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Greenoughrunner

Luck vs rg3

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I like Luck but from what I can see, RG3 is the more accurate passer, he runs faster and is more elusive.

They're both good but I don't see how anybody assessing the QB's objectively can say that Luck does anything better than RG3. Seems like RG3 has the potential to be the best QB in the league. Luck seems to be RG3 lite.

But both are good.

First off we all know RGIII is faster than Luck his 40 times proved that. Then you have to go and make a comment regarding skin color. . . Really why does it have to come to that? That just shows ignorance. If you have to point to skin color to try and validate your point then you have lost the arguement. There is no need for skin color to be brought into this conversation so please leave it at the door.

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......And the hyperbole for RG3 isn't just as bad or worse?

What hyperbole? I don't think I have read anyone say he is the GOAT or anything. Or am I mistaken?

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It's an apples and oranges comparison, so this entire debate is about who has the greener lawn. And we both own golf courses. If Luck threw 21 passes in a game, completing 13 of them, the Colts couldn't win. The Browns game is the only one out of 12 so far in which Luck wasn't asked to toss it around like a guy with his hair on fire. RG3 can, and has, been able to limit the attempts, maintain balanced play calling with some regularity. Wilson too. But the offenses are so different, the players on the rosters so different... I agree with many others who have said that the huge advantage RG3 (and Wilson) have is their running games. More importantly, RG3 isn't being routinely asked to make multiple reads on five and seven step drops 25+ times a game, while Luck is. But that isn't a knock on RG3, it's what Shanahan is asking of him. So the issue to me than becomes could RG3 be performing as well on the Colts, and Luck on the Skins? We don't know, and it doesn't matter. It is likely the numbers would be as they are now. Why? Because they are both talented, smart, athletic, quality QBs.

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What hyperbole? I don't think I have read anyone say he is the GOAT or anything. Or am I mistaken?

Absolutely you're mistaken. I have heard ESPN claim that RG3 was the best rookie in the history of football. Not just QB, but best ever rookie at any position. That is utter and complete nonsense. I have heard them, almost on a daily basis, try to make an argument for MVP this season. IMO, that is utter and complete nonsense.

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It's an apples and oranges comparison, so this entire debate is about who has the greener lawn. And we both own golf courses. If Luck threw 21 passes in a game, completing 13 of them, the Colts couldn't win. The Browns game is the only one out of 12 so far in which Luck wasn't asked to toss it around like a guy with his hair on fire. RG3 can, and has, been able to limit the attempts, maintain balanced play calling with some regularity. Wilson too. But the offenses are so different, the players on the rosters so different... I agree with many others who have said that the huge advantage RG3 (and Wilson) have is their running games. More importantly, RG3 isn't being routinely asked to make multiple reads on five and seven step drops 25+ times a game, while Luck is. But that isn't a knock on RG3, it's what Shanahan is asking of him. So the issue to me than becomes could RG3 be performing as well on the Colts, and Luck on the Skins? We don't know, and it doesn't matter. It is likely the numbers would be as they are now. Why? Because they are both talented, smart, athletic, quality QBs.

Well said.

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First off we all know RGIII is faster than Luck his 40 times proved that. Then you have to go and make a comment regarding skin color. . . Really why does it have to come to that? That just shows ignorance. If you have to point to skin color to try and validate your point then you have lost the arguement. There is no need for skin color to be brought into this conversation so please leave it at the door.

How does me bringing up skin color denote a lack of knowledge on my part?

I feel that's why people think he won't succeed and is compared to Vick or Newton. He runs. Yes. But So does Luck. I don't see Luck being referred to as a running QB.

Luck gets Compared to Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers etc.

I'm not a Griffin fan. I'm not really trying to argue thus I don't need to resort to race. I'm trying to understand what has made people annoint Luck as a peerless rookie QB.

Since I don't watch college football, I was ignorant and could not tell which one we should have drafted. Now that I have seen them both play, I am confused by how some were repulsed at the mere thought of drafting RG3 over Luck.

So please, someone tell me why Luck is better than RG3... and not because the Colts have a better record.

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Absolutely you're mistaken. I have heard ESPN claim that RG3 was the best rookie in the history of football. Not just QB, but best ever rookie at any position. That is utter and complete nonsense. I have heard them, almost on a daily basis, try to make an argument for MVP this season. IMO, that is utter and complete nonsense.

What about the hype around Luck? And you know there has been a ton. Is the hype warranted?

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How does me bringing up skin color denote a lack of knowledge on my part?

I feel that's why people think he won't succeed and is compared to Vick or Newton. He runs. Yes. But So does Luck. I don't see Luck being referred to as a running QB.

Luck gets Compared to Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers etc.

I'm not a Griffin fan. I'm not really trying to argue thus I don't need to resort to race. I'm trying to understand what has made people annoint Luck as a peerless rookie QB.

Since I don't watch college football, I was ignorant and could not tell which one we should have drafted. Now that I have seen them both play, I am confused by how some were repulsed at the mere thought of drafting RG3 over Luck.

So please, someone tell me why Luck is better than RG3... and not because the Colts have a better record.

Luck does not have designed run plays, therefor he's a scrambling QB like Rogers etc... He runs when it's necessary.

RGIII has designed RUN plays, thus a running QB like Vick and Newton, who also have designed run plays (Vick less recently). Really, it's not that hard to grasp this concept.

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It doesn't really matter what people think but since this is a forum, it's the perfect place to voice my opinion.

And my opinion is, if both QB's were to live up to their potential, RG3 would become the better QB.

And right now I feel they're on the same level. If I was in charge of the Colts, now that I've seen both play, I would probably draft Griffin. That's just my opinion.

And I'm sure no one cares. At least you shouldn't.

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What about the hype around Luck? And you know there has been a ton. Is the hype warranted?

8-4 from a 2-14 team. I'd say the hype fits. I don't care how pretty the car is, I just want to get there. Why on earth does it matter who is "better" when nobody can define the criteria to assess it? This isn't a math formula, it's a matter of personal opinion. Which makes it a useless debate. And since there will never be a time when Luck can start on the Skins from day one, nor RG3 on the Colts, we'll never know given the same set of circumstances. More to the point, this is a marathon, not a sprint, so assessing careers 12 games into the first season is pointless. When the careers are over, and all the wins and losses, all the playoff appearances and stats are gathered, they will fall in line with all the other QBs who have ever played.

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Luck does not have designed run plays, therefor he's a scrambling QB like Rogers etc... He runs when it's necessary.

RGIII has designed RUN plays, thus a running QB like Vick and Newton, who also have designed run plays (Vick less recently). Really, it's not that hard to grasp this concept.

Ok, it's not hard at all.

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Luck does not have designed run plays, therefor he's a scrambling QB like Rogers etc... He runs when it's necessary.

RGIII has designed RUN plays, thus a running QB like Vick and Newton, who also have designed run plays (Vick less recently). Really, it's not that hard to grasp this concept.

But then people just ignore his passing ability?

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But then people just ignore his passing ability?

Newton broke the rookie passing record last year, so I don't think a comparison to Newton negates RGIII's ability to pass.

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Stats are like women's G-string...allows You to see a lot of things, still covers what really matters.

I cannot believe you just said that :oops:

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What about the hype around Luck? And you know there has been a ton. Is the hype warranted?

I'll just say, Yes, the hype was and is absolutely warranted. Secondly, the hype for RG3 has been on a whole new level, a level of sickening and disgusting proportions. Especially, from Skip Bayless, who im pretty sure would marry RG3 if RG3 would have him. The same Skip Bayless that thinks Tim Tebow is a great QB. Any player that Skip Bayless thinks is awesome, pretty much tells me that they will turn out to be a bust.

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I'll just say, Yes, the hype was and is absolutely warranted. Secondly, the hype for RG3 has been on a whole new level, a level of sickening and disgusting proportions. Especially, from Skip Bayless, who im pretty sure would marry RG3 if RG3 would have him. The same Skip Bayless that thinks Tim Tebow is a great QB. Any player that Skip Bayless thinks is awesome, pretty much tells me that they will turn out to be a bust.

Quite honestly IMO I find the Luck hype to be much more disgusting. And imo it's been much higher.

"Suck for Luck!"

Yuck.

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It is not on there now, but previously the NFL network had a thread right below RG3's picture that read "vote for RG3 for the probowl". If you opened the thread, a listing of all the candidates appeared. That is what I was relating to on the media being a tad bit biased. Everyone, including RG3 and Luck needs to be considered in a fair way, not on whose popular at the moment.

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I wish Eli Manning would call a presser and issue the proclamation that he is better than RG3 and vows to whoop his rear end for the next 7-10 years. That would start a proper rivalry and leave Luck to worry about Brady, which is the way God designed it.

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Wow...alot of hatred in this thread. But I would like to respond to certain things I believe are inaccuracies in logic that need to be nipped in the butt....

1) Washington's O-Line is worse than Indianapolis' O-Line IMO. It's the exact line that gave up 41 sacks a year ago (vs. the Colts 35 sacks). The difference between this year and last is literally the QB. The Redskins went from the probably the most immobile quarterback in the league (Rex Grossman) to one of the most mobile, fastest QBs in the league, and that has done wonders on pass pro. Griffin has changed plays that were historically a negative play into positive, back breaking plays several times this season. Games that were typically 4-5 sack games have turned into 1-2 sack games instead. And most of that credit goes to RG3's feet and the offensive playcalling (the quick screens and passes to the flat are designed for a reason, people). I mean, i think it's flat out silly to attack RG3 and the Skins' offense when it's designed to mask the o-line's pass blocking deficiencies and it works. And speaking of the offense....

2) The offense is not a college offense. What a load of bunk. It's a modified West Coast offense, with zone reads added in, because, you know, the QB actually runs it well. It uses the same principles--freezing up the LB's and attacking the middle of the field. It's not simple at all because they are several different formations, and there is little to no pre-snap reads. It's literally decisions on the fly--even the decision to hand the ball off is done after the ball is snapped...that IMO is more difficult than an offense based around pre-snap reads, because the reads are done while the play is actually being ran.

3) Who is the better QB now? If we're going by statistics...it's not even close. RGIII has a better than 4 to 1 TD-to-INT ratio...that is not just good for a rookie...that's great for ANY QB. He's 3rd in QBR (vs. 26th for Luck). RGIII is 6th in completion % (vs. Luck at 32). Yes, Luck is 4th in yardage, but he's also 2nd in attempts (which is ridiculously high for a rookie QB btw). If we're looking at impact, then Luck would get the nod, simply for taking a 2-win team last season to 8 wins, although RGIII has better, higher profile wins than Luck this year.

That's my $0.02....take it how you'd like....

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Wow...alot of hatred in this thread. But I would like to respond to certain things I believe are inaccuracies in logic that need to be nipped in the butt....

1) Washington's O-Line is worse than Indianapolis' O-Line IMO. It's the exact line that gave up 41 sacks a year ago (vs. the Colts 35 sacks). The difference between this year and last is literally the QB. The Redskins went from the probably the most immobile quarterback in the league (Rex Grossman) to one of the most mobile, fastest QBs in the league, and that has done wonders on pass pro. Griffin has changed plays that were historically a negative play into positive, back breaking plays several times this season. Games that were typically 4-5 sack games have turned into 1-2 sack games instead. And most of that credit goes to RG3's feet and the offensive playcalling (the quick screens and passes to the flat are designed for a reason, people). I mean, i think it's flat out silly to attack RG3 and the Skins' offense when it's designed to mask the o-line's pass blocking deficiencies and it works. And speaking of the offense....

2) The offense is not a college offense. What a load of bunk. It's a modified West Coast offense, with zone reads added in, because, you know, the QB actually runs it well. It uses the same principles--freezing up the LB's and attacking the middle of the field. It's not simple at all because they are several different formations, and there is little to no pre-snap reads. It's literally decisions on the fly--even the decision to hand the ball off is done after the ball is snapped...that IMO is more difficult than an offense based around pre-snap reads, because the reads are done while the play is actually being ran.

3) Who is the better QB now? If we're going by statistics...it's not even close. RGIII has a better than 4 to 1 TD-to-INT ratio...that is not just good for a rookie...that's great for ANY QB. He's 3rd in QBR (vs. 26th for Luck). RGIII is 6th in completion % (vs. Luck at 32). Yes, Luck is 4th in yardage, but he's also 2nd in attempts (which is ridiculously high for a rookie QB btw). If we're looking at impact, then Luck would get the nod, simply for taking a 2-win team last season to 8 wins, although RGIII has better, higher profile wins than Luck this year.

That's my $0.02....take it how you'd like....

1. Washington's O-line is not worse than Indy's. Thats basic knowledge and if anybody disagree's, they simply haven't watched the games. The skins line may not be real adept at pass blocking but they have one of the best run blocking lines in the league. Indy's line can do neither.

2. The Skins offense is a college style option offense and even Gruden said it was. If want to argue with people that have actually coached in the league before and knows these offenses inside and out, then I guess there is no sense in debating the subject.

3. If you go by stats and stats alone, then that logic is highly flawed. You have to look beyond the stats and delve into the reasoning for the stats.

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Colin Cowherd this morning started singing Luck's praises like crazy, saying he is better than RGIII, he just would not stop. I don't know if that's good or bad because it sounded just like when he expresses his love for Tom Brady :)

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Colin Cowherd this morning started singing Luck's praises like crazy, saying he is better than RGIII, he just would not stop. I don't know if that's good or bad because it sounded just like when he expresses his love for Tom Brady :)

I would rather get the Love from Cowherd than Skip Bayless. Bayless's undying devotion for everything RG3 is comical because he has proved time and time again that he know's absolutely nothing about football.

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, December 4, 2012 - inflammatory

My first and hopefully only post in this epic thread.

I’m not sure what this thread has more of whether it is hypocrisy, hate, jealously, or just far-fetched phantasmagoric statements.

Either way it’s been comical to watch from afar, and par for the course.

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I cannot believe you just said that :oops:

Sorry for shattering my reputation at You... I wanted to express what stats worth, and I couldn't miss a joke...

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How does me bringing up skin color denote a lack of knowledge on my part?

I feel that's why people think he won't succeed and is compared to Vick or Newton. He runs. Yes. But So does Luck. I don't see Luck being referred to as a running QB.

Luck gets Compared to Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers etc.

I'm not a Griffin fan. I'm not really trying to argue thus I don't need to resort to race. I'm trying to understand what has made people annoint Luck as a peerless rookie QB.

Since I don't watch college football, I was ignorant and could not tell which one we should have drafted. Now that I have seen them both play, I am confused by how some were repulsed at the mere thought of drafting RG3 over Luck.

So please, someone tell me why Luck is better than RG3... and not because the Colts have a better record.

Your posts would dictate otherwise that your a Griffin fan.

Secondly if we cannot use wins as a barometer, then you can't use any stats at all to claim that RGIII is better. You can't exclude stats because they make your point not valid.

Luck is asked to do way more with alot less offensively speaking than Griffin. Luck has to throw the ball skewing his numbers greatly. Last nights game for example the Skins had over 200 rushing yds.

Yet in stark contrast Indy vs. Det the colts had a total of 87 running yds and 33 came from Luck.

You can't compare the two players because the schemes aren't anywhere close to being the same. Arians isn't running a "college" style offense like Shanahan.

I'm not knocking it but what I am saying is that the system in which Griffin is in, its a low risk, high reward type offense where as luck is High risk/ High reward

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Wow...alot of hatred in this thread. But I would like to respond to certain things I believe are inaccuracies in logic that need to be nipped in the butt....

1) Washington's O-Line is worse than Indianapolis' O-Line IMO.

That's my $0.02....take it how you'd like....

the_price_is_right-show-1_zps09e344b3.jpg

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, December 4, 2012 - quoting removed post

My first and hopefully only post in this epic thread.

I’m not sure what this thread has more of whether it is hypocrisy, hate, jealously, or just far-fetched phantasmagoric statements.

Either way it’s been comical to watch from afar, and par for the course.

Well now if you will explain to me what all those big words mean maybe I can give you a like. :funny:

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They're both good but I don't see how anybody assessing the QB's objectively can say that Luck does anything better than RG3. Seems like RG3 has the potential to be the best QB in the league. Luck seems to be RG3 lite.

Things that Luck does better:

Run a true Pro Style offense

Run the no huddle

2 minute drills

3rd and long conversions (best in the league)

Not showboat after every play

etc.

etc.

If RG3 has the potential to be the best QB in the league why are they babying him with the gimmick offense that limits his throws down field? He throws a spectacular deep ball, but the rest of pass plays the coaches call are rather pedestrian routes and screens. This league figures out gimmicks real fast. I wish they would just open up the playbook and let him do his thing. In last night's game he wasn't even the best rookie on his own team (Alfred Morris won the game), let alone in the league.

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I'll just say, Yes, the hype was and is absolutely warranted. Secondly, the hype for RG3 has been on a whole new level, a level of sickening and disgusting proportions. Especially, from Skip Bayless, who im pretty sure would marry RG3 if RG3 would have him. The same Skip Bayless that thinks Tim Tebow is a great QB. Any player that Skip Bayless thinks is awesome, pretty much tells me that they will turn out to be a bust.

Absolutely you're mistaken. The media and hype around Luck last year was every bit as over the top as the rg3 hype is now. Before ever taking an NFL snap he was the next manning and elway rolled into one.

Luck was the media darling for a while after tebow got old. Rg3 is the media darling now. Before long it'll be someone else. Frankly I'm beginning to wonder if you're just upset the media is worshipping someone other than Luck.

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the_price_is_right-show-1_zps09e344b3.jpg

Say what you'd like, but one guy is excelling, despite his poor o-line, while another guy (or should I saw another guy's fanbase) is using his as an excuse for his mistakes.

Washington's o-line was one of the worse last season--the only difference is the guy taking the snaps.

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Luck does not have designed run plays, therefor he's a scrambling QB like Rogers etc... He runs when it's necessary.

RGIII has designed RUN plays, thus a running QB like Vick and Newton, who also have designed run plays (Vick less recently). Really, it's not that hard to grasp this concept.

He is still a pass first quarterback, and he is pretty good at it. I still call him Brady with legs, like many refer to 12 as Manning with legs.

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Absolutely you're mistaken. The media and hype around Luck last year was every bit as over the top as the rg3 hype is now. Before ever taking an NFL snap he was the next manning and elway rolled into one.

Luck was the media darling for a while after tebow got old. Rg3 is the media darling now. Before long it'll be someone else. Frankly I'm beginning to wonder if you're just upset the media is worshipping someone other than Luck.

That has to be what it is. I didn't hear any complaints when 12 was getting all the attention before the draft, and now that Griffin is the new thing...people hate it. Just hypocrisy.

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I'll just say, Yes, the hype was and is absolutely warranted. Secondly, the hype for RG3 has been on a whole new level, a level of sickening and disgusting proportions. Especially, from Skip Bayless, who im pretty sure would marry RG3 if RG3 would have him. The same Skip Bayless that thinks Tim Tebow is a great QB. Any player that Skip Bayless thinks is awesome, pretty much tells me that they will turn out to be a bust.

So if Bayless starts singing praises for 12 if he gets into the playoffs...then he is destined to be a bust? Ah.

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So if Bayless starts singing praises for 12 if he gets into the playoffs...then he is destined to be a bust? Ah.

sHEEE!!!! pLEASE NOT SO LOUD SKIP MIGHT HEAR YA!!!

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Just like the hypocricy of a Houston fan posting on a COLTS "FAN" FORUM.

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I am a skins fan. Yes we are ecstatic over what is going on here in Washington DC and RG3. But there is a unanimous consensus around here that if we were to go over the draft again and if Skins had a choice to pick between Luck and RG3, it is Luck that we will choose. But we never had that choice. We tried to get the next best player after Luck.

If you listen to the talk shows here, though we are excited, we are also very nervous. Nobody knows how long this college style can last. We watch in horror everytime he gets hit. Our hope is that he transforms into a typical NFL QB.

It would be FAR from unanimous at this point. Before we saw these guys in action it was probably 85-15 in favor of Luck with just about everyone happy we had a shot at either. Now it's probably the reverse. Skins fans have their guy and they like him a heck of a lot.

The talk shows can be interesting but they're no beacon of intelligent football discussion, least of all when DC area callers are involved. This is not a college offense and anyone who insists that it is or is "gimmicky" in some way should be discredited instantly. It's built predominantly on sound concepts from a long-time pro-style offense that has borrowed and improved upon a few things from the college game.

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Just like the hypocricy of a Houston fan posting on a COLTS "FAN" FORUM.

Oh, sorry, I didn't know it was exclusive to Colts fans. You better tell the Patriots, Saints, Chargers, and Redskins fans to stop posting here too. You don't seem to understand what the word HYPOCRISY means either, nor do you know how to spell it. Move along now, this topic apparently doesn't interest you enough to comment about it instead of me...Novice.

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Oh, sorry, I didn't know it was exclusive to Colts fans. You better tell the Patriots, Saints, Chargers, and Redskins fans to stop posting here too. You don't seem to understand what the word HYPOCRISY means either, nor do you know how to spell it. Move along now, this topic apparently doesn't interest you enough to comment about it instead of me...Novice.

You have just as much a right to post here as Colts fans, but please show some respect when you do it. Many times when I read your posts you just seem as if you are here to stir the pot. I don't know if that is the case, but it certainly seems that way. If I am wrong I apologize in advance.

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You have just as much a right to post here as Colts fans, but please show some respect when you do it. Many times when I read your posts you just seem as if you are here to stir the pot. I don't know if that is the case, but it certainly seems that way. If I am wrong I apologize in advance.

Thanks! You stated that much better than I did!

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You have just as much a right to post here as Colts fans, but please show some respect when you do it. Many times when I read your posts you just seem as if you are here to stir the pot. I don't know if that is the case, but it certainly seems that way. If I am wrong I apologize in advance.

If I wanted to stir the pot I would be chalking up my team's record, path, hard work and other things while at the same time being a complete dbomb and pointing out every little mistake that I may or may not have noticed about the Colts both offensively and defensively. I have friends on this site and I show respect in every post I make...ironically enough, many of the posters here that don't show respect are the ones who don't like other teams fans and make no secret of it, whether the fan posts the truth about situations or if they are indeed trolls. I earned my respect over 1500 posts ago.

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      If you want to argue that there was a player who was more "pro ready" for 2016 than Clark,   I absolutely would not disagree with you.   In fact,  that's what I argued the night we took him and then the next night and the whole weekend.   And I * off a lot of Colts fans by saying Clark was likely not going to help us much this year,  but would hopefully help us in 2017.    They did NOT want to read that.   So, on that limited argument,  we agree.   But on most everything else,  we disagree.     I don't know why you posted the profiles from NFL.com    Not sure how they helped you?    Clark's profile has a higher grade and projects him in the 1st or 2nd round.    Westerman's has a lower grade and a 2nd or 3rd round projection.   If Christian Westerman ever plays a day of offensive tackle in the NFL,  then the Bengals are playing under emergency conditions.      I'm not aware that he ever played a day of tackle in his life.   By the way,  the Bengals top two draft picks in 2015 were tackles.   Ogbuehi from Texas A&M and Fisher from Oregon went 1-2.    Those are their tackles of the future.     They have other tackles like Wentworth and others.   Westerman will play guard or center.      Remember,  he's 6-3 and 300.     Can you think of a single other OT in the NFL that was 6-3 and 300?      I don't think there's been one of those in quite some time.    He's an interior lineman all the way.      Remember,  one of my favorites from this draft.     But we took Haeg over him,  so if we liked him at all,   it was limited.     Clark went two full rounds ahead of him.   Clark's ceiling, his upside is simply ridiculous.    The question becomes,  can we coach him up enough to get him there.     For everyone's sake,   let's hope so.        
    • Position Depth Comfort Level
      Get technical. Anyone could be the back up punter. That don't mean anyone can kick it any distance. PM practices FGs right along side AV in camp and practices but I have never seen AV practice kicking punts with PM. If all you want to do is argue find someone else.
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      Hello my Name is Robin. And i'm from Denmark. even though i've been member on this forum for a long time, and the old one as well. I would like to Introduce myself. I became a Colts fan in 2007, when I watched my first NFL game. My brother introduced me to NFL, the superbowl between Colts & Bears, And as we all know the Bears scored first, so I had to rude for the "underdogs".. and from that day on I was hooked. I've watched every game since, even the primetime games, that starts 2:30 in Denmark, it's a long day working with no sleep but damn its worth it. Can't wait for my next big Colts adventure, when I get to see them playing in London 
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      I have been a fan since 1984 when I became an early teen and really started to understand the game. Colts moved to Indianapolis in 1984 and eventhough we stunk for a while, things obviously got better. We traded for Dickerson in 1987 and won the Division, then we had Harbaugh's magical season in 1995, the Peyton ERA where winning 12 games was a piece of cake + winning a SB in 2006, now the Andrew ERA where we have already had 3 11 win seasons and a deep Playoff run.
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