The Pep Hamilton thread [Mega-merge]

[Narcosys]

When are we gong to stop blaming our wide receivers and blame the true culprit. I see TY open numerous times, wide open. I saw Andre Johnson and moncrief open, even griff.

Luck is the one who decides to throw to the covered person every time. I saw TY throw his arms up in frustration once because he was open with room to go for another 30 yards or even a td because he only had the safety to beat.

Luck wants to continually throw bad passes. He couldn't even hit a stationary Dwayne Allen.

And don't give me this injury crap either, has he been injured the past 3 years as well? Cause this has always been his problem. He cannot lead receivers, and at this point it seems like he will never learn to either.

[BlueShoe]

Sean Payton for HC

But on that note. The pick Luck threw to Tillman on the 2nd drive of the game. Allen was like 3 feet in front of Hilton. Your players aren't supposed to be that close to each other

 

I would Puke!

 

I do not like how smug he is. He is not a guy I want to be forced to root for.

[Hoose]

Two things stand out. First,almost the entire pass route tree is downfield. No short passes, rubs, etc. That being said, Andrew missed almost every chance to hit that lone check down receiver and instead went time and again for the home run. So, a bad scheme combined with a QB who is in love with the big play and forcing it into coverage vs taking what is there. Not good.

[TKnight24]

I would Puke!

I do not like how smug he is. He is not a guy I want to be forced to root for.

Your Personal Views < Team Success

Yeah.........

[JColts72]

Don't know why people are down on Sean? You can forget about fantasy coach such as Gruden and Cower; this is the early 2000's. It's not Luck fault he's playing bad, it's not our receivers fault, and the crying towel list goes on. Combo of coaching, management, and the yes the players who are dressed up in Colts uniforms.

[JColts72]

Andrew Luck did not forget how to be a good QB overnight.

 

Even without seeing the all-22 tape, it is obvious that our receivers/tight ends are not getting enough separation.

 

When they're not getting separation, the route combinations are so poorly designed that our WRs are clustered together in areas where there are a plethora of CBs, Safeties, and LBs. 

 

Luck is constantly faced with situations where he has to fit the ball into coverage.  While elite QBs can sometimes hit those incredibly difficult throws, no elite QB can do so every time.

 

The offense becomes way too vertically oriented at times, but that's another discussion in and of itself.

 

Are the receivers the problem?  Nope.  The route concepts/combinations in this offense leave me absolutely baffled at times.

 

Certain "staple" routes are completely ignored.  Pep will try 1 screen and if it doesn't work, he quits going to it.

 

There are virtually no designed roll-out passes for Luck.  There aren't enough crossing routes (including shallow crosses), quick ins, quick outs, WR screens, RB screens.

 

Does anyone else notice how Ted Ginn Jr. (not an elite WR - at all; although he has good speed) was wide open on several occasions (thanks to single coverage)?

 

Greg Olsen was also left completely by himself on multiple occasions.  And Newton was put in a position where he could hit those plays because the plays/routes were well designed.

 

This offense, as currently designed, gives Luck almost no "layups." 

 

If the Colts can get a great offensive mind at the helm, I have no doubt that Luck will be able to turn his game around.  This offense needs a major overhaul.

 

The only personnel problem, with respect to the offense, is that there aren't enough quality OL.

 

With the right coordinator, the Colts offense has plenty of weapons at the RB/WR/TE positions.

Even Gruden may that point about our WR options and we run 3rd and 1 for a big loss. he likes our 2 TE options.

[coltsfanatic24]

The Wr's and TEs were getting open. Luck just overthrew them or didn't see them at all. 

[#12.]

It's cave man offense. As Arians says, old school and proud. That's great, if you have the O-line and defense to pull it off. We don't, and if you do not, you better run a smarter, more creative and efficient offense, otherwise, as in this situation, you are simply setting up your QB to fail.

Whoever our next coach is, first priority is finding a QB/offensive guy who runs an intelligent and efficient offense. This team goes nowhere over the next decade unless that coach gets Luck repaired and back to being Luck.

[BlueShoe]

Andrew Luck did not forget how to be a good QB overnight.

 

Even without seeing the all-22 tape, it is obvious that our receivers/tight ends are not getting enough separation.

 

truncated

 

In regards to the WR's not getting enough separation, I mostly agree with you.

 

I believe one very important fact was missed. Weak after week, we are witnessing the same thing. In my mind, the routes are too predictable. 

 

It is important for us to run vertical and horizontal routes. In the receiving game, east & west and north & south compliment one another. We are not mixing it up enough.

 

I would also like to see us start off games with shorter, higher percentage throws. This will get the offense in a rhythm, and give us opportunities at the big shots over the top. Luck made some fantastic deep throws last night, but they were contended with outstanding defensive plays. 

 

Teams are crowding the linebackers to stop the run, and playing us deep with the secondary. We oblige by continuing to run several deep routes. It makes the blueprint to beat us very simple. 

 

We have to run a good mixture of quality routes under the coverage, and check it down to our backs. We do that and we will start to see the 10-15 play drives that end in 6. If defenses do not fear long and time consuming drives, then there is not much chance of connecting on the bombs over the top.

[JColts72]

This is what I thought last night too.....how many times would a bootleg roll out just kill the run blitzes Carolina was doing.

Also did the Colts do any play action? They ran the ball well last night but never seemed to take advantage of it.

I don't think play action is in there O play, unless it's in a Madden video game.

[TKnight24]

The Wr's and TEs were getting open. Luck just overthrew them or didn't see them at all.

I threw my PS4 controller when he missed that throw to Allen who was literally 5ft in front of him with his feet planted looking directly at Andrew Luck smh

[BlueShoe]

I threw my PS4 controller when he missed that throw to Allen who was literally 5ft in front of him with his feet planted looking directly at Andrew Luck smh

 

It could be looked at with two different perceptions. 

 

One could argue that Luck was leading Allen away from the coverage for YAC. When he does that and it works then nobody even mentions it.

 

We don't know what the intention really was. 

[BlueShoe]

Your Personal Views < Team Success

Yeah.........

 

It is not guaranteed we would be successful. 

 

What was New Orleans's record last year?

 

Since the Luck era began, Payton is sporting a 29-27 record with the Saints (granted he was suspended in 2012).

[King Colt]

Agree hideous play calling, very predictable o easy to defend. The Colts are done for a long time.

[TKnight24]

It is not guaranteed we would be successful.

What was New Orleans's record last year?

Since the Luck era began, Payton is sporting a 29-27 record with the Saints (granted he was suspended in 2012).

Yeah, with a patch work team due to cap penalty mayhem. And yet he still drew up Drew Brees with a 7 TD game

So just imagine Luck with him with the weapons Luck has

Watson is frying defenses. Imagine 2 TE's doing that

Brandin Cooks is Hilton

Moncrief is Colston

Etc Etc

He would salivate at this job offer long as Irsay gives him full control of who he hires on his staff

[ColtsBlueFL]

It could be looked at with two different perceptions. 

 

One could argue that Luck was leading Allen away from the coverage for YAC. When he does that and it works then nobody even mentions it.

 

We don't know what the intention really was. 

 

But a right handed baseball hitter in a deep slump doesn't try to pull a ball on the outer half of the plate to the left-center field bleachers for a homerun.  That's a recipe for a certain double play ball to the shortstop; and feeding the slump further.  Better to go the other way with it and even take a bloop single over the second baseman's head until you pull out of the slump.  Receiving windows in the NFL can be real tight.  Better to try to hit them on the numbers when the situation presents itself.  Luck needs to make the throw result in a reception at this point, not a potential 12 yard pass turns into a TD throw.  That can come later when his mechanics and mindset is much better.

[gacker65]

As much as I question the play calling, I know our young WRs are running poor routes.  As I have been saying, our young WRs need to run precise routes.  Rounding cuts on routes allow DBs to stay with the Receivers.  Speed does not help on passes under 20 yards.  As shown last night, Griff and AJ was getting open on route running not speed.  Speeding down the field and catching the pass in stride to score is exciting, but short/ intermediate passes wins the game.

 

JMHO

[Mr.Debonair]

Your Personal Views < Team Success

Yeah.........

Likeable coaches don't win Super Bowls, outside of Dungy

[Mr.Debonair]

I threw my PS4 controller when he missed that throw to Allen who was literally 5ft in front of him with his feet planted looking directly at Andrew Luck smh

Did you have your controller in your hand because you were trying to control Luck

[will426]

I really don't understand pep clearly game planned for when luck wasn't in and we saw what he could actually do yet he refuses to use those plays with luck? How does a Gm or Coach even allow this guy to make these decisions

[BlueShoe]

Yeah, with a patch work team due to cap penalty mayhem. And yet he still drew up Drew Brees with a 7 TD game

So just imagine Luck with him with the weapons Luck has

Watson is frying defenses. Imagine 2 TE's doing that

Brandin Cooks is Hilton

Moncrief is Colston

Etc Etc

He would salivate at this job offer long as Irsay gives him full control of who he hires on his staff

 

The only addition that would help Luck is the built in check downs to the backs. Any good OC is going to see that though. 

 

I don't think Payton is the answer. 

 

And I sure and the heck would not compare Moncrief to Colston. Two different skill-sets, and body types. Hell, Colston was considered a TE when he entered the league. 

[Narcosys]

Sean Payton for HC

But on that note. The pick Luck threw to Tillman on the 2nd drive of the game. Allen was like 3 feet in front of Hilton. Your players aren't supposed to be that close to each other

 

Yes they can be.  It was a crossing route type of play.  You had two options depending on where the back defensive player was going to go.  The excuses for Luck abound each and every week.  It's sickening.

[BlueShoe]

But a right handed baseball hitter in a deep slump doesn't try to pull a ball on the outer half of the plate to the left-center field bleachers for a homerun.  That's a recipe for a certain double play ball to the shortstop; and feeding the slump further.  Better to go the other way with it and even take a bloop single over the second baseman's head until you pull out of the slump.  Receiving windows in the NFL can be real tight.  Better to try to hit them on the numbers when the situation presents itself.  Luck needs to make the throw result in a reception at this point, not a potential 12 yard pass turns into a TD throw.  That can come later when his mechanics and mindset is much better.

 

It would make sense if Allen had not stopped. We do not know the intention of the route. For all we know the stop and redirection was the intended play call.

[JColts72]

For once I would like to hear any coach or player pull a Jim Mora and say "We Suck."

[Restored]

Honestly, the Colts got back in the game on offense because Carolina dropped into a soft zone coverage once they went up 23-6. I don't know if I can really even lend credit to Pep for changing the playcalling in the 4th quarter in this case.

[NewEra]

I really don't understand pep clearly game planned for when luck wasn't in and we saw what he could actually do yet he refuses to use those plays with luck? How does a Gm or Coach even allow this guy to make these decisions

This! The fact that he doesn't see it or refuses to make adjustments just screams arrogant *. He needs to go!!

[GwinnettColt]

Years of poor coaching has allowed Andrew Luck to perfect his flawed techniques. I wonder how long it will take a "real" coach to de-program Luck? Ever?

 

IMO, we have waited too long, and bad coaching has permanently ruined a potentially great quarterback.

 

The sooner we get Pep out of there, the better.  I think Arians would have been great for Luck.  

[GwinnettColt]

For once I would like to hear any coach or player pull a Jim Mora and say "We Suck."

 

Chuck would say, "We suck but we have grit."

[Steamboat_Shaun]

I really love that stupid, slow developing, draw play that we run out of the shotgun that just literally wastes a down each and every time.

[jszfunk]

Something needs to change, and if someone  goes it needs to be Pep. It would not make a difference if Chuck goes or not.

Who would step in for him(Chuck) if he did? The players love him and this is not like a situation in Miami.

 

Luck is not getting any better at this point , so a change in schematics might work before the season gets away.

We are almost 8 games in.

 

Luck also needs a come to Jesus talk ASAP.

[TKnight24]

Did you have your controller in your hand because you were trying to control Luck

he would've thrown for 4 TD'S and no picks if I was

Had my controller in hand cause the PS4 chat party feature. Me and the guys are in the chat anytime football games are on

[Narcosys]

1) When you don't know if your line is going to hold up, you either A) rush your decision-making, B) fail to go through progressions, or C) pre-select a WR/target (because you don't believe you'll have time to let the long-developing play develop)

 

2) When your receivers can't get open/can't get enough separation for a safe throw, you 1) become indecisive; 2) become impatient; 3) are forced to throw the ball into perilously tight windows

 

Problem 1 is a product of the mediocre line.  The line played very well at times on Monday night.  However, the line is still looking for some consistency.

 

The line also did a better job of avoiding penalties.  Only 1 holding penalty called, if I recall correctly?  

 

Problem 2 stems from the fact that Pep is not qualified to be a NFL OC yet.

 

He may be a fine assistant, but the OC role is too big for him to handle.  He gets out-schemed way too easily.  And he continues to make things way too hard for his QB.

 

1. There are many more examples against this than there are for.  Plenty of times he goes through his progressions and still throws to a covered receiver, which means he had the time.  He locks onto his target way to much, he doesn't pump fake or look off defenders at all.  He gets the time to throw to the quick routes that are usually open, but he never seems to want to do that when it is needed most.

 

2.  This is a complete fallacy.  Last night I saw numerous instances where receivers were open.  Are you really going to blame Dwayne Allen when Luck cant throw to him while he is standing still?  he threw it way behind, after he had already stopped.  Luck does not take what the defense gives him and goes for way to much way to often.  Even when TY gets open, he can't seem to see him or get it to him.  I watched TY throw his arms up in frustration at one point because he was so open and luck didn't even look his way and instead overthrew into coverage.

 

Lets get over this blaming everyone else nonsense.  Luck is the reason we have been in a hole every single game, it isn't until the second half he goes and visits the wizard and gets a brain.

[King Colt]

Luck can't throw the ball on target. The play calling is predictable as any in the NFL. The Colts are a disgrace.

[will426]

I really love that stupid, slow developing, draw play that we run out of the shotgun that just literally wastes a down each and every time.

lol I used to hate when Peyton did his draw plays but these are even worse

[will426]

And what do you know TENN HAS FIRED THIER HC why the hell don't we make moves!!

[DougDew]

I really don't understand pep clearly game planned for when luck wasn't in and we saw what he could actually do yet he refuses to use those plays with luck? How does a Gm or Coach even allow this guy to make these decisions

Part of this is on Luck. At one point in a Hesslebeck game, the announcers pointed out that MH audibled at the LOS after noticing the CB was playing 10 yards off of TY. MH simply signaled to TY and threw a dart to him standing at the LOS, and TY was able to move forward for a 7 yard gain. MH took the 7 yards the defense was giving him. TY also understood the signal and the situation.

I don't think Luck is necessarily stubborn and won't do it, I don't think Luck has ever been taught to do that. He's not prepared to look for that kind of option.

[tikyle]

The sooner we get Pep out of there, the better.  I think Arians would have been great for Luck.  

Do you realize all the crying that people are making about Pep's calls is the same thing Arians calls?  Go back and watch Luck rookie year or just watch Arizona this year.  Everything is downfield.  Home run or strike out.  If anything I would blame Arians for how Luck is playing now.  Even when guys are open underneath Luck looks downfield for the home fun.  On the last drive of regulation Luck almost threw a pick at TY when Fleener was wide open underneath for a first down.  It's all boom or bust!

 

I'm tired of all this blame the play calling stuff.  Luck is horrible.  The playcalling last night was fine.  Luck was playing atrocious, I have no problem running the ball 8 times straight (especially when it produced 3 first downs) and not attempting a pass.  Luck can't hit a guy in stride when he has time.  You really think he's going to be effective throwing on the run?  Sometimes you guys on here really make me question your logic!!!  ENOUGH.  It starts with Luck, then the offensive line and trickles down.  It's not Pep, not Manusky!

[B~Town]

1. There are many more examples against this than there are for.  Plenty of times he goes through his progressions and still throws to a covered receiver, which means he had the time.  He locks onto his target way to much, he doesn't pump fake or look off defenders at all.  He gets the time to throw to the quick routes that are usually open, but he never seems to want to do that when it is needed most.

 

2.  This is a complete fallacy.  Last night I saw numerous instances where receivers were open.  Are you really going to blame Dwayne Allen when Luck cant throw to him while he is standing still?  he threw it way behind, after he had already stopped.  Luck does not take what the defense gives him and goes for way to much way to often.  Even when TY gets open, he can't seem to see him or get it to him.  I watched TY throw his arms up in frustration at one point because he was so open and luck didn't even look his way and instead overthrew into coverage.

 

Lets get over this blaming everyone else nonsense.  Luck is the reason we have been in a hole every single game, it isn't until the second half he goes and visits the wizard and gets a brain.

The fail here is epic

[will426]

Part of this is on Luck. At one point in a Hesslebeck game, the announcers pointed out that MH audibled at the LOS after noticing the CB was playing 10 yards off of TY. MH simply signaled to TY and threw a dart to him standing at the LOS, and TY was able to move forward for a 7 yard gain. MH took the 7 yards the defense was giving him. TY also understood the signal and the situation.

I don't think Luck is necessarily stubborn and won't do it, I don't think Luck has ever been taught to do that. He's not prepared to look for that kind of option.

I get that he struggles to read defences but the playcalls aren't helping Mh has the advantage of seeing everything lol I'll give him that. Luck needs this playbook dumbed down for his sake or he needs to be able to escape the pocket to throw like Wilson does in Seattle. I'm talking about designed plays where your qb runs to the right or left to pass instead of him taking that snap under center

[will426]

Do you realize all the crying that people are making about Pep's calls is the same thing Arians calls? Go back and watch Luck rookie year or just watch Arizona this year. Everything is downfield. Home run or strike out. If anything I would blame Arians for how Luck is playing now. Even when guys are open underneath Luck looks downfield for the home fun. On the last drive of regulation Luck almost threw a pick at TY when Fleener was wide open underneath for a first down. It's all boom or bust!

I'm tired of all this blame the play calling stuff. Luck is horrible. The playcalling last night was fine. Luck was playing atrocious, I have no problem running the ball 8 times straight (especially when it produced 3 first downs) and not attempting a pass. Luck can't hit a guy in stride when he has time. You really think he's going to be effective throwing on the run? Sometimes you guys on here really make me question your logic!!! ENOUGH. It starts with Luck, then the offensive line and trickles down. It's not Pep, not Manusky!

stop that is not true Ariana offense was down field but hell everyone could get open! He helped us get open period whether it was downfield or not we completed passes and weren't invisible for 3 qtrs. His worse knack was getting luck sacked 24/7 and peps doing that and more