DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[amfootball]

Holy Moses.  What you seem to be suggesting is that the NFL should have to protect the Patriots from its own deceitful nature.  They gauged them and found they were in compliance before the game.  When someone checks off a compliance issue, that should be the end of the inquiry.  It's not the referee or NFL's job to play detective and uncover all conceivable tampering.  If something tests out okay, you should be able to rely on the fact that no fraud was imminent.  That's the thing about fraudulent behavior, it has an element of deceit.  

So Wait. Had the game been say 27-24 and the Colts lost, you would have been Ok with the league not telling the Pats to ensure proper inflation or at the very least gauging before kickoff and re-inflating to ensure a level playing field for an ENTIRE half?

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Most here have read the report and get it.

The real question is what will it take for you to get it?

Tom Brady could step up to the podium and make a full confession and she would say "Someone was holding a gun to his back - didn't you see that shadow behind him?"

[Happy2BeHere]

It's human nature to compare everything to "poop"....I mean after all it stinks!

[jvan1973]

DW, I am just arguing the report that has to prove it. This thing is a pile of poop. Have you actually read it?

they have enough proof to hand down discipline. Don't kid yourself about that

[amfootball]

they have enough proof to hand down discipline. Don't kid yourself about that

I think they will punish but they will have a dog fight with the PA on this one if they go over the top with this pile of poop backing them .. we will see if Roger and Vincent are ready for that mess.

[Surge89]

Pfft if someone is driving drunk it is absolutely the responsibility of the local police force to alert them of a nearby checkpoint so the drunk driver can use an alternate route! (Sarcasm folks)

 

OHHHHH of course... I have no clue how I missed that everyday common practice that sensible people with common sense and a brain do... thank you for bring me from the dark hole that I live in and into the light.  Thank you! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

 

Um. no. There were two sets of measurements and the second set had every one of the Colts balls below 12.5 but they also had to throw out the third ball measurement because they screwed it up.

 

 

 

 

 

You are unbelievable.

 

Exponent believes they transposed the two ref's gaugings because it's an anamoly for Blakeman's reading to be lower than Prioleau's. That doesn't invalidate the recorded reading, and it doesn't change the fact that the recorded readings were all within compliant range, and all significantly higher than the Pats' readings. Even when you switch it back, all four of Blakeman's readings were compliant. Come on, do better.

[Surge89]

I think they will punish but they will have a dog fight with the PA on this one if they go over the top with this pile of poop backing them .. we will see if Roger and Vincent are ready for that mess.

 

Lol no they won't

[dw49]

I don't think the league mandated or can mandate that Brady turn over his private phone. He and the Pats said they'd cooperate fully with the league's investigation, and they didn't (Brady's phone, the Pats not making whatshisname available for the fifth follow-up interview), so it doesn't reflect well on him. And I could see the league taking that into consideration as they decide how to proceed. But it's not obstruction of justice or anything like that. 

 

If my job was investigating me for something and they asked to go through my phone records, I wouldn't be required to allow them to do that. If they threatened to fire me, I'd probably lawyer up.

 

Part of the problem now is everyone thinks Kraft is this wonderful guy and doe are actually listening to his absurd rants. The nerve of that man saying an independent investigation was "fixed" against his team. Crying out for "hard evidence" .... it's really laughable. People are getting the death sentence on circumstantial evidence when the criteria is "beyond a reasonable doubt." Here you have evidence that I'd say is about 95% that Brady was smack dab in the middle and these people are angry at the report's finding... "PROBABLE" is the word they use. That if anything is totally giving Brady and NE the benefit of the doubt. 

 

I'm really just flabbergasted listening to NE fans and some of these talking heads defending Brady and Kraft as we speak.

[Gramz]

Holy Moses.  What you seem to be suggesting is that the NFL should have to protect the Patriots from its own deceitful nature.  They gauged them and found they were in compliance before the game.  When someone checks off a compliance issue, that should be the end of the inquiry.  It's not the referee or NFL's job to play detective and uncover all conceivable tampering.  If something tests out okay, you should be able to rely on the fact that no fraud was imminent.  That's the thing about fraudulent behavior, it has an element of deceit.  

^^THIS     Totally.

 

I have compliance reviews periodically at my job.  I never know what dates they're going to look at,  what paperwork etc will be checked..    IF they randomly check 3 weeks worth, and it all checks out....  then I get a passing grade and a job well done.   They don't continue to look hoping they might find something amiss.   I have never had a problem, because I always have everything in order and on the up and up.

 

Now, if something was amiss out of those 3 random weeks they check, they might continue to check into other weeks to see if there is anything else out of compliance....     

[amfootball]

You are unbelievable.

 

Exponent believes they transposed the two ref's gaugings because it's an anamoly for Blakeman's reading to be lower than Prioleau's. That doesn't invalidate the recorded reading, and it doesn't change the fact that the recorded readings were all within compliant range, and all significantly higher than the Pats' readings. Even when you switch it back, all four of Blakeman's readings were compliant. Come on, do better.

Like I said, a mess. "Believes they transposed them"  More uncertain language again ...

 

This could not have been more sloppy ...

[Gramz]

Like I said, a mess. "Believes they transposed them"  More uncertain language again ...

 

This could not have been more sloppy ...

One Question.

Do you believe Brady is innocent?

[Superman]

Like I said, a mess. "Believes they transposed them"  More uncertain language again ...

 

This could not have been more sloppy ...

 

What difference does it make? Both readings were compliant.

 

You're making yourself look bad, AM. Seriously.

[amfootball]

Part of the problem now is everyone thinks Kraft is this wonderful guy and doe are actually listening to his absurd rants. The nerve of that man saying an independent investigation was "fixed" against his team. Crying out for "hard evidence" .... it's really laughable. People are getting the death sentence on circumstantial evidence when the criteria is "beyond a reasonable doubt." Here you have evidence that I'd say is about 95% that Brady was smack dab in the middle and these people are angry at the report's finding... "PROBABLE" is the word they use. That if anything is totally giving Brady and NE the benefit of the doubt. 

 

I'm really just flabbergasted listening to NE fans and some of these talking heads defending Brady and Kraft as we speak.

DW, this whole thing back in Jan. and then the 4 ridiculous months ... and now with this report with more waffling language than Brian Williams is a joke ... a complete joke.

[OffensivelyPC]

So Wait. Had the game been say 27-24 and the Colts lost, you would have been Ok with the league not telling the Pats to ensure proper inflation or at the very least gauging before kickoff and re-inflating to ensure a level playing field for an ENTIRE half?

First, the score has absolutely nothing to do with anything - at least in that game.  It's irrelevant.  Now, to your question.  It's only one question, but there's a few elements involved.  First, the intercepted football was noticeably underinflated according to D'Qwell Jackson.  He told Colts staff and it eventually found its way to the officials and NFL Game  Ops representatives.  Had no one noticed the football was not properly inflated and no tests at half time were done, then yeah, I would have been okay with it.  If we could have known the balls were underinflated and did nothing, then I don't expect the NFL to reinvestigate the balls at halftime.  But they were prompted.  

 

So that leads me to the next element, if you will. When they were notified of the potentially non-compliant football, they retested.  I don't see why the Patriots needed to be notified that their footballs need to be re-examined for a potential compliance issue when the Patriots were the ones that might have caused the non-compliance.  As has been stated before, if the balls were compliant according to the first testing, there's really not a need to re-check them unless a question is later raised that the ball is not compliant.  That's new information not previously known, so you correct the issue.  The fact that the non-compliance later turned out to be "more likely than not" fraudulent conduct is on the Patriots and no one else.  If the referees found the balls to be non-compliant and did nothing, then yeah, I'd have a problem with that.  But they did exactly what they were supposed to do - they reinflated the footballs.

[NewColtsFan]

So Wait. Had the game been say 27-24 and the Colts lost, you would have been Ok with the league not telling the Pats to ensure proper inflation or at the very least gauging before kickoff and re-inflating to ensure a level playing field for an ENTIRE half?

 

You got stung.    And the sting hurts.    I get that.

 

But let's not shift blame from the Patriots getting caught to "why didn't the NFL tell the Patriots NOT to do this before the game"...

 

Doesn't that kind of thing simply go without saying.....     is it necessary to send out an e-mail saying "Dear Patriots,  please don't cheat.    Because if you get caught cheating,  we're going to have to nail you.   And that wouldn't be good for anyone.   Sincerely yours,  The NFL"

 

Because basically,  that's your argument.....

[GoPats]

It is a tragedy when a rolemodel for MANY people, bold face lies to their fans.  They are under a microscope 24/7, and when you lie to protect something you have done wrong, you inherently make your image more important than those whom look up to you.  (which ends up backfiring when you are caught.)

I was brought up that lying about doing something wrong is worse than the act itself.  For many reasons.

 

I respect your opinion but wholeheartedly disagree. We're talking about a game here. And we know far, far less about professional athletes and the types of people they are than most believe. 

[dw49]

DW, I am just arguing the report that has to prove it. This thing is a pile of poop. Have you actually read it?

 

 

It really doesn't have to PROVE it when they say in in all probability happened. How in God's name would you PROVE it other than have  a recording or at least a video of Brady instructing the 2 guilty guys to deflate the balls. Are those two denying that let air out of the balls ? There's film of the bathroom trip. The text messages ... on and on and on. If this were a trial , the jury would be out about an hour. They convict all the time on circumstantial evidence , motive and common sense. There is very often no direct proof . 

 

So motive ... yes

Circumstantial evidence and reasonable thought process on this.. yes again.

 

I cannot believe you for a minute think this didn't happen.

[amfootball]

What difference does it make? Both readings were compliant.

 

You're making yourself look bad, AM. Seriously.

Honestly Superman, I don't care. I think the Pats could have done something and maybe for a long time back to 2006 BUT this whole thing has been the height of ridiculous. Remember we are talking about air pressure. A 25k fine by the book. And we have a title game played with what might have been non-compliant balls in which the refs were giving a heads up by Grigson the day before. Inexcusable. I am sorry. Inexcusable. Then this ridiculous 200+ page report (Ray Rice report was 95 pages btw) 100 days later. 100 days. And what we get is we think, probably, might have been aware... and then the ridiculous handling of the balls and the inconsistent gauging ... this is a complete joke. I do feel bad for Colts fans as I think you were robbed of a fair first half and that is the league's fault for not gauging before kick-off. And it stinks for the Pats because this report is bogus ...

[PeterBowman]

so how long has Brady been benefitting from the deflated balls?

[Swan Ronson]

In summary. Pats victims, NFL to blame.

[GoPats]

 

 

Brady's agent said much of his testimony was left out of the report so I would first like to hear from Brady himself before calling him a liar. It is obvious that this report was crafted in a way to support a certain conclusion but lacks the necessary proof to come to any definitive conclusion either way.

 

 

We'll find out I guess. I've seen enough to know what I believe though. At this point it would take a miraculous turn of events, or some kind of internal scandal involving Kensil and others, and I don't see that happening. 

[Happy2BeHere]

From the NFL.com "Key Takeaways from Ted Wells report"

 

» Brady claimed during his interview that he did not know McNally's name or his game-day responsibilities. McNally received two autographed footballs and an autographed jersey from Brady on January 10, 2015. Jastremski received various items of value from Brady during the years including cash tips (common practice), gift cards, memorabilia, etc.

 

 

Coincidence??

[amfootball]

It really doesn't have to PROVE it when they say in in all probability happened. How in God's name would you PROVE it other than have  a recording or at least a video of Brady instructing the 2 guilty guys to deflate the balls. Are those two denying that let air out of the balls ? There's film of the bathroom trip. The text messages ... on and on and on. If this were a trial , the jury would be out about an hour. They convict all the time on circumstantial evidence , motive and common sense. There is very often no direct proof . 

 

So motive ... yes

Circumstantial evidence and reasonable thought process on this.. yes again.

 

I cannot believe you for a minute think this didn't happen.

Have you read it?

[aaron11]

Remember we are talking about air pressure.

deflated balls are easier to throw, catch and hold on to.  its an advantage on the field.

[Happy2BeHere]

Honestly Superman, I don't care. I think the Pats could have done something and maybe for a long time back to 2006 BUT this whole thing has been the height of ridiculous. Remember we are talking about air pressure. A 25k fine by the book. And we have a title game played with what might have been non-compliant balls in which the refs were giving a heads up by Grigson the day before. Inexcusable. I am sorry. Inexcusable. Then this ridiculous 200+ page report (Ray Rice report was 95 pages btw) 100 days later. 100 days. And what we get is we think, probably, might have been aware... and then the ridiculous handling of the balls and the inconsistent gauging ... this is a complete joke. I do feel bad for Colts fans as I think you were robbed of a fair first half and that is the league's fault for not gauging before kick-off. And it stinks for the Pats because this report is bogus ...

 

Exactly...I don't need to say anything more here.

[amfootball]

deflated balls are easier to throw, catch and hold on to.  its an advantage on the field.

Also a disadvantage in terms of velocity and distance. A higher inflated ball with travel faster and farther than a deflated one ...

[jvan1973]

I think they will punish but they will have a dog fight with the PA on this one if they go over the top with this pile of poop backing them .. we will see if Roger and Vincent are ready for that mess.

The texts alone is enough to show lack of control of their employees at the very least. Punishment is forth coming.

[Superman]

Honestly Superman, I don't care. I think the Pats could have done something and maybe for a long time back to 2006 BUT this whole thing has been the height of ridiculous. Remember we are talking about air pressure. A 25k fine by the book. And we have a title game played with what might have been non-compliant balls in which the refs were giving a heads up by Grigson the day before. Inexcusable. I am sorry. Inexcusable. 

 

Yes, it's inexcusable that Tom Brady cheated.

 

Then this ridiculous 200+ page report (Ray Rice report was 95 pages btw) 100 days later. 100 days. And what we get is we think, probably, might have been aware... 

 

Two things:

 

1) There could be incontrovertible proof based on video and forensic evidence, and you'd still deny this. That's become obvious over your past dozen posts or so.

 

2) They interviewed dozens of people, reviewed months of phone records, commissioned independent expert analysis, etc... The conclusion is obvious for everyone without an agenda. There is no "might" about it. They're giving Brady the benefit of the doubt saying "more probable than not." The investigation is cut and dry.

 

and then the ridiculous handling of the balls and the inconsistent gauging ... this is a complete joke. I do feel bad for Colts fans as I think you were robbed of a fair first half and that is the league's fault for not gauging before kick-off. And it stinks for the Pats because this report is bogus ...

 

It's not the league's fault. It's the Patriots' fault for cheating.

 

I'm not surprised that you're trying to pass the buck, all said. But you're doing a really, really bad job of it. It's comical. I know I'm wasting my time even responding to this, but I can't sit back and watch you spout this blatantly unrealistic and defiant nonsense. I should, but I can't. 

 

Long and short, the Pats cheated. If they hadn't cheated, none of this would have happened. The "ridiculous" 243 page report, the "ridiculous" handling of the balls, etc. What's really ridiculous is that the Patriots -- primarily, Tom Brady -- cheated. Cheated. You don't get to blame other people for this.

[lollygagger8]

This has moved from Deflategate to Deflectgate

 

Exactly!! 

 

An error occurred

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

[Happy2BeHere]

deflated balls are easier to throw, catch and hold on to.  its an advantage on the field.

 

That's what she said... 

 

oh wait, no...no she didn't. 

[lollygagger8]

Honestly Superman, I don't care. I think the Pats could have done something and maybe for a long time back to 2006 BUT this whole thing has been the height of ridiculous. Remember we are talking about air pressure. A 25k fine by the book. And we have a title game played with what might have been non-compliant balls in which the refs were giving a heads up by Grigson the day before. Inexcusable. I am sorry. Inexcusable. Then this ridiculous 200+ page report (Ray Rice report was 95 pages btw) 100 days later. 100 days. And what we get is we think, probably, might have been aware... and then the ridiculous handling of the balls and the inconsistent gauging ... this is a complete joke. I do feel bad for Colts fans as I think you were robbed of a fair first half and that is the league's fault for not gauging before kick-off. And it stinks for the Pats because this report is bogus ...

 

I  thought you would've moved past the denial stage by now. 

[21isSuperman]

Honestly Superman, I don't care. I think the Pats could have done something and maybe for a long time back to 2006 BUT this whole thing has been the height of ridiculous. Remember we are talking about air pressure.

We could be talking about wearing the wrong socks.  Regardless of what it is, the point is the rules are in place and Brady knew them.  The evidence suggests Brady went out of his way to bend the rules and play by his own rules.  Regardless of what we're talking about, the point is Brady tried cheating.  The rules are there for a reason.

 

A 25k fine by the book.

It gets a little trickier when you're dealing with repeat offenders.

 

And we have a title game played with what might have been non-compliant balls in which the refs were giving a heads up by Grigson the day before. Inexcusable. I am sorry. Inexcusable.

What?

 

Then this ridiculous 200+ page report (Ray Rice report was 95 pages btw) 100 days later.

What does the length of it have to do with anything? 

 

100 days. And what we get is we think, probably, might have been aware... and then the ridiculous handling of the balls and the inconsistent gauging ... this is a complete joke. I do feel bad for Colts fans as I think you were robbed of a fair first half and that is the league's fault for not gauging before kick-off.

More accurately, it's Brady's fault for going out of his way to bend the rules

 

And it stinks for the Pats because this report is bogus ...

Oh boy....

[OffensivelyPC]

Honestly Superman, I don't care. I think the Pats could have done something and maybe for a long time back to 2006 BUT this whole thing has been the height of ridiculous. Remember we are talking about air pressure. A 25k fine by the book. And we have a title game played with what might have been non-compliant balls in which the refs were giving a heads up by Grigson the day before. Inexcusable. I am sorry. Inexcusable. Then this ridiculous 200+ page report (Ray Rice report was 95 pages btw) 100 days later. 100 days. And what we get is we think, probably, might have been aware... and then the ridiculous handling of the balls and the inconsistent gauging ... this is a complete joke. I do feel bad for Colts fans as I think you were robbed of a fair first half and that is the league's fault for not gauging before kick-off. And it stinks for the Pats because this report is bogus ...

This isn't about air pressure anymore.  It became about Tom's integrity the second Brady denied any involvement or knowledge of intentionally deflated footballs or knowing who McNally was.  Because the evidence presented in the Wells report probably refutes that and probably means Tom lied to the NFL and everyone on national television about how he safeguards the integrity of his profession.

[csmopar]

Have you read it?

Again....have you....obviously not.  each and every one of your post has been nothing but well dribble filled nonsense. That, or you are so deep in denial that you can't see the obvious, even with it smacking you squarely in the face..... 

[jvan1973]

Honestly Superman, I don't care. I think the Pats could have done something and maybe for a long time back to 2006 BUT this whole thing has been the height of ridiculous. Remember we are talking about air pressure. A 25k fine by the book. And we have a title game played with what might have been non-compliant balls in which the refs were giving a heads up by Grigson the day before. Inexcusable. I am sorry. Inexcusable. Then this ridiculous 200+ page report (Ray Rice report was 95 pages btw) 100 days later. 100 days. And what we get is we think, probably, might have been aware... and then the ridiculous handling of the balls and the inconsistent gauging ... this is a complete joke. I do feel bad for Colts fans as I think you were robbed of a fair first half and that is the league's fault for not gauging before kick-off. And it stinks for the Pats because this report is bogus ...

Actually its the pats fault, they are the ones that took air out of the balls. But keep deflecting blame, its entertaining

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Guys - I think we've given AMfootball enough attention here.  I'm stepping away.  

 

1.  She doesn't listen to or respond to valid, logical or legal points.

2.  She is looking for attention so personally I won't give it to her any more.

3.  I feel sad for her...

[Jason_]

Honestly Superman, I don't care. I think the Pats could have done something and maybe for a long time back to 2006 BUT this whole thing has been the height of ridiculous. Remember we are talking about air pressure. A 25k fine by the book. And we have a title game played with what might have been non-compliant balls in which the refs were giving a heads up by Grigson the day before. Inexcusable. I am sorry. Inexcusable.

 

[amfootball]

 

 

 

 

It's not the league's fault. It's the Patriots' fault for cheating.

 

 

 

Wow. I am surprised by this statement from you. The league was given a heads up about the Pats and the air pressure and did nothing until half time of a title game. If you are fine with that than I guess our discussion is over.

[Happy2BeHere]

There's a lot of air pressure problems in this forum...mostly on the opposing side. I think they might be over-inflated.