Ryan is the worst GM ever

[DougDew]

37 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Aside from the snowboarding injury that caused the labrum, this is 100% right. We all said it way back then. Grigson killed Luck. Apart from the shoulder there was a concussion, lacerated kidney, partially torn abdomen, torn cartilage in his ribs. And who knows what other small Knicks and bruises. That’s on the GM. I’d put some on the coaches and coordinators he had over the years that kept him in the air raid type systems where he had to hold the ball longer despite not having the protection to do so. Reich was the only person who got the ball out of his hands quick.

 

This is reminds me of Chad Pennington and David Carr. The 2012-2016 Colts will go down as one of the most poorly ran and coaches football teams in recent memory that was responsible for the early retirement of a top 5 QB who was only just hitting his prime. Deep down Irsay is sick. The worst part is you could have done without Grigson. Look at the roster now and the only player he drafted that another GM might’ve missed On was Hilton.

I don't think that's accurate.  Luck said in a 2018 interview that he got multiple doctors opinions that the snowboarding injury only exacerbated a sprained AC joint that he got in 2015 (that TEN game we think).  He maintains that the accident did not cause the Labrum injury.  And the Labrum injury was the source of the surgery, not a sprained AC joint.

 

So Luck went to some length to show the team that his snowboarding accident did not cause the need to miss games, which supports the idea that he should still get paid.

 

We do not know the source of the "frayed" Labrum, as it was described.  Fraying to me sounds like it happens over time when he continued to play and throw with a sprained AC joint in 2015 (until MH started a few games) and prepared for the 2016 season after hurting the joint further with the snowboarding accident in that offseason.

[Superman]

On 8/24/2019 at 11:28 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Welcome.....    you've been greatly missed all night.    I kept checking periodically.    

 

When you get a free hour or more....   read the marathon thread....    you'll read things you'd never thought you'd read here.....     lots of OMG posts....    even some from some very, very smart posters.     They simply lost their......   stuff.   

 

It's eye popping, jaw dropping stuff....   nearly 1,000 posts of crazy talk.   

 

And for what it's worth.....   I barely posted at all.    Wasn't hard to see a Tsumani wave coming.    I couldn't hold it back for second.    I made a few comments,   gave a few reactions, and got the Heck out of Dodge!  

 

A long, sad night for everyone......      See you when the dawn comes....       

 

I'll never read that thread. I didn't expect to post or read here at all for a few days, to be honest. I was very upset Saturday night. 

 

On 8/25/2019 at 2:16 AM, J@son said:

 

Well they did go overboard because many said he didn't even try, but as @John Waylon said he did try, he was just really bad at his job. 

 

I mean, I know not everything said about him was true -- he refused to address the OL, the Richardson trade was the worst trade in NFL history, he was having an affair with one of Irsay's daughters -- lots of nonsense in there.

 

But there was an underlying sentiment that I always pushed back on -- that he was going to get Luck killed, that he was ruining Luck, etc. I always found it be to be overly sensational. And yet, here we are. The fact is, if Ryan Grigson had been better at his job, Luck might not have gotten hurt in 2015 the way he did, and things might have turned out differently.

 

Woulda, shoulda, coulda... but Grigson failed to build an acceptable offensive line, and contributed to this decision. People who criticized him then turned out to be right.

 

On 8/25/2019 at 8:26 AM, Rackeen305 said:

Remember that Zeke post? I said why hate on Zeke for wanting more money and folks like yourself said you would still pay Luck money in the future over paying Zeke. Who's correct now? Remember I said Im not here for super-likes but for FACTS. people replied, "Well Superman is top poster of Facts" com on man. I was right about my statement. Hate it or love it.

 

What are you talking about?

 

That discussion wasn't about Luck. It was about a top tier, franchise level QB, vs a great RB. And I stand by what I said in that thread. I would still not trade significant draft capital and guaranteed significant money to a RB, no matter how good he is.

 

As a matter of fact, that Luck has retired early due to injury just reinforces my thinking. NFL careers are usually short. The likelihood of a RB being unable to perform at a high level for several years in a row is much higher than that of a QB. 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

Its not just Ryan Grigson, guys!!! Hiring guys like Pep and Chud that did not emphasize the short passing game/motions the way Reich and Sirianni do now led to schematic failures resulting in more hits too. There is plenty of blame to go around, including some on Luck and Pagano. 

 

Bottom line, we were handed a Ferrari and chose cheaper insurance. However, the Ferrari was reckless at times too. 

 

 

This is true, but Grigson had a job to do, and failed at it.

[Fluke_33]

On 8/25/2019 at 2:22 AM, Superman said:

What stage of grief is this?

convalescence

[Superman]

 

[BigQungus]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2018/09/04/pat-mcafee-barstool-sports-colts-ryan-grigson/1192911002/

[BigQungus]

On 8/25/2019 at 2:18 AM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Hard to see how Irsay could've canned anyone before the 2015 season.    The 2014 team went to the AFC Championship game.     Not often you advance that far in year 3 of your building and the owner fires the HC and GM.

 

I would think perhaps John Fox getting canned by Elway might be one of the few exceptions.

 

 

You can't say "well, the team is doing good, so we can't make any big changes." Just cause the team is doing good, doesn't mean every part of the team is doing good. After 2015 I was calling for Grigson's head. He completely, just utterly whiffed 2 offseasons in a row. Look at his draft picks. Look at his free agency signings. Just awful. I think 2013 was the Bjoern Werner draft, and the midseason Trent Richardson trade. Already 2 giant gaffes. Not an automatic call for the head, but still a consideration. Then you have the failed 2015 spending spree. I think we definitely should've fired him right after that season.

[Superman]

Just now, BigQungus said:

 

You can't say "well, the team is doing good, so we can't make any big changes." Just cause the team is doing good, doesn't mean every part of the team is doing good. After 2015 I was calling for Grigson's head. He completely, just utterly whiffed 2 offseasons in a row. Look at his draft picks. Look at his free agency signings. Just awful. I think 2013 was the Bjoern Werner draft, and the midseason Trent Richardson trade. Already 2 giant gaffes. Not an automatic call for the head, but still a consideration. Then you have the failed 2015 spending spree. I think we definitely should've fired him right after that season.

 

We were talking about before the 2015 season, not after.

 

During and after 2015, lots of people wanted Grigson and Pagano gone. But before 2015, the Colts were on an upward trajectory, and it wasn't realistic to expect them to make big changes at that point. 

[BigQungus]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

We were talking about before the 2015 season, not after.

 

During and after 2015, lots of people wanted Grigson and Pagano gone. But before 2015, the Colts were on an upward trajectory, and it wasn't realistic to expect them to make big changes at that point. 

 

Yeah I know, I was just saying. There was a case to be made that Grigson should've been fired before the 2015 season, but I wasn't on that train then

[chad72]

Big Ben has endured just as much, IMO, and persevered. Big Ben had more years of Arians to thank for all the hits he endured, definitely a tough dude. It is short sighted to think that this stretch of injuries and rehab has happened only to Luck. 

 

The key to all of this is how much football dropped a few notches in importance over other things for Luck the past couple of years. That can be the only explanation for him to walk away from a game he loved and enjoyed. He felt he needed a break, just hoping it will have him recharged and itching for more football in 2 years. 

[Myles]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

That discussion wasn't about Luck. It was about a top tier, franchise level QB, vs a great RB. And I stand by what I said in that thread. I would still not trade significant draft capital and guaranteed significant money to a RB, no matter how good he is.

 

 

Currently, having Zeke would be a great benefit for Brissett and the Colts.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I don't think that's accurate.  Luck said in a 2018 interview that he got multiple doctors opinions that the snowboarding injury only exacerbated a sprained AC joint that he got in 2015 (that TEN game we think).  He maintains that the accident did not cause the Labrum injury.  And the Labrum injury was the source of the surgery, not a sprained AC joint.

 

So Luck went to some length to show the team that his snowboarding accident did not cause the need to miss games, which supports the idea that he should still get paid.

 

We do not know the source of the "frayed" Labrum, as it was described.  Fraying to me sounds like it happens over time when he continued to play and throw with a sprained AC joint in 2015 (until MH started a few games) and prepared for the 2016 season after hurting the joint further with the snowboarding accident in that offseason.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Was always under the impression that the snowboarding accident is what caused the tear. That makes Grigson look even worse. And the fact that no one forced him to sit and rehab it before it got worse is troubling.

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, chad72 said:

It is short sighted to think that this stretch of injuries and rehab has happened only to Luck. 

 

Didn't say that. And I don't necessarily think that anyone should/could have foreseen that this would happen.

 

But it's undeniable that Luck's injuries are partly attributable to Grigson's failure to build an OL, and Luck himself said that his injuries are the primary reason he's retiring. It's a pretty straight line from one thing to the other. The fact that other QBs have had to endure the same or worse isn't really at issue.

 

Just now, Myles said:

Currently, having Zeke would be a great benefit for Brissett and the Colts.

 

Having Zeke would have been a great benefit for the Colts with Luck. The question was about the cost, not the impact on the field.

[Superman]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Was always under the impression that the snowboarding accident is what caused the tear. That makes Grigson look even worse. And the fact that no one forced him to sit and rehab it before it got worse is troubling.

 

He sat two games in 2015. They decided against surgery after that season, and he played through pain in 2016; that was Luck's decision, not anyone else's. 

 

I assume everyone involved would make different decisions with the benefit of hindsight, specifically as it relates to the handling of Luck's shoulder.

[DougDew]

15 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Was always under the impression that the snowboarding accident is what caused the tear. That makes Grigson look even worse. And the fact that no one forced him to sit and rehab it before it got worse is troubling.

I think by all accounts it was Luck who chose to play through the pain and the labrum fray in the 2016 season.  He implied that it was mainly his choice in the retirement presser when he said that he told himself that he would never do that again.

 

If you're saying that RG or CP forced him to play on it when Luck did not want to, that is a stretch.  And if that was the case, Irsay should/would have stepped in.  I think there was some talk that Luck could not damage the shoulder anymore by playing on it, so they let him, knowing he would get surgery at some point.

 

So why would Luck choose to play?  Seeing that he went to some lengths to show that his accident wouldn't cause missed PT, he may have been sensitive to that notion and chose to prove that he could play with a damaged shoulder.  Sort of an obligation he put on himself. Just speculating as to what was going through his head at the time and why he tends to regret it now.

 

I think the 2016 season was his contract year.....so there's that.

 

[Valpo2004]

On 8/25/2019 at 11:11 AM, DougDew said:

Is the ankle the result of the previous GM, or is Luck's personality? 

 

 

"always knew Luck was different "

 

Probably means different from your normal ego-driven diva type of personality common in the NFL. IOW, Luck's a normal person but has a different personality for a football player.

 

And my comments from another thread:

 

* * * *

 

"Another post in another thread suggested that Luck mentally checked out during the KC game.  I never wanted to say that, but I remember thinking the exact same thing at the time.  He looked less engaged than usual during that game.  Almost a sense of hopelessness.

 

I don't think Luck was ever really up to being the focus of the team.  I think he reluctantly did it because it was his job, and did it well enough, but I think that role is inconsistent with his natural personality.  In contrast to someone Like PM, who relishes that role.

 

And now we have KC and Mahomes to fight through to get to the SB.  Whenever anybody plays KC, its going to turn into a shoot out.  How much MORE will the success of the team fall onto the opponents' QB's shoulders.  Some people simply have their breaking point as to how much responsibility they can....or want...to take on.

 

Luck ran a power run play action passing game college in college.  Jim Harbaugh was the leader and face of that team, not Luck.  In the NFL, the QB has that role, not the coach.

 

I think Luck enjoys scrambling for first downs and TDs.  Likes blasting the DB after an interception.  He likes football, but Luck would probably be more comfortable playing QB in the 1970's NFL where the success of the team, season, coaching staff, fan base, and stadium financing does not depend upon what the QB does with the ball every snap. 

 

Now he sees Mahomes and what it will take to win it all, and sees the part of the job he never liked that much being even more of the focus of his job in the future."

 

* * * * * *

 

And when a GM says that an ankle injury is the result of the "cumulative" effect, that's not that far away from saying its going to be a chronic arthritic condition as long as there is more wear on it.

 

And like Tiger Woods knee injuries, it could simply be the result of over torquing the joint over the years.

 

After you make your first $25million, exactly how much to you need the next $100 million, and what are you willing to do to earn it?

 

Are you going to let your self be in a position where dopey fans criticize you for snowboarding....or how you raise your kid... how you live your life on your personal time?

 

Do you want to be scrutinized every moment of your life for the next 5 years after you've already made $25 million?

 

And is winning a made-up championship for a made-up game really much of a motivator for a normal person with a normal sized ego?

 

 

 

I think it's a bit of both.  I also got the feeling that Luck didn't need football and with all the CTE stuff an early retirement was something I feared.  I didn't think it would happen at this point but I also kind of got the feeling he wouldn't play til he's 40 either.  I was thinking it would happen at like 35 (which for QB is still prime playing years.)

 

Grigson's failure to protect Luck though still caused the injury issues which made Luck say to himself "I'm not doing this again."  

 

We didn't know it but after that shoulder injury the writing was kind of on the wall.  Because it's then when Luck said he's not doing this again.  So any lingering injury that would have required some rehab time would have likely made Luck hang it up.

 

I suppose we where fortunate to be able to see him come back and play one last good season.  

 

Also the kid thing is a big one.  Having kids is one thing that made me start thinking about the future a lot more than I did before.  Luck probably started asking himself how his kid(s) where going to remember him.  And he didn't want to be the dad that's constantly crippled and in pain and possibly has trouble remembering their names.  

 

This is sort of the reason why I don't see Luck coming back as much as I would like to see that.  His reasons for retiring are so long term to his life and he's doing it at a time of his life when people really start thinking about the future.  Football is fun today but you know what else is fun, being able to get up and run and play with your kids.   You are risking #2 by doing #1.

[DougDew]

Just now, Valpo2004 said:

 

I think it's a bit of both.  I also got the feeling that Luck didn't need football and with all the CTE stuff an early retirement was something I feared.  I didn't think it would happen at this point but I also kind of got the feeling he wouldn't play til he's 40 either.  I was thinking it would happen at like 35 (which for QB is still prime playing years.)

 

Grigson's failure to protect Luck though still caused the injury issues which made Luck say to himself "I'm not doing this again."  

 

We didn't know it but after that shoulder injury the writing was kind of on the wall.  Because it's then when Luck said he's not doing this again.  So any lingering injury that would have required some rehab time would have likely made Luck hang it up.

 

I suppose we where fortunate to be able to see him come back and play one last good season.  

If people want to blame RG for not getting an oline, not to mention a HC and an OC where WRs get open and run shorter patterns, which caused the hit on Luck that sprained his AC joint, fine.

 

The injury wasn't cumulative, as far as we know, so if you want to blame RG for Luck for taking that one hit, okay by me. 

 

If you also want to blame him for Luck scrambling away from the rush, apparently unable to hit a check down, which caused the hit that caused the lacerated kidney, okay by me too.

 

But, IMO, a lot more goes into Luck deciding to retire now than two hits he took nearly 3 to 4 years ago.

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So why would Luck choose to play?  Seeing that he went to some lengths to show that his accident wouldn't cause missed PT, he may have been sensitive to that notion and chose to prove that he could play with a damaged shoulder.  Sort of an obligation he put on himself. Just speculating as to what was going through his head at the time and why he tends to regret it now.

 

 

How about because that's what football players do? That's the culture, right or wrong. If you can bear it, you suck it up and play.

 

What did Frank Gore say about Andrew Luck? "He's a football player." 

 

Quote

I think the 2016 season was his contract year.....so there's that.

 

He re-signed before the season started.

[Superman]

Just now, DougDew said:

If you also want to blame him for Luck scrambling away from the rush, apparently unable to hit a check down, which caused the hit that caused the lacerated kidney, okay by me too.

 

Check downs weren't a featured function of the offense. Luck was always good at improvising and standing in the pocket, and he played in a system that encouraged him to do so.

 

And the hit that caused the lacerated kidney wasn't a result of him being unable to hit a check down. It was him making a play on third down, which is something he excelled at from Day 1.

 

Quote

But, IMO, a lot more goes into Luck deciding to retire now than two hits he took nearly 3 to 4 years ago.

 

We're talking about three to four HUNDRED hits he took 3 to 4 years ago. Not two hits. Literally hundreds of hits. Primarily because of playing behind a terrible OL.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Check downs weren't a featured function of the offense. Luck was always good at improvising and standing in the pocket, and he played in a system that encouraged him to do so.

 

And the hit that caused the lacerated kidney wasn't a result of him being unable to hit a check down. It was him making a play on third down, which is something he excelled at from Day 1.

 

 

We're talking about three to four HUNDRED hits he took 3 to 4 years ago. Not two hits. Literally hundreds of hits. Primarily because of playing behind a terrible OL.

 

He said it was the constant cycle of injury and rehab. 

 

IIRC, he previously mentioned that he rehabbed the shoulder surgery too aggressively causing a set back, thereby extending that pain and rehab cycle by his own choices.

 

As well as the previous pain being exacerbated by his choice to snowboard.

 

He's not blaming anybody for this cycle, so why are others?

[Rackeen305]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I'll never read that thread. I didn't expect to post or read here at all for a few days, to be honest. I was very upset Saturday night. 

 

 

I mean, I know not everything said about him was true -- he refused to address the OL, the Richardson trade was the worst trade in NFL history, he was having an affair with one of Irsay's daughters -- lots of nonsense in there.

 

But there was an underlying sentiment that I always pushed back on -- that he was going to get Luck killed, that he was ruining Luck, etc. I always found it be to be overly sensational. And yet, here we are. The fact is, if Ryan Grigson had been better at his job, Luck might not have gotten hurt in 2015 the way he did, and things might have turned out differently.

 

Woulda, shoulda, coulda... but Grigson failed to build an acceptable offensive line, and contributed to this decision. People who criticized him then turned out to be right.

 

 

What are you talking about?

 

That discussion wasn't about Luck. It was about a top tier, franchise level QB, vs a great RB. And I stand by what I said in that thread. I would still not trade significant draft capital and guaranteed significant money to a RB, no matter how good he is.

 

As a matter of fact, that Luck has retired early due to injury just reinforces my thinking. NFL careers are usually short. The likelihood of a RB being unable to perform at a high level for several years in a row is much higher than that of a QB. 

 

Except Players Ala Zeke and AB and even L Bell has played in more games than AL. Remember AL missed an entire year and 2/3 of another year so..

[Rackeen305]

3 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I think anyone using this situation with Luck to pat themselves on the back about previous posts and demanding other forum members eat crow is about as self-centered as can be.

 

You and @threeflight are two peas in the same rotten pod.

 

Ya'll are like flies getting fat on a steaming pile of _____ 

 

Oh Wow. Lets just keep it to football would ya! even if you disagree, leave it on the field, not the barn. lol. But here, let me help us all out. 

 

Chris Ballard is a capable GM that struck it "Lucky" when he added the extra 2nd round draft pick, and didnt trade Brissett. Plus, the most cap $ in the league. So there's two, three reasons to be excited. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

He said it was the constant cycle of injury and rehab. 

 

IIRC, he previously mentioned that he rehabbed the shoulder surgery too aggressively causing a set back, thereby extending that pain and rehab cycle by his own choices.

 

As well as the previous pain being exacerbated by his choice to snowboard.

 

He's not blaming anybody for this cycle, so why are others?

 

Because Grigson is to blame. At least partly.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

 

Except Players Ala Zeke and AB and even L Bell has played in more games than AL. Remember AL missed an entire year and 2/3 of another year so..

 

Luck played in more games (86) than Zeke (40) and Bell (62), so I'm not sure what you're talking about. 

 

And since I'm talking about likelihoods, let's acknowledge the FACT that even good RBs only give you 5-6 seasons of productive football, while good QBs give you a decade, at least.

 

So again, I'd rather pay a franchise level QB than a top tier RB, and that's an easy decision.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

Chris Ballard is a capable GM that struck it "Lucky" when he added the extra 2nd round draft pick, and didnt trade Brissett.

 

It's not "luck" that the Colts didn't trade Brissett. They made a conscientious decision to keep him.

[Rackeen305]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Luck played in more games (86) than Zeke (40) and Bell (62), so I'm not sure what you're talking about. 

 

And since I'm talking about likelihoods, let's acknowledge the FACT that even good RBs only give you 5-6 seasons of productive football, while good QBs give you a decade, at least.

 

So again, I'd rather pay a franchise level QB than a top tier RB, and that's an easy decision.

NP broski, Lets just hope we get the best QB in this upcoming draft. 

[DougDew]

26 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Because Grigson is to blame. At least partly.

I think RG made a bunch of bad decisions over the years, including prioritizing Luck's protection.

 

When someone says they are retiring due to mental exhaustion, to paraphrase, I'm not sure I would use the word blame to describe it, and I think that's what this thread is attempting to do. 

 

Not to mention Luck has talked about a calf injury and not his shoulder.  I think some still want to blame his shoulder injury for his mindset, when how he rehabbed it under Ballard's watch has as much to do with the cycle as anything.

[Coltscrazy]

Has anyone brought up Derek Carr?  We basically Derek Carr'd Andrew.  The Texans were famous for getting him killed.  I'm surprised his name hasn't come up.

[Superman]

Just now, Coltscrazy said:

Has anyone brought up Derek Carr?  We basically Derek Carr'd Andrew.  The Texans were famous for getting him killed.  I'm surprised his name hasn't come up.

 

You're thinking of David Carr. I haven't seen his name, either.

 

Big difference is that Andrew Luck was actually good.

[Four2itus]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Didn't say that. And I don't necessarily think that anyone should/could have foreseen that this would happen.

 

But it's undeniable that Luck's injuries are partly attributable to Grigson's failure to build an OL, and Luck himself said that his injuries are the primary reason he's retiring. It's a pretty straight line from one thing to the other. The fact that other QBs have had to endure the same or worse isn't really at issue.

 

 

Having Zeke would have been a great benefit for the Colts with Luck. The question was about the cost, not the impact on the field.

Spot on. Grigson was part of Luck's injury experience, and so was scheme and Luck's own style of play.

 

As far as Grigson being the worst GM ever, not even close...

[Superman]

32 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

As far as Grigson being the worst GM ever, not even close...

 

He's in the discussion. But yeah, the thread title is hyperbolic.

[CoachLite]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

He's in the discussion. But yeah, the thread title is hyperbolic.

Hey! Football is a team sport! The team of Chuck Pagano and Ryan Grigson is the worst ever. Football's version of Dumb and Dumber - a perfect storm of incompetence.

[CoachLite]

On 8/24/2019 at 11:23 PM, GoColts8818 said:

Still Matt Millen IMO but to your larger point if there someone Colts fans want to be mad at tonight Grigson is at the top of the list to me.

Poor Matt Millen. He's the poster boy for the Peter Principle.

 

[OffensivelyPC]

Ha, I don't know if he's the worst GM ever.  By my initial reaction after "wth" was that Grigson and Pagano literally broke Andrew Luck.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I saw a quote last night from chuck Pagono  after Luck had the tar knocked out of him after a game. He said luck should be used to it because it happened all season. How does a coach  let that go on. If you want to listen to a good podcast go listen to the latest for the COLTURE podcast. He goes over all the guilty parties in the luck saga.

[Imgrandojji]

On 8/26/2019 at 1:10 PM, DougDew said:

I think by all accounts it was Luck who chose to play through the pain and the labrum fray in the 2016 season.  He implied that it was mainly his choice in the retirement presser when he said that he told himself that he would never do that again.

 

If you're saying that RG or CP forced him to play on it when Luck did not want to, that is a stretch.  And if that was the case, Irsay should/would have stepped in.  I think there was some talk that Luck could not damage the shoulder anymore by playing on it, so they let him, knowing he would get surgery at some point.

 

So why would Luck choose to play?  Seeing that he went to some lengths to show that his accident wouldn't cause missed PT, he may have been sensitive to that notion and chose to prove that he could play with a damaged shoulder.  Sort of an obligation he put on himself. Just speculating as to what was going through his head at the time and why he tends to regret it now.

 

I think the 2016 season was his contract year.....so there's that.

 

I doubt Grig or Pagano should have had to "force" Andrew Luck to play under any circumstances.  Keeping him off the field would have been the decision that required an executive decision.

 

The social pressure on star level players, especially QB, to play through physical pain is enormous.  That's one of the things you see over and over again in the discussion of quality of life issues after a player's career, and why athletes completely destroy their health for a chance to keep playing.

 

In an environment like that it's up to the GM and HC to be the voice of reason when a gung ho quarterback wants to be out there leading his team and it would be dangerous for him to do so.  In this case, absolutely no decisive leadership whatsoever was shown, and a guy who could have been an all-timer was allowed to throw his career away in the pursuit of short term gain.

 

Honestly think this comes from the top.  Grigson was Irsay's creature, and Irsay has always been all too willing to pretend things are alright whether or not they actually are. 

 

Honestly, that's a contributing factor to the... unfortunate incident a few days ago.  The team made a conscious decision to spend weeks, maybe months, living in denial with Luck, whose flagging morale was obvious in retrospect if you know what to look for.  That was a decision they made, the leadership decided to show no leadership, and instead of trying to navigate around the issue, they choose to just sort of live in denial and hope it didn't happen, and then when the crash came figure things out from there. Completely, incomprehensibly irresponsible IMHO.

 

If we'd been told Luck was mulling retirement at the time he was, you know, actually mulling retirement, the team would have had time to manage the narrative rather than letting it leak out 15 minutes after the proverbial last second and drop it on the fanbase like a nuclear bomb. And looking at the statements coming out of the FO now about how excited they are to move forward with Brissett... we have clearly learned nothing.

[colt18]

Ryan Grigson was terrible GM, I agree with that. Irsay has been problematic as an owner as well. Not only did Grigson completely fail at protecting Luck, Irsay pretty much enabled his bad decisions. I don't really care to go back and list all the reasons why Grigson failed (it's a pretty long list) but I remember Irsay saying something along the lines of "it's all in Luck's head". That really made it obvious to me how little they regarded the health of Luck and that's why I'm not too mad at him walking away. The guy was getting the % hit out of him behind the Colts OLs before the Ballard era. The coaching was baffling, the surrounding cast a perpetual let down, Luck deserves a lot more credit for dragging his albatross of a team to the playoffs and a conference final. The 2017 season feels like a distant memory at this point but it's hard to gloss over such a strange, detail barren period of time. Luck was essentially a HOF talent that Irsay, Grigson and Pagano failed. While Pagano is a good guy, I don't think I'll be able to forgive any of them for a while. 

[DougDew]

18 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

I doubt Grig or Pagano should have had to "force" Andrew Luck to play under any circumstances.  Keeping him off the field would have been the decision that required an executive decision.

 

The social pressure on star level players, especially QB, to play through physical pain is enormous.  That's one of the things you see over and over again in the discussion of quality of life issues after a player's career, and why athletes completely destroy their health for a chance to keep playing.

 

In an environment like that it's up to the GM and HC to be the voice of reason when a gung ho quarterback wants to be out there leading his team and it would be dangerous for him to do so.  In this case, absolutely no decisive leadership whatsoever was shown, and a guy who could have been an all-timer was allowed to throw his career away in the pursuit of short term gain.

 

Honestly think this comes from the top.  Grigson was Irsay's creature, and Irsay has always been all too willing to pretend things are alright whether or not they actually are. 

 

Honestly, that's a contributing factor to the... unfortunate incident a few days ago.  The team made a conscious decision to spend weeks, maybe months, living in denial with Luck, whose flagging morale was obvious in retrospect if you know what to look for.  That was a decision they made, the leadership decided to show no leadership, and instead of trying to navigate around the issue, they choose to just sort of live in denial and hope it didn't happen, and then when the crash came figure things out from there. Completely, incomprehensibly irresponsible IMHO.

 

If we'd been told Luck was mulling retirement at the time he was, you know, actually mulling retirement, the team would have had time to manage the narrative rather than letting it leak out 15 minutes after the proverbial last second and drop it on the fanbase like a nuclear bomb. And looking at the statements coming out of the FO now about how excited they are to move forward with Brissett... we have clearly learned nothing.

I'm only going from memory, but I think at the time the official thinking was that Luck could do no more damage to the injury by continuing to play.

 

I think Luck played through the pain because it was his choice, and I theorize that some sort of self-imposed obligation contributed to his decision.  

 

In his presser, he now says that he would never do that again, so it shows some regret that he did that.

 

If he is saying that he would not do that again, meaning that he did not stand up to people in the organization that he felt "made" him play, that is a different thought, IMO.

[Crush22]

Yeah, we know.