive he tore one of the ligaments. His knee buckled bad. Very unstable looking

It did.

 

Possible PCL tear is the latest rumor.   

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I was hoping RGIII could show critics he could be an effective pocket passer...and while he did show that rocket arm of his at times he's not the same without his legs....or at least that threat....and it effected Al Morris as well.

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