if the Colts grab a player on waivers, what position will it be?

[crazycolt1]

9 hours ago, w87r said:

Don't even have to go waivers.

 

The perfect #2 to TY is Dez.

 

They complement each other so well. Almost perfect combo in my opinion.

 

Imagine how excited he would be catching the ball from Luck.

 

Big difference between Dak and Luck.

There is a reason Dez is not signed anywhere. Coaches and GMs realize he don't have the talent anymore.

He may get signed if a GM gets a real cheap deal like the veterans minimum but his days of getting paid are over.

[DougDew]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

For whatever it's worth,  Dez was interviewed after being cut and was asked about the money.

 

He said Dallas never even brought up the subject.     They didn't ask,  and he didn't turn them down.        Though he did say if they did ask he would've turned them down.

 

But he stressed,  he wasn't asked.

 

So it is actually about money, despite the public posturing.

[richard pallo]

7 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Smith will be opening day RT. He will have some growing pains, but will do well for the season considering. Can't wait to watch him surprise a lot of folks. 

I think it will be Haag if we don't acquire a new RT soon.

[1959Colts]

12 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think it will be Haag if we don't acquire a new RT soon.

Haeg gets the start in preseason game 4. His performance, and the performance of the other linemen in this game, should determine  the pecking order for week 1. 

https://fox59.com/2018/08/28/latest-colts-o-line-combo-includes-haeg-at-rt-smith-at-rg-stay-tuned/

[GoColtsWin]

RT should be priority 1 imo. Keeping Treebeard upright, and uninjured should be paramount to all other needs. He makes all the difference on Sunday!

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, GoColtsWin said:

RT should be priority 1 imo. Keeping Treebeard upright, and uninjured should be paramount to all other needs. He makes all the difference on Sunday!

Always was priority 1, IMO.  Not to go down that road, but picking McGlinchy always made more sense than picking Nelson, especially since Ballard said we could get "starting quality" Gs in the early second round.  Oh well, maybe we'll get a RT next year, provided we don't also have to spend a high draft pick replacing AC due to age.

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Always was priority 1, IMO.  Not to go down that road, but picking McGlinchy always made more sense than picking Nelson, especially since Ballard said we could get "starting quality" Gs in the early second round.  Oh well, maybe we'll get a RT next year, provided we don't also have to spend a high draft pick replacing AC due to age.

yeah but we needed two starting guards. had to pick our poison there.

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, csmopar said:

yeah but we needed two starting guards. had to pick our poison there.

Slauson was signed and Smith was drafted (and any G would have been drafted since it was targeted).  We'd be talking about who between Haeg and Good and Clark would be BACKING UP Slauson and Smith at Gs instead of which one is starting at RT.

 

Drafting McGlinchey to eventually take over at LT would avoid us having to use a 1st round pick on an LT in the next 2 years.  You can't get starting LTs in any round lower than the 1st, but you can get starting Gs in the second and 3rd.  Moving AC to RT would also have extended his career, keeping both T spots nailed down for about 4 to 5 more years while we pick Gs in rounds 2 and 3.

[chad72]

Has any team gone with only 51 and signed 2 off waivers in recent memory to fill its 53? Is that an admission of some sorts from the GM that the team he was partially/fully responsible to put together is not good enough?

 

Just wondering what your thoughts are on those.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Has any team gone with only 51 and signed 2 off waivers in recent memory to fill its 53? Is that an admission of some sorts from the GM that the team he was partially/fully responsible to put together is not good enough?

 

Just wondering what your thoughts are on those.

Anybody that's available to be signed will probably rank no higher than about 45th on our roster, IOW, back up quality.  I assume our starting RT or #2 WR needs to be ranked higher than that.

[Barry Sears]

I agree with the need for RT, but also know it will be difficult to find someone to fill that spot, since any decent RT won't likely get cut.

 

I also know that our new offensive scheme of quick hitters and having Luck get passes off faster will help, so whoever is at RT will just need to provide some protection, but not as much as in the past when our QB's had to wait for longer routes to develop.

 

RT and LT are such hard positions when the defensive ends are allowed to line up so far outside the end of the offensive line.  They have such an advantage with their rush angle that large offensive tackles just can't get out fast enough to set up.  

 

I think the NFL could protect QBs more if they limit the starting position of DEs to cut down on that starting angle.  Would give OTs a better chance to pass block and help cut down on sacks and QB injuries.

 

I realize defenses feel like they are already at a huge disadvantage with rule changes, but player safety has obviously become a priority.

[ColtsBlueFL]

11 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Dez Bryant cant get open anymore. That's why Dallas let him go

 

I feel Dez won’t get an offer until right after the first game is played.  And any offer he gets then he may not take. He has already rejected a multi year from the Ravens, and a 1 year deal (5 million is reported) from the Browns.  No team is going to give him a fully guaranteed, high salary 1 year deal.  It will likely come as non guaranteed, low signing bonus, heavily incentivized 1 year prove it deal, where a team can quickly cut their losses if it doesn’t look promising.  Just a hunch.

 

9 hours ago, Alex22 said:

 

This isn't a question that is definable by position. If a good player is available I expect Ballard will make a play. Otherwise if no good players at positions of need are available then there is no point. 

 

I agree.  Any player taken (IMHO) would have to be as at least the 43rd best player on the team (46 that dress, minus kicker, punter and long snapper) when picked up.  Then release the 53rd best player.  Do this as long as it the criteria is met.  hopefully depth in weak positions is strengthened also, but if not, the team as a whole is still improved. Even then, it is a hard sell to ‘get a guy’ off the waiver wire after cut downs. Why?

 

Issues getting players late?  Coaches and Ballard will ask pro player director-  Does this guy know our system?  Does his skill set ‘fit’ the system? Is he intelligent enough to quickly learn the system? Can you get him fully game ready by the week 1 game? If not, how long until he’s ready? Etc...

 

The GM’s and Coach (HC, OC, DC) are reluctant to replace a guy that they have invested in all pre-season/training camp and knows and is improving within the system.   I’ve heard ex GM’s and ex pro-player directors mention this scenario many times. The pro player director has all of the scouts lists of potential cutdown players and their abilities/skills, but it still has to be ‘sold’ to CB and FR first.

 

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

I live in Dallas...... most of the locals didnt want him

 

Dez today is a LONG way from Dez 5 years ago

 

Hard pass

Listen to Mike, everybody..

[oldunclemark]

Its hard to bring in an offensive lineman after the pre-season and have him have a big effect.

He has to fit in....and once the season begins that's hard

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

I agree with the need for RT, but also know it will be difficult to find someone to fill that spot, since any decent RT won't likely get cut.

 

I also know that our new offensive scheme of quick hitters and having Luck get passes off faster will help, so whoever is at RT will just need to provide some protection, but not as much as in the past when our QB's had to wait for longer routes to develop.

 

RT and LT are such hard positions when the defensive ends are allowed to line up so far outside the end of the offensive line.  They have such an advantage with their rush angle that large offensive tackles just can't get out fast enough to set up.  

 

I think the NFL could protect QBs more if they limit the starting position of DEs to cut down on that starting angle.  Would give OTs a better chance to pass block and help cut down on sacks and QB injuries.

 

I realize defenses feel like they are already at a huge disadvantage with rule changes, but player safety has obviously become a priority.

Good post.  One thing to consider though, the farther outside the DE lines up, the longer it takes him to get to the QB.  Its one reason why Brady doesn't get sacked much, because the ball is out before the DE can get to him.  Its also why defenses are starting to emphasize pass rush from the middle (shorter distance from A to B) to counter the quicker release offenses.  In return, GMs place value on Gs (but they can still be found in the 2nd round, IMO). 

 

JMO, but edge pass rushers like Freeney and Mathis are not as valuable as they once were, in part because offenses are changing.  At least the good ones that make it into the playoffs (or Jacksonville, who negates the edge rusher by running the ball).

[Barry Sears]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Good post.  One thing to consider though, the farther outside the DE lines up, the longer it takes him to get to the QB.  Its one reason why Brady doesn't get sacked much, because the ball is out before the DE can get to him.  Its also why defenses are starting to emphasize pass rush from the middle (shorter distance from A to B) to counter the quicker release offenses.  In return, GMs place value on Gs (but they can still be found in the 2nd round, IMO). 

 

JMO, but edge pass rushers like Freeney and Mathis are not as valuable as they once were, in part because offenses are changing.  At least the good ones that make it into the playoffs (or Jacksonville, who negates the edge rusher by running the ball).

That's a good point about the distance they need to cover and the new emphasis on pass rush from the middle.  But, DEs are much faster now than they were a few years ago.  I think that's why Freeney had such an impact as a smaller, faster DE.

 

NFL is a game of constant adjustment and a lot of copy catting, too!

[jameszeigler834]

12 hours ago, csmopar said:

Odds of you getting a legit number 2 off waivers is non existent 

Probably but you wont know until you try so we will see.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

So it is actually about money, despite the public posturing.

Jerry Jones has not been known to balk on a players money if he thought the player was worth it.

Dez just wasn't worth the money so Jones let him walk.

Dez has no complaints, he got paid for his service when he was in Dallas.

Dez is not being signed right now because he don't have the talent he once had.

[csmopar]

54 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Slauson was signed and Smith was drafted (and any G would have been drafted since it was targeted).  We'd be talking about who between Haeg and Good and Clark would be BACKING UP Slauson and Smith at Gs instead of which one is starting at RT.

 

Drafting McGlinchey to eventually take over at LT would avoid us having to use a 1st round pick on an LT in the next 2 years.  You can't get starting LTs in any round lower than the 1st, but you can get starting Gs in the second and 3rd.  Moving AC to RT would also have extended his career, keeping both T spots nailed down for about 4 to 5 more years while we pick Gs in rounds 2 and 3.

maybe. But keep in mind, I think they were hedging against Mewhort as well. I think Ballard had a suspicion about his condition. If he hadn't retired, they could have slid him over to RT, which he had some experience with. If they retired, at least they solidified the left side. 

[Luck 4 president]

Linemen are at a premium right now in the league. I highly doubt anyone will cut a tackle who can start for us. Our best shot would be to trade next year’s 2nd (we have 2) for a good young tackle.

[Luck 4 president]

58 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Slauson was signed and Smith was drafted (and any G would have been drafted since it was targeted).  We'd be talking about who between Haeg and Good and Clark would be BACKING UP Slauson and Smith at Gs instead of which one is starting at RT.

 

Drafting McGlinchey to eventually take over at LT would avoid us having to use a 1st round pick on an LT in the next 2 years.  You can't get starting LTs in any round lower than the 1st, but you can get starting Gs in the second and 3rd.  Moving AC to RT would also have extended his career, keeping both T spots nailed down for about 4 to 5 more years while we pick Gs in rounds 2 and 3.

If we traded back with the Bills then McGlinchey would’ve been a good pick, but not at 6. We needed a LG just as much as another tackle, and there weren’t any where we picked in the 2nd. I guess we could have traded up a few spots in the 2nd and taken Hernandez then our whole line would be fixed. Smith never played on the left side and I honestly thought it was a foolish pick.

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, csmopar said:

maybe. But keep in mind, I think they were hedging against Mewhort as well. I think Ballard had a suspicion about his condition. If he hadn't retired, they could have slid him over to RT, which he had some experience with. If they retired, at least they solidified the left side. 

Ultimately its about using resources efficiently to make the team better in all areas.  Generally, you can't get starting quality Ts below the first round or in FA (don't become available).  Counting last spring, we had 2 1 st round picks this year and next with which to find a starting RT, whereas we have 4 second round picks with which to find 2 Gs (not considering that you can actually use FA money to find one since they do become available.)  Possibly only needing to use 1 of 4 second round picks on a G.

 

So that's why I always wondered just how good Nelson could possibly be, considering we won't be able to use a 1st rounder on a pass rusher or WR in the coming years because we still need to find a RT, possibly even a LT too if AC needs replacing.  Yet, we have 4 seconds with which to find Gs.  Drafting Nelson over McGlinchey seemed like poor management of resources to me, but it might all work out for the better.

 

 

[Fisticuffs111]

Yeah, I don't think any team is cutting a good enough RT for us to be able to start. Not that Ballard won't pick up anybody on the OL, we could definitely use some depth, but nothing starter material.

I'm almost starting to think Ballard might hit the waiver wire too hard this year. Maybe at LB or CB, but I can see him being content most everywhere else, even at WR. Not that WR is a strength, not by a long shot, but it seems they like Grant/Chester and might be content with giving a couple young guys a shot if somebody goes down.

[TheMarine]

Depending on Cuts I expect in this order

1) O-Line Talent
2) WR
3) PR/KR

4) LB

 

 

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Ultimately its about using resources efficiently to make the team better in all areas.  Generally, you can't get starting quality Ts below the first round or in FA (don't become available).  Counting last spring, we had 2 1 st round picks this year and next with which to find a starting RT, whereas we have 4 second round picks with which to find 2 Gs (not considering that you can actually use FA money to find one since they do become available.)  Possibly only needing to use 1 of 4 second round picks on a G.

 

So that's why I always wondered just how good could Nelson possibly be, considering we won't be able to use a 1st rounder on a pass rusher or WR in the coming years because we still need to find a RT, possible a LT if AC needs replacing.  Yet, we have 4 seconds.  Drafting Nelson over McGlinchey seemed like poor management of resources to me, but it might all work out for the better.

 

 

Nothing says we cant take a pass rusher or WR or any other position in next years 1st round...

[fatboy]

Barring injuries, we are set at Safety and TE.  If we manage to get a starter one week before the first game, it’s because of a very weak position - namely RT.  Anyone else will be rotational player at best.  Nothing I’d get too excited about.

[lollygagger8]

In order: 

 

RB

WR

RT (which I'm still not holding my breath on) 

[DougDew]

39 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Nothing says we cant take a pass rusher or WR or any other position in next years 1st round...

You missed my point.  When you fill one position, you eliminate the possibility of filling others with that pick. 

 

Counting last spring, I'm simply saying that we will need two starting Ts in the next three years (AC won't be here then)  and we only have 3 1st round picks to find the 2.  But, we have 4 seconds AND free agency with which to find 2 Gs.  It seems obvious we should have used the 1st to find a T, and reserve the 2nds and FA to find the Gs.  Use the right resources to find the right players, and that maximizes the roster. 

 

In addition to Nelson, I hope Hooker, a FS, is really good enough to have skipped on a T, a pass rusher, or a #1 CB with the 15th pick last year, or whatever other picks we could have gotten in a trade down.

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, Luck 4 president said:

Linemen are at a premium right now in the league. I highly doubt anyone will cut a tackle who can start for us. Our best shot would be to trade next year’s 2nd (we have 2) for a good young tackle.

I would agree and think that this is our only approach at this point.... 

 

There should be a team or two that is trying to engage their young players, and an aging vet that might have 2-3 years left......

 

I would be looking at something like a 5th....... though

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

So it is actually about money, despite the public posturing.

 

Actually...   no, I don’t think so.  

 

Articles about Dez Bryant have been saying for years now that he’s not the same player he once was.   I believe he’s had four straight sub-1000 yard seasons.   He still runs a limited rout tree and isn’t winning enough on the contested passes that he used to win with greater frequency. 

 

And then you have all the baggage that Dez brings everywhere he goes.   And he was no longer worth it on any level.

 

Notice not one team has offered him a contract that he couldn’t turn down fast enough.   The Ravens reportedly offered 3/21 and he quickly said no.   He reportedly expected more from some other team.   Hasn’t happened.

Cleve reportedly offered 1/5-7 and Dez said no.    No team has met his price.

 

So...    it’s performance AND price.  Not just one or the other.

 

Sorry this went so long.

 

[chad72]

Just like Joe Reitz, we need to start looking at TEs that come into the league as purely blocking TEs with a base level of athleticism for TEs (will end up working better for OL), ask them to put on weight and groom them to be OL on the PS. The dearth of quality OLs coming from the college level might want us to give some thought to that.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Actually...   no, I don’t think so.  

 

Articles about Dez Bryant have been saying for years now that he’s not the same player he once was.   I believe he’s had four straight sub-1000 yard seasons.   He still runs a limited tour tree and isn’t winning enough on the contested passes that he used to win with greater frequency. 

 

And then you have all the baggage that Dez brings everywhere he goes.   And he was no longer worth it on any level.

 

Notice not one team has offered him a contract that he couldn’t turn down fast enough.   The Ravens reportedly offered 3/21 and he quickly said no.   He reportedly expected more from some other team.   Hasn’t happened.

Cleve reportedly offered 1/5-7 and Dez said no.    

 

No team has met his price.

 

 

I meant that he still wants his money.  He's talented enough to have a role in an offense, but he hasn't come down to reality.  Its not like teams are saying he can no longer play at all.  At least that's how I read the situation.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I meant that he still wants his money.  He's talented enough to have a role in an offense, but he hasn't come down to reality.  Its not like teams are saying he can no longer play at all.  At least that's how I read the situation.

 

That’s fair.   He can play.   But he still wants to be paid like a star.   And his last four seasons say he’s just not that anymore.

 

[Lawrence Owen]

Halapoulivaati Vaitai Is a guy I think Ballard and Reich should go after trade wise.  He's currently the Eagles Back-up and is solid.  I'd give a 3rd or 4th and one of our Corners who has promise to play nickle. (this is where they are in desperate need of.)

I know we are not real Deep at corner, but I think it'll be easier to find a corner with promise than a Quality tackle in this league.

 

[Flash7]

We had signed Andre Johnson and Hakeem Nicks because they were stars, without considering who they were going to be the upcoming season.

 

We were looking backwards and not forward.

 

Signing Dez would be the same mistake. He is no longer who he once was and wouldn’t provide us what we’re looking for.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Luck 4 president said:

Linemen are at a premium right now in the league. I highly doubt anyone will cut a tackle who can start for us. Our best shot would be to trade next year’s 2nd (we have 2) for a good young tackle.

If we aren't going to trade for Mack then I think it makes sense to trade one of our second's for a starting RT.   It worked our well when we traded for Vontae Davis.  Maybe the same team and get Juwan James from the Dolphins.  I have to believe we can find a good one for a two.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

Halapoulivaati Vaitai Is a guy I think Ballard and Reich should go after trade wise.  He's currently the Eagles Back-up and is solid.  I'd give a 3rd or 4th and one of our Corners who has promise to play nickle. (this is where they are in desperate need of.)

I know we are not real Deep at corner, but I think it'll be easier to find a corner with promise than a Quality tackle in this league.

 

 

really?  You have much faith...

 

https://www.pennlive.com/philadelphiaeagles/index.ssf/2018/08/halapoulivaati_vaitai_gets_ear.html

 

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/eagles-halapouilivaati-vaitai-offensive-line-tackle-nick-foles-browns-recap-score-20180824.html

 

I heard these games live on SiriusXM. If he performed like he had in these games with Luck back there, all of Indiana would have torches and pitchforks at the ready.

[Luck 4 president]

Maybe we can trade a mid pick for Donald Penn. him and Gruden don’t get along and they replaced him with a rookie. He’s old but hasn’t slowed down yet so we could use him for 2 years while we look for a younger replacement. AC, Nelson, Kelly, Slauson, Penn sounds like a great lineup. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

3 hours ago, chad72 said:

Just like Joe Reitz, we need to start looking at TEs that come into the league as purely blocking TEs with a base level of athleticism for TEs (will end up working better for OL), ask them to put on weight and groom them to be OL on the PS. The dearth of quality OLs coming from the college level might want us to give some thought to that.

I think Joe Reitz was a basketball player.

[Jackie Daytona]

WR - Tommylee Lewis NO Saints......  he's tiny, but would be a guy worth a long look as a stretch WR and PR/KR guy