Losing the team - Revisited

[indyagent17]

After week 3 I brought this up about Reich may be losing the team and I got the most hatful responses. 
 

Here we are again, our head coach keeps second guessing his decisions every game. He is either too conservative then too aggressive, one misguided decision after another!

 

 I have played very high level hockey in my 20’s and 30’s and when a player sees his coach being so erratic it changes the tenor of the locker room and believe me our players are questioning Reich and are getting frustrated with their head coach being flat our incompetent at times. It will only get worse because Reich never learns from his mistakes and misgivings as a coach. 

[Goatface Killah]

I think this is a thing that is kind of written off at times but should be a major concern.

 

Little issues become major concerns, like calling 3 straight runs when the offense is playing lights out, is the kind of stuff players notice and dont like.

 

Even things like choosing to go for two when you dont have to......players like that to a point, usually when its working. But when it costs you games they start talking about that stuff and the coach might lose a little respect amongst the team as a result.

 

Bad gameplans. Players talk about this kind of stuff amongst themselves. If they feel Reich is getting outcoached....it WILL be discussed. 

 

Not putting players a in a position to excel. Some guys might feel like they arent being utilized correctly. They talk about this stuff. They have friends on the team. They have feelings about how they are treated.

 

This stuff can snowball and become a problem very quick. I think the Colts have a good group of guys but all humans are susceptible to this stuff. Stay tuned.

[ojsglove]

I totally agree with this.  I respect Frank, and like him as a person, he seems to be a great guy, but as a head coach in the NFL, he is not the guy.  I know people will cite injuries, tough schedule, and other excuses including "he can only play the players he is given" but I'm sure he had a pretty big say so when the players were drafted.

 

Too many terrible play calls that have cost us points and games.  My gut tells me we will never make it back to the big game as long as Frank is our coach.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

I totally agree with this.  I respect Frank, and like him as a person, he seems to be a great guy, but as a head coach in the NFL, he is not the guy.  I know people will cite injuries, tough schedule, and other excuses including "he can only play the players he is given" but I'm sure he had a pretty big say so when the players were drafted.

 

Too many terrible play calls that have cost us points and games.  My gut tells me we will never make it back to the big game as long as Frank is our coach.

I have already came to the conclusion no matter who we get as coach, if we don't win the SB almost nobody will be happy. Every coach we have ever had has been thrashed by the Colts fan base even Dungy. Most Colts fans jump off cliffs when we lose a game or 2 and if we don't win a SB within the 1st 3 years of a regime, they want the GM and coach to be fired. This a trend I have noticed with this fan base. 

[EastStreet]

You have to think the O, and especially Wentz, was like WTX when we handed off 3 straight times after dominating them like we did. Once we got into the RZ it was like, who cares if we have a hurt kicker.... we'll just try to pound the rock... 

 

Also, you have to think the D gets tired of playing way off the LOS so much and just letting QBs kill us underneath. I get we're trying to not give up the big play, but if you're playing that far off, you're going to give up 1Ds over and over again. And it will just wear down the D.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

You have to think the O, and especially Wentz, was like WTX when we handed off 3 straight times after dominating them like we did. Once we got into the RZ it was like, who cares if we have a hurt kicker.... we'll just try to pound the rock... 

 

Also, you have to think the D gets tired of playing way off the LOS so much and just letting QBs kill us underneath. I get we're trying to not give up the big play, but if you're playing that far off, you're going to give up 1Ds over and over again. And it will just wear down the D.

Yep. The problem with playing too far off someone, they can still get huge chunk plays. Throw a ball 7 yards and it turns into 20 if the WR has space.

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have already came to the conclusion no matter who we get as coach, if we don't win the SB almost nobody will be happy. Every coach we have ever had has been thrashed by the Colts fan base even Dungy. Most Colts fans jump off cliffs when we lose a game or 2 and if we don't win a SB within the 1st 3 years of a regime, they want the GM and coach to be fired. This a trend I have noticed with this fan base. 

Sorry, but it's not the same. We just collapsed and gave up a 3 score lead because we chose to go uber conservative on both sides of the ball. I'm less irritated if we just get blown out, or lose a tough one that was back and forth all game. This game/loss was just unnecessary. like several the last few years. Reich did so well the 1st half, and to start the 2H. He just totally changed gears and we lost because of it.

[ojsglove]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have already came to the conclusion no matter who we get as coach, if we don't win the SB almost nobody will be happy. Every coach we have ever had has been thrashed by the Colts fan base even Dungy. Most Colts fans jump off cliffs when we lose a game or 2 and if we don't win a SB within the 1st 3 years of a regime, they want the GM and coach to be fired. This a trend I have noticed with this fan base. 

Winning the Big Game is what every team goes into the season with.  Knowing your chances of getting there because your coach isn't capable, kind of mutes the enthusiasm with the fan base, which means smaller attendance at the stadium, which affects the bottom line.  Do the math.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, ojsglove said:

Winning the Big Game is what every team goes into the season with.  Knowing your chances of getting there because your coach isn't capable, kind of mutes the enthusiasm with the fan base, which means smaller attendance at the stadium, which affects the bottom line.  Do the math.

I have just seen it time and time again with this fan base, after we lost in 2005 most of the fan base gave up on Dungy and we even had Peyton. I can only go how a lot of people post. Reich is only in year 4, we can't keep hiring coaches and then fire them after 3 or 4 seasons. Nobody does that unless the coach just flat stinks.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, indyagent17 said:

After week 3 I brought this up about Reich may be losing the team and I got the most hatful responses. 
 

Here we are again, our head coach keeps second guessing his decisions every game. He is either too conservative then too aggressive, one misguided decision after another!

 

 I have played very high level hockey in my 20’s and 30’s and when a player sees his coach being so erratic it changes the tenor of the locker room and believe me our players are questioning Reich and are getting frustrated with their head coach being flat our incompetent at times. It will only get worse because Reich never learns from his mistakes and misgivings as a coach. 

Oh, Dear God….       

 

I don’t know what level you played and frankly I don’t care.    Your level is a long way from the NFL.   On top of that, our Colts put a premium on character,  so no one here knows what the locker room is thinking about Frank. 
 

Im sure we have a frustrated locker room.  You don’t have to be a former professional player to know that.

 

But Frank never throws anyone under the bus.   He says he has to do better, the coaches have to do better and so do the players.   That goes over well in the locker room.  
 

And who on our team is playing well enough to be griping about the head coach?   Seriously?   Honestly?   Who?

Not anyone on defense.   Not anyone on offense.   Frank’s offense had more than 500 yards of offense last night.   With a healthy kicker we win the game.   Period.  
 

You’re working way too hard to create an issue when there isn’t one.   Honestly. 

[ojsglove]

Exactly what I'm saying we trotted out our injured kicker with the game on the line.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

Exactly what I'm saying we trotted out our injured kicker with the game on the line.

Actually the 1st FG was a chip shot and looked online when he kicked it , it was just blocked. The 2nd FG was from 47 yards, it was either that or go for a hailmary. I don't blame Frank at all for this loss, that is just me. Eberflus has complete control of the D, not Frank. Our Pass D and playing prevent was really just dumb.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Actually the 1st FG was a chip shot and looked online when he kicked it , it was just blocked. The 2nd FG was from 47 yards, it was either that or go for a hailmary. I don't blame Frank at all for this loss, that is just me. Eberflus has complete control of the D, not Frank. Our Pass D and playing prevent was really just dumb.

You don't have problem with running it 3 straight times once we got into the RZ after we just dominated them with a great mix of passing and running. When you know your kicker is hurt... 

[jbaron04]

56 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

I think this is a thing that is kind of written off at times but should be a major concern.

 

Little issues become major concerns, like calling 3 straight runs when the offense is playing lights out, is the kind of stuff players notice and dont like.

 

Even things like choosing to go for two when you dont have to......players like that to a point, usually when its working. But when it costs you games they start talking about that stuff and the coach might lose a little respect amongst the team as a result.

 

Bad gameplans. Players talk about this kind of stuff amongst themselves. If they feel Reich is getting outcoached....it WILL be discussed. 

 

Not putting players a in a position to excel. Some guys might feel like they arent being utilized correctly. They talk about this stuff. They have friends on the team. They have feelings about how they are treated.

 

This stuff can snowball and become a problem very quick. I think the Colts have a good group of guys but all humans are susceptible to this stuff. Stay tuned.

Every week I watch the player press conferences and it’s always we didn’t expect that or they didn’t show this etc… so it maybe true 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, EastStreet said:

You don't have problem with running it 3 straight times once we got into the RZ after we just dominated them with a great mix of passing and running. When you know your kicker is hurt... 

That I do have a problem with but Blakenship had just made a FG prior to that and it was a short FG. I guess we could nitpick a few things Frank did wrong but our offense had over 500 yards in total.

[ojsglove]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That I do have a problem with but Blakenship had just made a FG prior to that and it was a short FG. I guess we could nitpick a few things Frank did wrong but our offense had over 500 yards in total.

And still lost,  how did that happen???

[2006Coltsbestever]

The way our Pass D is playing/scheme, we just can't beat elite teams on a regular basis. So I have accepted that for now, I hope we can get it corrected. 

2 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

And still lost,  how did that happen???

Our Pass D stinks  

[ojsglove]

I like ya brother, but our D shouldn't have had to come back on the field, we had this game.  We have a pretty good team, but, Frank ain't going to take us where we need to be.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

I like ya brother, but our D shouldn't have had to come back on the field, we had this game.  We have a pretty good team, but, Frank ain't going to take us where we need to be.

Frank may or may not but what coach will? We have enough talent to be good but as of now I don't think we have enough to win a SB. Frank has made the playoffs 2 of the 3 years he has coached and has a playoff win.

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That I do have a problem with but Blakenship had just made a FG prior to that and it was a short FG. I guess we could nitpick a few things Frank did wrong but our offense had over 500 yards in total.

IMO, our O needed to help our D in the late 3rd and 4th. Instead, we just put it in neutral. And if the kicker is hurt, he's hurt. You try to avoid him kicking, especially after he missed an XP.

[WoolMagnet]

Not sure how you lose the team. They practice right there in Indy just about every day.

  i mean, Patty Mac could always be found in, i mean around, the canal.

[rockywoj]

19 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

And still lost,  how did that happen???

Because Reich didn’t take the 90%+ single PAT after the 2nd TD, instead going for the much lower % for the Colts 2 pt try in a panic because the first TD extra point was missed.  Giving away early in game give me points early in games are coaching decisions that continue to cause the team to lose games.  Of course, there’s other reasons, but that single point was the difference between a 2 score lead and a three score lead.  Reich seems lost in the illusion of analytics rather than looking at scoring differentials and game flow.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, EastStreet said:

IMO, our O needed to help our D in the late 3rd and 4th. Instead, we just put it in neutral. And if the kicker is hurt, he's hurt. You try to avoid him kicking, especially after he missed an XP.

I don't really disagree with that but up until the 4th Qtr our D was playing lights out. Frank may have been thinking no way our D can blow a 16 point lead. You never know what coaches are thinking. I honestly thought no way our D would lay a total egg like that either. I figured Lamar would get hot and make a little bit of a comeback because our Pass D in the past has been bad but not like what he did. 

[Lancer1]

I think Frank is a decent coach, a good leader of men and a great character guy - where he often falls short is in play calling, and decision making at certain, crucial times. I feel if he turned over play calling duties to an aggressive, (but not foolish) imaginative OC and focused on management over the entire team, we would do alot better although injuries, more than any other factor cost us the win last night - that, and the defense got totally gassed late in the 4th, and overtime.

 

It reminded me of the game against Pittsburgh last year in which we started great, dominated for most of it and then just gave it up in the end when the defense got tired, because the team hit a point total in which they seemed to believe that they had enough of them to win, and stopped aggressively trying to get more of them.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't really disagree with that but up until the 4th Qtr our D was playing lights out. Frank may have been thinking no way our D can blow a 16 point lead. You never know what coaches are thinking. I honestly thought no way our D would lay a total egg like that either. I figured Lamar would get hot and make a little bit of a comeback because our Pass D in the past has been bad but not like what he did. 

We gave up that 43 yard TD to Brown in the mid 3rd right when we started going prevent?

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Because Reich didn’t take the 90%+ single PAT after the 2nd TD, instead going for the much lower % for the Colts 2 pt try in a panic because the first TD extra point was missed.  Giving away early in game give me points early in games are coaching decisions that continue to cause the team to lose games.  Of course, there’s other reasons, but that single point was the difference between a 2 score lead and a three score lead.  Reich seems lost in the illusion of analytics rather than looking at scoring differentials and game flow.

This has already been rehashed by other posters. Had Reich kicked the extra point and we go up 23-3, The Ravens would kick the extra point to pull within 23-10, 22-9/23-10 same difference. The failed 2 point conversion is not why we lost. 

[ojsglove]

6 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Because Reich didn’t take the 90%+ single PAT after the 2nd TD, instead going for the much lower % for the Colts 2 pt try in a panic because the first TD extra point was missed.  Giving away early in game give me points early in games are coaching decisions that continue to cause the team to lose games.  Of course, there’s other reasons, but that single point was the difference between a 2 score lead and a three score lead.  Reich seems lost in the illusion of analytics rather than looking at scoring differentials and game flow.

EXACTLLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

We gave up that 43 yard TD to Brown in the mid 3rd right when we started going prevent?

True but we came back and got a FG and was up 25-9 in the 4th. % wise if a team has a 25-9 lead in the 4th Qtr, they rarely lose is all I am saying. It takes an epic collapse to do so and our D had an epic collapse.  

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

You don't have problem with running it 3 straight times once we got into the RZ after we just dominated them with a great mix of passing and running. When you know your kicker is hurt... 

 

It was two short passes, one of which Taylor turned into a huge game all of his own. I can understand going back to him.

 

But mostly, the last time they passed it on that drive, Wentz got sacked, which would have likely be the end of that drive, but they got bailed out by the penalty.

I imagine Reich didn’t want to risk getting sacked again and putting his hurt K further out (or worse, turning the ball over). Plus, they were forcing BAL to use their timeouts and wanted to let the defense rest. They were up by 8 points…running the ball is definitely the play. 

 

[bWild]

As a coach of 20+ years, I can say that this is 100% true. Players need support and consistency from their coaches. When players aren’t seeing that, the locker goes south in a hurry and it always starts with the team leaders. Look no further than Leonard’s post game presser…

[IrsaysArmy]

8 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

I think this is a thing that is kind of written off at times but should be a major concern.

 

Little issues become major concerns, like calling 3 straight runs when the offense is playing lights out, is the kind of stuff players notice and dont like.

 

Even things like choosing to go for two when you dont have to......players like that to a point, usually when its working. But when it costs you games they start talking about that stuff and the coach might lose a little respect amongst the team as a result.

 

Bad gameplans. Players talk about this kind of stuff amongst themselves. If they feel Reich is getting outcoached....it WILL be discussed. 

 

Not putting players a in a position to excel. Some guys might feel like they arent being utilized correctly. They talk about this stuff. They have friends on the team. They have feelings about how they are treated.

 

This stuff can snowball and become a problem very quick. I think the Colts have a good group of guys but all humans are susceptible to this stuff. Stay tuned.

You make some good points. However, if we had a kicker who could make kicks we would be celebrating one of the best wins in Reichs tenure. 
 

[Indyfan4life]

7 minutes ago, IrsaysArmy said:

You make some good points. However, if we had a kicker who could make kicks we would be celebrating one of the best wins in Reichs tenure. 
 

Ah, so you’re just ignoring the hip injury he was kicking through? You know, that hip injury. The part of your body kickers need? No injury means we kick PAT instead of 2 pt conversions. Glow missing his block on Campbell didn’t help matters. 

[IrsaysArmy]

Im aware of the hip. I’m sure it affected him. At the end of the day he didn’t get the job done and he was a huge reason why we didn’t win Monday.

[Shive]

5 hours ago, shasta519 said:

I imagine Reich didn’t want to risk getting sacked again and putting his hurt K further out (or worse, turning the ball over). Plus, they were forcing BAL to use their timeouts and wanted to let the defense rest. They were up by 8 points…running the ball is definitely the play. 

He said almost exactly this in his press conference as his reason for running it on that play.

[IrsaysArmy]

2 minutes ago, Shive said:

He said almost exactly this in his press conference as his reason for running it on that play.

The play calls we’re more than fine. 

[CoachLite]

It's not enough to say there is a problem. Our record at this point is 1 win and 4 losses - obviously there is a problem. More correctly, there are a lot of complex, interconnected problems that haven't been identified, let alone corrected. All we have are excuses. That will never solve any of the problems.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Shive said:

He said almost exactly this in his press conference as his reason for running it on that play.

Hadn’t watched it. But the mindset made perfect sense in that case.

[Zoltan]

12 hours ago, EastStreet said:

You don't have problem with running it 3 straight times once we got into the RZ after we just dominated them with a great mix of passing and running. When you know your kicker is hurt... 

 

I didn't I thought it was the right play. Blankenship had already made a longer fg, so it was reasonable to believe he could make it. Then it really wasn't Blankenships fault on the block that was on Glowinski getting lazy. 

[Zoltan]

5 hours ago, bWild said:

As a coach of 20+ years, I can say that this is 100% true. Players need support and consistency from their coaches. When players aren’t seeing that, the locker goes south in a hurry and it always starts with the team leaders. Look no further than Leonard’s post game presser…

What level you coach?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Didn’t the players give Reich the game ball after the Miami game. I don’t think he has lost the locker room.