What Happened to the Quick Passing game?

[chad72]

3 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

We played 2 teams with solid secondaries and had to find other ways to beat them. 

 

Brissett will eventually figure out how to throw against tough coverage but really that's the kind of lesson that it takes years of NFL experience to truly master.  Even the greats like Brady and Manning didn't really figure that out immediately

 

Like Manning used to say to Arians in his first year "but he was not open" and Arians said "in the NFL, that IS open" referring to the few inches of separation in practice.  

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

We are under using Campbell. Also not using Hines correct. 

 

do you think that might be because he missed a lot of time and practice in TC and PS?

[SteelCityColt]

3 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

do you think that might be because he missed a lot of time and practice in TC and PS?

 

But that doesn’t fit the narrative that the board knows better than the coaching staff.

[lollygagger8]

Maybe the quick passing is there, and he's just not throwing it fast enough? 

 

He's holding the ball waaaay longer than he should. 

 

I agree with what was said earlier. I would rather see Hines lines up in the WR spot instead of RB. He is a much better pass catcher than he is running back. 

[Imgrandojji]

12 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Like Manning used to say to Arians in his first year "but he was not open" and Arians said "in the NFL, that IS open" referring to the few inches of separation in practice.  

Exactly.  Brissett is learning.  The running game will help him win games as he figures this stuff out.

 

  I think it's important to note that Brissett has been money in the red zone.  This continued even despite his issues in the Titans game.  I believe it's because the Titans were forced to play against the run in the red zone and had to give Brissett room to throw.  Each time that happened Brissett was able to take advantage.

 

So there's some hope.  When teams stack against the run Brissett has to punish them, and he did.  Reich wants to make teams respect the run so that they have to guard against it, which will create openings for JB7.  As JB7 gets better at exploiting those openings, this team will cotinue to get stronger.  Maybe strong enough to compete in the playoffs.  We'll see.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

But that doesn’t fit the narrative that the board knows better than the coaching staff.

Well Reich is the one that said he felt Campbell was ready for a full work load.  

[Creekside]

30 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

If the DB turns his head the ball would land right in his lap.

 

I just re-watched it 10 times. I don't see that.

 

Neither db was in position to intercept that ball. No way.

 

Cain pulls up because the ball was "underthrown". He about gets his head ripped off because the db knew Cain was going to catch it.

 

"Poorly underthrown" balls are not catchable.

[SteelCityColt]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Well Reich is the one that said he felt Campbell was ready for a full work load.  

 Reich is also the one not putting him out there so go figure. He also said while he could take 50 snaps, he doubted he would. 

 

He’s a rookie who missed a lot of camp with a hammy, I’m happy easing him in. 

[BigQungus]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Outside of TY, the receivers are not good, yet.  Funchess was signed but didn't play.  Campbell was drafted but was hurt during preseason and will take some time.

 

Don't blame all of this on JB, when the same problem of not having very good receiving options on the field other than TY has been a problem for years.

 

However, JB is probably not as quick as Luck.  And he is really not the running threat Luck was, so RPO may not ever be as successful.

 

Maybe, idk. He can still run. And did you see his Houdini work in the pocket last game?

[BigQungus]

1 minute ago, BigQungus said:

 

Maybe, idk. He can still run. And did you see his Houdini work in the pocket last game?

 

Dang it, Superman already said that 

2 hours ago, B~Town said:

Teams are not scared of Jacoby going deep and sitting on the short stuff.  

 

I would if I were an opposing team. Brissett has a cannon. Not as accurate as Luck, but the arm strength is definitely as good

[stitches]

35 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Yeah, your post sort of reminds me of what I read/agreed with on football outsiders (at least in terms of what we saw yesterday):
 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/audibles/2019/audibles-line-week-2

This is exactly what I'm seeing with Brissett. He's too hesitant and slow with his decisions and not aggressive enough or lacks vision/anticipation to make aggressive throws. 

[BigQungus]

Everyone on this forum seems to be mistaken about Reich's offensive approach to each game. During the week, he decides what strategy we're gonna use for the beginning of the game. Sometimes we run it down their throats. Other times we try to establish a rhythm with short passes. Other times we like to get more vertical. Then depending on how the game goes, he'll make the appropriate adjustments.

 

We don't really have one "scheme". We have a versatile offense and what we do depends on who we're facing. So when you think Reich isn't doing quick rhythmic passes, it's probably because he decided that wasn't gonna work against the Titans, or because the offense couldn't really establish a rhythm early on and he changed the gameplan 

[Imgrandojji]

8 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

Everyone on this forum seems to be mistaken about Reich's offensive approach to each game. During the week, he decides what strategy we're gonna use for the beginning of the game. Sometimes we run it down their throats. Other times we try to establish a rhythm with short passes. Other times we like to get more vertical. Then depending on how the game goes, he'll make the appropriate adjustments.

 

We don't really have one "scheme". We have a versatile offense and what we do depends on who we're facing. So when you think Reich isn't doing quick rhythmic passes, it's probably because he decided that wasn't gonna work against the Titans, or because the offense couldn't really establish a rhythm early on and he changed the gameplan 

Good coaches work hard and establish a strong gameplan

 

Great coaches never have just one.

[Nickster]

49 minutes ago, egg said:

 

I just re-watched it 10 times. I don't see that.

 

Neither db was in position to intercept that ball. No way.

 

Cain pulls up because the ball was "underthrown". He about gets his head ripped off because the db knew Cain was going to catch it.

 

"Poorly underthrown" balls are not catchable.

 

49 minutes ago, egg said:

 

I just re-watched it 10 times. I don't see that.

 

Neither db was in position to intercept that ball. No way.

 

Cain pulls up because the ball was "underthrown". He about gets his head ripped off because the db knew Cain was going to catch it.

 

"Poorly underthrown" balls are not catchable.

Well you might want to watch it an 11th time.  

 

What it looks like to me is that Cain is 1 1/2 to 2 yds clear of the defender and then almost has to completely stop at the 10 and the DB grabs his head as running past the now almost stationary WR. Ball lands at the 7.  Probably needed to be on the goal line.

 

Woefully underthrown ball.  I can't believe you don't see it.  Wierd.

[Nickster]

37 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is exactly what I'm seeing with Brissett. He's too hesitant and slow with his decisions and not aggressive enough or lacks vision/anticipation to make aggressive throws. 

"Jacoby Brissett is capable of making competent plays, but takes too long to do almost everything. Even with the much-improved offensive line, he needs things to go well and his first read to be open to succeed. While reasonably accurate, he lacks elite placement. The result is that there probably were, like the Chargers game, deep shots that he didn't attempt that a more aggressive quarterback would have (as was the case in 2017)."

 

Slow, First read only, and could go downfield more often.  Exactly what I've been saying.

 

 

[Fisticuffs111]

55 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 Reich is also the one not putting him out there so go figure. He also said while he could take 50 snaps, he doubted he would. 

 

He’s a rookie who missed a lot of camp with a hammy, I’m happy easing him in. 

Yeah, and I like how he's doing it too. Letting him return kickoffs and using him in the red zone a little bit, good way to build his confidence.

[colts8718]

Coby plays good against Zone defense not so good when its man on man 

[Creekside]

16 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Well you might want to watch it an 11th time.  

 

What it looks like to me is that Cain is 1 1/2 to 2 yds clear of the defender and then almost has to completely stop at the 10 and the DB grabs his head as running past the now almost stationary WR. Ball lands at the 7.  Probably needed to be on the goal line.

 

Woefully underthrown ball.  I can't believe you don't see it.  Wierd.

 

I watched it an 11th time. 

 

Do you seriously think Cain is not in position to catch it? 

 

The ball passes two feet right in front  of Cain as the db is trying to rip his head off. 

 

Maybe you should start watching the games in braille?

[Nickster]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

 

I watched it an 11th time. 

 

Do you seriously think Cain is not in position to catch it? 

 

The ball passes two feet right in front  of Cain as the db is trying to rip his head off. 

 

Maybe you should start watching the games in braille?

Well yes if they were throwing around in the back yard dude.  The ball was underthrown by a minimum of 5 yds.

 

Uhh nice burn egg.

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

I was asking for some deep shots after week 1, now after week 2, Im not so sure. Seemed our wrs were having a hard time getting seperation, but the couple shots we did take, throws didnt look that great. Reich talks about using levels, JB having a tough time right now in game at going to the right one. Can't help but think that our wrs should be doing more for him but they are young.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

A tad??

 

He was double-clutching for no reason. That led to the fumble, it led to Hines getting blown up, etc. He made some really good throws yesterday, but some of his decisions were really bad, and his feet were slow all day (as a passer; he was Houdini when escaping the pocket). I thought Brissett was really bad yesterday...

 

Fair, but to assume that what we saw yesterday is as good as it gets with Brissett is shortsighted IMO. Luck had his share of shaky games in this same scheme last year, so it's only fair to assume that Brissett will have some growing pains as well. At this point, he's probably the least of my worries, can't say that about our kicker though. Yikes.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Fair, but to assume that what we saw yesterday is as good as it gets with Brissett is shortsighted IMO. Luck had his share of shaky games in this same scheme last year, so it's only fair to assume that Brissett will have some growing pains as well. At this point, he's probably the least of my worries, can't say that about our kicker though. Yikes.

 

I'm so disinterested in comparing Brissett to Luck, I'm very over that whole angle. 

 

I'm just giving my sincere thoughts about Brissett as a QB. And of course, saying I think he was bad yesterday doesn't mean that I think yesterday is representative of his ceiling.

 

And I think the kicker situation is simple. At some point, either AV is going to prove he can still play, or he's going to be replaced. The QB situation is a lot more opaque. Determining whether our QB is good enough to go to the SB isn't just about raw numbers.

[braveheartcolt]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I'm so disinterested in comparing Brissett to Luck, I'm very over that whole angle. 

 

I'm just giving my sincere thoughts about Brissett as a QB. And of course, saying I think he was bad yesterday doesn't mean that I think yesterday is representative of his ceiling.

 

And I think the kicker situation is simple. At some point, either AV is going to prove he can still play, or he's going to be replaced. The QB situation is a lot more opaque. Determining whether our QB is good enough to go to the SB isn't just about raw numbers.

You said 'really bad'. When I think 'really bad', I think Curtis Painter. JB looked like a HOFer compared to ol' Curty boy. I thought he played ok, against a good defence, in tough conditions (on the road, heat etc) and with a pretty raw WR Corp. I think you are being a tad harsh on this occasion, almost deliberately overlooking all the good plays he produced. I am equally suspicious of his overall quality, but it is rather early in the season to judge.

[DerekDiggler]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

A tad??

 

He was double-clutching for no reason. That led to the fumble, it led to Hines getting blown up, etc. He made some really good throws yesterday, but some of his decisions were really bad, and his feet were slow all day (as a passer; he was Houdini when escaping the pocket). I thought Brissett was really bad yesterday...

Perhaps you didn’t know this but you’re not allowed to say Brissett was bad on here.    You’ll get eaten alive 

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

Perhaps you didn’t know this but you’re not allowed to say Brissett was bad on here.    You’ll get eaten alive 

Perhaps you didn't know this.   If you don't think Chad Kelly is the second coming of Joe Montana you will get eaten alive

[DerekDiggler]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Perhaps you didn't know this.   If you don't think Chad Kelly is the second coming of Joe Montana you will get eaten alive

But but but.    JB is the next Brady 

[Imgrandojji]

5 hours ago, BigQungus said:

 

Maybe, idk. He can still run. And did you see his Houdini work in the pocket last game?

That was awesome to see, but not something we can count on consistently.  He's slippery, but mostly should be doing his work inside the pocket.

 

Also he has a bad habit of hesitating before he takes off and tries to run, and that means that gaps that were open for him if he struck decisively close before he can get through them.  It's something he's going to have to work on, and goes back to the whole question of getting snaps and working on the areas where he isn't proficient right now.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, DerekDiggler said:

But but but.    JB is the next Brady 

But but, Chad Kelly was great in the preseason and hasn't broke into anyone's home in all most a year

[DEColtsLover36]

6 minutes ago, DerekDiggler said:

Perhaps you didn’t know this but you’re not allowed to say Brissett was bad on here.    You’ll get eaten alive 

 

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Perhaps you didn't know this.   If you don't think Chad Kelly is the second coming of Joe Montana you will get eaten alive

 

Both of these posts are true... and hilarious 

[Imgrandojji]

I guess I'm a cannibal who eats everyone alive.  Who knew?

[a06cc]

 It’s separation and how teams are blitzing us often. The passes aren’t there. The plan all along has been with the running game. If we can continue to have success there,  then the big plays will be there. Have patience please. Haven’t anyone of you listened from day 1? The run will open up the pass...

[hoosierhawk]

6 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Maybe the quick passing is there, and he's just not throwing it fast enough? 

 

He's holding the ball waaaay longer than he should. 

 

I agree with what was said earlier. I would rather see Hines lines up in the WR spot instead of RB. He is a much better pass catcher than he is running back. 

I agree that he is not reading defenses quick enough and not hitting them quickly as the are coming out of their breaks. I don't think that is scheme but him not reading quick enough and if you miss them quickly then you see him holding the ball waiting for someone to break open.

Hope this can be taught. 

[Creekside]

13 minutes ago, a06cc said:

  the big plays will be there. Have patience please. 

 

I agree.    Patience.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

I wasn't a genius on the 1st day of kindergarden.

[hoosierhawk]

1 minute ago, egg said:

 

I agree.    Patience.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

I wasn't a genius on the 1st day of kindergarten.

But how long do we have to wait for your 'genius'.

[buccolts]

I didn't read this whole thread yet, so excuse me if it's been brought up already, but one effect of the long ball is to soften the safeties, and open up the run, ain't it?

[Dogg63]

19 minutes ago, buccolts said:

I didn't read this whole thread yet, so excuse me if it's been brought up already, but one effect of the long ball is to soften the safeties, and open up the run, ain't it?

I didn't read your whole post, but what discounts?

[buccolts]

16 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

I didn't read your whole post, but what discounts?

Senior discounts.......

[Imgrandojji]

1 hour ago, a06cc said:

 It’s separation and how teams are blitzing us often. The passes aren’t there. The plan all along has been with the running game. If we can continue to have success there,  then the big plays will be there. Have patience please. Haven’t anyone of you listened from day 1? The run will open up the pass...

And it has.  In the red zone in both of the last 2 games the Chargers and Titans optimized against the run, and each time they did, Brissett punished them.

 

Let Reich do what Reich does between the 20s.  He'll run, run, run, pound the football, work gaps in the trenches until they're in scoring position and use Brissett like a stiletto when they bunch against the run.   That's been the pattern so far, and it's a pattern that will lead to points and a lot of time of possession, but not a ton of passing yards.  Because passing isn't how Reich likes to get into scoring position

[Imgrandojji]

1 hour ago, buccolts said:

I didn't read this whole thread yet, so excuse me if it's been brought up already, but one effect of the long ball is to soften the safeties, and open up the run, ain't it?

Yeah, and if teams start successfully restricting the run game by going cover zero you'll see Brisset open it up over the top because that's virtually an invitation to a guy with a strong arm.  So far opposing D are more concerned about stopping the pass.  They haven't got the memo about our change of identity yet

[Nickster]

11 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

But how long do we have to wait for your 'genius'.

If you are a genius then you would have been one  in Kindergarten too.  You would increase your knowledge base but your IQ would be established.

 

that is what I think of Brissett.  He’s a touch slow to be very good in the NFL, and I don’t see that changing.  Hope I’m wrong.