Report: Irsay, Grigson had “heated conversation” in locker room

[Bubbz]

I'm hoping for it.

Send Pep packing, promote the RB coach to interim OC or Clyde

Send Chuck packing, promote Chud to interim HC

Send Manusky packing, promote LB or DB coach to interim DC

Send Grigson packing, Irsay can be owner & GM

 

You know we've tried this right?

no he doesnt

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I may be uninformed or not seeing the entire picture.  I too have heard that Chuck wanted Chud as OC and Grigson installed Pep.  Big mistake IMO.  Why in the world is Grigson deciding the OC?  Rather than focusing in on Pep as OC, he should have been reviewing the roster and focusing on that.  I'm not a fan of Grigson and honestly haven't been since the day he was hired.  I don't see where he's done a lot that warrants him being some genius of a GM.  He selected Luck, big shock who wouldn't have?  Everyone knew coming in to this season that the offensive line needed work and the defense needed upgraded and we draft a WR in the 1st round.  I remember when they announced the pick just sitting and shaking my head.  I don't care how fast the guy is.  Aside from the one TD catch, he's been pretty much invisible to me so far.  Now, he's hurt for 4-6 weeks.  I know that you cannot do anything about injuries.  But the WR's were fairly deep the way it was and we blow a 1st rounder on yet another WR.   

 

Luck's now been injured due to the hits he's been absorbing.  The offensive line looks like swiss cheese most of the time, pair that with Pep's play calling with the 5-7 step drops and just wow.  It may just be an observation of mine but in watching the games, once Luck gets a couple of completions to TY, he seems to lock in on him regardless of the coverage.  Maybe this is due to the other receivers just not getting separation, maybe it's just Luck trying to go to his money guy.  It looks to me that Luck's throwing motion has changed a bit and I'm not 100% that he's still not hurt to some degree.  On another note, we have 153 total rushing attempts compared to 286 passing attempts, craziness.  Frank Gore had 9 carries against the Saints...9???  He was averaging 4.8 a carry and gets 9 carries?  I thought the idea was to get balance and use the run?

 

I heard Deion Sanders on the Thursday night game say that if the Colts do not get this thing straightened out, the same situation that is going on in San Francisco right now is Indy's future.  He went on to say that Chuck needed to be retained.  Personally, I don't think that Chuck is the problem.  I think there are questions for certain.  Personally, I'd like to see Chuck get a shot with Chud as OC, and personnel decisions being made that address the issues with the team.  Grigson packing the brown box and departing the facility would make my entire day.  If a new GM were brought in and Chuck got the personnel he needed along with being able to decide his own staff and still failed to produce, then it would be time for Chuck to follow Grigson into the sunset.  I for one am glad to finally hear of some fire and passion out of Irsay. 

All of this is correct!

[OffensivelyPC]

At least Cleveland have made despair and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory an art form. To think I was kinda interested in the Browns before I really settled on an team because I thought the uniforms were kinda cool looking. Heck if I'd bought a Browns Jersey I'd probably of had my shot at QB there already.

yeah, they certainly know how to curb their fans expectations when it comes to QBs. Of course, I'm not sure it's much better to set ours as high as we do either. Heard Venturi on the air today saying specifically that the high expectations (not necessarily of the fans, though that doesn't help) have crippled this team. Not sure how much I buy that, but it's not some unheard of concept that you are counterproductive when you put unrealistic expectations of your employees.

[will426]

Grigson needs knocked down a notch. He should not be meddling in coaching issues. Pags appears to be a man who has lost control of his assistants and Grigson has overstepped his bounds and Pagano has been hamstrung by that. Time for Irsay to: Re-define Grissom's role and probably go with a new coach. Pagano has stepped in his own doo with the special teams atrocities this year. The family is in dysfunction. Time for Irsay to take control and start over with the staff. Keep Grigson away from the coaches and let them do their jobs. Grigson should be put on notice that he needs to stop blowing first round picks and signing free agents from the social security line.

THIS THIS AND MUCH MORE OF THIS

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

I can't understand how anyone can in be denial that there are rifts/disconnects within our organization. The media doesn't always get it right but I can almost guarantee they're not pulling all of this out of their *.

[Defjamz26]

yeah, they certainly know how to curb their fans expectations when it comes to QBs. Of course, I'm not sure it's much better to set ours as high as we do either. Heard Venturi on the air today saying specifically that the high expectations (not necessarily of the fans, though that doesn't help) have crippled this team. Not sure how much I buy that, but it's not some unheard of concept that you are counterproductive when you put unrealistic expectations of your employees.

IDK about crippling the team but I think it's made the losses seem worse than they are because it seems like no one expected this. The team is actually probably meeting expectations based on the roster and coaching. The only expectations they're failing to meet are the ones placed on them.

[Bowlingguy300]

come on Irsay time to take the same path Detroit did today letting the OC go.  well you should do more then that but you should at least do that

[Superman]

come on Irsay time to take the same path Detroit did today letting the OC go.  well you should do more then that but you should at least do that

 

I don't care if Pep stays. Just don't let him call plays anymore. 

[Restored]

I don't care if Pep stays. Just don't let him call plays anymore. 

 

I was listening to JMV today and he had Venturi on for his weekly segment. Pretty much said that Pep has been running the same offense with little variation and that defenses have T'd off on this since the Bills and Jets laid out the blueprint this season. Time for a change.

[Superman]

I was listening to JMV today and he had Venturi on for his weekly segment. Pretty much said that Pep has been running the same offense with little variation and that defenses have T'd off on this since the Bills and Jets laid out the blueprint this season. Time for a change.

 

I don't really agree with that criticism. It's not like running new plays is the answer. Good execution is way more important, and the execution has been terrible even on simple stuff like screens. Luck's 2nd pick was a bad throw, if nothing else it was too late, and he threw it too softly, but the underneath route was too deep, which is why Wilson was able to float in no man's land and get back and make a play. Execution is a reflection of coaching, to a degree.

 

My main problem is that we don't use the common sense stuff. Play action, roll outs, Y Banana, proven route concepts, etc. During the game yesterday at one point, John Lynch was talking about how no receivers were getting open, but the truth is they weren't running any routes. It was 3/4 speed go routes, rounded ins/outs, etc. That leads to the QB holding the ball too long, and it leads to low percentage throws. 

 

Not absolving Luck at all. He's been far less than adequate, and downright bad at times. But we know the stuff that works on offense, and we just don't use it. And that's to say nothing of the refusal to stick with the run game.

[Coltsfan1284]

I said this on other posts that kind leaned toward this topic.  I agree that the number 1 quick change is Pep has to go.  I don't

 

understand how you can follow the offensive blueprint of the first half of the Pats game see the success it had compared to the

 

failure of the scheme of the prior games Luck was in and then starting from the 2nd half of the Pats game just suddenly switch back

 

to the deep ball 5 and 7 step drops and getting our QB hit again.  Is it Peps idea or Pags?  I mean dang we were beating the best

 

team in football with a very good offensive concept then just go away from it, this makes no sense to me.  I think that if we followed

 

the Hasselbeck offensive scheme which was similar to the Pats 1st half offensive scheme with Luck we could be 6-1 or 5-2 right

 

now.

[SteelCityColt]

I don't really agree with that criticism. It's not like running new plays is the answer. Good execution is way more important, and the execution has been terrible even on simple stuff like screens. Luck's 2nd pick was a bad throw, if nothing else it was too late, and he threw it too softly, but the underneath route was too deep, which is why Wilson was able to float in no man's land and get back and make a play. Execution is a reflection of coaching, to a degree.

 

My main problem is that we don't use the common sense stuff. Play action, roll outs, Y Banana, proven route concepts, etc. During the game yesterday at one point, John Lynch was talking about how no receivers were getting open, but the truth is they weren't running any routes. It was 3/4 speed go routes, rounded ins/outs, etc. That leads to the QB holding the ball too long, and it leads to low percentage throws. 

 

Not absolving Luck at all. He's been far less than adequate, and downright bad at times. But we know the stuff that works on offense, and we just don't use it. And that's to say nothing of the refusal to stick with the run game.

 

Now you mention it.. P/A seems sorely missing lately, or is that just me having a poor memory?

[Superman]

Now you mention it.. P/A seems sorely missing lately, or is that just me having a poor memory?

 

Really? I've been complaining about a lack of play action for a year now. It's sorely lacking, and has been.

[F.T. Walton]

I can't understand how anyone can in be denial that there are rifts/disconnects within our organization. The media doesn't always get it right but I can almost guarantee they're not pulling all of this out of their *.

http://m.weei.com/sports/feed/blog/anonymous/colts-management-feuding-players-delusional-and-it%E2%80%99s-magnificent

[SteelCityColt]

Really? I've been complaining about a lack of play action for a year now. It's sorely lacking, and has been.

 

I remember we talked about it last season and about how effective it was when we used it (surprising considering the run game!). You'd think with an increased threat from Gore we'd be using it more not less and catching people out over the top with speedster WRs....

 

From what I can find we used it about 19% of the time last year:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/2014-play-action-offense

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

I was at the game and having the crowd boo your team had to put a bur

under Irsay's saddle.

[Superman]

I remember we talked about it last season and about how effective it was when we used it (surprising considering the run game!). You'd think with an increased threat from Gore we'd be using it more not less and catching people out over the top with speedster WRs....

 

From what I can find we used it about 19% of the time last year:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/2014-play-action-offense

 

Don't get me started... lots of problems with the offensive game plans so far this year.

[F.T. Walton]

I was at the game and having the crowd boo your team had to put a bur

under Irsay's saddle.

A burr like that hurts the horse more than the rider

[Restored]

I don't really agree with that criticism. It's not like running new plays is the answer. Good execution is way more important, and the execution has been terrible even on simple stuff like screens. Luck's 2nd pick was a bad throw, if nothing else it was too late, and he threw it too softly, but the underneath route was too deep, which is why Wilson was able to float in no man's land and get back and make a play. Execution is a reflection of coaching, to a degree.

 

My main problem is that we don't use the common sense stuff. Play action, roll outs, Y Banana, proven route concepts, etc. During the game yesterday at one point, John Lynch was talking about how no receivers were getting open, but the truth is they weren't running any routes. It was 3/4 speed go routes, rounded ins/outs, etc. That leads to the QB holding the ball too long, and it leads to low percentage throws. 

 

Not absolving Luck at all. He's been far less than adequate, and downright bad at times. But we know the stuff that works on offense, and we just don't use it. And that's to say nothing of the refusal to stick with the run game.

 

Eh, to a degree he's not wrong though. Teams each week (outside of Jacksonville who just love to do the same thing each week and lose) have played the Colts the same way defensively. They press the WR's at the line and eliminate a lot of the quicker throws. Couple this with Luck not trusting his reads and getting tunnel vision and you get the result. An ideal play to watch would be the 3rd and 1 early on Sunday. Colts ran the ball two straight times then tried double slants with Moncrief and TY on the left side of the formation. Both got jammed at the line. Luck double clutched and ended up taking a sack. There was also another play where Luck threw the shorter drag route to Andre Johnson on a 3rd down instead of to Fleener who actually was open beyond the first down marker.

 

But I agree, despite Luck's struggles, I have yet to see any rub/pick routes be used. Very little bunch formations along with very little to no TE use. Something has to give.

[Superman]

Eh, to a degree he's not wrong though. Teams each week (outside of Jacksonville who just love to do the same thing each week and lose) have played the Colts the same way defensively. They press the WR's at the line and eliminate a lot of the quicker throws. Couple this with Luck not trusting his reads and getting tunnel vision and you get the result. An ideal play to watch would be the 3rd and 1 early on Sunday. Colts ran the ball two straight times then tried double slants with Moncrief and TY on the left side of the formation. Both got jammed at the line. Luck double clutched and ended up taking a sack. There was also another play where Luck threw the shorter drag route to Andre Johnson on a 3rd down instead of to Fleener who actually was open beyond the first down marker.

 

But I agree, despite Luck's struggles, I have yet to see any rub/pick routes be used. Very little bunch formations along with very little to no TE use. Something has to give.

 

I haven't rewatched the game, and I don't think I saw that play. But how about this? Run the ball on 3rd and 1. ::gasp::

 

I don't think the offense needs to be redesigned. That doesn't mean the play calling shouldn't change; it should. I just don't have a problem with double slants on the backside, conceptually. 

 

To me, if you take the gameplan from the first half of the New England game and the fourth quarter of the Titans game, you have the prototypical Colts offense. High percentage throws, good use of play action, good use of TEs, strong and varied run game, bunch formations, some deep shots with max protect, Luck would pull it down and run, etc. 

 

And we still need better execution, no matter what we call. Luck missed a dozen slant opportunities yesterday. He over/underthrew receivers on other occasions. He missed reads. There were some drops, there were too many penalties, etc. 

[Restored]

I haven't rewatched the game, and I don't think I saw that play. But how about this? Run the ball on 3rd and 1. ::gasp::

 

I don't think the offense needs to be redesigned. That doesn't mean the play calling shouldn't change; it should. I just don't have a problem with double slants on the backside, conceptually. 

 

To me, if you take the gameplan from the first half of the New England game and the fourth quarter of the Titans game, you have the prototypical Colts offense. High percentage throws, good use of play action, good use of TEs, strong and varied run game, bunch formations, some deep shots with max protect, Luck would pull it down and run, etc. 

 

And we still need better execution, no matter what we call. Luck missed a dozen slant opportunities yesterday. He over/underthrew receivers on other occasions. He missed reads. There were some drops, there were too many penalties, etc. 

 

Yeah, I believe it was on the Colts first offensive series, if not the second one. But I agree, they definitely got too cute with the play call. Again, it goes back to what happened in the New England game where they abandoned the run way too fast. This week was even worse.

 

I think Venturi was saying what you are saying as well. The offense doesn't need to be completely changed but the playcalling has to change in order for the offense to function with what the opposing defense is doing. Conceptually the double slants SHOULD work but when the defense is playing man-press on a 3rd and 1 when you have them spread out, you run the ball and get one yard.

 

I think Pep has suffered from "paralysis of analysis" this year. He's had too many "weapons" that he doesn't know what to do with and subsequently, the offense doesn't have an identity. He also has to be accountable for Luck's regression. They've got to get him to play better.

[krunk]

Really? I've been complaining about a lack of play action for a year now. It's sorely lacking, and has been.

They utilized more play action against the Saints but the game was out of hand so bad they could not really run anymore and had to get away from it. Luck made a completion or two when we did it and I thought he had time to process what he was seeing when we did it.

[Superman]

Yeah, I believe it was on the Colts first offensive series, if not the second one. But I agree, they definitely got too cute with the play call. Again, it goes back to what happened in the New England game where they abandoned the run way too fast. This week was even worse.

 

I think Venturi was saying what you are saying as well. The offense doesn't need to be completely changed but the playcalling has to change in order for the offense to function with what the opposing defense is doing. Conceptually the double slants SHOULD work but when the defense is playing man-press on a 3rd and 1 when you have them spread out, you run the ball and get one yard.

 

I think Pep has suffered from "paralysis of analysis" this year. He's had too many "weapons" that he doesn't know what to do with and subsequently, the offense doesn't have an identity. He also has to be accountable for Luck's regression. They've got to get him to play better.

 

Fair enough.

 

To the 'too many weapons' thing regarding Pep, that's a convenient excuse, IMO. He's just been bad. It's not that hard to rotate receivers, TEs and backs, and still call the best plays for your personnel. 

[GhostofJohnnyU]

You're fine NCF and I 100% agree. I think saying Irsay is ticked off is the understatement of the year. Heads might be rolling before the end of the year.

[GhostofJohnnyU]

I was at the game and having the crowd boo your team had to put a bur

under Irsay's saddle.

Hard to blame him. Hard to blame the fans. Hard to watch that game for the first half and half the 3rd quarter. Hard to watch the defense give up the most critical 3rd down conversion of the game to get closed out.

Just plain hard.

[weslo1812]

I don't really agree with that criticism. It's not like running new plays is the answer. Good execution is way more important, and the execution has been terrible even on simple stuff like screens. Luck's 2nd pick was a bad throw, if nothing else it was too late, and he threw it too softly, but the underneath route was too deep, which is why Wilson was able to float in no man's land and get back and make a play. Execution is a reflection of coaching, to a degree.

My main problem is that we don't use the common sense stuff. Play action, roll outs, Y Banana, proven route concepts, etc. During the game yesterday at one point, John Lynch was talking about how no receivers were getting open, but the truth is they weren't running any routes. It was 3/4 speed go routes, rounded ins/outs, etc. That leads to the QB holding the ball too long, and it leads to low percentage throws.

Not absolving Luck at all. He's been far less than adequate, and downright bad at times. But we know the stuff that works on offense, and we just don't use it. And that's to say nothing of the refusal to stick with the run game.

Excellent sum up Superman!!! As always, and I agree.

[achcolts]

this could all be a blessing in disguise to fuel them in the playoffs to be the biggest underdogs..GENIUS!

[SteelCityColt]

Don't get me started... lots of problems with the offensive game plans so far this year.

 

We miss you ;(

[Cynjin]

I don't really agree with that criticism. It's not like running new plays is the answer. Good execution is way more important, and the execution has been terrible even on simple stuff like screens. Luck's 2nd pick was a bad throw, if nothing else it was too late, and he threw it too softly, but the underneath route was too deep, which is why Wilson was able to float in no man's land and get back and make a play. Execution is a reflection of coaching, to a degree.

 

My main problem is that we don't use the common sense stuff. Play action, roll outs, Y Banana, proven route concepts, etc. During the game yesterday at one point, John Lynch was talking about how no receivers were getting open, but the truth is they weren't running any routes. It was 3/4 speed go routes, rounded ins/outs, etc. That leads to the QB holding the ball too long, and it leads to low percentage throws. 

 

Not absolving Luck at all. He's been far less than adequate, and downright bad at times. But we know the stuff that works on offense, and we just don't use it. And that's to say nothing of the refusal to stick with the run game.

I agree with most of this. I have reconsidered Luck's second int, his left shoulder was getting hit by a Saints Dlineman as Luck was throwing the ball, I believe that affected the throw. I'm not saying that it was a good decision, but just that the throw was affected by the contact.

[Iancolts]

I wonder if Irsay would keep Pagano as HC and maybe bring in harbaugh as GM. I mean I'm mad like all other colts fan but I'm putting blame on Grigson!! We signed Gore Johnson Herreman Cole traded for Trent! Pagano should quit the HC job because this isn't his fault.

[CoachLite]

They couldn't decide what to name this monster.

Fluffy?

[Jason_]

I wonder if Irsay would keep Pagano as HC and maybe bring in harbaugh as GM. I mean I'm mad like all other colts fan but I'm putting blame on Grigson!! We signed Gore Johnson Herreman Cole traded for Trent! Pagano should quit the HC job because this isn't his fault.

 

What proof or evidence is there that would suggest Harbaugh would be a capable GM?

[bababooey]

Fluffy?

They wanted Sully and they got Mike Wazowski

[MackAttack]

You have no inside sources, yet you know, because YOU'RE Jim Irsay! *Du Du Duuuum*

*X-Files theme song plays in the background*

[Iancolts]

What proof or evidence is there that would suggest Harbaugh would be a capable GM?

Harbaugh took the niners to multiple SB and is doing great at Michigan. I think he will be a good GM

[Jason_]

Harbaugh took the niners to multiple SB and is doing great at Michigan. I think he will be a good GM

 

Yeah, that speaks to his coaching ability.  That has nothing to do with being a GM.

[Superman]

I agree with most of this. I have reconsidered Luck's second int, his left shoulder was getting hit by a Saints Dlineman as Luck was throwing the ball, I believe that affected the throw. I'm not saying that it was a good decision, but just that the throw was affected by the contact.

 

The throw was probably affected, but he was also probably a split second too late. And the receivers were too close. Gotta dial down the aggressiveness when you're down 3 scores and in FG range. Protect the three points.

[jseg18]

I don't remember the play calling from 2013 compared to this years, but we need to go back to that. Like Superman said, we get into these 3rd and shorts and we spread it out. I think it's ridiculous to not have Gore get the ball. I don't even care if we don't get the first, but I bet we'll get more chances of moving the chains. That will then open up the flat routes to our back or corner routes to our TE's.

[jvan1973]

Harbaugh took the niners to multiple SB and is doing great at Michigan. I think he will be a good GM

How many superbowls did Harbaugh lead the niners to?

[DougDew]

I don't really agree with that criticism. It's not like running new plays is the answer. Good execution is way more important, and the execution has been terrible even on simple stuff like screens. Luck's 2nd pick was a bad throw, if nothing else it was too late, and he threw it too softly, but the underneath route was too deep, which is why Wilson was able to float in no man's land and get back and make a play. Execution is a reflection of coaching, to a degree.

 

My main problem is that we don't use the common sense stuff. Play action, roll outs, Y Banana, proven route concepts, etc. During the game yesterday at one point, John Lynch was talking about how no receivers were getting open, but the truth is they weren't running any routes. It was 3/4 speed go routes, rounded ins/outs, etc. That leads to the QB holding the ball too long, and it leads to low percentage throws. 

 

Not absolving Luck at all. He's been far less than adequate, and downright bad at times. But we know the stuff that works on offense, and we just don't use it. And that's to say nothing of the refusal to stick with the run game.

Venturi basically said the Offense was being out schemed.  I'm not an X's and O's guy, but he said that D's are using a 3 over 5 or a 5 over 3 defense, pressing at the line, and the Colts O has not adjusted.  No rubs, few crossing routes, and the lack of complimentary routes.  He mentioned that the routes don't really compliment each other and mentioned a recent play where all three WRs did a curl route.

 

He never mentioned Pep by name.  He didn't really have the tone of where he was calling out the O gameplan, he just mentioned all of that stuff as a matter of fact like.  A reasoned person would blame the offense's braintrust.

 

Funny thing, JMV kept trying to take the discussion back to the roster, the Oline, the offseason acquisitions...sort of the way a person would go about criticizing Grigson...and Venturi kept going into the details of the O's sluggishness and was indirectly blaming Pep.