Cut Vinateri

[The Fish]

My gut tells me every time he kicks anymore to be concerned. Thing is I don't think Pat is "better". I dunno, but my head says we can't gain anything by making that move this year.

[ctrlaltdel]

I think that we should give Adam more time before we think about kicking him to the curb. I think we need to believe in him a little more...he's the best we've got.

[Superman]

For the amount of $ he is making, and his lack of Kickoff duties he needs to be making more than 60% of his kicks. Period.

I think people just fail to realize other kickers make game winners as well. There have been about 8 of them in the last 2 weeks.

Money stopped mattering in the AV discussion three weeks ago. His salary for 2012 is now fully guaranteed.

I hate that he's missed the two kicks he's missed this season. They greatly impacted the game, maybe not costing us the win, but definitely making the game different. But we're talking about two kicks, three games in. I'm not worried about his percentage. He's also proven that, not only does have the leg, but also the fortitude, to make big kicks in big situations, including from distance.

[jskinnz]

No one can say for sure what would have happened, had AV not missed the first FG, but statistically we would have been much better off.

You don't do this very well. Face it - you are in over your head.

You said it "crippled" the Colts and back-track with this nonsense. Clearly it did not cripple them to the point where the could not re-take the lead. The fact is we are talking about another AV game winning field goal if the defense can just make the most basic of plays.

[Narcosys]

What i dont understand is why cut him for this missed field goal. Even if he made it, the score would still have been 22-20, and we still would have lost. So....whats your point here man, it makes do difference if he makes it or not. I say CUT OUR ENTIRE SECONDARY, if you want to go that route....but thats childish, so I am not.

[Superman]

What i dont understand is why cut him for this missed field goal. Even if he made it, the score would still have been 22-20, and we still would have lost. So....whats your point here man, it makes do difference if he makes it or not. I say CUT OUR ENTIRE SECONDARY, if you want to go that route....but thats childish, so I am not.

I don't think we should cut him, but the miss changed the game. We should have had a lead, and then the Jags decisions would have changed. Maybe we still would have given up a touchdown after that, but there's no telling.

[House]

Cut him? No not after one missed kick. Should he bare some of the blame for this loss? I don't see why he should be absolved, but you win as a team and lose as a team. Should we cut the whole defense because they allowed the other team to score? No. That's silly.

Should we start looking for Adam's replacement? Certainly. I believe so. He won't be around forever, and I actually thought he would retire 3 years ago or so. So personally I'm impressed by him, but he isn't getting any younger either.

[Narcosys]

I don't think we should cut him, but the miss changed the game. We should have had a lead, and then the Jags decisions would have changed. Maybe we still would have given up a touchdown after that, but there's no telling.

How would it have changed, would they not have still tried to score?

It would have been 17 - 16, they still would have done what they did. Score a TD and try for the 2pt conversion so that another FG would put it in OT.

[IndyTrav]

Money stopped mattering in the AV discussion three weeks ago. His salary for 2012 is now fully guaranteed.

I hate that he's missed the two kicks he's missed this season. They greatly impacted the game, maybe not costing us the win, but definitely making the game different. But we're talking about two kicks, three games in. I'm not worried about his percentage. He's also proven that, not only does have the leg, but also the fortitude, to make big kicks in big situations, including from distance.

I don't disagree. Nor do I ness think he should be cut. It's just I expect better, as we all should. And he deserves, rightfully so, some of the blame. He's not immune to criticism bc his name is Adam V.

And I think he's held in awfully high regard based on plays 8yrs ago. That's my personal opinion.

I'm not worried about 60%, that will go up. It can really only go up. But for the $ I fully expect him to at least be in the Top 10 in % year in and year out. Which is something he's only done once since 2008, which to me, is shocking.

[Narcosys]

I don't disagree. Nor do I ness think he should be cut. It's just I expect better, as we all should. And he deserves, rightfully so, some of the blame. He's not immune to criticism bc his name is Adam V.

And I think he's held in awfully high regard based on plays 8yrs ago. That's my personal opinion.

I'm not worried about 60%, that will go up. It can really only go up. But for the $ I fully expect him to at least be in the Top 10 in % year in and year out. Which is something he's only done once since 2008, which to me, is shocking.

What blame? that field goal would not have won the game. Everyone says it would change the decision making of the Jags. But it would not. They would still have needed to get a TD and 2pt conversion just like they did. It would have only changed the time on the clock. Who can say that with him making it, he would have been set up for that 3rd FG Attempt, maybe that one never would have come around because of clock differences. You cannot say that his kick lost us the game or that it was his blame.

[SilentHill]

You don't do this very well. Face it - you are in over your head.

You said it "crippled" the Colts and back-track with this nonsense. Clearly it did not cripple them to the point where the could not re-take the lead. The fact is we are talking about another AV game winning field goal if the defense can just make the most basic of plays.

Your chasing your tail because i have you outmatched, your even going as far as to ignore multiple points in my post and just harp on the ones you think you have a grasp on, it's time to move on sir. I know I have.

[SilentHill]

What i dont understand is why cut him for this missed field goal. Even if he made it, the score would still have been 22-20, and we still would have lost. So....whats your point here man, it makes do difference if he makes it or not. I say CUT OUR ENTIRE SECONDARY, if you want to go that route....but thats childish, so I am not.

22-20, and we would have been in FG range instead of throwing a jump ball to the end zone, look at it as you will the missed FG probably cost us the game.

[jskinnz]

Your chasing your tail because i have you outmatched, your even going as far as to ignore multiple points in my post and just harp on the ones you think you have a grasp on, it's time to move on sir. I know I have.

Never. Not in a million years have you ever had me outmatched with regards to football. Never.

[SilentHill]

Never. Not in a million years have you ever had me outmatched with regards to football. Never.

LOL

[Narcosys]

22-20, and we would have been in FG range instead of throwing a jump ball to the end zone, look at it as you will the missed FG probably cost us the game.

Your baseing that off if they game went on exactly as it did. With the made field goal it would have changed the field position entirely. More time run down because of more distance to travel. Heck, that 80yrd probably would have been the last play of the game. I can say that the missed FG probably did not cost us the game. I say the injuries and Brown probaly cost us the game.

[SilentHill]

Your baseing that off if they game went on exactly as it did. With the made field goal it would have changed the field position entirely. More time run down because of more distance to travel. Heck, that 80yrd probably would have been the last play of the game. I can say that the missed FG probably did not cost us the game. I say the injuries and Brown probaly cost us the game.

And your basing your hypothesis on him not making the first field goal, If he makes the first field goal the entire dynamic of the game is changed.

[Narcosys]

And your basing your hypothesis on him not making the first field goal, If he makes the first field goal the entire dynamic of the game is changed.

What?!, No. I am basing it off of whether or not he made the one he missed. The 2nd one. The one were talking about. The score with him making it would have been what 16 - 20 at that point? (4:40 left) Field positions would have been different. Time would have been wound down more. Jags would still have to go for a TD and a 2pt conv to make it 23-20. And most likely with time management, could have ensured that there would not be enough time on the clock to allow a FG and force a jump ball. Only difference is jags would have had the ball with more time than they did and gave it back to us with even less time left. I believe we were in a better position to win as it was. Because had he made that FG, and time was different. Jags most likely would have had a lot more time on the clock to work with. Thus allowing them a better opportunity to get the TD. Obviously it was not needed tho.The entire dynamic does change, but not how you would like it. But I don't know, just like you don't. Your just grasping at straws my friend and trying to justify your opinion off of something you cannot prove.

[colt_fan]

I think that Adam can still make some clutch kicks for the Colts, as evidenced by his 50+ yard game winner against the Vikings. I don't think he should be cut.

[SilentHill]

What?!, No. I am basing it off of whether or not he made the one he missed. The 2nd one. The one were talking about. The score with him making it would have been what 16 - 20 at that point? (4:40 left) Field positions would have been different. Time would have been wound down more. Jags would still have to go for a TD and a 2pt conv to make it 23-20. And most likely with time management, could have ensured that there would not be enough time on the clock to allow a FG and force a jump ball. Only difference is jags would have had the ball with more time than they did and gave it back to us with even less time left. I believe we were in a better position to win as it was. Because had he made that FG, and time was different. Jags most likely would have had a lot more time on the clock to work with. Thus allowing them a better opportunity to get the TD. Obviously it was not needed tho.The entire dynamic does change, but not how you would like it. But I don't know, just like you don't. Your just grasping at straws my friend and trying to justify your opinion off of something you cannot prove.

I'm not trying to justify anything, and I'm surely not grasping.

We did force a punt after we missed the FG, we could have easily killed the clock right there and won the game had we made it, but like you said, we will never know.

[ColtsFTW]

[Superman]

How would it have changed, would they not have still tried to score?

It would have been 17 - 16, they still would have done what they did. Score a TD and try for the 2pt conversion so that another FG would put it in OT.

You don't know that they would have scored a touchdown at all. It would have been a different game situation, more time on the clock, they would have still had timeouts, and they might have come out and tried to run it. It might have been 3rd and 6 and Blaine Gabbert is trying to make a game-winning play in a crucial situation, and he gets sacked and fumbles. Everything would have been different.

[GoColts8818]

How would it have changed, would they not have still tried to score?

It would have been 17 - 16, they still would have done what they did. Score a TD and try for the 2pt conversion so that another FG would put it in OT.

It would have changed a great deal. Had we kicked the field goal we give the ball back to them with just under two minutes to go and they would have had all three timeouts and they are behind so they weren't just going to sit on the ball to make us use our timeouts and hope they can get one first down to run out the clock. Based on how they had been moving the ball in the second half the odds are they would have just executed a two minute drill to move down the field and try to set up Scobee to try to hit a game winning field goal. It would have still come down to defense but frankly I'd take our odds of stopping the Jags with no timeouts left and just under a minute to go more than stopping them with two minutes to go with three timeouts. As strange as it might sound you can make a case Adam missing the first kick kinda helped us in a strange way because it put the Jags in theory a more difficult spot to try to make the come back based on how events turned out. We didn't get the job done on defense after that.

[southwest1]

we don't have anyone better cutting him would be a terrible move

I would say we have more worries right now ( O-line ) than replacing the kicker. :slaphead:

Cutting Vinatieri wouldn't really solve anything. Say we did that, and sign Neil Rackers or someone for $1.5 mil.....we save a whole 500K. Not gonna do much for us other than give us another 500K that we can roll into next year.

Exactly, you never cut someone when you have nothing to replace them with and our squad has bigger voids to full on our roster than FG kickers. Plus, Adam's salary is a small number on the Colts fiscal books anyway. Adam stays put IMO.

[Superman]

Exactly, you never cut someone when you have nothing to replace them with and our squad has bigger voids to full on our roster than FG kickers. Plus, Adam's salary is a small number on the Colts fiscal books anyway. Adam stays put IMO.

His salary is now guaranteed for the year, so you wouldn't save anything.

[Narcosys]

It would have changed a great deal. Had we kicked the field goal we give the ball back to them with just under two minutes to go and they would have had all three timeouts and they are behind so they weren't just going to sit on the ball to make us use our timeouts and hope they can get one first down to run out the clock. Based on how they had been moving the ball in the second half the odds are they would have just executed a two minute drill to move down the field and try to set up Scobee to try to hit a game winning field goal. It would have still come down to defense but frankly I'd take our odds of stopping the Jags with no timeouts left and just under a minute to go more than stopping them with two minutes to go with three timeouts. As strange as it might sound you can make a case Adam missing the first kick kinda helped us in a strange way because it put the Jags in theory a more difficult spot to try to make the come back based on how events turned out. We didn't get the job done on defense after that.

That is exactly what i was saying. We were in a better position to win compared to had he made it.

[SilentHill]

Now can we cut him? Please?

[jvan1973]

Now can we cut him? Please?

he missed a fifty plus fg.. he isn't getting cut because there isn't anyone better than him available..

[lester]

When did we re-sign Vanderjagt?

[colts1993]

It's time for him to go..

[1959Colts]

As I have stated before, I have zero confidence in Vinateri.

[Andy]

53 yarder guys... give me and him a break.

[GoColts8818]

Man i sure hope if we ever do replace Adam that the guy who is brought in leads us to Super Bowls and is the missing peace to our team because the way so many are harking on Adam this year you would think he is the ONLY thing wrong with the team. Frankly on this miss I am more worried about the o-line that gave up a sack to make it a 50 yard field goal in the first place. Our line struggles and the fact our defense hasn't had an INT since the second series of the season has a lot more to do with this team struggling than our kicker does.

It was from beyond 50 yards Adam is 50% on those in his career. Frankly he hasn't missed from that far recently he was do but I know people are out with their torches going after Adam so have at it and ignore the fact that this team has MUCH MUCH bigger issues right now than kicker.

[House]

53 yarder guys... give me and him a break.

That's a long kick, but it's not THAT long.

Let me clarify I am not one of those asking for Adam's head, but it's not like he was kicking a 60+ yarder.

[jemack]

he missed a fifty plus fg.. he isn't getting cut because there isn't anyone better than him available..

How 'bout they trade a 1st rounder for Janikowski

[antipatriot]

I know everyone loves to think of the glory days with AV but he has been nothing but an average kicker for the last 3 seasons, if I had my way we would have cut him last year for sure, he has not been reliable from 42 or beyond for at least 3 years, this should be our last year with AV time to look to the future and stop being blind via the past

Go Colts

[OLD FAN MAN]

I think that we should give Adam more time before we think about kicking him to the curb. I think we need to believe in him a little more...he's the best we've got.

kickers go in slumps , but they can kick when they are old, i get disgusted when he misses but he will get it going again

[Fx Stryker]

How y'all feel now?

[jvan1973]

are the packers gonna cut crosby?

[IndyTrav]

are the packers gonna cut crosby?

Well, he's missed 1 all year....Vinnys missed 1 already today......

One has a booming leg, is young, plays in terrible conditions, and does both KOs and FGs, and whose short career is 2% less accurate than the other.....

[FanFromtheWasteland]

How many passes has T.Y. dropped today? Are we going to cut him too?