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Interesting comments from Grigson...


RockThatBlue

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Overall this interview didn't do anything to change the perception on Grigson. I'll admit that now I believe the story that we weren't looking at Chud as an OC candidate, but I would like to know then why he was hired almost immediately after he was hired as the "Special Assistant to the HC"? Grigs claimed in the interview that they didn't get him because they were going to make an OC change. But yeah, I still feel the same way.

 

My impression there was that Chud was the backup plan. Three weeks before they hired him, Pep was interviewing with Vanderbilt. There was talk that he was a finalist, maybe even the favorite. Some of that has been called into question, but the talk was there. 

 

Based on Grigson's comments, I think the idea was that if Pep took another job, they'd have a smooth transition to a new OC with a guy everyone liked in Chud. 

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My impression there was that Chud was the backup plan. Three weeks before they hired him, Pep was interviewing with Vanderbilt. There was talk that he was a finalist, maybe even the favorite. Some of that has been called into question, but the talk was there. 

 

Based on Grigson's comments, I think the idea was that if Pep took another job, they'd have a smooth transition to a new OC with a guy everyone liked in Chud.

And herein lies the entire purpose of the interview. Problem solved, so far. Time to move on with the rest of the season. We are going to have plenty of time to discuss the remnants of this season and next, soon.

Nice post, MOS.

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I lost a lot of respect for Grigson when he made the "It's not like he's a guy outta Whatsamatta U" in reference to some of the O-linemen he has brought in.  He was basically saying that everyone else's opinions were below his own, regardless of the trash linemen he signed and put on the field (Satele, McGlynn, Louis, Thomas, etc.).

 

In my mind it is clear that Grigson either needs to go or needs to get better scouting personnel to help him in his decisions.  Every FA WR we have brought in has been a FLOP.

 

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt up until this year when the opening O-line combination was Castanzo-Louis-Holmes-Herremans-Mewhort.  That was all I had to see in order to lose all confidence in him as a GM.

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I lost a lot of respect for Grigson when he made the "It's not like he's a guy outta Whatsamatta U" in reference to some of the O-linemen he has brought in.  He was basically saying that everyone else's opinions were below his own, regardless of the trash linemen he signed and put on the field (Satele, McGlynn, Louis, Thomas, etc.).

 

In my mind it is clear that Grigson either needs to go or needs to get better scouting personnel to help him in his decisions.  Every FA WR we have brought in has been a FLOP.

 

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt up until this year when the opening O-line combination was Castanzo-Louis-Holmes-Herremans-Mewhort.  That was all I had to see in order to lose all confidence in him as a GM.

 

I gained a lot of respect for him regarding the 'Whatsamatta U' comment. Heck, I gain a degree of respect for anyone who references Rock & Bullwinkle.

 

FA WRs? I don't recall any better solutions in each case. At least, solutions that would make sense against the salary cap.

FA OL? Salete & McGlynn were desperate 'fill the roster' pick ups. Louis & Herremans appear to be mistakes. Thomas just couldn't stay healthy, I find little fault in that.

 

Things could have turned out better, but I don't find a whole lot of fault in what's been attempted. 

TRich turned out to be glaring, but only because it was a 1st.

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I gained a lot of respect for him regarding the 'Whatsamatta U' comment. Heck, I gain a degree of respect for anyone who references Rock & Bullwinkle.

 

FA WRs? I don't recall any better solutions in each case. At least, solutions that would make sense against the salary cap.

FA OL? Salete & McGlynn were desperate 'fill the roster' pick ups. Louis & Herremans appear to be mistakes. Thomas just couldn't stay healthy, I find little fault in that.

 

Things could have turned out better, but I don't find a whole lot of fault in what's been attempted. 

TRich turned out to be glaring, but only because it was a 1st.

 

The bold part is what you and other Grigson apologists have clung to for awhile now and it isn't working anymore. Grigson "tried" by bringing in penny players when he should've been bringing in quarter and dollar-type players. You have to look at the result and stop looking at his attempt. That 1st rounder on T-Rich? Could've been used on a player that would've atleast still been with the team. The first round pick on Werner? Another swing and miss. This year's draft class appears to be alright so far. But overall, including Grigson's FA gaffs, he's been a major disappointment. Especially when you consider the offensive line and the rumor that he's overstepped his bounds with coaching and personnel decisions.

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I lost a lot of respect for Grigson when he made the "It's not like he's a guy outta Whatsamatta U" in reference to some of the O-linemen he has brought in.  He was basically saying that everyone else's opinions were below his own, regardless of the trash linemen he signed and put on the field (Satele, McGlynn, Louis, Thomas, etc.).

 

In my mind it is clear that Grigson either needs to go or needs to get better scouting personnel to help him in his decisions.  Every FA WR we have brought in has been a FLOP.

 

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt up until this year when the opening O-line combination was Castanzo-Louis-Holmes-Herremans-Mewhort.  That was all I had to see in order to lose all confidence in him as a GM.

 

To the bolded, that's 100% true.

 

Doesn't mean he's always right and the fans have no right to voice their opinion, but the truth is that he and his scouting team are professional talent evaluators, and we're just fans on the Internet. Again, not that they're always right and we don't know anything, but their opinions are obviously far more valuable than ours.

 

That's especially true of a first year player that they scouted, drafted, and watched in practice every day. And that's what his point was. They've put in the work, they watch practice, they watch film, etc. Just because everyone in the blogosphere was obsessed with drafting a center in 2014 doesn't mean that Khaled Holmes wasn't a good prospect who was worthy of competing for the starting job.

 

Of course, if majority rules, we would have traded up to draft Marcus Martin in the first round that year.

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My impression there was that Chud was the backup plan. Three weeks before they hired him, Pep was interviewing with Vanderbilt. There was talk that he was a finalist, maybe even the favorite. Some of that has been called into question, but the talk was there.

Based on Grigson's comments, I think the idea was that if Pep took another job, they'd have a smooth transition to a new OC with a guy everyone liked in Chud.

I guess I could live with that. But I also remember seeing an article that Chud and Chuck were good friends. So I always felt that had a lot to do with it as well.

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To the bolded, that's 100% true.

 

Doesn't mean he's always right and the fans have no right to voice their opinion, but the truth is that he and his scouting team are professional talent evaluators, and we're just fans on the Internet. Again, not that they're always right and we don't know anything, but their opinions are obviously far more valuable than ours.

 

That's especially true of a first year player that they scouted, drafted, and watched in practice every day. And that's what his point was. They've put in the work, they watch practice, they watch film, etc. Just because everyone in the blogosphere was obsessed with drafting a center in 2014 doesn't mean that Khaled Holmes wasn't a good prospect who was worthy of competing for the starting job.

 

Of course, if majority rules, we would have traded up to draft Marcus Martin in the first round that year.

"Of course, if majority rules, we would have traded up to draft Marcus Martin in the first round that year."

 

And still no better off

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I gained a lot of respect for him regarding the 'Whatsamatta U' comment. Heck, I gain a degree of respect for anyone who references Rock & Bullwinkle.

 

FA WRs? I don't recall any better solutions in each case. At least, solutions that would make sense against the salary cap.

FA OL? Salete & McGlynn were desperate 'fill the roster' pick ups. Louis & Herremans appear to be mistakes. Thomas just couldn't stay healthy, I find little fault in that.

 

Things could have turned out better, but I don't find a whole lot of fault in what's been attempted. 

TRich turned out to be glaring, but only because it was a 1st.

I would say Satele was a mistake. He actually paid him decent money. Grigson should have stuck with his original plan of having McGlynn play center. Instead he had two turds next to each other. Oops.

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I guess I could live with that. But I also remember seeing an article that Chud and Chuck were good friends. So I always felt that had a lot to do with it as well.

 

Yeah they're familiar with each other and worked together in the past. That explains why they jumped to hire Chud even when they didn't have an official role for him. 

 

Grigson's comment was explaining that they did view him as a backup plan also. Not really in case Pep failed, but more in case Pep left for another job. 

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I would say Satele was a mistake. He actually paid him decent money. Grigson should have stuck with his original plan of having McGlynn play center. Instead he had two turds next to each other. Oops.

 

Satele was decent in Oakland, then left here and was decent in Miami. Expecting him to be decent here, rather than the worst starting center in the league, wasn't unrealistic. I don't know how to explain it, but he was never as bad as he was in his two years here. 

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he's a penalty machine and generates no pass rush. he is good no where near a great signing. Almost can guarantee one stupid late hit or punch or something from him a game

 

yeah, Walden is a real penalty machine   :rollseyes:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WaldEr99/penalties/

 

 

That's also not true of him generating no pass rush.  He's not great by any means, but definitely not bad for a SAM LB.

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The bold part is what you and other Grigson apologists have clung to for awhile now and it isn't working anymore. Grigson "tried" by bringing in penny players when he should've been bringing in quarter and dollar-type players. You have to look at the result and stop looking at his attempt. That 1st rounder on T-Rich? Could've been used on a player that would've atleast still been with the team. The first round pick on Werner? Another swing and miss. This year's draft class appears to be alright so far. But overall, including Grigson's FA gaffs, he's been a major disappointment. Especially when you consider the offensive line and the rumor that he's overstepped his bounds with coaching and personnel decisions.

 

Apologist? 

I suppose if you dwell only on the failures, things look grim, but I wouldn't know, as I'm an optimistic realist. Yep, they exist.

I already acknowledged TRich, but forgot about Werner.

Don't forget the hits though. They count just as much.

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I gained a lot of respect for him regarding the 'Whatsamatta U' comment. Heck, I gain a degree of respect for anyone who references Rock & Bullwinkle.

 

FA WRs? I don't recall any better solutions in each case. At least, solutions that would make sense against the salary cap.

FA OL? Salete & McGlynn were desperate 'fill the roster' pick ups. Louis & Herremans appear to be mistakes. Thomas just couldn't stay healthy, I find little fault in that.

 

Things could have turned out better, but I don't find a whole lot of fault in what's been attempted. 

TRich turned out to be glaring, but only because it was a 1st.

You touched on something here, buccolts. Todd Herremans. Man, I really thought he was a fantastic pickup from Philly. I know he's older, but he played his butt off there. This is a head-scratcher to me. The guy knows OL play. Can't put my finger on it, except to say, he just hasn't performed in the manner of his past. I don't think that's on Grigson. Honestly.

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I'm smelling a Colts Forum first ever Tag Team Elimination DeathMatch as crazycolt1 and DougDew prepare to face off against ChrisFarley and Colts_Fan12 <--(let's hope 12 isn't his age).    Now the big question....who shall serve as special guest referee??

 

:sip:

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Apologist? 

I suppose if you dwell only on the failures, things look grim, but I wouldn't know, as I'm an optimistic realist. Yep, they exist.

I already acknowledged TRich, but forgot about Werner.

Don't forget the hits though. They count just as much.

"... I'm an optimistic realist."

Make that two. (and a lot more, IMO!)

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I'm smelling a Colts Forum first ever Tag Team Elimination DeathMatch as crazycolt1 and DougDew prepare to face off against ChrisFarley and Colts_Fan12 <--(let's hope 12 isn't his age).    Now the big question....who shall serve as special guest referee??

 

:sip:

Where's the ticket counter and price per?

:)

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Luck is hurt because he has never had a line in front of him and he does what every winner does and makes things happen, whether he's throwing on the run (which happens way to much, throwing from his knees (just about on his knees) or running for his life. 

You also need to discount the first year because that was all Arians and had nothing to do with Luck. And "NO" they don't grow on trees but neither do you keep on watering a dead tree. Why don't you address the fact that Pagano has not put a Defense together which is suppose to be his prowess?? It's time to move on and find some individuals who can get build this team to a real dynasty; they have the potential as long as Luck is on the team. The trial and error period is over for Pagano and it is time to solve the error by doing away with the Pagano Era.

Yep, yep, just snap your finger and get er done.

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Apologist?

I suppose if you dwell only on the failures, things look grim, but I wouldn't know, as I'm an optimistic realist. Yep, they exist.

I already acknowledged TRich, but forgot about Werner.

Don't forget the hits though. They count just as much.

Let's make a list and find out about all these hits and misses:

Hits:

Luck (freebie)

Hilton

Fleener

Mewhort

Gore

Davis

Lowery

Middle of road:

Freeman

DQ Jackson

Toler

Avery

Allen

Bradshaw

Walden

Misses:

Cherilus

Donald Thomas

Landry

Werner

Satelle

Herremans

Thornton

Holmes

Harrison

T Rich

Mike Mcglynn

RJF

This is off the top of my head and clearly there's more misses there than hits. You can blame injuries or say these are stop-gap players but the fact is, more than a handful of these players were signed and expected to produce and did not.

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Let's make a list and find out about all these hits and misses:

Hits:

Luck (freebie)

Hilton

Fleener

Mewhort

Gore

Davis

Lowery

Middle of road:

Freeman

DQ Jackson

Toler

Avery

Allen

Bradshaw

Walden

Misses:

Cherilus

Donald Thomas

Landry

Werner

Satelle

Herremans

Thornton

Holmes

Harrison

T Rich

Mike Mcglynn

RJF

This is off the top of my head and clearly there's more misses there than hits. You can blame injuries or say these are stop-gap players but the fact is, more than a handful of these players were signed and expected to produce and did not.

 

Most of the misses were on dirt-cheap minimum 1-year contracts, save for Gosder Cherilus. After this year, we have one of the lowest dead cap figure in the league at $6 million TOTAL.

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Most of the misses were on dirt-cheap minimum 1-year contracts, save for Gosder Cherilus. After this year, we have one of the lowest dead cap figure in the league at $6 million TOTAL.

 

I'm not sure that Thornton, Homes & Harrison should be counted as misses either.  Heck, Harrison is a 2nd year player that was a UDFA.

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I'm not sure that Thornton, Homes & Harrison should be counted as misses either. Heck, Harrison is a 2nd year player that was a UDFA.

If he's a 2nd year UDFA, how in the world is he starting? Don't blame Pagano either as word is that Grigson made the push for them to start Harrison.

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Let's make a list and find out about all these hits and misses:

Hits:

Luck (freebie)

Hilton

Fleener

Mewhort

Gore

Davis

Lowery

Middle of road:

Freeman

DQ Jackson

Toler

Avery

Allen

Bradshaw

Walden

Misses:

Cherilus

Donald Thomas

Landry

Werner

Satelle

Herremans

Thornton

Holmes

Harrison

T Rich

Mike Mcglynn

RJF

This is off the top of my head and clearly there's more misses there than hits. You can blame injuries or say these are stop-gap players but the fact is, more than a handful of these players were signed and expected to produce and did not.

 

But that's just your opinion. There are few facts here.

 

Hits:
Luck (freebie): Agreed
Hilton: If his production keeps up, as it has lately, you could get some arguments here.
Fleener: You could get some arguments here, right now.
Mewhort: Too early, but he does look pretty solid.
Gore: I'm not so sure about this yet. I like him, and he certainly taught us a thing, or two, about TRich, but........
Davis: Agreed. Having a bit of a down year, but definitely a hit.
Lowery: Agreed. A pleasant surprise.
 
 
Middle of road:
Freeman: OK, but has had plenty of moments, and we're not paying him a ton.
DQ Jackson: Upper end of the middle.
Toler: OK, and I think he started off as a hit, but it's not been the case much of lately.
Avery: OK, he was fine for what we needed at the time, but he was only here one year, wasn't he?
Allen: I'm still hoping scheme and health will elevate him back to a hit.
Bradshaw: Boy, he's certainly a hit when he's on the field, and he wasn't brought here to be the bell cow. I really think he's a hit in a limited role.
Walden: I think Walden is a hit, also. He's been really good at what we expect from him, and some.
 
Misses:
Cherilus: Disagree. I don't penalize for injuries.
Donald Thomas: Disagree, though there was no impact, only promise. I don't penalize for injuries.
Landry: Agreed.
Werner: Agreed. He may end up being a solid player, but no where near a 1st rounder.
Satelle: Got less than what we needed, unfortunately, because he was good. A miss? Yes. Grigson's fault? Why?
Herremans: See Satele.
Thornton: Disagree. Too early, and scheme(?).
Holmes: Not sure. Too early? Mis-handled? Scheme? I don't know what to think about this guy.
Harrison: Too early, and not a waste.
T Rich: Agreed.
Mike Mcglynn: I'd like to lump him with Satele, but not sure McGlynn was good before, or after. I just know he wasn't good here.
RJF: OK
 
Additions:
Butler: A hit.
Moncreif: He could end up being the best receiver on our roster in short order. A hit, so far.
Arthur Jones: See Donald Thomas.
Mike Adams: Big hit.
Kendall Langford: Big hit, so far.
Josh Cribbs: Miss
Matt Hasselbeck: Big hit.
 
Oh yeah, and, I don't blame anyone for injuries and there were a lot of stop-gap players in the first couple of years.
Heck, as long as Grigson continues to try and fill in the bottom of the roster, there will always be stop-gap players.
It's just that now we can replace guys to fill out the roster, the first year, we didn't have enough players to start out with. 
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If he's a 2nd year UDFA, how in the world is he starting? Don't blame Pagano either as word is that Grigson made the push for them to start Harrison.

 

I'm not blaming anyone.  He was starting because he played fairly well while Holmes was hurt, up until the Atlanta game.  However, that misses the point that those 3 players that I mentioned should not be considered misses by Grigson.

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Yeah they're familiar with each other and worked together in the past. That explains why they jumped to hire Chud even when they didn't have an official role for him.

Grigson's comment was explaining that they did view him as a backup plan also. Not really in case Pep failed, but more in case Pep left for another job.

I can accept that. That's the one thing in all these Colts rumors that I think this interview put to bed. I think we all blew it out of proportion.

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Here's what I don't get: 

 

Why go on & on & about how hiring Pep Hamilton was the easiest decision you & Chuck every made & how Pep fit like a glove for Andrew given his familiarity with his playbook/personality at Stanford, but you can't explain or elaborate on why Pep was let go? It's not really a distraction since he's gone now. Plus, why rave about the hire now when it didn't work out? It's like a WallStreet broker accused of embezzling $75,000,00 but the feds could only retrieve $5,000,000 of it.

 

Translation: Don't use Pep to brag about what a genius you are as a GM when you had to dismiss him because our offense looked anemic or uninspired on the field. You don't gloat when you crash & burn especially when Pagano will be gone next year. All you can do is tell your fan base what your failures have taught you & how these circumstances & setbacks will make you a better GM if you are permitted to stay in INDY. 

 

If a GM says for instance, I screwed up on Trent Richardson & the experience taught me don't waste a 1st round draft pick on an older back that never shined in Cleveland. Instead, I know now that youth & athletic talent in the draft are more valuable than a veteran RB who has no vision & always runs away from any openings the offensive line creates. 

 

I respect a guy who has the courage to say I blew it, but please give me more time to fix the situation & redeem myself amongst the fans & ownership. I hate it when the front office acts immune to constructive criticism. It ticks me off. Enough said.

yes sir! agree 100%..border line "wishy/ washy" maybe its the reason why the perception he Pags don't see eye to eye could be true.  

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I guess I could live with that. But I also remember seeing an article that Chud and Chuck were good friends. So I always felt that had a lot to do with it as well.

 

It's my understanding that hiring Chud was all Pagano's idea.

 

That's the way I thought I read stories here on Colts.com.      

 

They go back many years,  and when Chud got fired in Cleveland,  Pagano went to management and we hired him as the Assistant HC.

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But that's just your opinion. There are few facts here.

 

Hits:
Luck (freebie): Agreed
Hilton: If his production keeps up, as it has lately, you could get some arguments here.
Fleener: You could get some arguments here, right now.
Mewhort: Too early, but he does look pretty solid.
Gore: I'm not so sure about this yet. I like him, and he certainly taught us a thing, or two, about TRich, but........
Davis: Agreed. Having a bit of a down year, but definitely a hit.
Lowery: Agreed. A pleasant surprise.
 
 
Middle of road:
Freeman: OK, but has had plenty of moments, and we're not paying him a ton.
DQ Jackson: Upper end of the middle.
Toler: OK, and I think he started off as a hit, but it's not been the case much of lately.
Avery: OK, he was fine for what we needed at the time, but he was only here one year, wasn't he?
Allen: I'm still hoping scheme and health will elevate him back to a hit.
Bradshaw: Boy, he's certainly a hit when he's on the field, and he wasn't brought here to be the bell cow. I really think he's a hit in a limited role.
Walden: I think Walden is a hit, also. He's been really good at what we expect from him, and some.
 
Misses:
Cherilus: Disagree. I don't penalize for injuries.
Donald Thomas: Disagree, though there was no impact, only promise. I don't penalize for injuries.
Landry: Agreed.
Werner: Agreed. He may end up being a solid player, but no where near a 1st rounder.
Satelle: Got less than what we needed, unfortunately, because he was good. A miss? Yes. Grigson's fault? Why?
Herremans: See Satele.
Thornton: Disagree. Too early, and scheme(?).
Holmes: Not sure. Too early? Mis-handled? Scheme? I don't know what to think about this guy.
Harrison: Too early, and not a waste.
T Rich: Agreed.
Mike Mcglynn: I'd like to lump him with Satele, but not sure McGlynn was good before, or after. I just know he wasn't good here.
RJF: OK
 
Additions:
Butler: A hit.
Moncreif: He could end up being the best receiver on our roster in short order. A hit, so far.
Arthur Jones: See Donald Thomas.
Mike Adams: Big hit.
Kendall Langford: Big hit, so far.
Josh Cribbs: Miss
Matt Hasselbeck: Big hit.
 
Oh yeah, and, I don't blame anyone for injuries and there were a lot of stop-gap players in the first couple of years.
Heck, as long as Grigson continues to try and fill in the bottom of the roster, there will always be stop-gap players.
It's just that now we can replace guys to fill out the roster, the first year, we didn't have enough players to start out with. 

 

 

You and I can sit and argue about each player but there's a consensus that Grigson has missed more than he has hit. This is especially true when you weigh how bad the misses were (T-Rich for a 1st rounder, Werner for a 1st rounder). Not all of these players were stop-gaps and some were expected to fill needs both in the short-term and long-term. At the end of the day, you are judged by how the team performs, regardless of injuries or purpose of that player.

 

I think the main problems are two things:

 

1. Lack of serious playmakers defensively: Outside of Vontae Davis, there is no single player that opposing teams single handily have to prepare for week to week. Now, we can all sit here and say that Grigson "tried" by bringing in Landry or other players but the results are what matter. Couple that in with the lack of a serious pass rush and you get the result. The defense has been more steady this year than in recent memory but the overall body of work is lacking.

 

2. The Offensive Line: Arguably the biggest issue. People want to sit here and nitpick at Andrew for holding the ball too long (with some justification) but it's clearly not all on Andrew. Look at the Falcons game as an example. Simply put, Grigson hasn't built the offensive line. While it's been serviceable at different times during the past 4 years, it's clearly been the main issue.

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