Smoke screen or smoke signal?

[stitches]

Here's new series I'm starting and everybody is welcome to participate in the ones already posted or to post their own pieces of news that has leaked in the media during this month of smokescreens.  I guess for the purposes of the exercise I would define smokescreen as a piece of information that the team has released in order to fool other teams or the media/fans about their true intentions, while a smoke signal would be piece of information that was leaked that conveyed truthful intention or interest by the team. The first piece of news I want to put to the vote of Colts fans is this: 

 

The factual part of the tweet is not under question here. The Colts indeed worked out Levis today and all those coaches and FO people were at the workout. BUT... here comes the interesting part - this is the only workout the Colts have had where the whole travelling party was published by a media source. So the question is... is this smoke screen or is it smoke signal? 

 

Is this the Colts releasing this info with the intention of making other teams believe they have more serious interest in Levis than they actually do? Or is it a smokesignal - i.e. Colts' interest is indeed special in Levis and the huge travelling party to Kentucky is truthful representation of intent? 

 

What say you, Colts fans? Smoke screen or smoke signal? 

[Dingus McGirt]

Was it a closed workout?  If so, who were the sources that “leaked” the details?  

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Was it a closed workout?  If so, who “leaked” the details?  

It's supposed to be closed... no idea who leaked it... that's part of the fun guessing... if it was the Colts that leaked it, it might have been with the intention of making other teams think we are interested in Levis more than we actually are. If it's from Levis' side... they might have their own agenda... 

[Dingus McGirt]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

It's supposed to be closed... no idea who leaked it... that's part of the fun guessing... if it was the Colts that leaked it, it might have been with the intention of making other teams think we are interested in Levis more than we actually are. If it's from Levis' side... they might have their own agenda... 

True, either way.  Would seem a bit over top to send all those key players as a ruse, however.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Yeah without knowing more info it’s hard to tell. Did colts tell Richardson agent not to leak anything therefore his workout was not released. Or does Levis just have a bigger agency who is just better at getting stuff out. Ot third did colts release it to throw off teams and they want Richardson. 
 

I really don’t think they know yet. Next three weeks will be fun. We are almost there. I just find it hard to believe colts would take the time to send out that Levis stuff to throw off teams. Everyone knows they are most likely taking Levis or Richardson. Ballard could also be using Richardsons agent like chiefs used mahomes agent.

[twfish]

It’s a top 30 visit so I believe it has to be announced/made public. The only interesting part is everyone attending, no other visit had everyone there I believe. I think it’s a smoke screen though to try and keep anyone jumping us for Richardson

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, twfish said:

It’s a top 30 visit so I believe it has to be announced/made public. The only interesting part is everyone attending, no other visit had everyone there I believe. I think it’s a smoke screen though to try and keep anyone jumping us for Richardson

No it wasn’t a top 30 visit. It was a private workout in Lexington. 
 

 

[Smonroe]

We've been hearing all last college season that the Colts were heavily scouting Levis.  Doesn't mean they haven't done the same type of research with AR or the other QBs.  

 

But I think Levis is the front runner for us right now (assuming Stroud and Young are gone).  

 

I'm just wondering, and I've already started a thread on this, if Houston decides they want a big QB and take either AR or Levis - will the Colts take Young or the one that Houston doesn't take.  (I made the assumptions that Stroud went 1, and AZ didn't trade their pick.

 

I'm on record saying Young is the best QB in this draft.  But I'd take Stroud, who's a hair behind but a lot bigger.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

We've been hearing all last college season that the Colts were heavily scouting Levis.  Doesn't mean they haven't done the same type of research with AR or the other QBs.  

 

But I think Levis is the front runner for us right now (assuming Stroud and Young are gone).  

 

I'm just wondering, and I've already started a thread on this, if Houston decides they want a big QB and take either AR or Levis - will the Colts take Young or the one that Houston doesn't take.  (I made the assumptions that Stroud went 1, and AZ didn't trade their pick.

 

I'm on record saying Young is the best QB in this draft.  But I'd take Stroud, who's a hair behind but a lot bigger.

For what it’s worth it seems they did just as much on AR last year. George Bremer said he heard of them scouting AR hard last OCT. 

[Smonroe]

10 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

For what it’s worth it seems they did just as much on AR last year. George Bremer said he heard of them scouting AR hard last OCT. 

 

This is going to be the most fun draft that I can remember.   Usually we're either picking late or traded the pick.  Pre-draft  2018 there was some drama over who it would be, Nelson or Chubb.  But once Chubb was gone, we pretty much knew it was Nelson.

 

The last time we wondered who the QB would be in the draft was Peyton.  Let's make the right choice again Ballard!

 

Get your popcorn ready!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

This is going to be the most fun draft that I can remember.   Usually we're either picking late or traded the pick.  Pre-draft  2018 there was some drama over who it would be, Nelson or Chubb.  But once Chubb was gone, we pretty much knew it was Nelson.

 

The last time we wondered who the QB would be in the draft was Peyton.  Let's make the right choice again Ballard!

 

Get your popcorn ready!

I am just glad we get to hopefully put this cycle of vets to bed. Hopefully colts aren’t so blinded by Richardsons traits they  don’t ask the hard questions about how long got him to develop or if he will develop. They will probably know which one by next week after all these private workouts. 

[richard pallo]

8 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

This is going to be the most fun draft that I can remember.   Usually we're either picking late or traded the pick.  Pre-draft  2018 there was some drama over who it would be, Nelson or Chubb.  But once Chubb was gone, we pretty much knew it was Nelson.

 

The last time we wondered who the QB would be in the draft was Peyton.  Let's make the right choice again Ballard!

 

Get your popcorn ready!

I’m hoping we trade the pick.  Still plenty of time for that.

[Smonroe]

Just now, richard pallo said:

I’m hoping we trade the pick.  Still plenty of time for that.

 

And then do what?

[richard pallo]

11 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

And then do what?

Make a pick with the next pick.

[azcolt]

23 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

And then do what?

Sign Carson Wentz who was released. Jim Irsay continues to shock and awe.

[DaColts85]

They said it was a private workout so I would say more smoke signal than anything. They probably see him as a guy that will be there at 4 and want to do all the due diligence as possible. Would not be shocked if they do the same with Richardson sometime soon. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Going to throw a twist in here after talking to another colts fan. Had not even thought about this. It’s all the SI guys saying they think it’s Richardson. What if that is Richardsons agent pushing AR.  

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am just glad we get to hopefully put this cycle of vets to bed. Hopefully colts aren’t so blinded by Richardsons traits they  don’t ask the hard questions about how long got him to develop or if he will develop. They will probably know which one by next week after all these private workouts. 

Im not saying the Colts won’t be wowed by AR’s spectacular traits and skills…..     

 

BUT…….    
 

The Colts NOT asking the hard questions?!?    I’d put that as a 0.0 percent chance.   Or lower.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Im not saying the Colts won’t be wowed by AR’s spectacular traits and skills…..     

 

BUT…….    
 

The Colts NOT asking the hard questions?!?    I’d put that as a 0.0 percent chance.   Or lower.  

I actually can give you instances Ballard has done this. Now it wasn’t at QB. But he has a habit of taking high upside traits and passing on good football players. Ben Banogu is a good example of this. I don’t think Steichen will let this happen though. And QB position is much different then a different position.

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I actually can give you instances Ballard has done this. Now it wasn’t at QB. But he has a habit of taking high upside traits and passing on good football players. Ben Banogu is a good example of this. I don’t think Steichen will let this happen though. And QB position is much different then a different position.

Those aren’t examples of not asking hard questions.  They were simply wrong.   It doesn’t mean questions weren’t asked.   That’s your opinion.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It’s very possible this info came from the university of KY not colts or Levis camp.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

15 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Those aren’t examples of not asking hard questions.  They were simply wrong.   It doesn’t mean questions weren’t asked.   That’s your opinion.  

No because I gave you proof Ballard sometimes will take high traits over good football players. Now maybe that means they do ask themselves the hard questions but Ballard has a history of doing it.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

56 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

No because I gave you proof Ballard sometimes will take high traits over good football players. Now maybe that means they do ask themselves the hard questions but Ballard has a history of doing it.

Ballard has a history of having lot of criteria like RAS, hand size and other physical attributes, and so on for different position groups.. so I get what you're saying. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Ballard has a history of having lot of criteria like RAS, hand size and other physical attributes, and so on for different position groups.. so I get what you're saying. 

Sometimes there is no reason to overthink things and just take the one that is good at football. 

[ProblChld32]

Unless you personally know someone in the building and you hear any information come directly out of their mouths you have to assume everything is a smoke screen. They aren’t going to subtly give away their draft plans or hint at the direction they plan on going. That would place them at a major disadvantage come draft day.

[RollerColt]

Signal in my book. This is the guy they’ve been watching for years. At one point a year ago they probably thought they wouldn’t have a chance to draft him. Here we are. 

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

No because I gave you proof Ballard sometimes will take high traits over good football players. Now maybe that means they do ask themselves the hard questions but Ballard has a history of doing it.

They are all good football players

[ChuggaBeer]

It's funny how everyone thinks Ballard is too conservative and quotes that he take chances on guys with big upside (RAS).  

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

No because I gave you proof Ballard sometimes will take high traits over good football players. Now maybe that means they do ask themselves the hard questions but Ballard has a history of doing it.

Taking high traits over a proven college player is not an example of not asking tough questions.   It’s an example of making the wrong decision.   
 

This is not unique to Ballard.  Plenty of GMs take athletic freaks that still need lots of coaching.  Because you can’t teach the athletic skills that they have.  But you can teach them how to play football better with good coaching.   NFL teams are always trying to max out their player’s talent.    And sometimes a college player is not going to get much better.   Either because he’s already been coached up well, or his physical limitations put a natural ceiling in how good they can ever become.

 

[BlueShoe]

Some of you guys argue about nothing. 
 

As far as the question from the OP, I think it’s all of the above. 
 

The Colts have the 4th pick, and there are 5 quarterbacks in the mix. It’s all a matter of how the board is stacked, and how it falls. 

 

All 32 teams will have these QBs ranked differently. I think Young is at the top of our board and I think AR is at the top of the Seahawks board. The rest… it’s hard to get a good read on some of it. 

[Smonroe]

27 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

Some of you guys argue about nothing. 
 

As far as the question from the OP, I think it’s all of the above. 
 

The Colts have the 4th pick, and there are 5 quarterbacks in the mix. It’s all a matter of how the board is stacked, and how it falls. 

 

All 32 teams will have these QBs ranked differently. I think Young is at the top of our board and I think AR is at the top of the Seahawks board. The rest… it’s hard to get a good read on some of it. 

It’s a true moot point, but that’s what we do here, right?  No one has any insight to what the Colts are thinking.   And no one can predict which QB will succeed or fail.  
 

But the fact that the Colts sent a big group to watch one QB and maybe one coach to watch others is interesting to say the least.  Makes for a fun discussion for the next three weeks.

 

I will disagree with you about the Seahawks having AR at the top of their board.  Unless you mean they have him after Stroud and Young and they assume they’re gone by their pick.  I will be shocked if he goes before either of those two.  

[Indeee]

I know this has zero to do with what @stitches intended with this thread, however I feel a need to remind everyone here about Ballard. @NewColtsFan who is a stickler for mentioning what Ballard says or how he habitually acts should agree here, at least at some degree.

 

When speaking of Talent (good football players as @Restinpeacesweetchloe would call it) vs. Potential (high traits), Ballard has gone on the record in his early first years as stating that he believes more in the coaching (player growth) then he does in the growth already flourished.

 

Using the "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown" example. Ballard is more like Charlie Brown here. He bypasses the bright shiny commercial trees (players with already developed talent) as they cost too much and everybody is enamored with them and heads straight for the misfit tree that's virtually free because in his eyes that tree has mad potential. Plus no one else wants it/sees it, whereas everyone is fighting over the bright shiny trees. Then he hands that misfit tree off to the coaching staff ( Linus ) in hopes that the coaches will wrap a blanket around them and vwallah! An awesome little tree that has flourished into a great spectacle that everyone in the peanuts/Colts gang is happy with.  

 

In all seriousness, this really is Ballard's habit, 90% of the time and for me personally I'm getting sick of it. In fact, it's ruining my off seasons, i.e., Christmas Mornings. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's a bad philosophy, but in the case of the Colts, it just has not panned out enough to matter. <This is truth.

 

I myself as a fan am not interested in player development and watching misfit trees grow into greatness. I care about watching/having my team win games. Scoring points! A lot of points! So, I, like many here are frustrated because none of these trees are cultivating quick enough, so what's the answer?

 

Go get trees that have already been cultivated. Do they cost more? Yes, but in the end who cares as long as we win games. I mean that is why we are here right?

 

Some might love the growth of players and the benefits that come from that. Such as Raiman, but while he cultivates why can't it be done while Tyreek Hill is putting up 100 yards a game. Some, like me, could care less, and just want the benefits no matter how we get there. All I'm saying is that we have been doing this Ballard cultivating "little trains that could" for 6 years now and we haven't even won the division.

 

This is why I do not want Levis or Richardson and hope that it's a SMOKESCREEN. Reason? I think Levis and Richardson again will be a delayed gratification lesson taking more than just a year to develop, if at all.

 

I hope I'm wrong about the player whoever is selected, but I'm not wrong about Ballard's tendencies and his philosophy. If each of us understands that we could easily see what his intentions normally are when he selects these guys or that are projects over proven guys. 

 

Sorry if I derailed your post @stitches

 

-Peace

 

 

 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Indeee said:

I know this has zero to do with what @stitches intended with this thread, however I feel a need to remind everyone here about Ballard. @NewColtsFan who is a stickler for mentioning what Ballard says or how he habitually acts should agree here, at least at some degree.

 

When speaking of Talent (good football players as @Restinpeacesweetchloe would call it) vs. Potential (high traits), Ballard has gone on the record in his early first years as stating that he believes more in the coaching (player growth) then he does in the growth already flourished.

 

Using the "Merry Christmas Charlie Brown" example. Ballard is more like Charlie Brown here. He bypasses the bright shiny commercial trees (players with already developed talent) as they cost too much and everybody is enamored with them and heads straight for the misfit tree that's virtually free because in his eyes that tree has mad potential. Plus no one else wants it/sees it, whereas everyone is fighting over the bright shiny trees. Then he hands that misfit tree off to the coaching staff ( Linus ) in hopes that the coaches will wrap a blanket around them and vwallah! An awesome little tree that has flourished into a great spectacle that everyone in the peanuts/Colts gang is happy with.  

 

In all seriousness, this really is Ballard's habit, 90% of the time and for me personally I'm getting sick of it. In fact, it's ruining my off seasons, i.e., Christmas Mornings. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's a bad philosophy, but in the case of the Colts, it just has not panned out enough to matter. <This is truth.

 

I myself as a fan am not interested in player development and watching misfit trees grow into greatness. I care about watching/having my team win games. Scoring points! A lot of points! So, I, like many here are frustrated because none of these trees are cultivating quick enough, so what's the answer?

 

Go get trees that have already been cultivated. Do they cost more? Yes, but in the end who cares as long as we win games. I mean that is why we are here right?

 

Some might love the growth of players and the benefits that come from that. Such as Raiman, but while he cultivates why can't it be done while Tyreek Hill is putting up 100 yards a game. Some, like me, could care less, and just want the benefits no matter how we get there. All I'm saying is that we have been doing this Ballard cultivating "little trains that could" for 6 years now and we haven't even won the division.

 

This is why I do not want Levis or Richardson and hope that it's a SMOKESCREEN. Reason? I think Levis and Richardson again will be a delayed gratification lesson taking more than just a year to develop, if at all.

 

I hope I'm wrong about the player whoever is selected, but I'm not wrong about Ballard's tendencies and his philosophy. If each of us understands that we could easily see what his intentions normally are when he selects these guys or that are projects over proven guys. 

 

Sorry if I derailed your post @stitches

 

-Peace

 

 

 

 

 

Great post. I think this is the reason Ballard has had really good success with later round draft picks. Because when it comes to later round he will tend to go away from traits like size and take kids who were just good at football. Like Rodgers. He will take smaller guys who don’t fit traits in the later rounds.

 

I feel confident whichever QB we get Steichen will get the one he wants. I was listening to keefer on the radio yesterday morning and I just find it hard it’s going be Richardson. If he takes Richardson it will only because that RAS score.

 

I do not agree about Levis here. He is ready to play week one.

[Indeee]

43 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Great post. I think this is the reason Ballard has had really good success with later round draft picks. Because when it comes to later round he will tend to go away from traits like size and take kids who were just good at football. Like Rodgers. He will take smaller guys who don’t fit traits in the later rounds.

 

I feel confident whichever QB we get Steichen will get the one he wants. I was listening to keefer on the radio yesterday morning and I just find it hard it’s going be Richardson. If he takes Richardson it will only because that RAS score.

 

I do not agree about Levis here. He is ready to play week one.

If that ends up being the pick, I hope you are right, and I will gladly be wrong. I'm just not liking the Jeff George comparisons. That scares me. Been there done that. 

 

If you remember the Colts history, it was Jeff George, who was drafted after years of failed QB attempts in-between Bert Jones and Harbough, who we as fans thought was finally going to get us a stable franchise QB and it was a nightmare. 

 

If it turns out to be Levis.....  

 

 

[Hawkeyecolt]

The Colts jet was in Gainesville the day before.  I can only assume the same contingent of Colts’ brass were there as well to see AR at his private workout. To answer the original question I would have to know who leaked the information and if it were a leak at all. 
 

It was announced early in the week what day the Colts would be working out Levis. We didn’t really hear about what day Richardson’s workout would be until photos of the Colts jet in Gainesville surfaced on Wednesday. 
 

If the Colts purposely leaked who was in Kentucky I would say smokescreen. If they were just spotted and asked who was there by NFL or Kentucky media I would say neither assuming the same group of employees were in Gainesville. 

[Hawkeyecolt]

20 minutes ago, Indeee said:

If that ends up being the pick, I hope you are right, and I will gladly be wrong. I'm just not liking the Jeff George comparisons. That scares me. Been there done that. 

 

If you remember the Colts history, it was Jeff George, who was drafted after years of failed QB attempts in-between Bert Jones and Harbough, who we as fans thought was finally going to get us a stable franchise QB and it was a nightmare. 

 

If it turns out to be Levis.....  

 

 

George was drafted before Harbaugh.  In fact, Harbaugh was so mediocre he couldn’t keep Majkowski off the field in 1994 and the Colts went out and signed Craig Erickson to replace him. Harbaugh came off the bench because Erickson stunk and played out of his mind for 1995 and most of 1996. He reverted back to his past play in 1997. Peyton was drafted in 1998. 

[Indeee]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

George was drafted before Harbaugh.  In fact, Harbaugh was so mediocre he couldn’t keep Majkowski off the field in 1994 and the Colts went out and signed Craig Erickson to replace him. Harbaugh came off the bench because Erickson stunk and played out of his mind for 1995 and most of 1996. He reverted back to his past play in 1997. Peyton was drafted in 1998. 

My friend, that's what I said. Re-read what I wrote. I stated George in-between Jones and Harbough. I'm not saying Harbough was great, I'm saying compared to all the others in-between Jones and Manning, Harbough was the best. 

[Superman]

18 hours ago, stitches said:

I guess for the purposes of the exercise I would define smokescreen as a piece of information that the team has released in order to fool other teams or the media/fans about their true intentions, while a smoke signal would be piece of information that was leaked that conveyed truthful intention or interest by the team.

 

I don't think it's either of these, because I don't think the Colts leaked this info about Levis' workout. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It probably came from the KY campus.

[PRnum1]

If it took place at the KY practice facility I think anyone can look through the fence and watch the workout.

 

Then someone probably tweeted it.

 

But for Colts to send so many people I think its a smoke signal