Could Colts GM Chris Ballard Bring Chiefs Eric Berry, Dontari Poe to Indy?

[Finball]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Was wondering the same thing only saftey in his class is Earl Thomas 

 

Harrison Smith.

[Jason_]

When was the last time of big-name player followed the director of player Personnel to a new team? I'm honestly asking I have no idea if it has ever happened.

[Luck is Good]

5 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

When was the last time of big-name player followed the director of player Personnel to a new team? I'm honestly asking I have no idea if it has ever happened.

I don't know man but what I do know is I would take either one of them

[Colts_Fan12]

20 minutes ago, Finball said:

 

Harrison Smith.

Yeah him too but neither of them are FAs so I don't know who he's talking about 

[Finball]

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

When was the last time of big-name player followed the director of player Personnel to a new team? I'm honestly asking I have no idea if it has ever happened.

 

Freeney and Telesco to SD might be the closest one in recent history.

[throwing BBZ]

On 2/3/2017 at 5:05 PM, Jdubu said:

Is it just me or did Poe just not overwhelm me with his play in the largest game of his season against the Pats? That defense got gashed and iirc, Poe wasn't a factor in that game at all. Do you pay 12-15 million a year for a guy who doesn't shine in such a big game? That concerns me a big for the simple fact Poe is surrounded by talent and they barely slowed Tommy boy wonder up in that game. We have far less defensive talent to surround Poe with so will teams simply just eliminate Poe knowing we have no other talent to get through the offensive line? Unless we add 2 superior talents on that defense, I'd probably forgo spending such cash on one player. Idk, I'm torn here. 

 

 If you consider we have no defense, that would mean we are going to rebuild it through the draft over the next couple years.
 So whoever we were to sign as a FA on D won`t really bare fruit for a year or two at the soonest.
  Our O-Line is very young and inexperienced and our Frank isn`t going to lead us beyond next season, if that, to more than a token ground game.
 Will our new GM spend big on defenders that won`t really be needed next season as we Grind for what will likely be another mediocre season? Na!

[dgambill]

4 hours ago, MFT5 said:

 

who exactly?

Tony Jefferson. He had a great 2016 and is like 3 years younger. Cap strapped Arizona probably won't bring him back and he would cost half as much as Berry.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-10-best-values-in-the-nfl-this-season/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/cardswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/31/pff-believes-one-key-cardinals-free-agent-will-hit-open-market/amp/?client=safari

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2686727-nfl-free-agents-2017-early-predictions-for-this-years-top-available-players

 

Thats who I would go after. Plus coverage grades and best rates tackling safety I believe. Isn't that what you want in a safety. Sure tacklier and cover the underneath stuff. Berry sure had the highlight plays but this team has so many needs to spend double on one position when we could get a great safety and have more money to spend at lb or corner... yes please all day long. Being 3 years younger is key too. There are several others out there below that level but Cyprien and church where solid and San Diego has one I can't remember his name but he might be worth a look. Point being we don't have to have a Porsche back there...a nice beemer will do just nicely.

[masnerj]

I think that there are alot of guys in this league (specifically free agents) that are not stars or atleast aren't household names but are still highly effective and above-average starters. Sites like PFF help quantify ever player's contribution and merit (though I do agree sometimes they are wrong) and can help average fans learn of guys that play well, are young, and aren't gonna break the bank. 

 

I have full trust in Ballard to go after these types of guys rather than going after headline players. I don't think we will be seeing household free agent names coming to Indy year in year out. What I do see are bargain buys, reclamation projects, guys with huge upside, guys that need new scenery, etc. You don't have to go out and buy a Poe or a Berry to call free agency a success. 

[Restored]

12 hours ago, masnerj said:

I think that there are alot of guys in this league (specifically free agents) that are not stars or atleast aren't household names but are still highly effective and above-average starters. Sites like PFF help quantify ever player's contribution and merit (though I do agree sometimes they are wrong) and can help average fans learn of guys that play well, are young, and aren't gonna break the bank. 

 

I have full trust in Ballard to go after these types of guys rather than going after headline players. I don't think we will be seeing household free agent names coming to Indy year in year out. What I do see are bargain buys, reclamation projects, guys with huge upside, guys that need new scenery, etc. You don't have to go out and buy a Poe or a Berry to call free agency a success. 

 

Grigson tried this approach with guys like Walden, RJF and a few other guys. At the end of the day, you are going to overpay in free agency most of the time. Might as well spend it on a player that will actually live up to contract.

[DarkHorse]

You build through the draft and sign free agents for plugins

[dgambill]

On 2/5/2017 at 8:21 AM, Restored said:

 

Grigson tried this approach with guys like Walden, RJF and a few other guys. At the end of the day, you are going to overpay in free agency most of the time. Might as well spend it on a player that will actually live up to contract.

So he didn't sign Arthur Jones, Andre Johnson, Hakeem Nicks, Frank Gore, DQ, Laron Landry, Gosdner Cherilus??? These were all top end free agents at their positions the year they came in from FA....and they were just as much a mixed bag as the lesser free agents we've signed like Mike Adams and Langford and Butler, and I think Walden lived up to his contract. Fact is it's hit or miss no matter what...very seldom does FA solve much other than the problem of having too much cap space....solves that issue pretty quickly usually. Typically there are only a handful of FA that hit it big after signing to a new team...and id say a majority are under the radar signings at the time. There are always a few exceptions but let's not act like signing the top 3 free agents on NFLs free agent tracker will just fix everything or even work out.

[Rackeen305]

On 2/4/2017 at 5:51 PM, Finball said:

 

Harrison Smith.

Compared to Berry, Who? I know you arent comparing the two. Js

[Restored]

15 minutes ago, dgambill said:

So he didn't sign Arthur Jones, Andre Johnson, Hakeem Nicks, Frank Gore, DQ, Laron Landry, Gosdner Cherilus??? These were all top end free agents at their positions the year they came in from FA....and they were just as much a mixed bag as the lesser free agents we've signed like Mike Adams and Langford and Butler, and I think Walden lived up to his contract. Fact is it's hit or miss no matter what...very seldom does FA solve much other than the problem of having too much cap space....solves that issue pretty quickly usually. Typically there are only a handful of FA that hit it big after signing to a new team...and id say a majority are under the radar signings at the time. There are always a few exceptions but let's not act like signing the top 3 free agents on NFLs free agent tracker will just fix everything or even work out.

 

None of the players you mentioned lived up to the contract they signed other than maybe Gore and Butler. My point is, you have teams like the Broncos who paid for players like TJ Ward, Demarcus Ware and Aqib Talib and got their money's worth from those players. No one said free agency solves all your problems either. I'd just rather see the Colts sign players that can atleast somewhat justify the contract they end up getting. Having a different GM might be the key to that this time around.

[lollygagger8]

Both seem like they would command too much money. 

 

[Superman]

49 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Both seem like they would command too much money. 

 

Forget about that. Let's say you're willing to pay them whatever they'd ask for. They're still not coming.

 

I believe the Chiefs reach a long term deal with Berry prior to free agency. Then I believe they tag Poe. I don't think either of them hits the market this year. Maybe Poe does next year.

 

I say this after looking at the Chiefs situation. They can and probably will shave $20m from their payroll before March, and the only good player under 30 they'll lose is Maclin (if they cut him); maybe Jamaal Charles, but he hasn't played in two years. They can also restructure Justin Houston and Alex Smith, though I'm not sure they will. I think they'll do what it takes to keep Berry and Poe this year.

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 8:55 PM, ztboiler said:

KC isn't as cash strapped as they look....with a little nip and tuck they have enough space to sign both.

Ya but will they if we even were able to get one of them which I know is a big if right now then this team would be automatically better on defense for 2017.

[dgambill]

10 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Forget about that. Let's say you're willing to pay them whatever they'd ask for. They're still not coming.

 

I believe the Chiefs reach a long term deal with Berry prior to free agency. Then I believe they tag Poe. I don't think either of them hits the market this year. Maybe Poe does next year.

 

I say this after looking at the Chiefs situation. They can and probably will shave $20m from their payroll before March, and the only good player under 30 they'll lose is Maclin (if they cut him); maybe Jamaal Charles, but he hasn't played in two years. They can also restructure Justin Houston and Alex Smith, though I'm not sure they will. I think they'll do what it takes to keep Berry and Poe this year.

If they land Tony Romo that could change some things but I honestly think berry is a lock to come back and they maybe tag Poe at worst. I do think they cut Charles and maybe he would be worth a look if he gets healthy. 

 

All said and done id rather have Tony Jefferson who is 3 years young and probably cost 2/3 what Berry would. He is one of the best tacklers in the league and a plus coverage guy. I don't know why we have to go out and pay top dollar for a guy that we can get pretty close to similar production and address other needs. I honestly wish KC would just re-sign both so we can move on to another thread topic.

[masterlock]

On 2/4/2017 at 10:23 PM, masnerj said:

I think that there are alot of guys in this league (specifically free agents) that are not stars or atleast aren't household names but are still highly effective and above-average starters. Sites like PFF help quantify ever player's contribution and merit (though I do agree sometimes they are wrong) and can help average fans learn of guys that play well, are young, and aren't gonna break the bank. 

 

I have full trust in Ballard to go after these types of guys rather than going after headline players. I don't think we will be seeing household free agent names coming to Indy year in year out. What I do see are bargain buys, reclamation projects, guys with huge upside, guys that need new scenery, etc. You don't have to go out and buy a Poe or a Berry to call free agency a success. 

I liked your first paragraph better than your second. "Bargain guys and reclamation projects" is too reminiscent of Grigson--although I do realize that talent evaluation makes all the difference. Still, with $60M in cap space, and probably $65M+ if Art Jones is released, I'd prefer to sign a couple elite players, and spend the rest on the up-and-comers.  (I do realize that some of our cap space will have to go toward re-signing our own players.)

[bap1331]

On 2/3/2017 at 2:05 PM, Jdubu said:

Is it just me or did Poe just not overwhelm me with his play in the largest game of his season against the Pats? That defense got gashed and iirc, Poe wasn't a factor in that game at all. Do you pay 12-15 million a year for a guy who doesn't shine in such a big game? That concerns me a big for the simple fact Poe is surrounded by talent and they barely slowed Tommy boy wonder up in that game. We have far less defensive talent to surround Poe with so will teams simply just eliminate Poe knowing we have no other talent to get through the offensive line? Unless we add 2 superior talents on that defense, I'd probably forgo spending such cash on one player. Idk, I'm torn here. 

LOL! Were you watching the playoffs in an alternate world this year?

[Jdubu]

18 hours ago, bap1331 said:

LOL! Were you watching the playoffs in an alternate world this year?

Probably. But was Poe a factor in that big playoff game, regardless of whether it was the Pats or whether it was Pittsburgh? 

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

I think Ballard can get Berry into town. Next he'll get Kewan Short. Draft linebackers in rd 1 and 2. Ad another defensive lineman or 2, Samaje Perine and a reciver late rounds.

[GoColts8818]

On 2/5/2017 at 4:27 PM, DarkHorse said:

You build through the draft and sign free agents for plugins

Yes you do but the Colts have 55 million to spend and way too many holes to fill in the draft.  They are going to have to spend money on some guys who can play.

[GoColts8818]

On 2/6/2017 at 2:23 PM, Superman said:

 

Forget about that. Let's say you're willing to pay them whatever they'd ask for. They're still not coming.

 

I believe the Chiefs reach a long term deal with Berry prior to free agency. Then I believe they tag Poe. I don't think either of them hits the market this year. Maybe Poe does next year.

 

I say this after looking at the Chiefs situation. They can and probably will shave $20m from their payroll before March, and the only good player under 30 they'll lose is Maclin (if they cut him); maybe Jamaal Charles, but he hasn't played in two years. They can also restructure Justin Houston and Alex Smith, though I'm not sure they will. I think they'll do what it takes to keep Berry and Poe this year.

There are even some reports they might take a run a Romo and just dump Smith all together.

 

As far as free agents go one thing I've learned in the NFL if a team truly wants to keep a guy they will find away.

[SolomonThomasFanAccount]

sign nick fairley and tonny jefferson for half the price 

[Superman]

17 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

There are even some reports they might take a run a Romo and just dump Smith all together.

 

As far as free agents go one thing I've learned in the NFL if a team truly wants to keep a guy they will find away.

 

Romo for Smith winds up being the same, cap-wise, or at least close. 

 

The Chiefs can keep Berry and Poe without even doing the ridiculous backloaded contracts with giant signing bonuses (Jairus Byrd, for instance). But if you're going to do that, you do it for homegrown guys, not outside FAs. So I agree with you, assuming they want them both, they'll work it out and keep them both. I don't even think it's that drastic of a situation, once they start making moves.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Jefferson/Cyprien > Berry

 

 

Cause Berry won't be available. 

[Tmoney]

On 2/4/2017 at 11:43 AM, dgambill said:

I love Berry but there are a couple other safeties out there that are just as good if not better that won't be nearly expensive if we want to go the FA route. I think Ballard would know better than anyone that the Chiefs aren't letting Berry go unless he demands a HUGE contact and I just don't think you pay safeties that kind of money imo. We've seen some pretty good safety play during our years here and breaking the bank for a safety doesn't seem to make sense.

There are a couple other safeties available just as good, if not better, then Eric berry? Umm what? Eric berry is at least the 2nd best safety in the game, and the only ppl even on his level are earl Thomas and a healthy tyron Mathieu. He'd be worth every penny

[Tmoney]

On 2/6/2017 at 9:31 AM, dgambill said:

So he didn't sign Arthur Jones, Andre Johnson, Hakeem Nicks, Frank Gore, DQ, Laron Landry, Gosdner Cherilus??? These were all top end free agents at their positions the year they came in from FA....and they were just as much a mixed bag as the lesser free agents we've signed like Mike Adams and Langford and Butler, and I think Walden lived up to his contract. Fact is it's hit or miss no matter what...very seldom does FA solve much other than the problem of having too much cap space....solves that issue pretty quickly usually. Typically there are only a handful of FA that hit it big after signing to a new team...and id say a majority are under the radar signings at the time. There are always a few exceptions but let's not act like signing the top 3 free agents on NFLs free agent tracker will just fix everything or even work out.

Not one of the guys you listed were considered a big name free agent signing. He just signed a bunch of old guys and bums. If girgson didn't suck so much wed all have a different perspective on free agency and not be so afraid to pull the trigger.

[Tmoney]

No body thinks Eric Berry walks? Well I do. Idk whos letting you guys know he's "4sure staying in KC" but they're ganna have to make ALOT of roster moves to open up enough cap space just for Eric. He's already mad about being tagged last year, its well documented, do you think he really accepts it again? Nope. They could always re sign him and thatd be swell right? Well somebody let me know how much KC has in cap space, the website over the cap shows them having a Lil over $700,000 in cap room. Hmmm you know I dont think that's enough to sign Eric berry. Am I missing something someone let me know becuz I dont see how they could get Perry back without tagging him, which he won't except.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

16 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

No body thinks Eric Berry walks? Well I do. Idk whos letting you guys know he's "4sure staying in KC" but they're ganna have to make ALOT of roster moves to open up enough cap space just for Eric. He's already mad about being tagged last year, its well documented, do you think he really accepts it again? Nope. They could always re sign him and thatd be swell right? Well somebody let me know how much KC has in cap space, the website over the cap shows them having a Lil over $700,000 in cap room. Hmmm you know I dont think that's enough to sign Eric berry. Am I missing something someone let me know becuz I dont see how they could get Perry back without tagging him, which he won't except.

 They can and will make cuts, and will have much more money to work with. 

[southwest1]

On February 3, 2017 at 8:28 PM, TheRustonRifle#7 said:

Both will break the bank, imo.  Would I love them on the team, uhhhhhh yes!  Fiscal responsibility should supersede delusions of grandeur.

Beautifully stated my man. Absolutely nothing more can be added to that. Eloquently said RR7. When you're right; you're right. 

[Tmoney]

1 hour ago, Majin Vegeta said:

 They can and will make cuts, and will have much more money to work with. 

And they can try to scrap together 13-15 mil for a year I guess but he wants a long term deal. Also looking at the roster, they'll cut nick foles probably. But what else do they cut derrick Johnson? He's old but still a stud. Idk plus just like chris Ballard its not a far move from KC eric Perry could look to come here to stay close. To most I'm dreaming but I can make logic with my optimism, at least in my head(:

[Andrew Luck fan club]

46 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

And they can try to scrap together 13-15 mil for a year I guess but he wants a long term deal. Also looking at the roster, they'll cut nick foles probably. But what else do they cut derrick Johnson? He's old but still a stud. Idk plus just like chris Ballard its not a far move from KC eric Perry could look to come here to stay close. To most I'm dreaming but I can make logic with my optimism, at least in my head(:

Jamal Charles

[Finball]

Justin Houston has a cap number of 22.1M next year. They might restructure that.

 

Maclin could be restructured as well, but personally, I'd stay out of it. If he doesn't bounce back, he's easy cut next year. With restructure, they might have to commit to keep him for another 2 more years.

[dgambill]

On 2/13/2017 at 5:20 PM, Superman said:

 

Romo for Smith winds up being the same, cap-wise, or at least close. 

 

The Chiefs can keep Berry and Poe without even doing the ridiculous backloaded contracts with giant signing bonuses (Jairus Byrd, for instance). But if you're going to do that, you do it for homegrown guys, not outside FAs. So I agree with you, assuming they want them both, they'll work it out and keep them both. I don't even think it's that drastic of a situation, once they start making moves.

Exactly. Why does nobody on here put themselves in KC shoes and think about what they would do. Who on their roster is so important that they wouldn't move whatever they have to or restructure whomever they have to to keep two of their best players. Charles, johnson, maclin I would all cut if it meant keeping those two and I think restructuring Alex and Houston are both possibilities. So to think we are just going to take two of their top 5 players off their hands for them would be *ic. Do people not think they plan things out or not realize these guys were going to suddenly be free agents? Their GM be like OMG.... Berry and Poe both FA.....what do we do now....dang....guess we gotta let them go to the Colts because we didn't think about any of that the last few years doing our cap projections...dangit they must have slipped through the cracks...oh NOssss they were on page two of the spreadsheet....I didn't know we had a page 2. We screwed now! 

 

The FA list is no where close to being final. Most of these top guys will be retained and a whole bunch more cap casualties like Cruz and Jennings will get added. The key will be to find a guy or two that has an upside that a team would like to bring back but had to make a choice at another position and had to let go. That's why guys like Jefferson and maybe zeitler or say Logan Ryan would be on my radar.

[Superman]

On 2/13/2017 at 4:03 PM, Tmoney said:

No body thinks Eric Berry walks? Well I do. Idk whos letting you guys know he's "4sure staying in KC" but they're ganna have to make ALOT of roster moves to open up enough cap space just for Eric. He's already mad about being tagged last year, its well documented, do you think he really accepts it again? Nope. They could always re sign him and thatd be swell right? Well somebody let me know how much KC has in cap space, the website over the cap shows them having a Lil over $700,000 in cap room. Hmmm you know I dont think that's enough to sign Eric berry. Am I missing something someone let me know becuz I dont see how they could get Perry back without tagging him, which he won't except.

 

No offense, but I don't think you've thought this through. 

 

I just spent five minutes on OTC getting the Chiefs to $30m+ in cap space, then keeping Berry and Poe. I cut Foles, Charles, and a June 1 release for Johnson (yes, Johnson is still okay, but would you keep him if it meant losing Berry or Poe?), restructured Houston to create $6m in cap space, restructured Smith to create $3.5m. 

 

I tagged Poe at $13.5m. Then I signed Berry at five years, $62.8m, with $40m guaranteed. This is just higher than Tyrann Mathieu's contract with a similar structure, and makes Berry the highest paid safety in the league. His 2017 cap hit is $9m (I could go as low as $5m in Year 1, but I like a more balanced structure). I'm now at $9.4m going into FA and the draft. I could get rid of Maclin and create another $10m. And I still have until 7/15 to get Poe done long term and reduce his cap hit. Prior to Poe and without my draft picks, I've committed less than $150m in 2018.

 

Will they do this? It's debatable. No one knows what actually happens. My point is that, if they want to keep them, they absolutely can. If it were up to me, I'd make Poe and Berry my first priorities, and figure out everything else. I want to keep my best players.

[dgambill]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No offense, but I don't think you've thought this through. 

 

I just spent five minutes on OTC getting the Chiefs to $30m+ in cap space, then keeping Berry and Poe. I cut Foles, Charles, and a June 1 release for Johnson (yes, Johnson is still okay, but would you keep him if it meant losing Berry or Poe?), restructured Houston to create $6m in cap space, restructured Smith to create $3.5m. 

 

I tagged Poe at $13.5m. Then I signed Berry at five years, $62.8m, with $40m guaranteed. This is just higher than Tyrann Mathieu's contract with a similar structure, and makes Berry the highest paid safety in the league. His 2017 cap hit is $9m (I could go as low as $5m in Year 1, but I like a more balanced structure). I'm now at $9.4m going into FA and the draft. I could get rid of Maclin and create another $10m. And I still have until 7/15 to get Poe done long term and reduce his cap hit. Prior to Poe and without my draft picks, I've committed less than $150m in 2018.

 

Will they do this? It's debatable. No one knows what actually happens. My point is that, if they want to keep them, they absolutely can. If it were up to me, I'd make Poe and Berry my first priorities, and figure out everything else. I want to keep my best players.

Yep. You don't let your best players entering their prime leave your organization if you can help it. They will have to make some tough choices but I see no reason to let them go when you have two guys that have passed their prime on premium contracts that are coming off multiple serious injuries in Derrick Johnson and Jamal Charles and guys that are underperforming like Maclin who is getting out played by a 6th rd draft pick. They draft well. You replace the ones you cut in the draft....gety younger and keep your franchise players. We'd have a better chance of picking up Johnson or Charles if we thought they had something left in the tank on a prove it deal from Ballard who knows them best then Berry/Poe....maybe we should be talking Charles/Johnson two guys that have been elite and fit needs on this team and might have something to play for. (Prove they still belong)

[Mameluc]

19 hours ago, Superman said:

 

No offense, but I don't think you've thought this through. 

 

I just spent five minutes on OTC getting the Chiefs to $30m+ in cap space, then keeping Berry and Poe. I cut Foles, Charles, and a June 1 release for Johnson (yes, Johnson is still okay, but would you keep him if it meant losing Berry or Poe?), restructured Houston to create $6m in cap space, restructured Smith to create $3.5m. 

 

I tagged Poe at $13.5m. Then I signed Berry at five years, $62.8m, with $40m guaranteed. This is just higher than Tyrann Mathieu's contract with a similar structure, and makes Berry the highest paid safety in the league. His 2017 cap hit is $9m (I could go as low as $5m in Year 1, but I like a more balanced structure). I'm now at $9.4m going into FA and the draft. I could get rid of Maclin and create another $10m. And I still have until 7/15 to get Poe done long term and reduce his cap hit. Prior to Poe and without my draft picks, I've committed less than $150m in 2018.

 

Will they do this? It's debatable. No one knows what actually happens. My point is that, if they want to keep them, they absolutely can. If it were up to me, I'd make Poe and Berry my first priorities, and figure out everything else. I want to keep my best players.

I wont pretend to watch a ton of KC games but from what i have read isnt Poe kinda going a bit downhill? Like injuries had made him kinda not so great slam dunk player? 

 

 

Anyways, im more of a Jonathan Hankins sign type of guy and he would be much cheaper

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Mameluc said:

I wont pretend to watch a ton of KC games but from what i have read isnt Poe kinda going a bit downhill? Like injuries had made him kinda not so great slam dunk player? 

 

 

Anyways, im more of a Jonathan Hankins sign type of guy and he would be much cheaper

I heard earlier that the Chiefs probably wont let Poe go anyway. Eric Berry is a different story.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Mameluc said:

I wont pretend to watch a ton of KC games but from what i have read isnt Poe kinda going a bit downhill? Like injuries had made him kinda not so great slam dunk player? 

 

Anyways, im more of a Jonathan Hankins sign type of guy and he would be much cheaper

 

I'm not that excited about Poe, personally, not at the kind of money he'll want. I felt the same way about Malik Jackson last year. My only point is that the Chiefs can keep him if they want.

 

I also like Hankins, but not at a premium cost.