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Defjamz26

What Happened to the Quick Passing game?

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Last year one of the big reasons for Luck’s stellar final campaign was Reich emphasizing this short/quick passing scheme where the ball came out quick. He also brought in the RPOs which was great.

 

2 games into the Brissett era and it seems those concepts are virtually gone. It seems like every play Brissett was dropping back deep. You can tell because there was way more pressure this game then any last year which isn’t the OL. It’s how long Jacoby has the ball.

 

I just can’t understand why they went away from that. Especially with Brissett. He’s probably better suited for that.

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I thought that Brissett did a fairly good job of getting rid of the ball quickly against San Diego.  

 

He didn't yesterday.  Although part of me wonders if the Titans had not taken it away somehow.  

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We played 2 teams with solid secondaries and had to find other ways to beat them. 

 

Brissett will eventually figure out how to throw against tough coverage but really that's the kind of lesson that it takes years of NFL experience to truly master.  Even the greats like Brady and Manning didn't really figure that out immediately

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18 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

We are under using Campbell. Also not using Hines correct. 

Last year Hines was a reception machine. He was almost always open too. Not sure why his role has diminished.

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28 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Last year Hines was a reception machine. He was almost always open too. Not sure why his role has diminished.

Agreed. We've used him more between the tackles, with no positive results, and way less out in space like last year where he can do some damage.

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With Funch out, we’ve got to figure out schemes to get Cain and Campbell into the mix. Eventually TY will be doubled every single game, so they have to figure out some type of routes and patterns for them to get open or involved. 

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Teams are not scared of Jacoby going deep and sitting on the short stuff.  

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I think his game should be built around the short quick stuff and the ground game because he's really not much of a runner.  Get that going and adjust when you see areas of opportunity deep.  Should be something like what we see with Tom Brady.

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35 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

With Funch out, we’ve got to figure out schemes to get Cain and Campbell into the mix. Eventually TY will be doubled every single game, so they have to figure out some type of routes and patterns for them to get open or involved. 

They need to pull out more crossing routes for guys like Campbell and Rodgers. Hines should be running wheel routes. Get Jacoby into more 3 step drop backs. Heck put Hilton in the slot more.

 

4 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think his game should be built around the short quick stuff and the ground game because he's really not much of a runner.  Get that going and adjust when you see areas of opportunity deep.  Should be something like what we see with Tom Brady.

Exactly. With Brady the ball is out in 3 seconds. This is what we did with Luck last season and we carved teams up with it.

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Week 1, Brissett's average time to throw was 2.33 seconds, third quickest in the NFL.

 

Week 2, Brissett's average time to throw was 3.01 seconds, fifth slowest in the NFL (so far; two teams playing tonight). 

 

Two different defensive approaches in the first two games, but he's going to have to find a happy medium so that he can attack downfield but still get rid of the ball. He went from one extreme to the other in the first two weeks.

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3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Exactly. With Brady the ball is out in 3 seconds. This is what we did with Luck last season and we carved teams up with it.

3 seconds is not a quick passing game.  3 seconds is actually a long time.  A quick passing game gets the ball out in about 2.3 to 2.4 seconds a normal passing game averages about 2.5.  And while I'm not a fan of PFF game grades, they did an interesting study a while ago and found that a when a QB holds the ball for longer than 2.5 seconds their completion percentage and QB rating decrease and turnovers increase.

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Outside of TY, the receivers are not good, yet.  Funchess was signed but didn't play.  Campbell was drafted but was hurt during preseason and will take some time.

 

Don't blame all of this on JB, when the same problem of not having very good receiving options on the field other than TY has been a problem for years.

 

However, JB is probably not as quick as Luck.  And he is really not the running threat Luck was, so RPO may not ever be as successful.

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55 minutes ago, B~Town said:

Teams are not scared of Jacoby going deep and sitting on the short stuff.  

This will become more apparent if JB does not have some success down field.  One of Luck's fault's was that he was too chunk oriented.  JB has been a bit of the opposite so far in both games, IMO.

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You could tell by how far he was dropping back they were looking for the bomb a lot more.  Problem is it wasn't there so we should have start peppering the short quick stuff and the crossers.  Quick dump offs to the backs.   His numbers would probably have looked better. 

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29 minutes ago, Superman said:

Week 1, Brissett's average time to throw was 2.33 seconds, third quickest in the NFL.

 

Week 2, Brissett's average time to throw was 3.01 seconds, fifth slowest in the NFL (so far; two teams playing tonight). 

 

Two different defensive approaches in the first two games, but he's going to have to find a happy medium so that he can attack downfield but still get rid of the ball. He went from one extreme to the other in the first two weeks.

To me he looked hesitant and not sure in what he was seeing yesterday. The Titans did the same to Mayfield last week. They present some exotic front formations and coverage setups that seem to confuse inexperienced QBs. It's possible part of it was due to what the defense was showing him yesterday. 

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42 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think his game should be built around the short quick stuff and the ground game because he's really not much of a runner.  Get that going and adjust when you see areas of opportunity deep.  Should be something like what we see with Tom Brady.

 

Brady throws a lot of short stuff but it's not necessarily always quick.  I think and this is just my opinion that the basis of their passing game is the long crossers.  Brady sits back there eats a sandwich and hits Edelman or some RB after he has sprinted 20 yds across the field.  These routes are almost impossible to guard and are very easy throws as long as you have the patience to hold the ball and move around till it comes open and are able to hit the hot read on blitzes and toss it into the stands if the front 4 bring the funk and Brady is very very good at those things.

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The short quick stuff has always worked against the exotic fronts. When Peyton had trouble with it he studied Brady and Bellichick to defeat it. 

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22 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Outside of TY, the receivers are not good, yet.  Funchess was signed but didn't play.  Campbell was drafted but was hurt during preseason and will take some time.

 

Don't blame all of this on JB, when the same problem of not having very good receiving options on the field other than TY has been a problem for years.

 

However, JB is probably not as quick as Luck.  And he is really not the running threat Luck was, so RPO may not ever be as successful.

 

I think you're confusing RPO (Run/Pass option) with Read/Option.  RPO is where the QB decides whether to hand the ball off to the RB to let him run, or pull the ball back and make a quick throw.  It's not designed for the QB to take off and run, that's Read/Option. 

 

Nick Foles was running a lot of RPO with Philly last year and he's not nearly as athletic as Brissett is. 

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Gee, i watched the game.
  Most all of his completitions were quick short passes.
 And he had 5 of his 11 incompletitions went down as passes defended, excellent defense BTW.
 Give Vrabel, his staff, and players, a bunch of credit.
 Cain & Campbell need to get in tune ASAP to complete our attack.
  The jump is in year 2, so it is going to be up and down for awhile.

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You don't have to be all that athletic to successfully run RPO.  I think Jacoby was running RPO at NC State. 

Just now, throwing BBZ said:

Gee, i watched the game.
  Most all of his completitions were quick short passes.
 And he had 5 of his 11 incompletitions went down as passes defended, excellent defense BTW.
 Give Vrabel, his staff, and players, a bunch of credit.
 Cain & Campbell need to get in tune ASAP to complete our attack.
  The jump is in year 2, so it is going to be up and down for awhile.

That was after going deep and finding nothing most of the time.  Most of them were not quick.

Superman just illustrated that. 

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5 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

I think you're confusing RPO (Run/Pass option) with Read/Option.  RPO is where the QB decides whether to hand the ball off to the RB to let him run, or pull the ball back and make a quick throw.  It's not designed for the QB to take off and run, that's Read/Option. 

 

Nick Foles was running a lot of RPO with Philly last year and he's not nearly as athletic as Brissett is. 

Ok, that's right.  Thanks for the correction.

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1 hour ago, B~Town said:

Teams are not scared of Jacoby going deep and sitting on the short stuff.  

I don't believe this because a lot of what we are seeing is 2 deep and other coverages designed to stop the long ball.  I think that is why we are running the football so much .

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7 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

5TDs, 1INT, leading the division. That's all I'm looking at right now.

i'm kinda here too.  "Ugly but effective" against a couple of good defenses is significant forward progress for a guy like Brissett.  He's breaking through and battling to find ways to contribute, in situations that completely swallowed him up 2 years ago.

 

We'll see if he can feast on bad teams.  Right now all we've seen him against is a team that went 12-4 last year, and a team with a great D that only missed the playoffs because their QB got hurt

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15 minutes ago, krunk said:

You don't have to be all that athletic to successfully run RPO.  I think Jacoby was running RPO at NC State. 

That was after going deep and finding nothing most of the time.  Most of them were not quick.

Superman just illustrated that. 

Tennesse has excellent, athletic LBs and you are going to have to go over their heads with intermediate stuff to have much success.  Something Jacoby has not yet proven he can do.  

 

I haven't seen the end zone cut ups, so I don't know if he had options or not, but I do know that there were many plays when he stood there with time looking downfield and did not throw or dumped it off.  That could be because no one was open and/or he doesn't see the field well.  I think the second option is probable.

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7 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't believe this because a lot of what we are seeing is 2 deep and other coverages designed to stop the long ball.  I think that is why we are running the football so much .

Deep is not the issue.  It's intermediate.  Deep is much easier to guard than intermediate.  All you have to do is run with the guy and adjust a centerfielder to help. 

 

Intermediate is definitely advantage to the offense as guys break 12-25 yds down the field and the d has to try to mirror that.  That is very difficult.

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I thought the same actually..

 

But reading the other posts. Okay, I'll relax you're right a couple games against good defenses. We'll see if we can carve up Atlanta

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I will be looking forward to Zack Hicks breakdown of this game and what he saw from JB.

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6 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

i'm kinda here too.  "Ugly but effective" against a couple of good defenses is significant forward progress for a guy like Brissett.  He's breaking through and battling to find ways to contribute, in situations that completely swallowed him up 2 years ago.

 

We'll see if he can feast on bad teams.  Right now all we've seen him against is a team that went 12-4 last year, and a team with a great D that only missed the playoffs because their QB got hurt

Well if we keep averaging 185 rushing yds. per game the TD to INT rate will be steller.  I just don't see that being an every week occurrence.  One might argue that you should be winning easier running that well.

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3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Well if we keep averaging 185 rushing yds. per game the TD to INT rate will be steller.  I just don't see that being an every week occurrence.  One might argue that you should be winning easier running that well.

Yeah but when you've got a guy who's still learning on the job at QB, you take your successes where you can get them.


And for a guy who's still putting it together out there in live action, Brissett has been doing enough to win against a couple good squads.  I think there's a lot of positives to take home from that.  

 

Also it says something to me that with that dominant run game, Reich still went to Brissett in the red zone.  The fact that he can deliver in down and distance when the Titans are forced to stack against the run is a very good sign.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I will be looking forward to Zack Hicks breakdown of this game and what he saw from JB.

 

He looked a tad indecisive at times, but the Titans were doing a good job getting pressure & the secondary was lights out for the most part. But how about that play to Cain... that's a big time TD if Adoree Jackson doesn't grab his jersey then bear hug him in midair.

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1 minute ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He looked a tad indecisive at times, but the Titans were doing a good job getting pressure & the secondary was lights out for the most part. But how about that play to Cain... that's a big time TD if Adoree Jackson doesn't grab his jersey then bear hug him in midair.

The fact that most likely is a TD you can add about 50 yards to his total. Just doesn’t show up in the box score.

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11 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He looked a tad indecisive at times, but the Titans were doing a good job getting pressure & the secondary was lights out for the most part. But how about that play to Cain... that's a big time TD if Adoree Jackson doesn't grab his jersey then bear hug him in midair.

 

or if the ball wasn't so badly underthrown.  What a violent, dangerous foul though.  SHould be fined I think.

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7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The fact that most likely is a TD you can add about 50 yards to his total. Just doesn’t show up in the box score.

 

But by that logic you could add an INT since it was so poorly underthrown. If the DB turns his head the ball would land right in his lap.

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39 minutes ago, stitches said:

To me he looked hesitant and not sure in what he was seeing yesterday. The Titans did the same to Mayfield last week. They present some exotic front formations and coverage setups that seem to confuse inexperienced QBs. It's possible part of it was due to what the defense was showing him yesterday. 

 

I assume he'll look more like Week 1 against the Falcons, since they run a similar defense. Gus Bradley/Dan Quinn, same coaching tree. If they get back to that Week 1 gameplan, but find a way to take a few shots downfield, I'll be satisfied.

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12 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He looked a tad indecisive at times, but the Titans were doing a good job getting pressure & the secondary was lights out for the most part. But how about that play to Cain... that's a big time TD if Adoree Jackson doesn't grab his jersey then bear hug him in midair.

 

A tad??

 

He was double-clutching for no reason. That led to the fumble, it led to Hines getting blown up, etc. He made some really good throws yesterday, but some of his decisions were really bad, and his feet were slow all day (as a passer; he was Houdini when escaping the pocket). I thought Brissett was really bad yesterday...

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52 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 Brady sits back there eats a sandwich and hits Edelman or some RB after he has sprinted 20 yds across the field.  These routes are almost impossible to guard and are very easy throws as long as you have the patience to hold the ball and move around till it comes open and are able to hit the hot read on blitzes and toss it into the stands if the front 4 bring the funk 

 

You described perfectly what has been their bread and butter for many years.

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31 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

A tad??

 

He was double-clutching for no reason. That led to the fumble, it led to Hines getting blown up, etc. He made some really good throws yesterday, but some of his decisions were really bad, and his feet were slow all day (as a passer; he was Houdini when escaping the pocket). I thought Brissett was really bad yesterday...


Yeah, your post sort of reminds me of what I read/agreed with on football outsiders (at least in terms of what we saw yesterday):
 

Quote

The easiest high-level takeaways are about the quarterbacks. Jacoby Brissett is capable of making competent plays, but takes too long to do almost everything. Even with the much-improved offensive line, he needs things to go well and his first read to be open to succeed. While reasonably accurate, he lacks elite placement. The result is that there probably were, like the Chargers game, deep shots that he didn't attempt that a more aggressive quarterback would have (as was the case in 2017).


https://www.footballoutsiders.com/audibles/2019/audibles-line-week-2

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