Training Camp Day 6-August 4th

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

Anyone else concerned bout our OL just not looking that hot right now?

 

Like Frank and others have said, the D normally wins the first week. 

 

I've posted the 1on1s (DL vs OL) in the summary threads, and it's about what you'd expect.

 

I will say this, Pryor has had the most wins, and is holding his own vs Ngakoue. That's huge.

 

But all the guys should have wins and losses when you're talking 1st team vs 1st team. If not, you'd have to worry about our D lol. 

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, RollerColt said:

  5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Taller players tend to look that way, especially if they are high waisted with long legs.  And they probably do lumber to a degree because there needs to be a lot of leg movement to get anywhere.  MAC can have the same issues.  Centers, in basketball tend to lumber too.

 

You know, I guy with 2 foot long legs and a 4 foot long torso is going to look like he's really motoring.  LOL.

 

4 hours ago, RollerColt said:

 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

No practice until Sunday.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Like Frank and others have said, the D normally wins the first week. 

 

I've posted the 1on1s (DL vs OL) in the summary threads, and it's about what you'd expect.

 

I will say this, Pryor has had the most wins, and is holding his own vs Ngakoue. That's huge.

 

But all the guys should have wins and losses when you're talking 1st team vs 1st team. If not, you'd have to worry about our D lol. 

Yannick is all outside speed rusher with limited moves.  It is nice Pryor is some what holding his own, but he will face some fierce pass rushers this year. I think we will still be looking for a LT at the end of the season.

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Like Frank and others have said, the D normally wins the first week. 

 

I've posted the 1on1s (DL vs OL) in the summary threads, and it's about what you'd expect.

 

I will say this, Pryor has had the most wins, and is holding his own vs Ngakoue. That's huge.

 

But all the guys should have wins and losses when you're talking 1st team vs 1st team. If not, you'd have to worry about our D lol. 

As good as Ngakoue was last year for the Raiders, Jones is a massive upgrade for Las Vegas. Ngakoue is a skilled pass rusher, but he is clearly one of the worst run-defending defensive ends in the league. I don't expect this to change but I still like the move.

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Yannick is all outside speed rusher with limited moves.  It is nice Pryor is some what holding his own, but he will face some fierce pass rushers this year. I think we will still be looking for a LT at the end of the season.

 

uh.... that's kind of what a LEO is designed to do... 

 

Not surprised by your take though. 

 

He's prototypical for an ER/LEO in our new scheme. He's got one of the best chops in the NFL for 4-3 ERs. And he won't be asked to play every down. He won't be asked to stunt inside much. His job will be to take the LT out wide, creating spread in the interior for others. And of course, his job is beating the LT lol, which he's done pretty well at since he's been in the league. 

 

It won't matter how well Pryor does. He could grade well and kill it. Then you'd complain that he doesn't deserver a raise lol. He did well last season. His best grades were at LT. He's holding his own vs one of the best speed ERs in the league. But please, continue to find cracks to complain about. 

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

As good as Ngakoue was last year for the Raiders, Jones is a massive upgrade for Las Vegas. Ngakoue is a skilled pass rusher, but he is clearly one of the worst run-defending defensive ends in the league. I don't expect this to change but I still like the move.

 

Jones is aging.

Last season, both Ngakoue and Jones had the same amount of sacks, and same amount of pressures.

And they both had about the same snaps.

Jones had 3 more missed tackles than Yannick, and run D is considered Yannick's weak area... 

[GoColts8818]

6 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

What are they get waiting for?

I don’t think the Colts are so much waiting as it is they have a dollar figure they aren’t going to go above and TY has a number he isn’t willing to play less than for so both sides are waiting for the other to budge.  
 

Ballard’s original quote was pretty much GM speak.  It gives him an out to do either.  He said they are always looking to improve but also said they like their guys so whatever he does that quote covers him.

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

Anyone else concerned bout our OL just not looking that hot right now?

Concerned?  I guess.  I am not like in a panic as I know it can take time for them to jell but I’d say it’s something I’ll be watching.  

[compuls1v3]

Any news on Dayo’s TC this far?

[GoColts8818]

9 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

Any news on Dayo’s TC this far?

Colts update on the radio mentioned him with the rest of the dline that’s having a good camp.  That’s as much as I’ve heard.

[Moosejawcolt]

53 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Jones is aging.

Last season, both Ngakoue and Jones had the same amount of sacks, and same amount of pressures.

And they both had about the same snaps.

Jones had 3 more missed tackles than Yannick, and run D is considered Yannick's weak area... 

PFF had Jones ranked very high overall in run and pass. Yannick is very poor in run D

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

uh.... that's kind of what a LEO is designed to do... 

 

Not surprised by your take though. 

 

He's prototypical for an ER/LEO in our new scheme. He's got one of the best chops in the NFL for 4-3 ERs. And he won't be asked to play every down. He won't be asked to stunt inside much. His job will be to take the LT out wide, creating spread in the interior for others. And of course, his job is beating the LT lol, which he's done pretty well at since he's been in the league. 

 

It won't matter how well Pryor does. He could grade well and kill it. Then you'd complain that he doesn't deserver a raise lol. He did well last season. His best grades were at LT. He's holding his own vs one of the best speed ERs in the league. But please, continue to find cracks to complain about. 

I am not disputing what Yannicks role is. I know he is there to basically rush the passer. He is a good fit in this D because of his limitations in run support.  Pryor is going to face D ends that bring more to thr table then Yannicks skill set. A one tick pony.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Jones is aging.

Last season, both Ngakoue and Jones had the same amount of sacks, and same amount of pressures.

And they both had about the same snaps.

Jones had 3 more missed tackles than Yannick, and run D is considered Yannick's weak 

https://raiderramble.com/2022/04/22/a-closer-look-at-the-chandler-jones-and-yannick-ngakoue-swap/

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

PFF had Jones ranked very high overall in run and pass. Yannick is very poor in run D

Yannick likely will not be asked to play early run downs. We didn't bring him here for run D.

Dayo, or perhaps Lewis will get those downs. 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yannick likely will not be asked to play early run downs. We didn't bring him here for run D.

Dayo, or perhaps Lewis will get those downs. 

 

 

Agreed. I love the trade for Yannick.  Don't get me wrong. I just don't want fans screaming at the tube when he is gashed for some big runs. U know what u r getting so live with it. I wasn't trying to critisize Pryor. I just think Yannick is probably predictable jn his pass rush moves. Pryor is going to going up against some complete studs who will bring a lot to the table.

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am not disputing what Yannicks role is. I know he is there to basically rush the passer. He is a good fit in this D because of his limitations in run support.  Pryor is going to face D ends that bring more to thr table then Yannicks skill set. A one tick pony.

If you concede he's an elite ER, then stop himhawing about Pryor, who is holding his own against him lol... Y

our constant negativity despite common sense evidence is twilight zone-ish.

 

We're going to face teams with elite ERs that any LT would have a problem with. 

 

We also play LVR. We'll likely see how Jones does against Pryor lol. I'll guess Pryor holds his own.

[Shepman]

Dwight Freeney couldn't stuff a run to save his life here.

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

https://raiderramble.com/2022/04/22/a-closer-look-at-the-chandler-jones-and-yannick-ngakoue-swap/

 

So even an article with Raider spin admits both had the same amount of pressures and sacks, and that Jones is not great against the run. Thanks. 

 

 

[GoColts8818]

In a perfect world of course all your ends would be as good against the run as they are at rushing the passer but those players are few and far between in the NFL.  The Colts have a good d-line vs the run and good linebackers vs the run behind it.  What the Colts desperately needed is someone who can get to the QB.  So they got Yannick, a guy I heard tonight that only Aaron Donald has had more sacks than over the past six seasons I believe, to do just that.  Arguing he cant stop the run seems to be missing the point of the move and criticizing just to criticize.  

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Agreed. I love the trade for Yannick.  Don't get me wrong. I just don't want fans screaming at the tube when he is gashed for some big runs. U know what u r getting so live with it. I wasn't trying to critisize Pryor. I just think Yannick is probably predictable jn his pass rush moves. Pryor is going to going up against some complete studs who will bring a lot to the table.

 

Pryor is good laterally defending the outside rush. He's got Q to his inside. Not worried.

 

Ngakoue will be fine. AQM, who was known as a better run defender than pass rusher, had more missed tackles and roughly the same missed tackle % as Ngakoue. LBs need to clean that up. Yannick will be used appropriately in our scheme. We know what he does well, and what he doesn't. 

[Behle]

In those 1 vs 1 lime drills yesterday I observed a couple things that stood out. Grover was hard to block. All power rush. Pinter couldn’t hold up. Dayo also had a couple of wins. Raiman got pushed backwards twice and held his own the last time. Pryor held up each time   It wasn’t dominating but he also didn’t lose. Q vs Buck were good matches. Q couldn’t hold him out longer than 3 or 4 seconds. Enough time to get the ball out though. 

[Nickster]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Jones is aging.

Last season, both Ngakoue and Jones had the same amount of sacks, and same amount of pressures.

And they both had about the same snaps.

Jones had 3 more missed tackles than Yannick, and run D is considered Yannick's weak area... 

that’s all true but LV also let him go fairly cheaply and his salary is far from prohibitive.  Maybe it’s because of a scheme change post Bradley.  I mean I liked Rock and rooted for him as a wrestling guy but that trade seems to show that the league doesn’t place a top value for YN.

 

And East you can’t miss a tackle when the pulling guard blocks you off the sideline lol.

[Nickster]

7 hours ago, Shepman said:

Dwight Freeney couldn't stuff a run to save his life here.

Well it hurt us.  We got gashed for years.  I’m not sure that DF couldn’t have been an effective run defender but the Tampa 2 scheme had him flying up the field in almost every play and teams simply ran underneath him and we didn’t have Warren Sapp to take care of that massive gap Dungys scheme allowed.

[Moosejawcolt]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

If you concede he's an elite ER, then stop himhawing about Pryor, who is holding his own against him lol... Y

our constant negativity despite common sense evidence is twilight zone-ish.

 

We're going to face teams with elite ERs that any LT would have a problem with. 

 

We also play LVR. We'll likely see how Jones does against Pryor lol. I'll guess Pryor holds his own.

Elite ER's don't change teams like  I change my under wear. They just don't. I love the trade, however he has been discarded by 3 teams now. Elite ER's don't go thru that. 

[skerfalcon8710]

8 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I am not disputing what Yannicks role is. I know he is there to basically rush the passer. He is a good fit in this D because of his limitations in run support.  Pryor is going to face D ends that bring more to thr table then Yannicks skill set. A one tick pony.

I’m sorry but this is such a petty take, you are complaining about having one of the better speed rushers in the league next to Buckner who is a force. Take it from a guy who has watched his favorite team be in the bottom 10 in sacks for a decade that I would have killed for a quality speed rusher. Pryor needs all the work he can get getting wide and washing the DE out of the play from what I’ve watched. You cannot have all stars at every position. 

[Mr.Debonair]

"It's the start of the 2029 NFL season and the Colts are again thinking about bringing TY Hilton back for one more year, despite his dwindling number, he's a great insurance to have " SMH

[throwing BBZ]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Pryor is good laterally defending the outside rush. He's got Q to his inside. Not worried.

 

Ngakoue will be fine. AQM, who was known as a better run defender than pass rusher, had more missed tackles and roughly the same missed tackle % as Ngakoue. LBs need to clean that up. Yannick will be used appropriately in our scheme. We know what he does well, and what he doesn't. 

 

 If i get this D right, we will play a lot with a safety up and it will play then more like havin 3 LB's. That will allow Yannick's back to be covered by Leonard who will be allowed to line up nearer the hole than he could in the 4-2 used by Flus. Yes it will look more like the Freeney days as far as the speed rush (The easiest 5yds in NFL History) except for the Leonard thingy.

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Agreed. I love the trade for Yannick.  Don't get me wrong. I just don't want fans screaming at the tube when he is gashed for some big runs. U know what u r getting so live with it. I wasn't trying to critisize Pryor. I just think Yannick is probably predictable jn his pass rush moves. Pryor is going to going up against some complete studs who will bring a lot to the table.

- Yannick can't stop the run. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Ben kind of throwing a shot at Eberflus.

 

 

[Nickster]

10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

In a perfect world of course all your ends would be as good against the run as they are at rushing the passer but those players are few and far between in the NFL.  The Colts have a good d-line vs the run and good linebackers vs the run behind it.  What the Colts desperately needed is someone who can get to the QB.  So they got Yannick, a guy I heard tonight that only Aaron Donald has had more sacks than over the past six seasons I believe, to do just that.  Arguing he cant stop the run seems to be missing the point of the move and criticizing just to criticize.  

 

I think it's fair to question.  Why is it not acceptable to discuss?  I can't for the life of me understand why internet people always think they have some sort of duty to be the internet cops, or more like voices of internet morality, hall monitors of the internet.  

 

Someone on here just said that the pressures were said to be the same in the article when they specifically weren't.  Sacks were.  Jones pass rush grade was SIGNIFICANTLY higher 20+ points than YN's.  His run defending grade was also 20 points lower and he's among the worse of any player in the league in that area.

His sack numbers are good.  Yet he can't stick with a team and has a relatively modest salary.  Why is that?  It certainly makes me wonder. There must be reasons for that.  The team he was on just took on quite a bit more salary for a guy who is similar in being a pass rush specialist and weaker against the run.  Some of the same people that tout PFF numbers seem to be ignoring the fact that PFF doesn't really rate YN particularly high, and then seem dumbfounded why people would wonder how fans could question how much this guy is going to help.  

 

 

Why wouldn't people be questioning that?

 

Another thing to question is how our LBs will be in the new scheme v. the Run.  Our old scheme had our linemen mammary bumping two gappers with the goal of keeping the LBs clean.  The new scheme won't do that as much.  Our LBs will at times be faced with more head on collisions with blockers and ball carriers.  How they will react to that is not clear, since the scheme is so different.

 

I am concerned with Leonard's health. He's been getting nicked a lot lately and will now likely be faced with more North/South tackles rather than East West Tackles.  Hope he holds up.  He seems awfully light to play that way, especially in light of his injury history.

 

I think it's possible that this D line is going to be really good to great .  They better be or this D is going to be in trouble IMO.  

But I think it's far from clear how this is going to work out. Bradley's Ds haven't been setting the world fire since the legion. 

 

 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 If i get this D right, we will play a lot with a safety up and it will play then more like havin 3 LB's. That will allow Yannick's back to be covered by Leonard who will be allowed to line up nearer the hole than he could in the 4-2 used by Flus. Yes it will look more like the Freeney days as far as the speed rush (The easiest 5yds in NFL History) except for the Leonard thingy.

 

Bradley also uses a SAM quite more often than most teams do these days, from what I've gleaned. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

53 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I think it's fair to question.  Why is it not acceptable to discuss?  I can't for the life of me understand why internet people always think they have some sort of duty to be the internet cops, or more like voices of internet morality, hall monitors of the internet.  

 

Someone on here just said that the pressures were said to be the same in the article when they specifically weren't.  Sacks were.  Jones pass rush grade was SIGNIFICANTLY higher 20+ points than YN's.  His run defending grade was also 20 points lower and he's among the worse of any player in the league in that area.

His sack numbers are good.  Yet he can't stick with a team and has a relatively modest salary.  Why is that?  It certainly makes me wonder. There must be reasons for that.  The team he was on just took on quite a bit more salary for a guy who is similar in being a pass rush specialist and weaker against the run.  Some of the same people that tout PFF numbers seem to be ignoring the fact that PFF doesn't really rate YN particularly high, and then seem dumbfounded why people would wonder how fans could question how much this guy is going to help.  

 

 

Why wouldn't people be questioning that?

 

Another thing to question is how our LBs will be in the new scheme v. the Run.  Our old scheme had our linemen mammary bumping two gappers with the goal of keeping the LBs clean.  The new scheme won't do that as much.  Our LBs will at times be faced with more head on collisions with blockers and ball carriers.  How they will react to that is not clear, since the scheme is so different.

 

I am concerned with Leonard's health. He's been getting nicked a lot lately and will now likely be faced with more North/South tackles rather than East West Tackles.  Hope he holds up.  He seems awfully light to play that way, especially in light of his injury history.

 

I think it's possible that this D line is going to be really good to great .  They better be or this D is going to be in trouble IMO.  

But I think it's far from clear how this is going to work out. Bradley's Ds haven't been setting the world fire since the legion. 

 

 

Because he has been on bad teams where coaches have been fired ect. He has followed Bradley around too. 

[Nickster]

14 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Because he has been on bad teams where coaches have been fired ect. He has followed Bradley around too. 

The Raiders weren't bad last year.  And they should be significantly improved this year with Hill.

 

That doesn't make any sense. Baltimore wasn't bad at all, they were very good.  Even MN was a 7-9 team.  

 

So that seems to be a bit of a wrong answer studly.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

I think it's fair to question.  Why is it not acceptable to discuss?  I can't for the life of me understand why internet people always think they have some sort of duty to be the internet cops, or more like voices of internet morality, hall monitors of the internet.  

 

Someone on here just said that the pressures were said to be the same in the article when they specifically weren't.  Sacks were.  Jones pass rush grade was SIGNIFICANTLY higher 20+ points than YN's.  His run defending grade was also 20 points lower and he's among the worse of any player in the league in that area.

His sack numbers are good.  Yet he can't stick with a team and has a relatively modest salary.  Why is that?  It certainly makes me wonder. There must be reasons for that.  The team he was on just took on quite a bit more salary for a guy who is similar in being a pass rush specialist and weaker against the run.  Some of the same people that tout PFF numbers seem to be ignoring the fact that PFF doesn't really rate YN particularly high, and then seem dumbfounded why people would wonder how fans could question how much this guy is going to help.  

 

 

Why wouldn't people be questioning that?

 

Another thing to question is how our LBs will be in the new scheme v. the Run.  Our old scheme had our linemen mammary bumping two gappers with the goal of keeping the LBs clean.  The new scheme won't do that as much.  Our LBs will at times be faced with more head on collisions with blockers and ball carriers.  How they will react to that is not clear, since the scheme is so different.

 

I am concerned with Leonard's health. He's been getting nicked a lot lately and will now likely be faced with more North/South tackles rather than East West Tackles.  Hope he holds up.  He seems awfully light to play that way, especially in light of his injury history.

 

I think it's possible that this D line is going to be really good to great .  They better be or this D is going to be in trouble IMO.  

But I think it's far from clear how this is going to work out. Bradley's Ds haven't been setting the world fire since the legion. 

 

 

[throwing BBZ]

15 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Concerned?  I guess.  I am not like in a panic as I know it can take time for them to jell but I’d say it’s something I’ll be watching.  

 

  It sounds like Buckner is tearing up Pinter. I'm hoping to enjoy Buckner unleashing it on everyone this season.

[Myles]

I am not worried about Yannick at all.  We needed pass rushing help and he is very good at it.  

[Four2itus]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

I am not worried about Yannick at all.  We needed pass rushing help and he is very good at it.  

Most pressures in the last 4 years at his position. If that aint getting pass rush help, then fans are a nitpicking group to say the least. 

[Dingus McGirt]

25 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  It sounds like Buckner is tearing up Pinter. I'm hoping to enjoy Buckner unleashing it on everyone this season.

“Iron sharpens iron” 

[Boondoggle]

19 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

 

Beautiful ball there by QB1.  Pro placement.