Ballard Reportedly Prefers Dave Taub as Head Coach

[dw49]

19 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Yeah, no big deal.

 

After I saw Paganos statemnt about Ballard being hired, I think he actually will be retained. 

 

Looks that way. Maybe with Luck recovering from shoulder injury , Irsay figured best to keep the present staff in tact ?

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

What if the Colts current OL stay in tact and Luck does not see pressure all of 2017  and they win 75% of their games what does the new GM say to that?

 

If he likes what he sees,  then I'd expect Ballard to say that Chuck Pagano has two more years on his contract and we'll be bringing him back in 2018.       I don't know if he'd commit to 2019,  might depend on how far we go in the playoffs,   hard to say.

 

But if we have a terrific year,   and 12-4 is a very good year,  then I'd expect Pagano to be brought back.    But let's be honest here,  12-4 is highly unlikely.

 

 

[GoColts8818]

46 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

If he likes what he sees,  then I'd expect Ballard to say that Chuck Pagano has two more years on his contract and we'll be bringing him back in 2018.       I don't know if he'd commit to 2019,  might depend on how far we go in the playoffs,   hard to say.

 

But if we have a terrific year,   and 12-4 is a very good year,  then I'd expect Pagano to be brought back.    But let's be honest here,  12-4 is highly unlikely.

 

 

I think if Pagano gets to the playoffs with double digit wins and the team doesn't get embarrassed in its first game he will be back.  Less than double digit wins would probably take a playoff win or two if they get to the playoffs.  Anything less he's out IMO.

[NewColtsFan]

52 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think if Pagano gets to the playoffs with double digit wins and the team doesn't get embarrassed in its first game he will be back.  Less than double digit wins would probably take a playoff win or two if they get to the playoffs.  Anything less he's out IMO.

 

I've written mostly the same thing in a variety of posts,  so I think we are mostly in agreement.

 

[backshoulderfade]

While I am not nessassarily a fan of Pagano, it makes sense to keep his staff intact. Schottenhiemer seems to be doing good work with Luck. While I am not a fan of what  Chudzinski did last year, we have seen he can be a good OC. Hopefully Philbin starts to pay off.

[IndyD4U]

Why not just bring Taub on staff this year if he's that desired and that good. That would be my approach.... Outside of McAfee's punting skills we haven't exactly been awesome on St. How many times did we give the opponents a touch back because we couldn't down a punt? 

[VocableLoki]

21 minutes ago, IndyD4U said:

Why not just bring Taub on staff this year if he's that desired and that good. That would be my approach.... Outside of McAfee's punting skills we haven't exactly been awesome on St. How many times did we give the opponents a touch back because we couldn't down a punt? 

Too many

[SaturdayAllDay]

24 minutes ago, IndyD4U said:

Why not just bring Taub on staff this year if he's that desired and that good. That would be my approach.... Outside of McAfee's punting skills we haven't exactly been awesome on St. How many times did we give the opponents a touch back because we couldn't down a punt? 

Because hes on contract with KC and they wont void his contract for a lateral move (coordinator to coordinator). If he came here for a promotion it would be different. 

[IndyD4U]

10 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

Because hes on contract with KC and they wont void his contract for a lateral move (coordinator to coordinator). If he came here for a promotion it would be different. 

Thanks. I was unaware that's how that worked 

[jszfunk]

Where did this report come from? Do you think the incoming GM would say something like that knowing that Chuck is going to be the coach for 2017.  I doubt it.

[coltsfeva]

Bringing in a whole new coaching staff would be a mistake IMO. It's not just trading one coach for another but a whole new philosophy, terminology and process of developing new relationships between coaches and players. Disruptive to say the least. Given Irsay's commitment to keeping Chuck for 2017 and emphasis on continuity, I would be shocked if retaining the current coaching staff wasn't a condition in Ballard's contract, either written or understood.

[chrisfarley]

16 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

Bringing in a whole new coaching staff would be a mistake IMO. It's not just trading one coach for another but a whole new philosophy, terminology and process of developing new relationships between coaches and players. Disruptive to say the least. Given Irsay's commitment to keeping Chuck for 2017 and emphasis on continuity, I would be shocked if retaining the current coaching staff wasn't a condition in Ballard's contract, either written or understood.

that's generally what you do, you bring in a new GM and bring in new philosophies, terminology, coaches, and a fresh new look altogether, especially knowing the current staff were inept OC, DC, Head-Coach.  OC was the best of the three, barely.  So I was shocked when they didn't do that, along with many others.  Yes, it's disruptive, but is that why Irsay did it? To not be disruptive?  No, he did it because of his loyalty to Pagano and thinks that the "un-tie"  is the answer.... and it very well could be.  But the pressure.

 

[coltsfeva]

10 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

that's generally what you do, you bring in a new GM and bring in new philosophies, terminology, coaches, and a fresh new look altogether, especially knowing the current staff were inept OC, DC, Head-Coach.  OC was the best of the three, barely.  So I was shocked when they didn't do that, along with many others.  Yes, it's disruptive, but is that why Irsay did it? To not be disruptive?  No, he did it because of his loyalty to Pagano and thinks that the "un-tie"  is the answer.... and it very well could be.  But the pressure.

 

There may be a time when a complete change may be the wisest thing to do. Giving Pagano some pieces on defense and seeing what happens this year is worth the risk IMO. You say Pagano, Machiano and Chud are inept. I disagree & so does Irsay, who's opinion matters the most.

[masterlock]

Well, now that the hiring of Ballard is a done deal, I think I agree with Bob Kravitz' take on the coaching situation.

He wrote:

"My thought is this: If Ballard wants Toub, give him Toub and part ways with Pagano. If he believes Toub will be the next John Harbaugh, himself a former special teams coach, it makes absolutely no sense to waste a year while Pagano operates as a lame-duck coach (yet again). The notion of giving Pagano one more year to prove himself is nonsensical on its face. Either he’s the guy or he isn’t; you can’t be half-pregnant."

 

[SaturdayAllDay]

21 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

that's generally what you do, you bring in a new GM and bring in new philosophies, terminology, coaches, and a fresh new look altogether, especially knowing the current staff were inept OC, DC, Head-Coach.  OC was the best of the three, barely.  So I was shocked when they didn't do that, along with many others.  Yes, it's disruptive, but is that why Irsay did it? To not be disruptive?  No, he did it because of his loyalty to Pagano and thinks that the "un-tie"  is the answer.... and it very well could be.  But the pressure.

 

I think its a timing issue tbh. Irsay made a play for a better coach and didnt get him. Then turned over to a gm search. He could do a head coach search now and still come away with a good hire, but that coach isnt going to have his pick of the litter when it comes to his coordinators and position coaches. Plus any HC on the radar now will be around next off-season.  We miss out on zero head coach choices by not signing a coach now (other than shanahan, but its a pipe dream that we could just up and pry him from a deal pretty much set in stone )

 

If im irsay i stick with the status quo for one more year simply because a good head coach would want better coaches around him next yr anyways. he just hired a whole new staff last, then why do it again now only to do it again next yr. Especially if you are paying out contracts for them past when they are let go. 

[Tsarquise]

2 minutes ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

I think its a timing issue tbh. Irsay made a play for a better coach and didnt get him. Then turned over to a gm search. He could do a head coach search now and still come away with a good hire, but that coach isnt going to have his pick of the litter when it comes to his coordinators and position coaches. Plus any HC on the radar now will be around next off-season.  We miss out on zero head coach choices by not signing a coach now (other than shanahan, but its a pipe dream that we could just up and pry him from a deal pretty much set in stone )

 

If im irsay i stick with the status quo for one more year simply because a good head coach would want better coaches around him next yr anyways. he just hired a whole new staff last, then why do it again now only to do it again next yr. Especially if you are paying out contracts for them past when they are let go. 

This makes sense. 

[SaturdayAllDay]

10 minutes ago, masterlock said:

Well, now that the hiring of Ballard is a done deal, I think I agree with Bob Kravitz' take on the coaching situation.

He wrote:

"My thought is this: If Ballard wants Toub, give him Toub and part ways with Pagano. If he believes Toub will be the next John Harbaugh, himself a former special teams coach, it makes absolutely no sense to waste a year while Pagano operates as a lame-duck coach (yet again). The notion of giving Pagano one more year to prove himself is nonsensical on its face. Either he’s the guy or he isn’t; you can’t be half-pregnant."

 

Who do you bring in for OC/DC at this point though?? Hed be a first time head coach with zero experience running an offense OR a defense, let alone being in charge of the whole teams gameplan. Toub needs a good staff around him to give him the best shot to succeed. Id rather wait til we are in a position to give it to him. If chuck has proven anything its that you need good game plans to succeed. We cant just go on "grit" anymore. 

[chrisfarley]

44 minutes ago, coltsfeva said:

There may be a time when a complete change may be the wisest thing to do. Giving Pagano some pieces on defense and seeing what happens this year is worth the risk IMO. You say Pagano, Machiano and Chud are inept. I disagree & so does Irsay, who's opinion matters the most.

yes, it not only matters the most, right now it's all that matters, up until, Ballard says otherwise.

[ManningGM]

1 hour ago, coltsfeva said:

There may be a time when a complete change may be the wisest thing to do. Giving Pagano some pieces on defense and seeing what happens this year is worth the risk IMO. You say Pagano, Machiano and Chud are inept. I disagree & so does Irsay, who's opinion matters the most.

Dat memory loss.

 

All good, Pagano and his coaching staff will refresh it. 

[coltsva]

So why can't we hire Toub as HC, bring in who he and Ballard want as DC, and keep Chud, Philbin and Schottenheimer on the offensive side?  

[chrisfarley]

31 minutes ago, coltsva said:

So why can't we hire Toub as HC, bring in who he and Ballard want as DC, and keep Chud, Philbin and Schottenheimer on the offensive side?  

It could have been done (or another coach)... but Irsay is stubborn.  I have a feeling that Irsay is going to have Chucky at the Ballard presser sitting right next to him to make everything  seem warm and fuzzy and Pagano will re-iterate that he will be working "along-side" Chris Ballard (as opposed to for him) and how excited he is, blah, blah, blah......  The inevitable kum-ba-yah press conference. I get it..... they have to do it this way, I'm just venting at Pagano still being here.....it will take me a few days or weeks for reality to truly sink in.  I've got to keep sticking to the process, put the blinders on......and i'll be good.

[Colts_Fan12]

Part of me just feels like Irsay didn't wanna can Pagano and Grigson both after the extensions and look like a fool and eat all that cash so he gonna wait til next year

[bababooey]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

If he likes what he sees,  then I'd expect Ballard to say that Chuck Pagano has two more years on his contract and we'll be bringing him back in 2018.       I don't know if he'd commit to 2019,  might depend on how far we go in the playoffs,   hard to say.

 

But if we have a terrific year,   and 12-4 is a very good year,  then I'd expect Pagano to be brought back.    But let's be honest here,  12-4 is highly unlikely.

 

 

highly unlikely, but playing a third place schedule helps him.

[Finball]

57 minutes ago, coltsva said:

So why can't we hire Toub as HC, bring in who he and Ballard want as DC, and keep Chud, Philbin and Schottenheimer on the offensive side?  

 

The guy Toub and Ballard want as a DC may be DC/position coach somewhere in the NFL and the team can simply deny permission for the Colts to speak to him.

[Fisticuffs111]

20 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Part of me just feels like Irsay didn't wanna can Pagano and Grigson both after the extensions and look like a fool and eat all that cash so he gonna wait til next year

Yeah, part of me thinks it could also be a smart strategy from Irsay to have a nice built in excuse if next year goes badly.

That's my cynicism coming out, at least.

[VocableLoki]

1 hour ago, ManningGM said:

Dat memory loss.

 

All good, Pagano and his coaching staff will refresh it. 

Yeah he totally forgot all those great pieces Pagano has worked with on defense. Like Vontae Davis and...um...

[King Colt]

Isn't Ballard a defense guy like Pagano?

[chrisfarley]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

Isn't Ballard a defense guy like Pagano?

there's no "d" in Pagano

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

4 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

there's no "d" in Pagano

Give him some guys and there will be a whole lotta DDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[MacDee1975]

11 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

Bringing in a whole new coaching staff would be a mistake IMO. It's not just trading one coach for another but a whole new philosophy, terminology and process of developing new relationships between coaches and players. Disruptive to say the least. Given Irsay's commitment to keeping Chuck for 2017 and emphasis on continuity, I would be shocked if retaining the current coaching staff wasn't a condition in Ballard's contract, either written or understood.

 

I think this is exactly what the doctor ordered.

[Jason_]

9 hours ago, Finball said:

 

The guy Toub and Ballard want as a DC may be DC/position coach somewhere in the NFL and the team can simply deny permission for the Colts to speak to him.

 

The only 2 teams that can still block interviews will be playing in the SB.  no other team can now that their offseasons have officially started....so long as the position they'd be interviewing for is a promotion.

 

9 hours ago, bababooey said:

highly unlikely, but playing a third place schedule helps him.

 

Well yeah, but only by 2 games. Granted that could be the difference between 10-6 and 12-4 but still, no telling what the other 2 3rd place teams will do in FA and the draft.

[Finball]

20 minutes ago, Jason_S said:

 

The only 2 teams that can still block interviews will be playing in the SB.  no other team can now that their offseasons have officially started....so long as the position they'd be interviewing for is a promotion.

 

 

Unless their desired DC is still unemployed or in college, it can be blocked since in the NFL all assistant coaches are considered the same, whether it's DC, assistant coach, DB coach, ST coach or whatever. position coach to DC isn't a promotion in a coaching hires from other teams.

 

 

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Finball said:

 

Unless their desired DC is still unemployed or in college, it can be blocked since in the NFL all assistant coaches are considered the same, whether it's DC, assistant coach, DB coach, ST coach or whatever. position coach to DC isn't a promotion in a coaching hires from other teams.

 

 

 

Thanks for the correction on that. I was not aware of that caveat to the rule.