The Jets/Colts trade story

[csmopar]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/10/22/sam-darnold-trade-ghosts-jets-colts-trade-may-haunt-new-york-quenton-nelson-rock-yasin/4062034002/?fbclid=IwAR1YokDDVbMlv1yoyP2qbQ7MK1qmN4wAe67hwy19LYkMu9KC9vRoR6n8wA8

I find this interesting given the heat Ballard gets sometimes from many on this board for his draft moves.  Not all have panned out 100% but it is interesting. 

[1959Colts]

I  got scared. Thought we were trading Hilton.

[Colts1324]

1 minute ago, 1959Colts said:

I  got scared. Thought we were trading Hilton.

Yeah I freaked out for a second 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/10/22/sam-darnold-trade-ghosts-jets-colts-trade-may-haunt-new-york-quenton-nelson-rock-yasin/4062034002/?fbclid=IwAR1YokDDVbMlv1yoyP2qbQ7MK1qmN4wAe67hwy19LYkMu9KC9vRoR6n8wA8

I find this interesting given the heat Ballard gets sometimes from many on this board for his draft moves.  Not all have panned out 100% but it is interesting. 

 

What's the gist of the article?

 

IndyStar doesn't like my adblocker, but I don't like their ads, so I'm in a stalemate with that website...  

[MPStack]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/10/22/sam-darnold-trade-ghosts-jets-colts-trade-may-haunt-new-york-quenton-nelson-rock-yasin/4062034002/?fbclid=IwAR1YokDDVbMlv1yoyP2qbQ7MK1qmN4wAe67hwy19LYkMu9KC9vRoR6n8wA8

I find this interesting given the heat Ballard gets sometimes from many on this board for his draft moves.  Not all have panned out 100% but it is interesting. 

For the most part, I think Ballard has done well drafting. I question some of the 2nd Rd picks, (Lewis, Banogu and Turay) because I don’t view them as 3 down players. I’m warming up to Turay cautiously, but his last game was quite impressive. CB gets a pass on Q. Wilson, due to scheme change. 
 

Ballard is getting contributions from well over 50% of his draft classes, which is impressive. Glad he’s our GM.

[zibby43]

This title needs to be changed like, immediately.

 

 

[Fluke_33]

9 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

What's the gist of the article?

 

IndyStar doesn't like my adblocker, but I don't like their ads, so I'm in a stalemate with that website...  

Get their  coltsxtra app on your phone.  Articles are free and i've never had an issue with ads 

[TyTheGhost13]

Hey um let’s change the title of this thread. 

[21isSuperman]

17 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

I  got scared. Thought we were trading Hilton.

 

15 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

Yeah I freaked out for a second 

 

7 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

This title needs to be changed like, immediately.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, TyTheGhost13 said:

Hey um let’s change the title of this thread. 

Title changed

[21isSuperman]

15 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

What's the gist of the article?

 

IndyStar doesn't like my adblocker, but I don't like their ads, so I'm in a stalemate with that website...  

Long story short:

 

Colts Received:
OG Quenton Nelson
OT Braden Smith
DE Kemoko Turay
RB Jordan Wilkins
CB Rock Ya-Sin

 

Jets Received:
QB Sam Darnold

 

While Darnold has shown flashes, Indy acquired multiple starters and some rotational pieces from this trade

[Lucky Colts Fan]

6 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

Get their  coltsxtra app on your phone.  Articles are free and i've never had an issue with ads 

 

Can't do apps.

 

I don't have a smart phone.

 

I'm still Andrew Lucking it with a dumb phone.  

[King Colt]

"Jets-Colts"those two words together that will forever burn in my soul.

[Superman]

Meh. The Colts won that trade from a value standpoint, and that was clear the minute the trade was reported. Like most everyone else, I think Ballard and Co did a good job with the picks yielded from that trade.

 

But the Jets made the trade because they thought they were getting a franchise QB, and the jury is still out on that. In eight years, if Darnold is a top eight QB and the Jets are going deep in the playoffs, while Smith, Turay and Wilkins are on second or third contracts with different teams, I think the Jets would be okay with it, because having a franchise QB is important in the NFL.

 

Also, it's frustrating and annoying to me when people write off 22 year old QBs with 16 starts, after a bad game against the NFL's best defense, two weeks back from a prolonged absence, playing for a bad team. It's too soon to say what Darnold will or won't be, and it's especially shortsighted to discuss his value after one bad game.

[Coffeedrinker]

26 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

 

 

Title changed

Now, I'm curious, what was the original title of the thread?

[Lucky Colts Fan]

4 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Now, I'm curious, what was the original title of the thread?

 

Trading Ghost

 

Or something like that.

 

People understandably thought it was about trading TY.

[csmopar]

49 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Trading Ghost

 

Or something like that.

 

People understandably thought it was about trading TY.

Lol yeah that wasn’t the best choice. That said, people should read an entire article not just the headline ahhahaha

[Four2itus]

1 hour ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Can't do apps.

 

I don't have a smart phone.

 

I'm still Andrew Lucking it with a dumb phone.  

I knew I liked you. I dont have internet on my phone either .

[IinD]

Darnold is garbage.. Lol

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, IinD said:

Darnold is garbage.. Lol

Far to early to make that call

[Virtuoso80]

25 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Far to early to make that call

Didnt Notre Dame's defense make him look like garbage?

[DougDew]

I don't remember anybody questioning the trade down with the Jets, from #3 to #6.  I think most would have questioned Ballard if he DIDN'T trade out of #3.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Long story short:

 

Colts Received:
OG Quenton Nelson
OT Braden Smith
DE Kemoko Turay
RB Jordan Wilkins
CB Rock Ya-Sin

 

Jets Received:
QB Sam Darnold

 

While Darnold has shown flashes, Indy acquired multiple starters and some rotational pieces from this trade

I don't think the article is accurate by saying that is the compensation from the Jets trade. 

 

Several decisions were made after the trade.   The Colts did not get 5 picks from the Jets in exchange for 1.  

 

 

[Goatface Killah]

We were taking Nelson no matter what, so for us it was a clear win.

 

For the Jets, the jury is still out and will be for a few more years. 2 weeks ago it looked like a good move. After last week everyone wants to % on Darnold, but I still think hes gonna be a good QB for them long term. 

[csmopar]

5 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

We were taking Nelson no matter what, so for us it was a clear win.

 

For the Jets, the jury is still out and will be for a few more years. 2 weeks ago it looked like a good move. After last week everyone wants to % on Darnold, but I still think hes gonna be a good QB for them long term. 

I agree. I mean even Peyton Manning had his lumps his first season or three

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I don't think the article is accurate by saying that is the compensation from the Jets trade. 

 

Several decisions were made after the trade.   The Colts did not get 5 picks from the Jets in exchange for 1. 

They mention that too, but this is the net result of that trade

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't think the article is accurate by saying that is the compensation from the Jets trade. 

 

Several decisions were made after the trade.   The Colts did not get 5 picks from the Jets in exchange for 1.  

 

 

The net result

[luv_pony_express]

13 hours ago, Superman said:

Meh. The Colts won that trade from a value standpoint, and that was clear the minute the trade was reported. Like most everyone else, I think Ballard and Co did a good job with the picks yielded from that trade.

 

But the Jets made the trade because they thought they were getting a franchise QB, and the jury is still out on that. In eight years, if Darnold is a top eight QB and the Jets are going deep in the playoffs, while Smith, Turay and Wilkins are on second or third contracts with different teams, I think the Jets would be okay with it, because having a franchise QB is important in the NFL.

 

Also, it's frustrating and annoying to me when people write off 22 year old QBs with 16 starts, after a bad game against the NFL's best defense, two weeks back from a prolonged absence, playing for a bad team. It's too soon to say what Darnold will or won't be, and it's especially shortsighted to discuss his value after one bad game.

 

While I agree with all that, I certainly understand Jets fans’ angst.

 

In fairness, part of it may be lingering memories of quarterback busts gone by (Sanchez, Smith) — sort of a “Oh boy, here we go again” dread.

 

So, yeah, it’s too early to write Darnold off.  He absolutely has had some very good games.  And the team around him is pretty bad (though the picks they gave up to get him factors into that, too).

 

But you have to understand that most Jets fans were convinced they made a masterful trade and you don’t have to be writing off Darnold’s career to say that the early returns favor a different conclusion.

 

Quarterbacks don’t get 8 years to prove themselves in today’s NFL.

[lollygagger8]

That Indy Star website is the worst!!! 

[DougDew]

12 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

They mention that too, but this is the net result of that trade

Its not the net result of the trade.  Its the result of the trade and subsequent decisions.    The way its presented makes it look like the Herschel Walker trade, which it was not. 

 

We didn't get Ya-Sin because of the trade.  We could/would have had him with our own 26th pick.

 

We now have a second round pick from the Skins, and another player to come and add to the list if you want, but that is due to yet another decision.  A decision to trade down with the Skins in a different draft.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Its not the net result of the trade.  Its the result of the trade and subsequent decisions.    The way its presented makes it look like the Herschel Walker trade, which it was not. 

 

We didn't get Ya-Sin because of the trade.  We could/would have had him with our own 26th pick.

 

We now have a second round pick from the Skins, and another player to come and add to the list if you want, but that is due to yet another decision.  A decision to trade down with the Skins in a different draft.

 

Yes it is the net result of the trade.  The three 2018 picks we got from the Jets (which we turned into four picks) = Nelson, Smith, and Turay + Wilkins, while the 2019 pick = Ya-Sin.

 

You don't know who would have been picked with the 26th pick, so that's just a hypothetical.  And the trade with the Skins was for that 26th pick, which has nothing to do with the Jets trade.

 

Either way, Ya-Sin was a direct result of the trade, so if you want to nitpick, the Colts got Nelson, Smith, Ya-Sin, and a 2018 2nd round pick from that one trade.  Not Herschel Walker, but still a pretty good haul, especially when you factor in that Ballard turned that 2nd into Turay and Wilkins, with a net result of 5 players for 1.  

[Superman]

3 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

While I agree with all that, I certainly understand Jets fans’ angst.

 

In fairness, part of it may be lingering memories of quarterback busts gone by (Sanchez, Smith) — sort of a “Oh boy, here we go again” dread.

 

So, yeah, it’s too early to write Darnold off.  He absolutely has had some very good games.  And the team around him is pretty bad (though the picks they gave up to get him factors into that, too).

 

But you have to understand that most Jets fans were convinced they made a masterful trade and you don’t have to be writing off Darnold’s career to say that the early returns favor a different conclusion.

 

Quarterbacks don’t get 8 years to prove themselves in today’s NFL.

 

I didn't read the article from the perspective of Jets fans, and I never really considered how they felt about the trade at the time. I don't see what was "masterful" about it, even when it happened. Maybe they already knew the Browns were going with Mayfield, but I doubt it; the trade was done more than a month before the draft. So to me, they came up to #3 without knowing that Darnold would still be there. If Jets fans are worried about having drafted a potential bust, to me that's independent of the trade. 

 

I felt like the article was written from a "neutral" standpoint: this is what the yield has been for both teams, and it makes the Colts the winner of the trade. And I think it's too early to talk about the yield right now. From a value standpoint, the Colts won, but we knew that already.

 

As for QBs getting eight years, I'm not saying it would take that long for Darnold to prove himself. I'm saying if we look back on this trade and realize that Darnold is a really good QB who helps the Jets contend, and half the players the Colts got from the trade aren't even on the Colts roster anymore, our evaluation of this trade will be different. Jets fans will be fine with it -- IF Darnold is a franchise QB. Which is why the Jets gave up so much value in the first place.

[Myles]

4 hours ago, luv_pony_express said:

 

 

 

Quarterbacks don’t get 8 years to prove themselves in today’s NFL.

Andy Dalton disagrees.

[DougDew]

41 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Yes it is the net result of the trade.  The three 2018 picks we got from the Jets (which we turned into four picks) = Nelson, Smith, and Turay + Wilkins, while the 2019 pick = Ya-Sin.

 

You don't know who would have been picked with the 26th pick, so that's just a hypothetical.  And the trade with the Skins was for that 26th pick, which has nothing to do with the Jets trade.

 

Either way, Ya-Sin was a direct result of the trade, so if you want to nitpick, the Colts got Nelson, Smith, Ya-Sin, and a 2018 2nd round pick from that one trade.  Not Herschel Walker, but still a pretty good haul, especially when you factor in that Ballard turned that 2nd into Turay and Wilkins, with a net result of 5 players for 1.  

I think saying it that way is inaccurate.   It is the net result of Ballard's decisions, including the trade.  He should be commended for all of those subsequent decisions too.  

 

The Jets did not give up all of those players to get Darnold because they weren't in a position to trade down from 3 and accumulate those picks to begin with.. They could not make the trade for picks if they got Nelson with their pick.  They could have never had those picks, so comparing what they got from the trade up (Darnold), with what we got subsequent to the trade makes no sense, IMO.

 

If you look at how the article is portraying the trade from the opposite direction, the net result of the trade would be the Jets receiving Nelson, Smith, Turay, Wilkins, Ya-Sin, etc. and we received (kept) Darnold at #3.   No.

 

[Myles]

18 hours ago, csmopar said:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/10/22/sam-darnold-trade-ghosts-jets-colts-trade-may-haunt-new-york-quenton-nelson-rock-yasin/4062034002/?fbclid=IwAR1YokDDVbMlv1yoyP2qbQ7MK1qmN4wAe67hwy19LYkMu9KC9vRoR6n8wA8

I find this interesting given the heat Ballard gets sometimes from many on this board for his draft moves.  Not all have panned out 100% but it is interesting. 

Maybe I missed the thread, but I have not seen "many" on here give Ballard any heat for his draft day decisions.   Most of us are overwhelmingly supportive of his moves.    

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

Maybe I missed the thread, but I have not seen "many" on here give Ballard any heat for his draft day decisions.   Most of us are overwhelmingly supportive of his moves.    

there's been several... 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

20 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think saying it that way is inaccurate.   It is the net result of Ballard's decisions, including the trade.  He should be commended for all of those subsequent decisions too.  

 

The Jets did not give up all of those players to get Darnold because they weren't in a position to trade down from 3 and accumulate those picks to begin with by not making the trade and picking Nelson at 6.  They could have never had those picks, so comparing what they got from the trade up (Darnold), with what we got subsequent to the trade makes no sense, IMO.

 

If you look at how the article is portraying the trade from the opposite direction, the net result of the trade would be the Jets receiving Nelson, Smith, Turay, Wilkins, Ya-Sin, etc. and we received (kept) Darnold at #3.   No.

 

Ok, take the player names out of it, then.

 

Still a pretty good haul.

 

Four picks for one.  To move three spots in the draft.  The Jets could presumably have used those four picks the same way the Colts did, but that's getting into hypotheticals.

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Ok, take the player names out of it, then.

 

Still a pretty good haul.

 

Four picks for one.  To move three spots in the draft.  The Jets could presumably have used those four picks the same way the Colts did, but that's getting into hypotheticals.

I agree.  I'm just looking at it from the Jets Fan's perspective and I don't think its accurate to say it that way because the Jets probably would have done something different with those picks, or not had the same picks.  They seem to be looking at it in an extremely negative light.  Ballard also used a Colt pick to trade up to take Lewis, which doesn't look so smart at the moment.