Convince me that I'm wrong about the current state of the Colts vs. the AFC elite

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Goatface Killah said:

I dont even think thats comparable. Luck was a great player from day 1 and ran a full offense.

 

They have training wheels on Lance, he is on a stacked team, and he still cant be a productive QB.

 

 

Luck’s rookie season would look pedestrian in 2022.

 

Or look at Josh Allen’s rookie year…52%. Or Jalen Hurts…same. 
 

It’s hard to write off a young QB who has only thrown 100 passes in two years in his career. 
 

 

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

The Chiefs skill group is misleading though, because aside from Kelce they don’t have any alpha’s. But again, I think there is a blueprint for what consistently wins in today’s NFL. And if you extend it and look at the skill groups for some of the teams that were eliminated like the Bucs, Dolphins, and Bills you’ll see they also have top tier guys at those positions.

 

 

It should also be noted how much each team invested in FA and player trades. Ballard needs to get more than JAG at WR. We’re at least good at RB. Woods shows promise as a Giseckei type TE as well.

 

Again, Ballard will have to change his approach if he wants to catch up. His philosophy for team building that he’s been employing for 6 years has not and likely will not yield the type of players we need to be a real contender.

But he’s a super mega alpha.  Perhaps the most unguardable pass catcher in the league right now.  The other guys are good enough to go with him but Kelce is fantastic.  
 

most of my posts I try to write pass catcher instead of receiver because I don’t think it matters if the guy is a TE or WR, but you need at least one supermegastud stud IMo.

 

we don’t have one.  If you paired our guys with one it would change my mind about our talent.  the talent is good enough if joined by a super duper star like Kelce or Diggs or Chase, but not near good enough without one of these guys.

 

Until I see different, the evidence seems to show that teams need an elite pass catcher that are true contenders.  We don’t have one.  We don’t have a Qb.  We don’t have really good EDgE rusher.  And our oline is poor.

 

we aren’t that close. We need luck to be good in less than 3-4 years.  We need our pick at QB to be a star quickly, and we need to have a superstar pass catcher.  I also feel our average type D needs an EDGE rusher because Buckner is no Aaron Donald.  He’s a really good player but he needs to be Donald to make up for the lack of EDGe rusher and he not anyone else or ever had been.

 

so here we are.  We need only 4 guys to be elite, but those positions just happen to be the 4 hardest to fill.  So yeah to be good before 25 or 26 we are going to need to hit 4 jackpots.  Quickly too.  Raimann also must improve a lot, q must be elite again, Gilmore will most likely be gone or diminished by then, etc etc etc etc.

 

that requires massive amounts of good fortune.  

[OLD FAN MAN]

5 hours ago, coltsva said:

Good topic Indee. I'll go counterpoint. I think the Colts are a good coach and a good QB away from being on par with the Bills, Fish, Chargers, Jags. 

 

AFC elite is Chiefs & Bengals. Bills are not elite, they are wanna be elite. Chargers, Dolphins, Jags are all average. 

 

This is not a gauntlet of great football teams.

This is:

One team with a great QB. a great TE, and HOF coach.

One team with a great QB and great weapons. 

One team with a very good to great QB and a great WR who may not be worth his yards. 

Three teams who for the most part have played average football with their current group of players (I'm not anointing the Jags anything until they go better that 9-8),

 

 

 

 

 

 

trevor will be elite next season it took peyton a few seasons trevor will excell next season and the jags will be the team to beat for the division

[Goatface Killah]

1 hour ago, shasta519 said:

Luck’s rookie season would look pedestrian in 2022.

 

Or look at Josh Allen’s rookie year…52%. Or Jalen Hurts…same. 
 

It’s hard to write off a young QB who has only thrown 100 passes in two years in his career. 
 

 

Hes only thrown 100 passes in 2 years for a reason lol

 

4300 yards and 7 game winning drives is hardly pedestrian. 

 

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

But he’s a super mega alpha.  Perhaps the most unguardable pass catcher in the league right now.  The other guys are good enough to go with him but Kelce is fantastic.  
 

most of my posts I try to write pass catcher instead of receiver because I don’t think it matters if the guy is a TE or WR, but you need at least one supermegastud stud IMo.

 

we don’t have one.  If you paired our guys with one it would change my mind about our talent.  the talent is good enough if joined by a super duper star like Kelce or Diggs or Chase, but not near good enough without one of these guys.

 

Until I see different, the evidence seems to show that teams need an elite pass catcher that are true contenders.  We don’t have one.  We don’t have a Qb.  We don’t have really good EDgE rusher.  And our oline is poor.

 

we aren’t that close. We need luck to be good in less than 3-4 years.  We need our pick at QB to be a star quickly, and we need to have a superstar pass catcher.  I also feel our average type D needs an EDGE rusher because Buckner is no Aaron Donald.  He’s a really good player but he needs to be Donald to make up for the lack of EDGe rusher and he not anyone else or ever had been.

 

so here we are.  We need only 4 guys to be elite, but those positions just happen to be the 4 hardest to fill.  So yeah to be good before 25 or 26 we are going to need to hit 4 jackpots.  Quickly too.  Raimann also must improve a lot, q must be elite again, Gilmore will most likely be gone or diminished by then, etc etc etc etc.

 

that requires massive amounts of good fortune.  

Very well said. We are years away. 3-4 years is even a stretch if it’s with the usual Ballard method. In reality 4-5 is more likely if he doesn’t make changes to his team building strategy/philosophy.

 

Can’t afford any setbacks either because it’s been 6 years already, and the misses within that time frame are why we’re here now. Can’t miss on  drafts picks.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

13 hours ago, Indeee said:

Let's have an honest, open-minded discussion here:

 

My take.

 

While most are excited with anticipation of our new HC/Staff and pondering over which QB would best fit our team, I can't help but have a much wider lens. 

 

When I think of the next decade in the AFC, I'm not seeing where the Colts can actually make a splash at all with this current roster, especially offensively. Yes, this team needs a QB, at least a stable one in the worst way but this offense from the skill positions is putrid. It's nowhere close to being elite. In fact, I would say that this year's draft should be entirely offense for the first 4-5 rounds and I'm not talking about drafting O-line or RB. 

 

Outside of JT, who on this offense scares defenses? I mean look at our competition.

 

Bengals: Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and Hurst.

 

Chiefs: Mahomes, Kelce, Mckinnon, Pacheo, Toney, Schuster, and Scantling/Hardman.

 

Bills: Allen, Diggs, Davis, McKensie, Knox, and Singletary.

 

Jags: Lawrence, Ridley, Kirk, Ettiene, Jones, and Engram.

 

Chargers: Herbert, Allen, Williams, Eckler, Palmer, and Everette. 

 

Dolphins: Tua, Waddle, Hill, Mostert, and Geseki. 

 

That is a gauntlet, and the Dolphins, Bills, and Chiefs are the least stacked IMHO, albeit still highly dangerous. 

 

Is Pittman, Campbell, and Pierce anywhere near what our competition already has in place at WR? I mean these guys struggle to gain separation most days. There are some on here actually suggesting that Pittman be traded. Who knows? It might just happen. Ballard himself basically recently eluded that Pittman is not a number one, something all of us should have known when he was drafted, heck i for one said it, and Pierce is terrible. Pierce is a WR3, if. 

 

Does anyone on here think Jelani Woods is a "Move" tight end? Meaning, is Jelani in the mold from a route running/quickness standpoint as Engram or Kelce or Everette? If he is, he isn't/hasn't been used that way and wouldn't most agree that if a player shows that type of skill in a practice standpoint that the team would try to utilize that in game? 

 

I think sometimes we as fans get caught up in what I call "fool's gold football".  We are so hopeful and forgiving that we stop using our eyes and instead, see with our minds. We start playing the what if game that's always predicated on what our minds are seeing in terms of hoping what our team can be. We lose sight of what it actually is.  Unfortunately, this has happened to a lot of us on this forum for the past few years and here we are. Most times I get crucified on here but I'm a realist. 

 

When Peyton was here, other than the Chargers always having our number, it was just the Patriots we had to worry about normally. Not now. Now there is at least 6 teams, and the Steelers are close to entering that mix with Pickett, Harris, Pickens, Johnson, and Friermuth.

 

I'm sorry, but this Colts team is years away from entering that gauntlet with this current offensive roster. Can the Colts win a game here and there, sure, but this team is nowhere near competing for a SB anytime soon. Again, this about winning Super Bowls, and we can't even win the division. 

 

Yes, we need a stable QB, however without a formidable skill tree around that QB, we are just spinning wheels. Where is that Skill tree going to come from? 

 

This team is in trouble, and it will take at least 3-4 more years to get somewhat close without an awful lot of luck. Ballard built this team for the 80's style of play and unfortunately it might have set us back that long. 

 

Convince me I'm wrong. Seriously. I'm trying to make waves here; the waters are already extremely choppy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, unfortunately your not wrong. 

 

I said it a few years back when Luck retired that the colts are probably heading back to the Dark Ages, the two decades before Manning and Polian. 

And having the Three Stooges(Reich,Ballard,Irsay) in charge wasn't going to right the ship. 

 

If they could have hired a Top HC and hit on a QB in the Draft, that would have been a major step in the right direction. But not getting a Harbaugh or Payton was expected but still a realistic blow to this teams fans. They are left with ho-hum candidates that can only excite the the extreme optimistic fans with the Rosiest Colored Glasses. Some of us are REALIST and know better.

 

And then there's still the job left on hitting on a QB. 

 

To me lacking on weapons is less concerning than not having a Top HC & elite QB. Weapons are easier to acquire, easier that is if Ballard wasn't the GM. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

Very well said. We are years away. 3-4 years is even a stretch if it’s with the usual Ballard method. In reality 4-5 is more likely if he doesn’t make changes to his team building strategy/philosophy.

 

Can’t afford any setbacks either because it’s been 6 years already, and the misses within that time frame are why we’re here now. Can’t miss on  drafts picks.

 

I don't think, Ballard will be here 4-5 more years? 

In all likelihood we will have another bad season in '23 and maybe '24 too. If Reich gets another gig, then Irsay will be obligated to pay him less  than what he is contracted to do. I think a major reason Ballard was retained was for financial reasons, it certainly wasn't because of his performance. Lol. 

So if Irsay doesn't have to pay Reich, then it will be financially more feasible to acquire a new GM.  

[ShuteAt168]

Winning a Super Bowl isn’t even on my radar right now. Give me a good rookie QB who shows signs of being a star and a coaching staff that gets us heading in the right direction and I’ll be happy for a while. I just want HOPE of better days ahead so I can enjoy the games again. My negativity comes from the doubt that Ballard can make enough correct decisions to put us on the path to contending because there’s little evidence he can. But whatever, I’ll still be wearing Colts gear regardless. 

[stitches]

18 hours ago, csmopar said:

The right coach, the right QB and we’re in it. The bengals went from 1-15 to the AFCCG last year and now this year with just those two big changes. Plus anything can happen to those teams currently better than us as well. 

The Bengals went from no QB, and WR3 to quite possibly the best QB in the league, quite possibly the best WR in the league and quite possibly the best WR2 in the league. Then they completely overhauled their OL and DL, added talent at DB and TE. It wasn't as simple as just get the QB and HC and you are good. 

[AwesomeAustin]

New coach and QB means new system to build around.  We are 2-3 years away at minimum before we can really know what this team need to compete for a SB. In 3 years half of last years starters may not even be on the team. I’m not going to try and predict what we need bc we will need a lot.  Wait and see who our coaches are and how they use players.  Then we should have an idea of what we need.  

[csmopar]

34 minutes ago, stitches said:

The Bengals went from no QB, and WR3 to quite possibly the best QB in the league, quite possibly the best WR in the league and quite possibly the best WR2 in the league. Then they completely overhauled their OL and DL, added talent at DB and TE. It wasn't as simple as just get the QB and HC and you are good. 

Yes but our DL is good. Our Lb corp is better than they had at the time and our DBs are serviceable.  OL needs a bit of work yes. We do need one more playmaker at WR. I think our TE picture is unclear, we just never used them except on rare occasions other than to block. 
 

all in all, I agree we’re at least 2 years away IF we hit on a QB in this draft. But I also don’t think we’re in need of a total rebuild. More like an upgrade stage at a few positions which I think we can probably do this year IF we are smart and lucky at the same time. Assuming we also hit on a good HC

[csmopar]

5 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I don't think, Ballard will be here 4-5 more years? 

In all likelihood we will have another bad season in '23 and maybe '24 too. If Reich gets another gig, then Irsay will be obligated to pay him less  than what he is contracted to do. I think a major reason Ballard was retained was for financial reasons, it certainly wasn't because of his performance. Lol. 

So if Irsay doesn't have to pay Reich, then it will be financially more feasible to acquire a new GM.  

This financial thing needs to stop. None of that would bother Irsay or even notice the hit to his wallet. It did not stop him from firing Grigson or Pagano or Polian or Caldwell etc. 

[Nickster]

53 minutes ago, stitches said:

The Bengals went from no QB, and WR3 to quite possibly the best QB in the league, quite possibly the best WR in the league and quite possibly the best WR2 in the league. Then they completely overhauled their OL and DL, added talent at DB and TE. It wasn't as simple as just get the QB and HC and you are good. 

And they were able to get those weapons by being very bad too.  

[shasta519]

9 hours ago, Goatface Killah said:

Hes only thrown 100 passes in 2 years for a reason lol

 

4300 yards and 7 game winning drives is hardly pedestrian. 

 

Yes. The reasons were because he was a 21 year-old rookie, who was a year removed from playing…and then he got hurt early in Week 2 the following season. 
 

 

[Defjamz26]

7 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

I don't think, Ballard will be here 4-5 more years? 

In all likelihood we will have another bad season in '23 and maybe '24 too. If Reich gets another gig, then Irsay will be obligated to pay him less  than what he is contracted to do. I think a major reason Ballard was retained was for financial reasons, it certainly wasn't because of his performance. Lol. 

So if Irsay doesn't have to pay Reich, then it will be financially more feasible to acquire a new GM.  

I can’t say I firmly see Ballard being the long term GM here. He has a lot of positives, but I’m not sure his philosophy on team building will ever lead to the Colts having a REAL Super Bowl caliber roster.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

19 hours ago, Goatface Killah said:

So you dont follow them close enough to know about Lance?

 

So why do you act like you know so much about the rest of their team?

 

I watch the 49ers a lot. They are a very solid team top to bottom and are extremely well coached. I think their defense is way better than their offense personally. But they are good on both sides of the ball which is probably the real reason they are so successful.

 

I believe they were 6th in total offense this year, right behind the offensive juggernaut known as the mighty Detroit Lions with their deep and impressive collection of skill players.

 

Qb play and coaching is probably 75% of it.

 

 

Most of the time, the truth is in the common ground. 

 

It could be true that with right QB and right coach, Colts could be very much a contender. But, finding right QB and right coach is such a difficult one to achieve as well. To do that in this off-season would be an underrated accomplishment. Would Colts be able to do that? 

 

For that, GM needs to be right too, along with the owner making right Decision in the case of Colts and allowing the front office to trust their scouts, insiders, instincts, intelligence gathered on various candidates and college prospects. 

 

So, fans doubting or being apprehensive on the franchise being in right path to do all the "right" decisions this off-season is warranted. 

 

Rather than getting all of us twisted and being antogonistic against other individuals who aren't positive, let it play out and wait and see the results. If the front office gets it right, at least some of the decisions right, we can see if they recognize what else needs to be done after next off-season. 

 

Similarly, it's not automatically true that with right QB and right coach, Colts can be contenders. GM needs to do better after getting right QB and coach too, by constructing the roster around for the scheme and skill set of the drafted franchise QB. There are few teams with right QB and right coach, but just borderline playoff teams at best. 

 

Needless to say, GM has lot in his plate, and has to get lot together "right". 

 

If someone doubts that could happen or if the current GM cannot do that, give them credit because it's also true that their doubts need to be cleared by GM and owner yet. There's nothing gained by going against each other in accusatory manner, especially when the OP @Indeee is trying to converse in proper way. 

[coltsva]

8 hours ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Winning a Super Bowl isn’t even on my radar right now. Give me a good rookie QB who shows signs of being a star and a coaching staff that gets us heading in the right direction and I’ll be happy for a while. I just want HOPE of better days ahead so I can enjoy the games again. My negativity comes from the doubt that Ballard can make enough correct decisions to put us on the path to contending because there’s little evidence he can. But whatever, I’ll still be wearing Colts gear regardless. 

This best sums up my feelings as well. 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

I can’t say I firmly see Ballard being the long term GM here. He has a lot of positives, but I’m not sure his philosophy on team building will ever lead to the Colts having a REAL Super Bowl caliber roster.

I think if he hits on a quarterback this draft he could be here a decade.

[Defjamz26]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think if he hits on a quarterback this draft he could be here a decade.

Hitting on a QB is part 1. If he is to remain here long term it will take more than that. He also needs to hit on an elite WR and a 10+ sack a year edge rusher in the draft.

[t-rex]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:38 AM, Indeee said:

Let's have an honest, open-minded discussion here:

 

My take.

 

While most are excited with anticipation of our new HC/Staff and pondering over which QB would best fit our team, I can't help but have a much wider lens. 

 

When I think of the next decade in the AFC, I'm not seeing where the Colts can actually make a splash at all with this current roster, especially offensively. Yes, this team needs a QB, at least a stable one in the worst way but this offense from the skill positions is putrid. It's nowhere close to being elite. In fact, I would say that this year's draft should be entirely offense for the first 4-5 rounds and I'm not talking about drafting O-line or RB. 

 

Outside of JT, who on this offense scares defenses? I mean look at our competition.

 

Bengals: Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and Hurst.

 

Chiefs: Mahomes, Kelce, Mckinnon, Pacheo, Toney, Schuster, and Scantling/Hardman.

 

Bills: Allen, Diggs, Davis, McKensie, Knox, and Singletary.

 

Jags: Lawrence, Ridley, Kirk, Ettiene, Jones, and Engram.

 

Chargers: Herbert, Allen, Williams, Eckler, Palmer, and Everette. 

 

Dolphins: Tua, Waddle, Hill, Mostert, and Geseki. 

 

That is a gauntlet, and the Dolphins, Bills, and Chiefs are the least stacked IMHO, albeit still highly dangerous. 

 

Is Pittman, Campbell, and Pierce anywhere near what our competition already has in place at WR? I mean these guys struggle to gain separation most days. There are some on here actually suggesting that Pittman be traded. Who knows? It might just happen. Ballard himself basically recently eluded that Pittman is not a number one, something all of us should have known when he was drafted, heck i for one said it, and Pierce is terrible. Pierce is a WR3, if. 

 

Does anyone on here think Jelani Woods is a "Move" tight end? Meaning, is Jelani in the mold from a route running/quickness standpoint as Engram or Kelce or Everette? If he is, he isn't/hasn't been used that way and wouldn't most agree that if a player shows that type of skill in a practice standpoint that the team would try to utilize that in game? 

 

I think sometimes we as fans get caught up in what I call "fool's gold football".  We are so hopeful and forgiving that we stop using our eyes and instead, see with our minds. We start playing the what if game that's always predicated on what our minds are seeing in terms of hoping what our team can be. We lose sight of what it actually is.  Unfortunately, this has happened to a lot of us on this forum for the past few years and here we are. Most times I get crucified on here but I'm a realist. 

 

When Peyton was here, other than the Chargers always having our number, it was just the Patriots we had to worry about normally. Not now. Now there is at least 6 teams, and the Steelers are close to entering that mix with Pickett, Harris, Pickens, Johnson, and Friermuth.

 

I'm sorry, but this Colts team is years away from entering that gauntlet with this current offensive roster. Can the Colts win a game here and there, sure, but this team is nowhere near competing for a SB anytime soon. Again, this about winning Super Bowls, and we can't even win the division. 

 

Yes, we need a stable QB, however without a formidable skill tree around that QB, we are just spinning wheels. Where is that Skill tree going to come from? 

 

This team is in trouble, and it will take at least 3-4 more years to get somewhat close without an awful lot of luck. Ballard built this team for the 80's style of play and unfortunately it might have set us back that long. 

 

Convince me I'm wrong. Seriously. I'm trying to make waves here; the waters are already extremely choppy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think weapons are 33/33/33 proposition. 33% is talent at the position. The other 66% is OC and QB. Until we have an OC and QB, you can't judge our weapons. I don't think we know what we have at the skilled positions outside of JT. Ironically, RB is the position least likely to be influenced by OC/QB work.

[Smoke317]

On 1/24/2023 at 10:38 AM, Indeee said:

Let's have an honest, open-minded discussion here:

 

My take.

 

While most are excited with anticipation of our new HC/Staff and pondering over which QB would best fit our team, I can't help but have a much wider lens. 

 

When I think of the next decade in the AFC, I'm not seeing where the Colts can actually make a splash at all with this current roster, especially offensively. Yes, this team needs a QB, at least a stable one in the worst way but this offense from the skill positions is putrid. It's nowhere close to being elite. In fact, I would say that this year's draft should be entirely offense for the first 4-5 rounds and I'm not talking about drafting O-line or RB. 

 

Outside of JT, who on this offense scares defenses? I mean look at our competition.

 

Bengals: Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, and Hurst.

 

Chiefs: Mahomes, Kelce, Mckinnon, Pacheo, Toney, Schuster, and Scantling/Hardman.

 

Bills: Allen, Diggs, Davis, McKensie, Knox, and Singletary.

 

Jags: Lawrence, Ridley, Kirk, Ettiene, Jones, and Engram.

 

Chargers: Herbert, Allen, Williams, Eckler, Palmer, and Everette. 

 

Dolphins: Tua, Waddle, Hill, Mostert, and Geseki. 

 

That is a gauntlet, and the Dolphins, Bills, and Chiefs are the least stacked IMHO, albeit still highly dangerous. 

 

Is Pittman, Campbell, and Pierce anywhere near what our competition already has in place at WR? I mean these guys struggle to gain separation most days. There are some on here actually suggesting that Pittman be traded. Who knows? It might just happen. Ballard himself basically recently eluded that Pittman is not a number one, something all of us should have known when he was drafted, heck i for one said it, and Pierce is terrible. Pierce is a WR3, if. 

 

Does anyone on here think Jelani Woods is a "Move" tight end? Meaning, is Jelani in the mold from a route running/quickness standpoint as Engram or Kelce or Everette? If he is, he isn't/hasn't been used that way and wouldn't most agree that if a player shows that type of skill in a practice standpoint that the team would try to utilize that in game? 

 

I think sometimes we as fans get caught up in what I call "fool's gold football".  We are so hopeful and forgiving that we stop using our eyes and instead, see with our minds. We start playing the what if game that's always predicated on what our minds are seeing in terms of hoping what our team can be. We lose sight of what it actually is.  Unfortunately, this has happened to a lot of us on this forum for the past few years and here we are. Most times I get crucified on here but I'm a realist. 

 

When Peyton was here, other than the Chargers always having our number, it was just the Patriots we had to worry about normally. Not now. Now there is at least 6 teams, and the Steelers are close to entering that mix with Pickett, Harris, Pickens, Johnson, and Friermuth.

 

I'm sorry, but this Colts team is years away from entering that gauntlet with this current offensive roster. Can the Colts win a game here and there, sure, but this team is nowhere near competing for a SB anytime soon. Again, this about winning Super Bowls, and we can't even win the division. 

 

Yes, we need a stable QB, however without a formidable skill tree around that QB, we are just spinning wheels. Where is that Skill tree going to come from? 

 

This team is in trouble, and it will take at least 3-4 more years to get somewhat close without an awful lot of luck. Ballard built this team for the 80's style of play and unfortunately it might have set us back that long. 

 

Convince me I'm wrong. Seriously. I'm trying to make waves here; the waters are already extremely choppy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You spouted off a lot of names from those teams but only about 2 names from each team are fear inducing.  A majority of those names are just good players.  No better than Pittman, Woods, Campbell, Pierce, etc.  They’re just being used more effectively and actually have good to great QB play.

 

We can all agree we sucked this past year.  But before Jeff came aboard we were in every game except the Jags game.  So we sucked but were still competitive with most opponents without good to great QB play and Frank basically crumbling.  Get a Coach & a QB, fix this O Line, and keep the defense strong and we’re right back in the mix.  
 

Getting the right QB & Coach are critical though.  These other young QB’s are gaining valuable experience. We need to get a guy in the race before one of the others becomes Brady & settles into consistently winning big.  Thank goodness Lawrence lost and Allen can’t get over the hump.  Now we need Burrow to lose because back to back Super Bowl trips at a young age could put him on that fast track to ultimate success. We already have Mahomes up there.  Don’t need Burrow attaining that rare air too.

[Goatface Killah]

1 hour ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

Most of the time, the truth is in the common ground. 

 

It could be true that with right QB and right coach, Colts could be very much a contender. But, finding right QB and right coach is such a difficult one to achieve as well. To do that in this off-season would be an underrated accomplishment. Would Colts be able to do that? 

 

For that, GM needs to be right too, along with the owner making right Decision in the case of Colts and allowing the front office to trust their scouts, insiders, instincts, intelligence gathered on various candidates and college prospects. 

 

So, fans doubting or being apprehensive on the franchise being in right path to do all the "right" decisions this off-season is warranted. 

 

Rather than getting all of us twisted and being antogonistic against other individuals who aren't positive, let it play out and wait and see the results. If the front office gets it right, at least some of the decisions right, we can see if they recognize what else needs to be done after next off-season. 

 

Similarly, it's not automatically true that with right QB and right coach, Colts can be contenders. GM needs to do better after getting right QB and coach too, by constructing the roster around for the scheme and skill set of the drafted franchise QB. There are few teams with right QB and right coach, but just borderline playoff teams at best. 

 

Needless to say, GM has lot in his plate, and has to get lot together "right". 

 

If someone doubts that could happen or if the current GM cannot do that, give them credit because it's also true that their doubts need to be cleared by GM and owner yet. There's nothing gained by going against each other in accusatory manner, especially when the OP @Indeee is trying to converse in proper way. 

Why discuss anything?

 

He started a thread. I discussed the topic in the thread. I didnt call him names or break any forum rules. What is the problem here? I think its more than fair to point out that he admitted to not watching the 49ers very much, especially after he claimed to watch the entire NFL and suggest I didnt in an earlier exchange. 

 

As far as the meat of your post, sure they need to be right and its very tough to accomplish. Thats been the point Ballards supporters have been trying to make this entire time. Its the reason they went with Rivers, Wentz and Ryan at QB instead of drafting one. Drafting one is extremely hard and seldom works out. It probably wont work out this year. But that doesnt stop people from suggesting thats the reason why we struggled this year when its really not. 

 

They went with guys they had seen in the NFL, who like it or not, were much better players than the rookies who had never been thru a single NFL practice at the time of the eval. They all had extensive NFL tape and the rookies had absolutely none. Going with Rivers worked. Going with Ryan didnt. But it was essentially the same exact decision with the same philosophy behind it. And it was absolutely reasonable both times. Vets are better than rookies 90 times out of 100. To feel otherwise is completely ignoring probability.

 

But none of that stops the critics from the using retrospect to make those people look bad for those very reasonable deicisions. 

 

Its not me who doesnt understand that this is very hard to do. I will be a season ticket holder again next year because I offer the Colts a certain level of understanding when it comes to how hard it is to build a team. I dont just sit at home and complain because I didnt get my dopamine release. I try to be a supporter of the team in my actions and enjoy the atmosphere in the stadium, the tailgating, spending quality time with friends, and the football that comes with all that. Thats what I am paying for, not the wins and losses, and I understand that. 

 

I did not start this thread and am not responsible for the tone of it. I am also allowed to offer my thoughts on it.

 

[Goatface Killah]

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

Yes. The reasons were because he was a 21 year-old rookie, who was a year removed from playing…and then he got hurt early in Week 2 the following season. 
 

 

And he couldnt beat out Jimmy G because he wasnt ready to play because he isnt an NFL QB yet.

 

Andrew wouldve beat out Jimmy, EASILY.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

And he couldnt beat out Jimmy G because he wasnt ready to play because he isnt an NFL QB yet.

 

Andrew wouldve beat out Jimmy.

Andrew led us to an 11-5 record and the playoffs as a rookie, threw for 4300 yards and had 7 comeback wins without no running game. He was special, some in here don't realize how great he was. He only played 7 seasons and is still a top 50 QB of all-time on most lists. He won't be a Hall of Famer because of his longevity. I wish Andrew would have had a coach like Andy Reid, which Mahomes has, things could have been different. 

[philba101]

23 hours ago, Goatface Killah said:

And compare us to the best teams in football so you can make us look bad.

 

Like how many teams have skill players as good as the 49ers? The Bengals? Who else?

 

This honestly makes no logical sense. 

I think he makes great points and logical sense despite the long paragraphs. I didn't take the comparison to other teams as a bashing of the Colts, but as a realistic look at the type of elite weapons this team will need if it expects to compete in this modern NFL. Ballard and maybe Irsay have played it safe when it comes to this approach. If you are going to build an offense just through the draft as Ballard has attempted, then you either need to be perfect in the draft which is just not realistic, or have a lot more picks. Taylor is our only elite weapon and you can see just how easily an elite RB can be diminished by injuries and a failing team around him. That being said, with the right coach, QB, and a new aggressive philosophy in FA, teams can be turned around rather quickly in this modern NFL. However, I have seen no recent proof that Ballard and Irsay are up to the task.

[Goatface Killah]

10 minutes ago, philba101 said:

I think he makes great points and logical sense despite the long paragraphs. I didn't take the comparison to other teams as a bashing of the Colts, but as a realistic look at the type of elite weapons this team will need if it expects to compete in this modern NFL. Ballard and maybe Irsay have played it safe when it comes to this approach. If you are going to build an offense just through the draft as Ballard has attempted, then you either need to be perfect in the draft which is just not realistic, or have a lot more picks. Taylor is our only elite weapon and you can see just how easily an elite RB can be diminished by injuries and a failing team around him. That being said, with the right coach, QB, and a new aggressive philosophy in FA, teams can be turned around rather quickly in this modern NFL. However, I have seen no recent proof that Ballard and Irsay are up to the task.

Did you see any proof last year the Jags or the Giants would be playoff teams this year? 

 

I dont need to see any proof. I just have faith.

[throwing BBZ]

19 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

Why discuss anything?

 

He started a thread. I discussed the topic in the thread. I didnt call him names or break any forum rules. What is the problem here? I think its more than fair to point out that he admitted to not watching the 49ers very much, especially after he claimed to watch the entire NFL and suggest I didnt in an earlier exchange. 

 

As far as the meat of your post, sure they need to be right and its very tough to accomplish. Thats been the point Ballards supporters have been trying to make this entire time. Its the reason they went with Rivers, Wentz and Ryan at QB instead of drafting one. Drafting one is extremely hard and seldom works out. It probably wont work out this year. But that doesnt stop people from suggesting thats the reason why we struggled this year when its really not. 

 

They went with guys they had seen in the NFL, who like it or not, were much better players than the rookies who had never been thru a single NFL practice at the time of the eval. They all had extensive NFL tape and the rookies had absolutely none. Going with Rivers worked. Going with Ryan didnt. But it was essentially the same exact decision with the same philosophy behind it. And it was absolutely reasonable both times. Vets are better than rookies 90 times out of 100. To feel otherwise is completely ignoring probability.

 

But none of that stops the critics from the using retrospect to make those people look bad for those very reasonable deicisions. 

 

Its not me who doesnt understand that this is very hard to do. I will be a season ticket holder again next year because I offer the Colts a certain level of understanding when it comes to how hard it is to build a team. I dont just sit at home and complain because I didnt get my dopamine release. I try to be a supporter of the team in my actions and enjoy the atmosphere in the stadium, the tailgating, spending quality time with friends, and the football that comes with all that. Thats what I am paying for, not the wins and losses, and I understand that. 

 

I did not start this thread and am not responsible for the tone of it. I am also allowed to offer my thoughts on it.

 

 

  ABSOLUTELY Brilliant!   

    And INDEE is making his HUGE POINT but is only stating the Obvious.

  We do not have enough players that are typically in years 4-7, that play at a very high level to be anywhere near contenders.

 Hopefully our Rookie QB has enough skill by his mid 3rd year to be highly competitive. THAT IS historically the standard. Wash, rinse, repeat.

  Sadly he can't see the forest for the trees as to the potential of the young players he mentions. We need more good players and the younger ones must become really good for us to EVER compete for a SB.

 There are 25 or so teams that came into the season with little hope of playing in a conference championship. All were pretenders. 

  Check back in 2025 at the opening day roster and less than 20 on our current roster will still be here. YES, having a SB contending roster and coaching staff starts each season with about 6 teams.

Brilliant INDEE sees we are not one! 

[philba101]

1 minute ago, Goatface Killah said:

Did you see any proof last year the Jags or the Giants would be division champs this year? 

 

I dont need to see any proof. I just have faith.

I am not sure I understand. The Jags got serious about their coaching position and hired a seasoned veteran with a Super Bowl on his resume. The Jags drafted their franchise QB a few year's ago while we played Band-Aid Veteran QB Roulette. The Jags drafted a good RB that can run and catch the ball which is fitting to modern NFL offenses. The Jags spent big on a WR in FA and got results. They also added a good pass catching TE in FA. I would rather be in the position of the Jags right now than the directionless 4-12-1 Colts. Meanwhile the Colts have failed to do most of these things and wonder why they can't win in what has been a pretty weak division over the past few years.

[Goatface Killah]

7 minutes ago, philba101 said:

I am not sure I understand. The Jags got serious about their coaching position and hired a seasoned veteran with a Super Bowl on his resume. The Jags drafted their franchise QB a few year's ago while we played Band-Aid Veteran QB Roulette. The Jags drafted a good RB that can run and catch the ball which is fitting to modern NFL offenses. The Jags spent big on a WR in FA and got results. They also added a good pass catching TE in FA. I would rather be in the position of the Jags right now than the directionless 4-12-1 Colts. Meanwhile the Colts have failed to do most of these things and wonder why they can't win in what has been a pretty weak division over the past few years.

You expected it because if Doug Pederson Christian Kirk and Evan Engram?

 

I call nonsense on that.

 

We havent had our offseason yet so its not even fair to compare them at this point 

[philba101]

13 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

You expected it because if Doug Pederson Christian Kirk and Evan Engram?

 

I call nonsense on that.

 

We havent had our offseason yet so its not even fair to compare them at this point 

I never said I expected the Jaguars to win the division this year. I did and do expect them to continue to get better because they have been aggressively investing in ways to improve their offense. You can call it whatever you want. They showed up to play and got better as the year went along. The Colts did not. Thus, the Jaguars won a weak division, won a playoff game, and competed with the Chiefs in the second game. I would much rather be in that position than where the Colts currently sit. And yes, Ballard and Irsay have shown no signs to me (besides talk) that they are ready to fix their failures as they promised.

[Goatface Killah]

Just now, philba101 said:

I never said I expected the Jaguars to win the division this year. I did and do expect them to continue to get better because they have been aggressively investing in ways to improve their offense. You can call it whatever you want. They showed up to play and got better as the year went along. The Colts did not. Thus, the Jaguars won a weak division, won a playoff game, and competed with the Chiefs in the second game. I would much rather be in that position than where the Colts currently sit. And yes, Ballard and Irsay have shown no signs to me (besides talk) that they are ready to fix their failures as they promised.

Sure.

 

We both agree on the Jags. Im just not really sure what the point is in critiquing our ability to fix our issues before we even have a chance to do so.

 

We have a chance to find a good coach and repair our OL. If we do those 2 things I think we can be around a .500 team next year give or take. That is realistic to me. We were in most of our games this year even with all the problems we had. This narrative that the Colts are a bare cupboard is just silly.

 

If we find a competent signal caller we could absolutely be a playoff team and challenge for a division title. Michael Pittman and Jelani Woods can ascend to a higher level. I truly believe that. I dont think thats crazy or viewing the team thru "rose colored glasses".

[colts89]

We have good talent on this roster. No team besides a team with an all-time Defense will ever look good without at least a good QB. We didn't have that this year and our defense didn't create as many turnovers this year either (we missed Leonard a lot)

 

 

That makes this year's pick that much more important. If we hit on that, and we get a coach who can be a strong leader and Ballard makes a few good moves in the offseason/draft then yes of course we can be back in contention. There's always a few awful teams that turn the switch every year in the NFL, and great teams that falter. Nothing new.

[indyagent17]

Get a smart and quick thinking HC that knows how to adjust mid game that knows how to create a fierce atmosphere. Add a coaching staff that knows what they are doing and there is your start towards success 

[Indeee]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  ABSOLUTELY Brilliant!   

    And INDEE is making his HUGE POINT but is only stating the Obvious.

  We do not have enough players that are typically in years 4-7, that play at a very high level to be anywhere near contenders.

 Hopefully our Rookie QB has enough skill by his mid 3rd year to be highly competitive. THAT IS historically the standard. Wash, rinse, repeat.

  Sadly he can't see the forest for the trees as to the potential of the young players he mentions. We need more good players and the younger ones must become really good for us to EVER compete for a SB.

 There are 25 or so teams that came into the season with little hope of playing in a conference championship. All were pretenders. 

  Check back in 2025 at the opening day roster and less than 20 on our current roster will still be here. YES, having a SB contending roster and coaching staff starts each season with about 6 teams.

Brilliant INDEE sees we are not one! 

I don't mind the retort, rebuttal, or even the ball busting. 

 

The "obvious" point as you call it that I'm making is the cumulation of "obvious" points I and some of the others have been making for going on 4-5 years now.  If the management, i.e., brain trust would have focused more on let's say talented skill positions more than project players, we might only be a QB away from competing with all the teams I mentioned, but they haven't/didn't and that equals that we are nowhere close. 

 

There has been a ton of talented skill players in the draft and in FA over these past few years that the Colts easily could have acquired or even went hard on, that currently are on other clubs. Would it have mattered, if say we traded for Michael Gallup before the Cowboys were ready to move off of Cooper or jumped the steelers to grab Pickens, and they were here through our QB nightmare? Yes. Because they would be here now and ready once we grabbed our QB. I use Gallup and Pickens as this is a foresight move, I think the Colts should have gone hard on, but they didn't, heck they didn't even try and that's what burns me as a fan. I use these examples without throwing out unrealistic acquiring Tyreek, although I would've easily made a move on Christian Kirk over anyone we currently have, and the Colts did not. Now he's about to be paired with Ridley that might give our defense headaches for years to come.  Why didn't the Colts go after Ridley? 

 

Anyways, this has always been my basic point to most of my posts regarding this subject.  We should already be in position with those other teams after our 6 years if this team was built like it should have been all along in the mold of the rest of the league, OBVIOUSLY. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[philba101]

1 hour ago, Goatface Killah said:

Sure.

 

We both agree on the Jags. Im just not really sure what the point is in critiquing our ability to fix our issues before we even have a chance to do so.

 

We have a chance to find a good coach and repair our OL. If we do those 2 things I think we can be around a .500 team next year give or take. That is realistic to me. We were in most of our games this year even with all the problems we had. This narrative that the Colts are a bare cupboard is just silly.

 

If we find a competent signal caller we could absolutely be a playoff team and challenge for a division title. Michael Pittman and Jelani Woods can ascend to a higher level. I truly believe that. I dont think thats crazy or viewing the team thru "rose colored glasses".

I don't know that I disagree with anything that you said.  I don't think that this team is completely devoid of talent as some suggest, but besides Taylor we have no elite talent who are offensive playmakers. Maybe Woods, Ogletree, and Pierce will develop. I sure hope so. We waited for years for draftees like Patmon, Pascal, Dulin, Cain, Campbell, Strachan, etc. to produce with very little results. My beef with Ballard and Irsay is not for the re-build they are about to undertake (although that is important), but for the failures that have lead us to this point in the first place. I am just not convinced that they are willing to take the necessary steps to quickly turn around this team. This to me means doing things differently than they have the past six years. I agree with you that things can be turned around very quickly in the NFL today. I am a huge Colts fan so I hope they can prove me wrong and fix this team, I am just not confident that it will happen.

[Goatface Killah]

10 minutes ago, philba101 said:

I don't know that I disagree with anything that you said.  I don't think that this team is completely devoid of talent as some suggest but besides Taylor we have no elite talent who are offensive playmakers. Maybe Woods, Ogletree, and Pierce will develop. I sure hope so. We waited for years for draftees like Patmon, Pascal, Dulin, Cain, Campbell, Strachan, etc. to produce with very little results. My beef with Ballard and Irsay is not for the re-build they are about to undertake (although that is important), but for the failures that have lead us to this point in the first place. I am just not convinced that they are willing to take the necessary steps to quickly turn around this team. This to me means doing things differently than they have the past six years. I agree with you that things can be turned around very quickly in NFL today. I am a huge Colts fan so I hope they can prove me wrong and fix this team, I am just not confident that it will happen.

That is the NFL. You draft guys and you develop them over a few years. Some work out, some dont. When you dont win youre an *. When you win youre a genius. Fans always think they could do better and have all the answers. 

 

The Colts have hit on more draft picks than most teams. I like our roster outside of QB. A QB changes everything for us. 

 

 

[philba101]

1 minute ago, Goatface Killah said:

That is the NFL. You draft guys and you develop them over a few years. Some work out, some dont. When you dont win youre an *. When you win youre a genius. Fans always think they could do better and have all the answers. 

 

The Colts have hit on more draft picks than most teams. I like our roster outside of QB. A QB changes everything for us. 

 

 

I agree, getting a QB and the right coach will go a long way towards changing the trajectory of this team. 

[Goatface Killah]

38 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I don't mind the retort, rebuttal, or even the ball busting. 

 

The "obvious" point as you call it that I'm making is the cumulation of "obvious" points I and some of the others have been making for going on 4-5 years now.  If the management, i.e., brain trust would have focused more on let's say talented skill positions more than project players, we might only be a QB away from competing with all the teams I mentioned, but they haven't/didn't and that equals that we are nowhere close. 

 

There has been a ton of talented skill players in the draft and in FA over these past few years that the Colts easily could have acquired or even went hard on, that currently are on other clubs. Would it have mattered, if say we traded for Michael Gallup before the Cowboys were ready to move off of Cooper or jumped the steelers to grab Pickens, and they were here through our QB nightmare? Yes. Because they would be here now and ready once we grabbed our QB. I use Gallup and Pickens as this is a foresight move, I think the Colts should have gone hard on, but they didn't, heck they didn't even try and that's what burns me as a fan. I use these examples without throwing out unrealistic acquiring Tyreek, although I would've easily made a move on Christian Kirk over anyone we currently have, and the Colts did not. Now he's about to be paired with Ridley that might give our defense headaches for years to come.  Why didn't the Colts go after Ridley? 

 

Anyways, this has always been my basic point to most of my posts regarding this subject.  We should already be in position with those other teams after our 6 years if this team was built like it should have been all along in the mold of the rest of the league, OBVIOUSLY. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are acting like you are predicting the future, but youre really just reacting to the past, in hindsight. 

 

If they ever win youll just say they did what you suggested and finally listened to you.

[Superman]

22 hours ago, Indeee said:

thanks for saying this. It should seem obvious however to some over these past few years it isn't and that is what gets my goat personally. I do however fully agree that player development has been atrocious. I remember seeing where someone on twitter stated that Ballard made a mistake thinking that he could out draft and out develop all the other 31 teams and it hasn't turned out that way. That was a spot-on assessment Imo especially at positions that score points. 

 

Is there anyone arguing that the Colts skill players are on the same page as the best teams in the AFC?

 

I also don't think the bolded is true. It's a sensationalized soundbite that tries to oversimplify a nuanced topic.

[Nickster]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Is there anyone arguing that the Colts skill players are on the same page as the best teams in the AFC?

 

I also don't think the bolded is true. It's a sensationalized soundbite that tries to oversimplify a nuanced topic.

 

What reaction do you have to this statement though SUPE? 

 

Ballard has hit in the draft mostly in positions that the league doesn't value as much as the positions he has not swung at and/or hit on.