"sources" Manning Is Not Progressing/more Than Likely Retire (Merge)

[chrisfarley]

his nerves are not regenerating yet. has atrophy in the tri's and parts of the lower shoulder. those two doctors in marina del ray said it would be a quicker healing process than this and established milestones, which Manning has NOT met. Doesn't look good everyone, sigh.....ugh.......drats.......stinks.

[Restored]

*This*

The journalistic laziness is astounding. "Reading between the lines" has slowly become investigative reporting.

One of the problems I've had with a lot of these recent reports is that they seem to be third hand conversations, without any delving or explanation into which the statements they're quoting arose.

I'm just left with more questions and wondering why the media personalities aren't at least skeptical sometimes. Tweeting, "Oh, I hope it isn't true" doesn't count

And they don't necessarily jive with the timeline of recent events. December 22nd, Stampede Blue reported Manning was throwing the ball to players, and SI's Will Carrol reported Manning's throwing was 85-90%. It was more about conditioning, not the nerve. But then a few days ago there was that story Irsay had been telling potential GM candidates in early January, just a few weeks after news Peyton's bone had healed and was throwing, that he'd decided to drop Manning and would officially announce it before the NFL Scouting Combine. It doesn't add up. And why reporters aren't scrutinizing a story like that more and treating gut reactions and heresay as fact is ridiculous.

No doubt they're anxious. And they're dealing with one of the most private qbs and cryptic owners in the NFL.

But there have been no emails attained. No secret footage of Peyton's work out sessions or him attempting to throw a deep ball. No word from Peyton's nuerosurgeon. No definite word from Manning himself. (And I think getting back into professional shape, let alone recovering from his type of surgery is frustrating enough).

ESPN, I know you so want #18 to play for the Jets, but can I ask for just a little bit more intelligence in your reporting?

Thank you God for having someone with a brain posting here!

[wercolts]

I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that King, Brandt and Clayton are doing anything more than stating opinions, unlike LaConfora who's considers Twitter a source "close to the team".

[MAC]

The article stated from my understanding and adding up all the weeks; Manning could be back on the field in 13 weeks (MAX). It's been a lot longer than 13 weeks. I recall many saying he would be back late in the season at some point and could play depending on the Colts record and if they were in the playoff hunt. Fast forward to today, its almost been 5 months.

When did he have the surgery? August? I think it's been over 5 months.

I believe it was the first week of September.

All of the early articles about his surgery were guesstimating the earliest date that sufficent fushion might have taken place to possibly envision a very agressive doctor tentatively condoning his returning to play. I never took them seriously. Full fushion takes a good year, and rushing back would have carried risk but very little reward. At BEST any thought of him returning last year was a wild-eyed fantasy, probably put out there either to keep the fans spirits up - or Peytons. And those articles typically ignored the nerve issue, which was obviously the long term concern anyway. It's extremely rare for fushions not to "take". I returned to my desk job in about 10 days. But tackle football in a matter of weeks? That's just nuts. If it wasn't for the ridiculous articles (and the unfortunate bonus), the only deadline that any of us would have been talking about since the day of the surgery would be the start of next years training camp.

Yes, there is good reason to be concerned that the nerve was permanently damaged, but that has nothing to do with those post-surgery predictions.

[JoKeR]

*This*

The journalistic laziness is astounding. "Reading between the lines" has slowly become investigative reporting.

One of the problems I've had with a lot of these recent reports is that they seem to be third hand conversations, without any delving or explanation into which the statements they're quoting arose.

I'm just left with more questions and wondering why the media personalities aren't at least skeptical sometimes. Tweeting, "Oh, I hope it isn't true" doesn't count

And they don't necessarily jive with the timeline of recent events. December 22nd, Stampede Blue reported Manning was throwing the ball to players, and SI's Will Carrol reported Manning's throwing was 85-90%. It was more about conditioning, not the nerve. But then a few days ago there was that story Irsay had been telling potential GM candidates in early January, just a few weeks after news Peyton's bone had healed and was throwing, that he'd decided to drop Manning and would officially announce it before the NFL Scouting Combine. It doesn't add up. And why reporters aren't scrutinizing a story like that more and treating gut reactions and heresay as fact is ridiculous.

No doubt they're anxious. And they're dealing with one of the most private qbs and cryptic owners in the NFL.

But there have been no emails attained. No secret footage of Peyton's work out sessions or him attempting to throw a deep ball. No word from Peyton's nuerosurgeon. No definite word from Manning himself. (And I think getting back into professional shape, let alone recovering from his type of surgery is frustrating enough).

ESPN, I know you so want #18 to play for the Jets, but can I ask for just a little bit more intelligence in your reporting?

Good points. To add to that, we should be more careful in how we title these threads. Im "reports surfacing, Manning more than likely will retire" is over dramatic and misleading. Then the article talks about Manning will be a Colt or more than likely retire according to so in so who says he knows so in so. I mean we already knew that PM playing for another team is the least likely of scenarios.

[JWF]

his nerves are not regenerating yet. has atrophy in the tri's and parts of the lower shoulder. those two doctors in marina del ray said it would be a quicker healing process than this and established milestones, which Manning has NOT met. Doesn't look good everyone, sigh.....ugh.......drats.......stinks.

I havnt seen anything official.

While it certainly doesnt look good right now no one really knows yet.

[deedub75]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-cole_peyton_manning_colts_neck_surgery_jim_irsay013012

Who are these mysterious sources? Apparently, two sources who are familiar with Manning's rehab are saying that he has hit a plateau and is no longer improving. As I always say, when there's smoke there's fire and with so many negative reports about Manning's recover, or lack thereof, there has to be some truth to it. No news about Manning's recovery is bad news. I anticipate a retirement announcement shortly after the Super Bowl as to not overshadow Eli.

[WSO]

Same old repetitive posts incoming. . .media putting a spin on it. . . unreliable source. . .its Peyton Manning he is immortal etc.

[Dustin]

two league-affiliated doctors with experience in spinal fusion surgery said it could take up to a year before Manning knows if he can return. Both said the risk is too great for Manning to play again and, because of the timeline, neither would recommend the Colts pay Manning the $28 million bonus he is owed in March.

[DILLIGAFER]

Same old repetitive posts incoming. . .media putting a spin on it. . . unreliable source. . .its Peyton Manning he is immortal etc.

Oh wait.. and luck IS a college qb and not even a colt yet..

[WSO]

Oh wait.. and luck IS a college qb and not even a colt yet..

Yes. And your point? Can I not be a fan of Andrew Luck even if he isn't a Colt? I've said many times if the Colts take RG3 or keep Manning either way I'll support them.

[CCH]

It's not looking good at this point.

[DILLIGAFER]

Yes. And your point? Can I not be a fan of Andrew Luck even if he isn't a Colt? I've said many times if the Colts take RG3 or keep Manning either way I'll support them.

Really? Thats the best argument you can make? That was weak. He is your avatar in a colts jersey and your screen name.. thats my point.

[wercolts]

ESPN's Mort Anderson seems to have heard the opposite. Says Peyton is throwing/working hard every day and expects him to play again. He was rightly annoyed at the suggestion Peyton faces an increased risk of injury and said 1 year from the 2nd surgery is the real benchmark to see if the nerve is regenerated.

[WSO]

Really? Thats the best argument you can make? That was weak. He is your avatar in a colts jersey and your screen name.. thats my point.

Possibly because he has a pretty good shot of being a Colt this season. That is why.

[deedub75]

ESPN's Mort Anderson seems to have heard the opposite. Says Peyton is throwing/working hard every day and expects him to play again. He was rightly annoyed at the suggestion Peyton faces an increased risk of injury and said 1 year from the 2nd surgery is the real benchmark to see if the nerve is regenerated.

He may be working hard and throwing but is he regaining any of the velocity and accuracy is the question. I sure hope he is.

[ThatOneColtFan]

I still think Manning will recover. Whether he'll be with us I cannot say(I doubt it though), but I don't really believe anything these so called "sources" will say.

[GoColts8818]

Oh wait.. and luck IS a college qb and not even a colt yet..

Like him or not the dude pretty much nailed what the people who don't like these reports are going to say.

[wercolts]

Mort said he thinks the nerve regenerates at something like 1 milometer per month but wasn't sure of the exact measurement. It's all about the nerve, it it heals like just about every other player that had the surgery he'll be good to go before camp.

[jvan1973]

ESPN's Mort Anderson seems to have heard the opposite. Says Peyton is throwing/working hard every day and expects him to play again. He was rightly annoyed at the suggestion Peyton faces an increased risk of injury and said 1 year from the 2nd surgery is the real benchmark to see if the nerve is regenerated.

Mort Anderson works for ESPN?? Or were you talking about Chris Mortensen..

[Smitto]

It all matters on who you believe i think, one guy claims he got his source from close or inside the family and another says from inside the colts FO... Feb is gonna be one interesting month thats for sure.

[UndecidedFrog]

It all matters on who you believe i think, one guy claims he got his source from close or inside the family and another says from inside the colts FO... Feb is gonna be one interesting month thats for sure.

I think early March would be even more interesting.

Some people will be doing the :foot:

[torgodog]

Okay, first, concerning the title of Jason Coles' article: "Sources Fearful over Manning's Ability to Return" He does have a flair for the dramatic, doesn't he? But I bet he's getting those internet hits. But seriously "fearful sources"? I imagine these guys running around the Colts complex like little girls in a haunted house while Manning tries to get back into shape.

("Will you stop screaming! I'm just throwing a football!")

But seriously, he's only been throwing for slightly over a month. Sounds like Peyton might be putting too much pressure on himself, expecting and demanding the high end part of his passing game too soon. That could be where all the rumors about frustration are coming from. I know he's got an eye on that March 8th date, but he should give himself another month to see if he's really plateau-ing.

I wish these fearful sources gave some indication at what level he's supposedly plateau-ed. And although this latest doctor-who-has-not-seen-Peyton's-medical-chart gave a better educated guess than most, recovery still seems a matter of "when" not "if".

[deedub75]

Okay, first, concerning the title of Jason Coles' article: "Sources Fearful over Manning's Ability to Return" He does have a flair for the dramatic, doesn't he? But I bet he's getting those internet hits. But seriously "fearful sources"? I imagine these guys running around the Colts complex like little girls in a haunted house while Manning tries to get back into shape.

("Will you stop screaming! I'm just throwing a football!")

But seriously, he's only been throwing for slightly over a month. Sounds like Peyton might be putting too much pressure on himself, expecting and demanding the high end part of his passing game too soon. That could be where all the rumors about frustration are coming from. I know he's got an eye on that March 8th date, but he should give himself another month to see if he's really plateau-ing.

I wish these fearful sources gave some indication at what level he's supposedly plateau-ed. And although this latest doctor-who-has-not-seen-Peyton's-medical-chart gave a better educated guess than most, recovery still seems a matter of "when" not "if".

He pretty much has to push himself because of the March 8th date. Maybe Peyton and his agent shouldn't have written the contract up that way.

[Smitto]

I think early March would be even more interesting.

Some people will be doing the :foot:

Feb and April will be the hott months... its weird how the colts all of a sudden became the dallas cowboys by having a 2-14 season.. i think by late Feb we all should know what peytons fate will be, i doubt the colts will wait all the way to early march.

[UndecidedFrog]

Sounds like Peyton might be putting too much pressure on himself, expecting and demanding the high end part of his passing game too soon. That could be where all the rumors about frustration are coming from. I know he's got an eye on that March 8th date, but he should give himself another month to see if he's really plateau-ing.

I wish these fearful sources gave some indication at what level he's supposedly plateau-ed. And although this latest doctor-who-has-not-seen-Peyton's-medical-chart gave a better educated guess than most, recovery still seems a matter of "when" not "if".

He pretty much has to push himself because of the March 8th date. Maybe Peyton and his agent shouldn't have written the contract up that way.

If you are both right, Peyton should have no problems agreeing to push that March 8 option date back a month. In fact, he should suggest it to Irsay. However, I think Condon will convince him not to.

[The Fish]

It's not looking good at this point.

To be fair it hasn't been looking good from last may when Peyton had surgery 2 (that was the start of this). But when Jax week 17 went and won for no good reason ... They gave the franchise a chance post Peyton... How fortunate ( I didn't say "lucky")

[presto123]

ESPN's Mort Anderson seems to have heard the opposite. Says Peyton is throwing/working hard every day and expects him to play again. He was rightly annoyed at the suggestion Peyton faces an increased risk of injury and said 1 year from the 2nd surgery is the real benchmark to see if the nerve is regenerated.

I watched Chris Mortensen today. He did say that recovery is possible way down the road but he also said( they all did) that he fully expects the Colts to release Manning come March 8.

[nsurg]

While it's true that a patient's maximum strength improvement in recovery probably stops around a year, I usually see patients reach at least 80% by six months (and usually much earlier) with a pretty clear improvement pace established after just a few months. Furthermore, let's not forget that--unfortunately--the nerve injury occurred probably last april, not august; and by august he was not doing well.

It makes me sick that manning might go out like this, but can anybody think of a single reason that positive news would be suppressed at this time? If he were getting better in a meaningful way he'd show it off for 3 reasons:

1)he is competitive and wants to play regardless of luck getting picked

2)he maintains his dominance over a team that he is unhappy to see changing... this is clearly driving him nuts, and the whole country knows that he can take over the team if he can play football.

3)his trade value remains high

I can say that the "2 doctors" claims that the "risk is too great for him to return" is an absolute load of bullcrap. Neurosurgical cervical guidelines allow a one level fusion to return to play with no restrictions unless cord injury exists (which it doesn't). Even a two level fusion can occasionally play, but that is a judgement call. I can pretty much guarantee that he will both be allowed to play and safe to play--I have no idea if he will be capable of playing, though.

Sorry.

Is there any possible situation where he could be doing well and still keep quiet about it?

[WoolMagnet]

If you are both right, Peyton should have no problems agreeing to push that March 8 option date back a month. In fact, he should suggest it to Irsay. However, I think Condon will convince him not to.

Exactly.

Who has the most to lose by pushing the deadline back?

Manning and Condon.

The deadline does several things:

1: eliminates ANY possibility of a trade

2: gets Manning in a bidding war BEFORE the draft (when teams can get QBs)

3: gets manning in bidding war BEFORE teams can trade for another QB (increasing manning's "value")

keeping the deadline intact DOES NOT help the Colts.

[WoolMagnet]

While it's true that a patient's maximum strength improvement in recovery probably stops around a year, I usually see patients reach at least 80% by six months (and usually much earlier) with a pretty clear improvement pace established after just a few months. Furthermore, let's not forget that--unfortunately--the nerve injury occurred probably last april, not august; and by august he was not doing well.

It makes me sick that manning might go out like this, but can anybody think of a single reason that positive news would be suppressed at this time? If he were getting better in a meaningful way he'd show it off for 3 reasons:

1)he is competitive and wants to play regardless of luck getting picked

2)he maintains his dominance over a team that he is unhappy to see changing... this is clearly driving him nuts, and the whole country knows that he can take over the team if he can play football.

3)his trade value remains high

I can say that the "2 doctors" claims that the "risk is too great for him to return" is an absolute load of bullcrap. Neurosurgical cervical guidelines allow a one level fusion to return to play with no restrictions unless cord injury exists (which it doesn't). Even a two level fusion can occasionally play, but that is a judgement call. I can pretty much guarantee that he will both be allowed to play and safe to play--I have no idea if he will be capable of playing, though.

Sorry.

Is there any possible situation where he could be doing well and still keep quiet about it?

I'm no doctor (except "weekend" gyno) , and I haven't stayed at a Holiday Express recently, but I agree with pretty much everything you've stated. (rationally, I might add)

Also, the statement you made that I hi-lighted pretty much sums up the whole "argument" of his health. There is NO reason to keep it quiet unless he wants out of Indy. But that still decreases his "value" to the rest of the league. it just makes no sense to keep things quiet. The fact that there has been really NO info from HIS camp i think says ALOT. unfortunately.

[presto123]

While it's true that a patient's maximum strength improvement in recovery probably stops around a year, I usually see patients reach at least 80% by six months (and usually much earlier) with a pretty clear improvement pace established after just a few months. Furthermore, let's not forget that--unfortunately--the nerve injury occurred probably last april, not august; and by august he was not doing well.

It makes me sick that manning might go out like this, but can anybody think of a single reason that positive news would be suppressed at this time? If he were getting better in a meaningful way he'd show it off for 3 reasons:

1)he is competitive and wants to play regardless of luck getting picked

2)he maintains his dominance over a team that he is unhappy to see changing... this is clearly driving him nuts, and the whole country knows that he can take over the team if he can play football.

3)his trade value remains high

I can say that the "2 doctors" claims that the "risk is too great for him to return" is an absolute load of bullcrap. Neurosurgical cervical guidelines allow a one level fusion to return to play with no restrictions unless cord injury exists (which it doesn't). Even a two level fusion can occasionally play, but that is a judgement call. I can pretty much guarantee that he will both be allowed to play and safe to play--I have no idea if he will be capable of playing, though.

Sorry.

Is there any possible situation where he could be doing well and still keep quiet about it?

I don't think so. That's what I've said all along. If he were getting even close to 100% or at least having zip on the ball he would be shouting from the rooftops" I will be back".

[nsurg]

I guess in the grand scheme of things, it's important to keep things in perspective... I frequently see regular people who have this happen and then lose their $35k construction jobs and then struggle to pay medical bills. And hey, he doesn't have a tumor. If manning cannot return to the field as a player he will still have most of the teams in the league trying to hire him for one reason or another for his analysis, or he could write his own contract for any TV agency...

But it's still very disappointing.

[torgodog]

If you are both right, Peyton should have no problems agreeing to push that March 8 option date back a month. In fact, he should suggest it to Irsay. However, I think Condon will convince him not to.

I don't know about that. I agree that the money other teams would be willing to offer Manning could make the dollar signs go ka-ching in Condon's eyeballs. There's also all the media attention he'd garner for his client and himself. He could make a strong case for the financial rewards of being a free agent.

Yet Manning has stated many times he's wanted to remain a Colt and his strong connection to the Indianapolis community and the Colts organization. True, star quarterbacks have moved onto to other teams. Yet most star qbs aren't the son of another star quarterback. Peyton has grown up seeing his father's connection to New Orleans. That bond with the community and his legacy with Indianapolis could be a factor in his decision making process. I think it's more than money with Peyton, though I'm not saying the man doesn't like money.

But I believe Peyton and Irsay could work something out. It's not impossible.

[UndecidedFrog]

I don't know about that. I agree that the money other teams would be willing to offer Manning could make the dollar signs go ka-ching in Condon's eyeballs. There's also all the media attention he'd garner for his client and himself. He could make a strong case for the financial rewards of being a free agent.

Yet Manning has stated many times he's wanted to remain a Colt and his strong connection to the Indianapolis community and the Colts organization. True, star quarterbacks have moved onto to other teams. Yet most star qbs aren't the son of another star quarterback. Peyton has grown up seeing his father's connection to New Orleans. That bond with the community and his legacy with Indianapolis could be a factor in his decision making process. I think it's more than money with Peyton, though I'm not saying the man doesn't like money.

But I believe Peyton and Irsay could work something out. It's not impossible.

Then we shall see who wins out by what happens, what we believe of Condon or what you believe of Peyton.

[Happy2BeHere]

I choose to be null on the subject... I can't change what will happen so until it goes one way or the other (officially) ill keep snickering at most of these posts ;)

[mouthofsouth]

Doesn't everybody realize that things are playing out the way they are so that the movie script, when it comes out, will have some really touching and exciting story lines?

The movie, made about five years from now, will be named MANNING, about Archie and the 3 Manning boys. Archie, hero at Ole Miss, does not work out in the pros, going to a perennially sorry team, the Saints. His dream is his 3 sons will succeed where he did not. Cooper, the oldest is diagnosed with a spinal problem and has to give up his dream playing receiver at Ole Miss catching his brother's passes. Peyton is heart-broken and refuses to go to Ole Miss, choosing Tennessee instead. He achieves greatness, and goes on to further greatness in the pros with the Colts. Eli, the youngest brother is drafted by the Giants and goes on to gradually become an elite qb himself. The Mannings are revered as the first family of football. Peyton and Eli win consecutive Super Bowls. Then Peyton has neck surgeries and has to sit out a year. Everybody predicts his retirement from football. He loses his position with the Colts and a qb is drafted to replace him. In the meantime, brother Eli has won his second Super Bowl to Peyton's one. Everyone says Eli has eclipsed him. Peyton gets well just in time and re-signs with the Colts just before the season starts. He wins the job back from the rookie qb. His first year back he carries his team to and wins the Super Bowl in his hometown of New Orleans, winning MVP of both the NFL and Super Bowl with his heroics. At the end of the game all the Mannings, including Peyton's two year old twins, rush out on the field to hug him and watch him raise the Lombardi, tears of joy streaming down all their faces.

The Miracle Mannings have done it! Two elite qbs, brothers, win consecutive Super Bowls not once, but TWICE!

A major hit song will be written for the movie and Peyton and Eli will play themselves. No one will mind that they are closer to forty than to twenty playing kids right out of college. Peyton will win an academy award and be touted as a future star of action movies.

[Warhorse]

You know, I wouldn't be surprised that with the way the media and some of the fans are already counting him out.......that he beats the odds, comes back a year late and wins 2 SB's with another team just to show them. Can't say they wouldn't deserve it.

[bayareacoltsfan]

I don't think so. That's what I've said all along. If he were getting even close to 100% or at least having zip on the ball he would be shouting from the rooftops" I will be back".

Adam V on NFL live said he believes Manning will be playing for sure next year whether with the Colts or not. He says Peyton has been busting his butt to get ready for next season.

Would be really sad to see Peyton forced to retire due to injuries .. its been a great joy watching him play .. wouldn't mind seeing him in another jersey with a chance to win another ring (as long as his health permits it).

[presto123]

Adam V on NFL live said he believes Manning will be playing for sure next year whether with the Colts or not. He says Peyton has been busting his butt to get ready for next season.

Would be really sad to see Peyton forced to retire due to injuries .. its been a great joy watching him play .. wouldn't mind seeing him in another jersey with a chance to win another ring (as long as his health permits it).

I hope he doesn't retire believe me. I'm pulling for him as much as anybody. I'm just going by the signs. The Colts are kind of in a corner that will make it hard to keep him here if he's not healthy soon. Hopefully they can work something out to give him more rehab time but I don't know what it would be because they almost Have to take Luck as a safety net at this point. It would be hard to watch Peyton play in another uniform but you can bet I would be rooting for him.

It was good seeing Adam V. on NFL live!