national anthem

[Jules]

3 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

 

I've read his girlfriend/fiance is an organizer for Black Lives Matter.  Women have power over men.....

 

I was wondering how long it would take for someone on this forum to blame his girlfriend eventually.

 

[jimmy g]

50 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

To be honest I dont get why we have to play it before games     Has nothing to do with the game.  No need for it IMO

Baseball clubs started doing it as a sense of Civic Pride in the 1890s. By WWII, MLB made it a requirement for games. It became an American Tradition and other sports accepted it.

[jimmy g]

1 minute ago, Jules said:

 

I was wondering how long it would take for someone on this forum to blame his girlfriend eventually.

 

If its true, its true. Kap doesn't communicate with me, so I only know what's been reported.  

 

He backed himself into a corner by saying he will do it until there is a change. Many of the things Black Lives Matter organized over were lies and misrepresentations. So there can be no changes, since they didn't happen.  No one can win this situation. Not on this generation, at least...

[CheezyColt]

4 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

By one player doing it, he is reflecting his opinion as being acceptable and of the Team, the Owner, and the Management to the audience. So one player is doing exactly what you just lectured not to do. Sports are Teams. All or none in a common goal.  If he wants to show a protest, take out an ad, write an op-ed, buy a commercial, schedule a TV interview, or anything individually. He may or not mean to be, but he's distracting from the Team Goal of winning games.

 

 

I've read his girlfriend/fiance is an organizer for Black Lives Matter.  Women have power over men.....

Lol, are you serious?  So because others might agree with him he should shut his mouth and be a "good soldier" as it were? Sports are teams.... cool. He's an athlete that plays a sport. The sport is his platform. He, as an individual, did not stand as his own personal protest. He didn't say "Oh! Watch me during the national anthem if you want something to report on." The whole "athletes should stay in their lane" mantra you're spewing is somehow suggesting that sports are some sort of sacred holy field where individuals rights are no longer valid.

 

And nice job on blaming the entire controversy on the power of the almighty V. Classy. Smh.

[jimmy g]

2 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

Lol, are you serious?  So because others might agree with him he should shut his mouth and be a "good soldier" as it were? Sports are teams.... cool. He's an athlete that plays a sport. The sport is his platform. He, as an individual, did not stand as his own personal protest. He didn't say "Oh! Watch me during the national anthem if you want something to report on." The whole "athletes should stay in their lane" mantra you're spewing is somehow suggesting that sports are some sort of sacred holy field where individuals rights are no longer valid.

 

And nice job on blaming the entire controversy on the power of the almighty V. Classy. Smh.

Who is almighty V?  I have no idea what your saying??????

 

I gave an opinion of ways he could protest and not effect the team that I hope he wants to win.  If he wants to make political statements he needs to go into politics

[rock8591]

Have any of you ever of a time when much more with with which put not, vicariously speaking?

[Buck Showalter]

10 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

Who is almighty V?  I have no idea what your saying??????

 

I gave an opinion of ways he could protest and not effect the team that I hope he wants to win.  If he wants to make political statements he needs to go into politics

Wouldn't one say that the issues Kaep is calling attention to, more directly fall under an umbrella of social commentary rather than "politics"??? 

[CheezyColt]

6 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

Who is almighty V?  I have no idea what your saying??????

 

I gave an opinion of ways he could protest and not effect the team that I hope he wants to win.  If he wants to make political statements he needs to go into politics

Im pretty sure he said he plans to once his football career is over. But the idea that he can't stand up to injustice because he's a football player is flat out ridiculous. 

 

Do i really need to explain to you what I mean by the almighty V after you inferred he's only doing this because of his girlfriend and the power women have over men?

[Solon]

1 hour ago, CheezyColt said:

I love when people tell other people what something should represent to them. Newsflash: we don't all experience life the same. It's a simple peaceful protest that people are losing their minds over. I imagine the flag, national anthem, and America in general represent something different to an African American born and raised in a project who has seen friends or family attacked or killed for something they were given no choice over, (the color of their skin) than it does to me. Who the hell is anyone to tell another person what something should represent to that person? Asinine. 

Hit the nail right on the head. 

[superrep1967]

2 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

 

Actaully I think the owner can tell his players that they cannot do that.    They are being paid and this is part of the game.

 

What happens if someone in the military decided they want to side with Kap     and refuse to salute the flag?

 

 

 

I never understood this. I mean what's the flag and the anthem got to do with all the injustices in this country at present time. I mean the anthem and the flag are about people who died for this country. They need a history lesson. But I do agree they can do what they want it's there right. I just question their motive. 

[superrep1967]

1 hour ago, jimmy g said:

By one player doing it, he is reflecting his opinion as being acceptable and of the Team, the Owner, and the Management to the audience. So one player is doing exactly what you just lectured not to do. Sports are Teams. All or none in a common goal.  If he wants to show a protest, take out an ad, write an op-ed, buy a commercial, schedule a TV interview, or anything individually. He may or not mean to be, but he's distracting from the Team Goal of winning games.

 

 

I've read his girlfriend/fiance is an organizer for Black Lives Matter.  Women have power over men.....

It is a women's world now like it or not. 

[BOTT]

3 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

It is a women's world now like it or not. 

Ok Oprah

[IrishColt22]

From the outside looking in I really really don't understand the problem. so what he sat down or took a knee. some of you have said you take pride in what the flag and the song stand for great that your choice he obviously doesn't so why should he conform to something that grieves him or makes him uncomfortable. When i'm at a Ireland V England rugby game i stand for my countries song and sometimes sit during god save the queen. It's nothing against English ppl have many friends and cousins there good people and I even like going on holiday to visit them there. but their song and flag represent 750+ years of discrimination, genocide, theft, abuse, murder and slave labour for my country and that is something i don't and probably never will acknowledge. and ppl have said to me that's in the past but that past is what has defined and shaped the present it is what our current society is built on the good and the bad. If you disagree with what now seems more and more players are doing that's fine but that is there choice and belief's them kneeling is not killing anyone so just leave them do it. if its meaningless then it will peter out and nothing will come of it. if there is more to it then there will be change (and those talking about giving money he might give a few million to help social injustice but the only thing the papers will read would be how much he gave not the idea with him simply sitting down he has created a massive national and international debate and that is worth more than a couple of million to a cause) .... so again i say i really really don't understand the problem......

This is just my thoughts on the matter how this resolves itself one way or another will have little to no effect on me. but it is an important debate and happening in the world today and just wanted to give my two cents is all. 
Looking forward to Sunday, hope ye have a great weekend. Peace out. 

[CanuckColtsFan]

The fact this thread exists gives credence to what Kaep is doing; Non violent protest on a national stage. Good for him. He's given another voice to a movement that needs to find more avenues to express itself. If you think about the fact that my father lived in a time when segregation was considered acceptable in some states. That's not too long ago. The changes came from people taking a stand. Up here in Canada we have a nasty track record for treatment of aboriginals. Our countries have a lot of work to do. Unless we are all equal the word means nothing, same for freedom. Have a conversation, keep an open mind, know that there are tons of people that feel that a change needs to happen. Political expression doesn't need to make sense it needs to make the news. 

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

 

Actaully I think the owner can tell his players that they cannot do that.    They are being paid and this is part of the game.

 

What happens if someone in the military decided they want to side with Kap     and refuse to salute the flag?

 

 

 

Are you serious? Where do you come up with this kind of stuff?

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

To be honest I dont get why we have to play it before games     Has nothing to do with the game.  No need for it IMO

The flag and showing your pride in being an American means different things to different people. I you don't have that pride in your country you are the one who makes that choice.

I was drafted and served my country because I am an American. I didn't burn no draft card. I didn't run off to Canada.

The flag represents this country all over the world. If you have no pride in that IMO you don't even know what pride is.

[GoColts8818]

5 hours ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

Well, you can try that, I guess, but it's their right to do it.

Whether we agree or not...they have a right to do it.

Exactly, I think it's in poor taste and the message that they are trying to send by doing it has been completely lost but frankly this is freedom.  That's part of what makes America great you have the right to do anything (within legal limits of course) even if others feel it's wrong.  

[GoColts8818]

4 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

 

Actaully I think the owner can tell his players that they cannot do that.    They are being paid and this is part of the game.

 

What happens if someone in the military decided they want to side with Kap     and refuse to salute the flag?

 

 

 

Well really the Owner can't.  I mean he can threaten them by saying don't do it or I will fine you or cut you but the player could still so it.  Then it comes down to what will the owner do if someone does it?  Do you really think Jim Irsay would release someone like Robert Mathis (not saying he won't stand for the record) if they didn't stand for the anthem?  If Irsay fined him for it I am sure the players union would get involved because the league has no rule saying you have to stand unlike the NBA and I can promise you Pagano isn't going to bench him for it.  

 

Not everything is equal.  So what the military would do if a personal didn't salute isn't really relative to this conversation because they have different rules and different people running them.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Like I have Posted, I don't get the point of sitting during the National Anthem. What are you accomplishing by doing that? You look a fool by doing that and childish in reality.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Like I have Posted, I don't get the point of sitting during the National Anthem. What are you accomplishing by doing that? You look a fool by doing that and childish in reality.

That's the point I was trying to raise, the message these players want to send has been completely lost.  If I were them I would take a step back and see if there is another way that they can send the message they want to send and have the attention be in that.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

That's the point I was trying to raise, the message these players want to send has been completely lost.  If I were them I would take a step back and see if there is another way that they can send the message they want to send and have the attention be in that.  

I agree. Sitting for the Anthem is accomplishing nothing. It makes one look silly if you ask me and just makes a lot of people be against you.

[LockeDown]

If Tony Dungy (someone widely respected) were leading BLM, He wouldn't use the tactics that are currently being employed.  They recently blocked the Memphis interstate/bridge for many hours while St. Jude kids were unable to get to their facilities.   It should be understandable if a lot of Americans do not take a shine to some of their methods.  The leadership is questionable and a lot us don't think they truly have African Americans best  interest at heart.  Kaps stunt  is a divisive action and will definitely not help in the end.  Some of you championing his cause, what matters most?  Results or Kap celebrating his right to do whatever he wants?

 

 

[VaAllDay757]

5 hours ago, Coltfreak said:

Actually this was discussed by the talking heads and the owner can make the players stand or they leave the field if they dont want to stand.

 

 

He can't make them stand what is he gonna do spank them? Lol

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Social injustice - Oppression  there are ways to bring attention to it go into the inner cities & speak out give your time & money & there are many news outlets that will give you time because of being a NFL player Kaepernick has a platform he can easily take advantage of, he can speak up tell the world your views have a town hall schedule a news conference that is fine you have the right if you feel that way bye all means share your views .

 

But IMO at a football game a team sport to draw attention to your self the way he has takes away from the team he becomes the story instead of the team until last December he had not spoke out or up on this subject but now he does , While he has the right to sit or take a knee his actions & words make me think hes a phoney . When you wear these socks you'v stepped over the line with police being shot & killed for doing there job & by the way every color of officer has died this year it seems to me to be about attention . 

 

 

 

The Black Lives Matter Movement  believes its okay to kill cops with there chants of Pigs in a blanket . While police are dying around the country protecting there right to protest .  All lives matter oppression comes in many colors black brown & white poor people feel it so to say Black Lives Matter is rascist just like the David Dukes & the KKK of the world these are things worthy of speaking out against .  

 

Kaepernick sitting is his right go for it I could care less IMO hes a joke he will be sitting alot but he knows nothing about oppression if he really wants to speak out he needs to quit sitting on the sidelines & go out into the community & put his self out where he can do some actual good what he is doing is worthless if he does'nt put his time in outside of football , I'v read he will donate money from his recent jersey sales a good first step but its a baby step its time to step beyond sitting , Try standing up for what you believe in  & be grateful you live in a country that gives you that right .

[Jared Jammer]

For anyone who wants to understand why Colin Kaepernick and the entire Black Lives Matter movement is a complete joke, I highly recommend searching YouTube for Ben Shapiro. I won't bore anyone with details, however, nearly all of their claims are not only not supported by evidence, but in many cases the exact opposite of what the evidence says. It's little more than politics under the guise of compassion, hence why they're so selective towards which black lives matter.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

9 minutes ago, Jared Jammer said:

For anyone who wants to understand why Colin Kaepernick and the entire Black Lives Matter movement is a complete joke, I highly recommend searching YouTube for Ben Shapiro. I won't bore anyone with details, however, nearly all of their claims are not only not supported by evidence, but in many cases the exact opposite of what the evidence says. It's little more than politics under the guise of compassion, hence why they're so selective towards which black lives matter.

 

From BLM  entitled who we are .

 

Quote

Our team grew through a very successfulBlack Lives Matter ride, led and designed by Patrisse Cullors and Darnell L. Moore, organized to support the movement that is growing in St. Louis, MO, after 18-year old Mike Brown was killed at the hands of Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson. We’ve hosted national conference calls focused on issues of critical importance to Black people working hard for the liberation of our people.  We’ve connected people across the country working to end the various forms of injustice impacting our people.  We’ve created space for the celebration and humanization of Black lives.

 

 

They use Ferguson as a rallying cry to fire people up  although it was bogus & proven to be false it ruined the officers life & put a target on his back as well as on the backs of men in blue across the nation & the citizens torched & destroyed there own city thats called anarchy in my book they divide the country with there statements & actions . Martin Luther King  believed in protest peaceful protest & he had a dream these people are a nightmare & help no one if Black Lives really mattered to them they would march on Chicago & protest the killings of black people by black people .

 

If Kaepernick really wants change start in the big cities stand up & speak out where it will really help .

[jskinnz]

41 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

From BLM  entitled who we are .

 

 

They use Ferguson as a rallying cry to fire people up  although it was bogus & proven to be false it ruined the officers life & put a target on his back as well as on the backs of men in blue across the nation & the citizens torched & destroyed there own city thats called anarchy in my book they divide the country with there statements & actions . Martin Luther King  believed in protest peaceful protest & he had a dream these people are a nightmare & help no one if Black Lives really mattered to them they would march on Chicago & protest the killings of black people by black people .

 

If Kaepernick really wants change start in the big cities stand up & speak out where it will really help .

 

I fully appreciate the passion that not standing for the anthem has stirred on both sides.  But I don't get this take on BLM at all.  It is a common theme from white America (of which I am one) asking where is he BLM movement with all the black on black crime.  But to me that misses the point.  The simple fact is there have been African-American citizens unnecessarily killed at the hands of those who are charged with protecting them and again, in my humble opinion, is what BLM is protesting and by extension, these players not standing for the anthem. I also fully appreciate how hard being a cop is and the split second decisions they have to make are seemingly impossible.  But I think looking at this from another perspective and try to understand what it means for African-Americans and realize that if it happens once it is one too many.

 

I am not trying to pick a fight here - just add my two cents to the discussion.  A huge problem with the US right now is that we have lost the ability to have a civil discourse.  We should be able to disagree without being so disagreeable. 

 

[jskinnz]

2 hours ago, LockeDown said:

If Tony Dungy (someone widely respected) were leading BLM, He wouldn't use the tactics that are currently being employed.  They recently blocked the Memphis interstate/bridge for many hours while St. Jude kids were unable to get to their facilities.   It should be understandable if a lot of Americans do not take a shine to some of their methods.  The leadership is questionable and a lot us don't think they truly have African Americans best  interest at heart.  Kaps stunt  is a divisive action and will definitely not help in the end.  Some of you championing his cause, what matters most?  Results or Kap celebrating his right to do whatever he wants?

 

 

 

I think the answer to your question is both.  He and the growing #'s who are making their feelings known are 100% in the right to express that by not standing for the anthem.  The discussion now is about that right but maybe if enough join the dialog can actually go from the act itself to what they are actually protesting. Results as you say would nice but it has to start somewhere and those don't come right away.  Maybe it never will - at least through this particular action.  But maybe it is a start?

[jimmy g]

I've said in my posts: Black Lives Matter was based on a Lie. Even the DOJ Civil Rights Division admitted that Michael Brown was not surrendering with his hands up. Witnesses and the Autopsy proved he was charging the cop to attack, and the shooting was justified.

 

I brought up Kap's Girlfriend, because he hadn't done this before, even during last season.  Were all the product of our environment- Something changed the Status Quo in his. He had to realize that a star kneeling for 16 games on camera would be found by the tv camera and discussed, so people saying he was simply silently doing this only for himself are nieve. 

 

We all surrender rights daily to speak out against something at work in order to keep peace and harmony of the working environment. IMO, which means nothing- he is a being a selfish  distraction to the team, and would have better served his cause protesting in a different forum.

[BertJones]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Like I have Posted, I don't get the point of sitting during the National Anthem. What are you accomplishing by doing that? You look a fool by doing that and childish in reality.

 

what's the point of standing for a song? I dont worship symbolism or sheets on poles.

National pride is a pointless ,meaningless thing. its a belief youve created in your head that doesnt even actually exist beyond you believing it does.

You may or may not believe in God. I know God does not care or consider it a sin to not stand for a national anthem. God does not care what flag/country you were born in.

Its people that actually get in peoples faces and take it personal that someone doesnt stand for a anthem that are the childish ones. 

your viewpoint is a Orwellian viewpoint. Its expecting people to worship the State.

we arent free. If we were free,we wouldnt have to pay insurances or go to school.

Healthcare wouldnt be a privelege. We wouldnt have to live to work instead of working to live.

 

 

 

[BOTT]

4 hours ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

The fact this thread exists gives credence to what Kaep is doing; Non violent protest on a national stage. Good for him. He's given another voice to a movement that needs to find more avenues to express itself. If you think about the fact that my father lived in a time when segregation was considered acceptable in some states. That's not too long ago. The changes came from people taking a stand. Up here in Canada we have a nasty track record for treatment of aboriginals. Our countries have a lot of work to do. Unless we are all equal the word means nothing, same for freedom. Have a conversation, keep an open mind, know that there are tons of people that feel that a change needs to happen. Political expression doesn't need to make sense it needs to make the news. 

I'm not sure he has given a voice to anything.  99% of the conversation is about whether he is unpatriotic.

[Nadine]

Hey guys,

 

Appreciate all that tempered their posts on this subject.  However, several posts were political, they strayed from talking about sitting during the anthem to other issues.  It was bound to happen Locked now