Bjoern Werner

[ColtStronger]

I'm starting to get tired of how unproductive he has been. He has given us no pass rush recently. In the draft Xavier Rhodes my dream pick was there and we took Werner and now Rhodes looks like a top ten corner. Will Bjoern ever work as a 4-3 in a 3-4?

I wanted us to get Xavier Rhodes also, and I must say I'm tired of him being unproductive as well.  He had a couple good games after the first quarter of the season to get people off his back, but recently I haven't heard a peep from him.  I think people need to start getting on his case again, maybe that'll spark him up a bit?

[theanarchist]

I'm starting to get tired of how unproductive he has been. He has given us no pass rush recently. In the draft Xavier Rhodes my dream pick was there and we took Werner and now Rhodes looks like a top ten corner. Will Bjoern ever work as a 4-3 in a 3-4?

Werner belongs on the other side of the defense I think. More of an edge setter. Doesn't seem to have a lot of pass rush moves but still I think he has been solid. Not spectacular. I think we probably look for another Rush LB in the draft.

[Defjamz26]

I could be proved wrong come draft time, but I think Newsome is the future at Rush OLB. Werner is an excellent SAM backer. He's gotten really good at moving around in space and making tackles. Let him take the reigns after Mathis retires. A little more playing time and Newsome would be looking at like 8 sacks.

[Moopsiepuffs]

He's had a couple of good games this season but has been largely ineffective. He goes missing far too often. I wouldn't give up on him just yet, though.

[wesd2890]

he does fit the scheme

He was a 4-3 defensive end.. colts picked up and made him change position to fit our 3-4 scheme.. so he doesnt fit the scheme now.. and didnt fit it on draft day.

[Smonroe]

He was a 4-3 defensive end.. colts picked up and made him change position to fit our 3-4 scheme.. so he doesnt fit the scheme now.. and didnt fit it on draft day.

 

We're in a 4-3 as much or more than we're in a 3-4.  I get what you're saying though, he's not a coverage guy.  

[wesd2890]

We're in a 4-3 as much or more than we're in a 3-4. I get what you're saying though, he's not a coverage guy.

Yeah.. hard for a vet to change into a cover guy(ex. Dwight freeney) let alone a fresh rookie lol.. just saying he was a german guy that only played american football in college.. then we draft him and ask him to completely change the little game he did have.. it wasnt a very good 1st round pick IMO considering the other options.. not saying he cant be good now or in future.. but to much development needed for a 1st rounder

[Smonroe]

Yeah.. hard for a vet to change into a cover guy(ex. Dwight freeney) let alone a fresh rookie lol.. just saying he was a german guy that only played american football in college.. then we draft him and ask him to completely change the little game he did have.. it wasnt a very good 1st round pick IMO considering the other options.. not saying he cant be good now or in future.. but to much development needed for a 1st rounder

Drafting is always a crapshoot. let's assume that rush LB/DE was our targeted position. Who would have been an alternative?

I'm not saying that if you know everything you know now, that's not fair. Who would we have taken instead of Werner with the information we had at that time. Datone Jones? He hasn't exactly burned up the league.

Now, if you think we should have gone for a different position, that's a different story.

[wesd2890]

Drafting is always a crapshoot. let's assume that rush LB/DE was our targeted position. Who would have been an alternative?

I'm not saying that if you know everything you know now, that's not fair. Who would we have taken instead of Werner with the information we had at that time. Datone Jones? He hasn't exactly burned up the league.

Now, if you think we should have gone for a different position, that's a different story.

I agree with the position we targeted.. i personally would have taken a player that has played in our prototype type of scheme. Someone that didnt have to be completely retaught the game. Thats all.. but like you said its not fair to say if we knew now what we didnt then.

[Smonroe]

I agree with the position we targeted.. i personally would have taken a player that has played in our prototype type of scheme. Someone that didnt have to be completely retaught the game. Thats all.. but like you said its not fair to say if we knew now what we didnt then.

But who would that have been?

[dudeski]

He was a 4-3 defensive end.. colts picked up and made him change position to fit our 3-4 scheme.. so he doesnt fit the scheme now.. and didnt fit it on draft day.

thats how you get 3-4 olbers. Not many colleges play a 3-4.

He fits

[wesd2890]

But who would that have been?

Without knowing what i know now.. id say alec ogletree.. had a better 40 and is a little bigger..he played alot of coverage in college but was good at it.. not much of a pass rusher but i personally think its easier to teach pass rushing than it is zone coverages and man assignments, plus the footwork you need to drop on coverage.

[Archer]

I mocked Larry warford to us.  I'm just sayin'...

[Smonroe]

Without knowing what i know now.. id say alec ogletree.. had a better 40 and is a little bigger..he played alot of coverage in college but was good at it.. not much of a pass rusher but i personally think its easier to teach pass rushing than it is zone coverages and man assignments, plus the footwork you need to drop on coverage.

 

That may have been a good choice, I don't think he's asked to be a rush LB in ST. Louis.  

 

Either way, it's easy for us to say we should have taken someone else.  In actuality, it's a lot harder in real life.  

 

IMHO, Werner was as good a selection as any for that position.  Like Archer and many others, I wanted us to go O Line.  

[Jim H.]

If a frog had wings ... 

 

So, we have moved on from Richardson, and are now ganging up on Werner? 

 

Reminds me of Judge Smale's question to the guys playing "Go-Fish" at Bushwood Country Club.

 

"Don't you people have homes?"

[coltsfanatic24]

For a 1st round pick, Werner hasn't been playing good. I thought for sure that we we're going to draft Xavier Rhodes, he was the BPA at the time and at a greater position of need.

 

Werner just doesn't have the athleticism or explosiveness like most OLB's do, he's better suited in a 4-3. I've actually been more impressed with Newsome, he's more explosive and is a better fit as a OLB.

[BOTT]

For a 1st round pick, Werner hasn't been playing good. I thought for sure that we we're going to draft Xavier Rhodes, he was the BPA at the time and at a greater position of need.

 

Werner just doesn't have the athleticism or explosiveness like most OLB's do, he's better suited in a 4-3. I've actually been more impressed with Newsome, he's more explosive and is a better fit as a OLB.

Corner was not a bigger need than a pass rusher

[esmort]

Drafting is always a crapshoot. let's assume that rush LB/DE was our targeted position. Who would have been an alternative?

I'm not saying that if you know everything you know now, that's not fair. Who would we have taken instead of Werner with the information we had at that time. Datone Jones? He hasn't exactly burned up the league.

Now, if you think we should have gone for a different position, that's a different story.

 

I don't think we should have had a position we were locked into at a certain draft pick, if a highly rated player at a position we want isn't there we choose BPA or move down.

 

That being said I don't think that Grigson and Pagano were "settling" I think they thought they hit the jackpot when Werner was there at #24.

 

As I said earlier I was hoping for us to trade down.

[coltsfanatic24]

We had Mathis, Walden and Jerry Hughes, CB was a huge need. 

 

Corner was not a bigger need than a pass rusher

[BrentMc11]

I mocked Larry warford to us.  I'm just sayin'...

I did not do a mock, but I thought highly of Warford the entire way through our debates!  

[Smonroe]

I don't think we should have had a position we were locked into at a certain draft pick, if a highly rated player at a position we want isn't there we choose BPA or move down.

 

That being said I don't think that Grigson and Pagano were "settling" I think they thought they hit the jackpot when Werner was there at #24.

 

As I said earlier I was hoping for us to trade down.

I don't think they were settling either. They always say BPA, but we know that means best on our board. And I think they weigh the board on positions of need. For example, there's no way we're taking a QB in the first three rounds if at all even though they may be higher on everyone else's boards.

That draft is over so the debate is moot. werner brings some good things to the table, he's far from being a bust. In fact, he's done better than many players that were chosen before him.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I think he has improved from last year. I like he's run play this year, and his pass rush has been good sometimes and not soo good others, he seems to have a tough time disengaging at times from bigger OLmen. I think he will be better next year as he got better this year. He has a chance to be good, probably not great. He is a complementary piece not the stud pass rusher IMO.

[Jason_]

He was a 4-3 defensive end.. colts picked up and made him change position to fit our 3-4 scheme.. so he doesnt fit the scheme now.. and didnt fit it on draft day.

They also put him through all of the LB drills and were apparently more than satisfied with the results considering how quickly they got their pick to the podium.

bottom line is most 34 OLBs in the pros played 43 DE in college. Also, as far as I recall, the only experienced 34 OLB that was taken first round in that draft was Jarvis jones and he was taken a few picks before the colts were on the board.

[Superman]

He was a 4-3 defensive end.. colts picked up and made him change position to fit our 3-4 scheme.. so he doesnt fit the scheme now.. and didnt fit it on draft day.

 

He fits the scheme just fine. If you keep repeating "he was a 4-3 defensive end..." as if college DEs don't convert to OLBs in the pros all the time -- literally dozens, every season, with varying degrees of success -- you're going to convince me that you don't know what you're talking about, and that you don't care about reality.

[Gavin]

He fits the scheme just fine. If you keep repeating "he was a 4-3 defensive end..." as if college DEs don't convert to OLBs in the pros all the time -- literally dozens, every season, with varying degrees of success -- you're going to convince me that you don't know what you're talking about, and that you don't care about reality.

Not to mention he played plenty of stand up OLB at Florida State which he made is where he made the majority of his plays from

[wig]

He's not the player he was drafted to be.  Werner was a miss on Grigson's part IMO.  He isn't the rush LB for this scheme - he can play the strong side where I think he will be very good.  Its unfortunate that Grigson drafted him #1 given his skill set.  Dude played at Florida State while playing in the weak ACC and looked like a beast - but it was all brute strength not dynamic athleticism.  If he stays in this position he will be a 4-6 sack a year guy and that's not good enough for that position.

 

He was a miss and he will be very good in one post.  Impressive.

[jskinnz]

For a 1st round pick, Werner hasn't been playing good. I thought for sure that we we're going to draft Xavier Rhodes, he was the BPA at the time and at a greater position of need.

 

Werner just doesn't have the athleticism or explosiveness like most OLB's do, he's better suited in a 4-3. I've actually been more impressed with Newsome, he's more explosive and is a better fit as a OLB.

You need to explain how you know Rhodes was the bpa at the time of the colts pick.

[BOTT]

We had Mathis, Walden and Jerry Hughes, CB was a huge need.

Mathis is aging, walden is far from a premier pass rusher, and Hughes had showed very little.

You say CB was a huge need, but it's currently the strength of the defense, but whatever.

[ColtsBlueFL]

He's also pretty good in coverage and in space, even though he's not the fastest guy. I think he's done a good job setting the edge and containing the run, and lately has been getting better at disengaging and making stops in the run game. He's a pretty good Sam. He just isn't the pass rusher we hoped.

 

I really don't know how he's been in coverage.  I only get a few games (TV or in person) due to travel and location.  But I do know he was horrible cover fail on Roethlisburger to Heath Miller pass  that let the Steelers convert a 4th down completion for a back breaking touchdown. (as 3rd option on a 3 options only play). A defensive stop would have given us the ball down 44 - 34 with 5:00+ to go.  Instead it went to 51 - 34 and was pretty much sealed the game for the Steelers.

 

I was hoping for a little more a little earlier from a first round pick, but not that worried.  I think we have a couple other, bigger fish to fry...

[Superman]

I really don't know how he's been in coverage.  I only get a few games (TV or in person) due to travel and location.  But I do know he was horrible cover fail on Roethlisburger to Heath Miller pass  that let the Steelers convert a 4th down completion for a back breaking touchdown. (as 3rd option on a 3 options only play). A defensive stop would have given us the ball down 44 - 34 with 5:00+ to go.  Instead it went to 51 - 34 and was pretty much sealed the game for the Steelers.

 

I was hoping for a little more a little earlier from a first round pick, but not that worried.  I think we have a couple other, bigger fish to fry...

 

Maybe "pretty good" is a stretch, but he's okay in space and in coverage. He isn't a liability, when he's used on the edges and in the flats, which is usually how we use him. He positions himself well, keeping the receiver in between him and the sideline, even contesting and deflecting from time to time.