Colts Draft Strategy Has Completely Changed OR Has It......

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I made no mention of Alabama or stats or anything else.    Not a word.   Just that he's the best of a bad class...

 

And did you say Marvin Harrison?

 

Hall of Famer, Marvin Harrison?   That guy?    I know if no one else who thinks that, or thinks he could be half as good.

 

Goodness...   I don't know where you came up with that one?

 

The articles you’re reading are based on other people’s ideas. How did they get those ideas? One way would be to downplay Ridley based on his stats. It’s a glaring flaw people make when scouting Alabama pass catchers. And it’s why Ridley is getting downplayed. Happens every year. 

 

Anyone who actually watches Ridley play can see the talent. 

 

Did you read where I said in order to reach Marvin, it’s a long way up there? Or did you just overlook that? 

 

Keep in mind, I saw every NFL play that Marvin Harrison ever had, including the preseason games. And I watched every play live. 

[DougDew]

WalterFootball is saying that the Dolphins are ready to move on from Tannehill and have been linked to Baker Mayfield.  I don't know what "linked" means, but Mayfield might be a target with Pick #6 to the Dolphins.  Moving up 5 spots wouldn't be so expensive as to deter them from doing it.

 

They have pick 11, one ahead of the Bills. 

[1959Colts]

Don't be surprised if Ballard picks Denzel Ward at 6

[BlueShoe]

6 minutes ago, nburgmei said:

NFL.com's draft profile has it as his comp! I don't think I've seen a more exaggerated comp. Barkley comped to Barry isn't even as galling. 

 

Lance Zierlein must be completely off his rocker, right? I must be off my rocker too, right?

 

Who would have thunk it..... A respected media draft scout and an avid Colts fan / long time NFL draft enthusiast (me) both off our rockers, because you disagree with us. 

 

Truth is, anyone can be right or wrong here. We never know exactly how these things turn out until they do. 

 

Truth also is, there is a reason we are both comparing Ridley to Marvin Harrison. We are not saying it will happen, but the ceiling certainly exists. It’s a long way to climb, but the talent is there for it to possibly happen. 

 

I would say that combined, Lance and I have about 70 years or so of draft experience. Take it for what it’s worth. 

 

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

If a GM loves a player it shouldn't matter if he's picked @#6 or @#8.... You dont pass up "your guy" because of a couple spots....thats stupid. Maybe try trade down a couple spots and get him there but that's risky.

 

Personally, i predict we trade down at least once more and get all the picks we can, especially top 50.

 

Well....

 

We weren't talking about 6 or 8 were we?

 

We were talking about 6 or 10.       And that difference is NOT stupid.....

 

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Don't be surprised if Ballard picks Denzel Ward at 6

 

Bingo. And that is the point of this thread. 

 

Ward’s size concerns me, but his athletic ability is just off the charts. DJ said that coaches from Ohio State call him the most gifted athlete they’ve ever coached. That’s high praise. 

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

The articles you’re reading are based on other people’s ideas. How did they get those ideas? One way would be to downplay Ridley based on his stats. It’s a glaring flaw people make when scouting Alabama pass catchers. And it’s why Ridley is getting downplayed. Happens every year. 

 

Anyone who actually watches Ridley play can see the talent. 

 

Did you read where I said in order to reach Marvin, it’s a long way up there? Or did you just overlook that? 

 

Keep in mind, I saw every NFL play that Marvin Harrison ever had, including the preseason games. And I watched every play live. 

 

I'm conservative on comparisons....

 

I scoffed when JShipp started comparing Barkley to Bo Jackson and Barry Sanders.   

 

And I don't buy the Ridley has a ceiling of Marvin Harrison talk either.     If you want to say they have similar styles or their built the same way,  that's one thing.

 

But to say Ridley has the ceiling of Marvin Harrison is quite another.     I'm just never comfortable with that....

 

[1959Colts]

6 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Bingo. And that is the point of this thread. 

 

Ward’s size concerns me, but his athletic ability is just off the charts. DJ said that coaches from Ohio State call him the most gifted athlete they’ve ever coached. That’s high praise. 

 

Everyone is convinced we are targeting Nelson and Chubb but I know Ballard is not narrow minded. He will pick the player he likes best. and Ward is shooting up the draft boards.

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm conservative on comparisons....

 

I scoffed when JShipp started comparing Barkley to Bo Jackson and Barry Sanders.   

 

And I don't buy the Ridley has a ceiling of Marvin Harrison talk either.     If you want to say they have similar styles or their built the same way,  that's one thing.

 

But to say Ridley has the ceiling of Marvin Harrison is quite another.     I'm just never comfortable with that....

 

 

To me, Barkley’s ceiling is Edgerrin James. Had it not been for Edgerrin’s injury, he might have been the best of this century. 

 

I look at ceilings and floors. Ridley’s ceiling is Marvin Harrison.

[OLD FAN MAN]

looks like ballard is writing off 2018, hard to find day one starters out of the top 3, most draft picks take a few years to start, imo he is building for 2019 and 2020, the lack of free agents signed makes it look more like he is looking a few years down the road. he has a plan if we are patient, at 74 years of age i may not have time to see another colts winning season

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

To me, Barkley’s ceiling is Edgerrin James. Had it not been for Edgerrin’s injury, he might have been the best of this century. 

 

I look at ceilings and floors. Ridley’s ceiling is Marvin Harrison.

 

I like ceilings and floors too....

 

But I wouldn't put Ridley in the same sentece with Harrison,  except to say there's no comparison.

 

I'm afraid we see this one completely different.

 

[Boiler_Colt]

Vea is a NT. The release of Hankins implies that they want quicker upfield penetrators at DT. Vea is not that. Hurst, Bryan and BJ Hill come to mind.

[nburgmei]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'm conservative on comparisons....

 

I scoffed when JShipp started comparing Barkley to Bo Jackson and Barry Sanders.   

 

And I don't buy the Ridley has a ceiling of Marvin Harrison talk either.     If you want to say they have similar styles or their built the same way,  that's one thing.

 

But to say Ridley has the ceiling of Marvin Harrison is quite another.     I'm just never comfortable with that....

 

I was typing pretty much this same response so I'll just go with yours. 

[BProland85]

It makes ZERO sense to release Hankins to bring in Vita Vea. Vea fits only the 3-4 scheme, and Hankins can play both schemes.

 

Maybe this is more about what Ballard and the coaching staff thinks of Grover Stewart?

 

I'm thinking if the Colts stay at 6, Ballard will have 2 of these 3 players available (Bradley Chubb, Quenton Nelson, Minkah Fitzpatrick) The pick will be one of them.

 

If Ballard trades down yet again, I could see us targeting Tremaine Edmunds or Roquon Smith.

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I like ceilings and floors too....

 

But I wouldn't put Ridley in the same sentece with Harrison,  except to say there's no comparison.

 

I'm afraid we see this one completely different.

 

 

It won’t be the last time we see things differently.  

 

What fun would it be if we all thought the same way? 

[BlueShoe]

5 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

looks like ballard is writing off 2018, hard to find day one starters out of the top 3, most draft picks take a few years to start, imo he is building for 2019 and 2020, the lack of free agents signed makes it look more like he is looking a few years down the road. he has a plan if we are patient, at 74 years of age i may not have time to see another colts winning season

 

It might take us some time, but it could also happen quickly. 

 

A healthy Luck puts us back in contention. As long as we can protect him and run the ball a little then we will be in ball games.

 

Look at what New Orleans did last year with those great picks. 

[bananabucket]

7 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Vea fits only the 3-4 scheme

 

Says who?  

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

It might take us some time, but it could also happen quickly. 

 

A healthy Luck puts us back in contention. As long as we can protect him and run the ball a little then we will be in ball games.

 

Look at what New Orleans did last year with those great picks. 

yes there is always hope, bb does it every year with a lot of new faces, philly turned it around quick too

[#12.]

For where we are going defensively, I suspect Ballard may prefer some of the other pass rushers to Chubb anyway.  Might as well trade down(several times, if you can) and still get your guy.  

[chrisfarley]

11 minutes ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Vea is a NT. The release of Hankins implies that they want quicker upfield penetrators at DT. Vea is not that. Hurst, Bryan and BJ Hill come to mind.

yes, no doubt, different d-fensvie scheme dictates a different player make-up from hankins.  hankins was a man's man defending the run, but we need a hybrid pass-rush & run-stopper for new scheme.  I'd say see if you can replace him in free agency, going to be hard thru draft to find a day 1 starter, unless you're willing to rebuild while leaving gaping holes.

[Carlos Danger]

Barkely is no Edge... He's not Gurley or Zeke, either. He's probably going to be good in the NFL, but he has issues as a prospect. 

 

He can break away and catch passes extremely well for a person his size. However, he tends to bounce everything outside and generally play smaller than his frame would indicate he could. I dont think it's a strength issue, just a mentality thing, but he needs to get better between the Tackles if he is going to be a workhorse back in the NFL...

 

I doubt he sets the world on fire in his first year. He is definitely not worth the Colts #6 pick in a draft where Chubb, Nelson or Fitzpatrick would be available, imo. 

 

For me, it isn't even positional value. I'd be fine with Nelson at #6 (or #3, for that matter). I just don't think Barkely is as good as his hype would indicate and that most NFL GMs will be able to see that after watching his games... He had quite a few bad/mediocre games in 2017... how is he a "perfect" prospect? I just don't see it... I see a 1st round talent, but not a top 5 guy in most drafts, even in this relatively weak class. Jmo, of course. 

[ColtStrong2013]

I have yet to find one mock that has Vea in the top 10, so am I missing something? 

 

I would be shocked if Chubb isn't at #6 on draft day... I think it is a no-brainer if so. I thought it was at #3, but had a feeling there would be a trade with the amount of qb talent and need this year. We are really fortunate this is the case, and might have serious trade opportunities on draft day because of teams scrambling to get in position. The excitement will continue to build every day. Round 2 has the potential for some great (and much needed) talent at positions like interior line, runningback, and linebacker. I hope for all 3 to be addressed, but would be tickled to see CB package an early 2nd for a 1st next year and hope we land a top 10 pick. 

 

I can't help but think of Pagano and Grigson in their "let's hunt" mentality. It is refreshing to be building a young and talented roster to develop instead of older, overpriced and washed out retreads that those clowns jumped on for so many years. 

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

It won’t be the last time we see things differently.  

 

What fun would it be if we all thought the same way? 

 

I want to be clear about something....

 

I'm not saying Ridley can't be good...   very good,  or even all-pro.

 

I'm just not comfortable with comparisons to Hall of Fame players as their ceiling.     Style of play,  sure.    But not as a pure ceiling comparison.    I'm just way too conservative that way.

 

[BlueShoe]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I want to be clear about something....

 

I'm not saying Ridley can't be good...   very good,  or even all-pro.

 

I'm just not comfortable with comparisons to Hall of Fame players as their ceiling.     Style of play,  sure.    But not as a pure ceiling comparison.    I'm just way too conservative that way.

 

 

Do you know where Marvin Harrison was drafted? How many receivers do you think went in front of him?

 

At one time, Marvin wasn’t even Marvin yet. At the time, he was my number 1 receiver in the draft. I was excited when we called his name. 

 

I let my eyes tell me what they see. I use some measureables to confirm or deny. Production also matters, but that varies per system and what was asked of the player. I have no fear of comparing anyone to anybody. Why would I? Because some people might get upset if I do? LOL. That’s about them. Not me. 

 

We all see things differently. 

[Hoose]

48 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

It might take us some time, but it could also happen quickly. 

 

A healthy Luck puts us back in contention. As long as we can protect him and run the ball a little then we will be in ball games.

 

Look at what New Orleans did last year with those great picks. 

BlueShoe, I think you just made a pretty darn good argument for drafting Nelson, especially now that they have the 6th pick. Its no longer a reach, if it ever was.  I've done some research on other site's ratings for the top players in the draft, and Nelson consistently lands top 5 or better. In some cases, he is the top rated talent. With the desperate need to protect Luck with a better O-line, I think this guy is a no brainer. If the Colts trade back with the Bills because the offer is just too enticing, I still think they will prioritize Hernandez if he's as high up their board as I think he should be. But I'd be just fine standing pat and getting a player with such great talent in a huge position of need. 

[crestmount]

If we were to trade down again with either Miami or Buffalo (2 QB needy teams) what could we expect to get?

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, crestmount said:

If we were to trade down again with either Miami or Buffalo (2 QB needy teams) what could we expect to get?

 

Ballard essentially said he would want more than the normal rate. 

 

Here are the commonly used Trade Values. 

 

https://footballdungeon.com/news/2018-nfl-draft-order/

 

I think Buffalo would at least have to give us both of their first round picks. 

[BlueShoe]

6 minutes ago, Hoose said:

BlueShoe, I think you just made a pretty darn good argument for drafting Nelson, especially now that they have the 6th pick. Its no longer a reach, if it ever was.  I've done some research on other site's ratings for the top players in the draft, and Nelson consistently lands top 5 or better. In some cases, he is the top rated talent. With the desperate need to protect Luck with a better O-line, I think this guy is a no brainer. If the Colts trade back with the Bills because the offer is just too enticing, I still think they will prioritize Hernandez if he's as high up their board as I think he should be. But I'd be just fine standing pat and getting a player with such great talent in a huge position of need. 

 

Yeah. Nelson has been my favorite for quite some time now. I hope we can walk out of this draft with him. 

[Hoose]

2 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Ballard essentially said he would want more than the normal rate. 

 

Here are the commonly used Trade Values. 

 

https://footballdungeon.com/news/2018-nfl-draft-order/

 

I think Buffalo would at least have to give us both of their first round picks. 

And then some. Two firsts and a second, at minimum. Maybe toss in pick 65 that they got from the Browns as well. But it would be painful seeing the top players taken just out of the Colts' reach...which would likely happen if they make this trade.

[Lucky1]

 If CB can get 2 first rounders (one top 12) and 4 2nd rounders for the #3 overall pick? Oh man...

[HectorRoberts]

I really thing our guy is Nelson 

[superrep1967]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Yes..    Ballard says that for Buffalo.   That way they know we value staying in the top 10...   so if we're being asked to trade out of the top-10, that team will have to pay a premium.

 

That's the message he's sending.

 

Exactly! no question.

[superrep1967]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I have yet to find one mock that has Vea in the top 10, so am I missing something? 

 

I would be shocked if Chubb isn't at #6 on draft day... I think it is a no-brainer if so. I thought it was at #3, but had a feeling there would be a trade with the amount of qb talent and need this year. We are really fortunate this is the case, and might have serious trade opportunities on draft day because of teams scrambling to get in position. The excitement will continue to build every day. Round 2 has the potential for some great (and much needed) talent at positions like interior line, runningback, and linebacker. I hope for all 3 to be addressed, but would be tickled to see CB package an early 2nd for a 1st next year and hope we land a top 10 pick. 

 

I can't help but think of Pagano and Grigson in their "let's hunt" mentality. It is refreshing to be building a young and talented roster to develop instead of older, overpriced and washed out retreads that those clowns jumped on for so many years. 

We need a cornerback as well. 

[jimmy g]

1 hour ago, HectorRoberts said:

I really thing our guy is Nelson 

I'll ask a dumb question (I'm no draft geek!)

 

If Nelson is there, but there's a good chance to trade that pick into McGlinchey AND Hernandez- which is better?

[BlueShoe]

22 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

I'll ask a dumb question (I'm no draft geek!)

 

If Nelson is there, but there's a good chance to trade that pick into McGlinchey AND Hernandez- which is better?

 

I will give you my opinion.

 

Mike McGlinchey is best suited at RT. He could play LT, but I think his skill set translates to a RT. 

 

I see Will Hernandez as a power guard. 

 

Quenton Nelson is one of the best interior lineman I have ever scouted. I think that in a pinch he could even play tackle. He is best suited at guard. The combination of power and explosiveness is unlike anything I have ever seen. 

[jimmy g]

3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I will give you my opinion.

 

Mike McGlinchey is best suited at right tackle. He could play LT, but I think his skill set translates to a RT. 

 

I see Will Hernandez as a power guard. 

 

Quenton Nelson is one of the best interior lineman I have ever scouted. I think that in a pinch he could even play tackle. He is best suited at guard. The combination of power and explosiveness is unlike anything I have ever seen. 

Don't we need BOTH a power guard AND a,Right Tackle?

[jimmy g]

We have Haeg, Good, Clark, Vuj, and Bond?  Person and Mewhort could possibly be courted. They were hurt and are recovering. Maybe Cooper from Dallas could be courted, or someone yet to be cut.

 

We need blockers (multiples).  Andrew can't throw it if Defenders get to him before the ball does.

[BlueShoe]

19 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

Don't we need BOTH a power guard AND a,Right Tackle?

 

Typically a west coast offense will utilize a zone based offensive line scheme. 

 

I am not going to say Will Hernandez can’t play in a zone scheme, but I think he would be better served in a power scheme. 

 

I think Nelson could play any OL position in any scheme. 

 

 

[HectorRoberts]

51 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

I'll ask a dumb question (I'm no draft geek!)

 

If Nelson is there, but there's a good chance to trade that pick into McGlinchey AND Hernandez- which is better?

Honestly I’d take McGlinchey and Hernandez 

[philba101]

This is definitely the right move as it is clear that free agents do not want to come to Indy. So instead you re-build your team through the draft. Unfortunately, the Colts have a lot of pieces to fill.