the mvp race

[Moose Of Woe]

In other news, Manning just threw a block on a TD run. That was.....interesting. Not as good as the bootleg a while back, though.

 

 

Edit: Nvm, knee was down so all for not. Manning went to get an IV after.

[Jules]

Not really sure. There is a lot of "good" to "very good" this year but not truly "great" or "wow" to me.

 

Guess we'll see in the in the last few weeks. I am sure Rodgers will bounce back though from today's game. Ouch.

[oldunclemark]

Lets not knee jerk from week to week. Its Rodgers or Watt and JJ wont make the post-season.

[Moose Of Woe]

I really don't think Gronk gets enough credit for a guy who plays his position as well as INHUMANLY possible. Though as great a TE as he is a QB is undeniably the most overall important position on a team. Sad that most wouldn't put him in the MVP discussion with Rodgahs. A lot of folks do for Watt, though (and rightfully so!) ...but he's as close to a one man defense as you'll have. (AND he can play TE, too!)

[Fx Stryker]

Brady, Manning, and Rodgers are all also on teams ranging from great/the best (NE) to good/above average at worst. (GB/DEN) 

 

Watt is on...the Texans. Not among the worst overall teams, but average at best.

 

That's a terrible reason to me. JJ is one of, if not the best player this season. And it's not a fluke. He was a monster last year. He deserves MVP.

[Moose Of Woe]

That's a terrible reason to me. JJ is one of, if not the best player this season. And it's not a fluke. He was a monster last year. He deserves MVP.

I think you misinterpreted what I wrote.

 

I'm saying you could argue what Watt has done is more impressive, considering he is not surrounded by talent like Brady, Rodgahs and Peyton are. He's done amazing things without much help to speak of.

 

Personally I put him (BARELY) behind Rodgahs. It's kindof a 1a 1b thing. Unlike the Manning/McNair nonsense this year you could legit have two MVPs.

[Fx Stryker]

I think you misinterpreted what I wrote.

 

I'm saying you could argue what Watt has done is more impressive, considering he is not surrounded by talent like Brady, Rodgahs and Peyton are. He's done amazing things without much help to speak of.

 

Personally I put him (BARELY) behind Rodgahs. It's kindof a 1a 1b thing. Unlike the Manning/McNair nonsense this year you could legit have two MVPs.

 

I see what you are saying now.

[IcEWoLF]

In my book JJ Watt should get it...

[MJD42]

Things have gotten interesting. Rodgers having that type of game has tightened the race between him and Brady. These last two games will determine much. GB has to go TB which could be tough for them as they have not played well on the road this year and then they end with Detroit which could be another loss and drop them to a WC. Brady has the Jets and the Bills and should put up a lot of stats vs both. That is they way I think the voting will go - split between Rodgers and Brady. Could be co-MVPs this year.

 

If I had a vote I would go with Watt. What a year he is having. Just amazing. He may get a few votes but he won't contend because the Texans won't make the post-season.

[braveheartcolt]

Watt, hands down. Or hands up perhaps! Brady is not in the running, nor is Luck, and nor should they be.

[sweetsurrender]

First time in a while where it feels like there is no clear cut MVP. If the Texans were going to the post-season, Watt would be the obvious choice but doubt he gets it. Comes down to Rodgers and Brady these last two games.

[Yehoodi]

One bad game. Rodgers has had a better overall season while on a much less impressive team than NE. Including a performance where he played lights out in a victory over NE.

 

A for effort, but Rodgers is the MVP and aside from Watt there is nothing to discuss.

 

Lets me get this straight . . . you down play the contribution to the season's resume of "one game" when it is a bad game and is it only one game and therefore not dispositive on the season . . . then in the same paragraph site one game as a positive impact on the season  . . . not sure which way you are swinging there Moose . . .

 

Yes Rodgers and the Packers did win head the head match up but that was at the end of a gauntlet of games against division winners that pats where on . . . and the game was close, came down to a few plays at the end of the game . . . its not like the Packers at home spanked the pats or had a comfortable win . . .

 

If you want to look at comfortable/spanking wins against winning teams look at some of the pats wins . . .

 

Yes I do believe that the head to head helps and can be a tiebreaker or a tad more, but when the other 15 games the resume is stronger for the losing player, then those 15 games trump the head to head . . . and after all is only one game . . . ;)   

[Defjamz26]

Watt isn't getting it. You can't purposely put a guy on offensive snaps just to get him MVP consideration and hope for him to win it. His offensive TD's mean nothing for 2 reasons:

 

1. Lineman catch TD passes all the time, it's nothing new. Only reason he has like 2 is because they try it more often

2. He's not paid to catch TD passes; he's paid to sack the QB, which he isn't leading the NFL in

 

Also, if he didn't win MVP the year he almost broke the single season sack record, I don't think he's getting it now. He's not even the best at his position this season. I think he's being overrated by the media.

 

Luck isn't getting it either. You don't turn the ball over like that and expect to win MVP. It'll go to either Brady or Rodgers.

[Yehoodi]

Rodgers helped GB beat the best team in the league by a mile. NE.

 

Take Rodgahs off GB and Brady off NE. Replace both QB's with mediocre ones. (Not GENO SMITH bad, just mediocre.)  I see GB in serious trouble and NE  being the second best overall team next to Seattle.

 

Kinda like Arizona...only they have a better D than NE at the expense of a BAD QB.

 

Really, you posted this? . . . what basis do you take this from? . . . pulling it out of a hat . . .

 

Hey for kicks, lets look at actual results and take a look at Matt Flynn . . . in 2010 Rodgers was out against the Pats, who where 14-2 that year and never loose at home, played Matt Flynn and those other "not so great packers teammates" went into Foxboro and barely lost 31-27 . . . . and then in 2011 when he got to play with these "we need a good QB" packers backup Flynn threw for a franchise record 6 TDs against Detroit . . .

 

Matt Flynn is not even a starter in the NFL but when he got to drive the Packers he nearly beat the pats at home and set franchise offensive records . . . so please do not hand me the "they need Rodgers" to be good, when actual results say otherwise . . .

 

The 52 players on the Packers who are not the starting QB are as good any another division leader . . .

 

As for who they have played . . . and has I have mentioned earlier in this thread . . . the packers have a losing record against their peers in the league while the pats have a winning record against their peers and winning teams and have not only played more games but have won nearly all of them handily . . .  as it stands now the pats have played 8 games with winning records (and 10 500 or north) and are 6-2  and 7-3 respectively  . . . while the Packers are 5 wining teams (6 500 or north) and are 2-3 and 3-3 respectively . . .

 

so Brady and the pats have had a tougher schedule won more games and more handily against the cream of the NFL

 

[GoPats]

How far back with the MVP award do you have to go before you find a winner who was not on a team that made the playoffs? 

 

Watt is already working uphill against the fact that the last player on D to win it was Lawrence Taylor nearly 30 years ago. 

 

I still think Rodgers will get it. He's got the Bucs on the road and finishes up at home against Detroit. As long as GB wins both of those games I can't see anyone else getting it. 

[JerodMayo51]

Brady has the Jets and the Bills and should put up a lot of stats vs both.

He won't put up a lot of stats against the Bills I don't think, their defense is one of the best in the league and they have one of the most talented defensive lines in football.

They shut Manning down through the air and just stopped Aaron Rodgers and the Packers dead in their tracks.

If the Bills had a QB, they'd be one of the top teams in the AFC.

The AFC East is strong this year, with the exception of the Jets.. Bills and Dolphins have beat some good teams and have been in the running for the playoffs all year long and down the stretch.

[JerodMayo51]

Yikes double post.. always happens from mY phone

[MJD42]

Brady has the Jets and the Bills and should put up a lot of stats vs both.

He won't put up a lot of stats against the Bills I don't think, their defense is one of the best in the league and they have one of the most talented defensive lines in football.

They shut Manning down through the air and just stopped Aaron Rodgers and the Packers dead in their tracks.

If the Bills had a QB, they'd be one of the top teams in the AFC.

The AFC East is strong this year, with the exception of the Jets.. Bills and Dolphins have beat some good teams and have been in the running for the playoffs all year long and down the stretch.

[rittdk01]

Watt is the best defensive player but obviously one defensive player cant help the team as much as a QB or Running back can.  Thats y defense almost never wins the heisman or MVP.  Cowboys running back most def is the MVP.

[Superman]

LOL, the Packers receivers dropped like 7 passes yesterday. Brady played like a bum for two and a half quarters, then threw a couple of TDs once they had already started to pull away. Brady is moving up the list, but it's still Rodgers.

Also, games like yesterday show why JJ Watt isn't going to win MVP. Two sacks, constant disruption, held an explosive offense to just 17 points, and they still never had a chance to win because they don't have a QB. For any non-QB to win, their team has to get on their back and win games. The Vikings won 10 games with Christian Ponder, and it's because after Percy Harvin got hurt, AP went hog and carried his team to the playoffs. Watt is amazing, and if MVP voting was like Heisman voting, he'd get recognition, and maybe even steal it, but he's not winning MVP.

[GoPats]

LOL, the Packers receivers dropped like 7 passes yesterday. Brady played like a bum for two and a half quarters, then threw a couple of TDs once they had already started to pull away. Brady is moving up the list, but it's still Rodgers.

Also, games like yesterday show why JJ Watt isn't going to win MVP. Two sacks, constant disruption, held an explosive offense to just 17 points, and they still never had a chance to win because they don't have a QB. For any non-QB to win, their team has to get on their back and win games. The Vikings won 10 games with Christian Ponder, and it's because after Percy Harvin got hurt, AP went hog and carried his team to the playoffs. Watt is amazing, and if MVP voting was like Heisman voting, he'd get recognition, and maybe even steal it, but he's not winning MVP.

 

The Packers are averaging nearly twice as many points per game at Lambeau than they are on the road. I'm sure that's not completely uncommon but it struck me as a very interesting stat/number.

 

Not sure if you saw the Pats/'Phins game but... played like a bum? Harsh! LOL...

 

The first play of the second half was a 35 yard seam route to Gronk. So you could say he picked up his game from halftime on. They were fortunate to be up a point at the break, but did a nice job of putting it away in the third quarter. 

 

Did you guys see Brady's 17-yard run? Unreal, lol! 

 

I agree with your rationale regarding Watt. A player's value is measured in the standings, first and foremost. As great as he's been this season, Watt hasn't saved the Texans. 

[Superman]

The Packers are averaging nearly twice as many points per game at Lambeau than they are on the road. I'm sure that's not completely uncommon but it struck me as a very interesting stat/number.

Not sure if you saw the Pats/'Phins game but... played like a bum? Harsh! LOL...

The first play of the second half was a 35 yard seam route to Gronk. So you could say he picked up his game from halftime on. They were fortunate to be up a point at the break, but did a nice job of putting it away in the third quarter.

Did you guys see Brady's 17-yard run? Unreal, lol!

I agree with your rationale regarding Watt. A player's value is measured in the standings, first and foremost. As great as he's been this season, Watt hasn't saved the Texans.

It's harsh. I shouldn't say like a bum, but not at an MVP level. I haven't watched the whole game yet, but it was a substandard performance, with several throws into the ground and little production. Rodgers wasn't good, either, but I think he was mostly betrayed by dropped passes. Can't have that against a pretty good defense.

[amfootball]

It's harsh. I shouldn't say like a bum, but not at an MVP level. I haven't watched the whole game yet, but it was a substandard performance, with several throws into the ground and little production. Rodgers wasn't good, either, but I think he was mostly betrayed by dropped passes. Can't have that against a pretty good defense.

He put up 24 unanswered in the second half. He did not play well in the first half for sure but Rodgers was awful all day vs Buffalo.

[Superman]

He put up 24 unanswered in the second half. He did not play well in the first half for sure but Rodgers was awful all day vs Buffalo.

"He"? You mean the Pats, right? Aided by a turnover and a FG after a stalled drive... right?

Not an MVP performance, either way. Rolling into this thread claiming that Brady is surpassing Rodgers after a pretty meh game is kind of strange. Of course, some of you thought more highly of Brady's MVP standing than I did even before this week. So Rodgers has an off game and loses, and now you feel like your point is stronger. I'm still not seeing it. But put Brady ahead of Manning at this point, I agree with that.

[dw49]

1) Rodgers

 

The field in no particular order. Murray , Brady ,Watts.

 

Not even close at this point in time.  

[dw49]

He put up 24 unanswered in the second half. He did not play well in the first half for sure but Rodgers was awful all day vs Buffalo.

 

 

I would bet everything I have that you didn't see 15 plays of the Buff GB game. I read that Buffalo and "drops" were the demise of Rodgers. Not for anything but there's nothing that kills an offense more than a bunch of drops.

[GoPats]

It's harsh. I shouldn't say like a bum, but not at an MVP level. I haven't watched the whole game yet, but it was a substandard performance, with several throws into the ground and little production. Rodgers wasn't good, either, but I think he was mostly betrayed by dropped passes. Can't have that against a pretty good defense.

 

I agree, not MVP level stuff. It's a weird year for the award. No clear front-runner. 

 

To be honest, I don't want Brady to win MVP this year. I know it's ridiculous and silly but... same as always, it just seems like the MVP's team never wins it all! Who was the last MVP to win a Super Bowl? Warner? 

[chad72]

I agree, not MVP level stuff. It's a weird year for the award. No clear front-runner. 

 

To be honest, I don't want Brady to win MVP this year. I know it's ridiculous and silly but... same as always, it just seems like the MVP's team never wins it all! Who was the last MVP to win a Super Bowl? Warner? 

 

For that very reason, I want Brady to win MVP .

[GoPats]

For that very reason, I want Brady to win MVP .

 

He's not worthy.  ;)

[dgambill]

I think there is a bit of overreaction on the Rodgers game....yes it was bad...he was off and his receivers were....and it came against a good pass defense...but to think that he is still not the best player in the league or most valuable to me seems silly. At least with him putting up similar numbers to Peyton no one is calling for him to retire though. His comments to relax the team....carrying them for almost 10 straight games with near perfect football...i mean he and Brady play a very similar brand of football....they don't always put up gowdy numbers but they always take care of the ball and throw tds and have high qbrs. I would imagine Rodgers has the better numbers but I haven't checked but to me there is no doubt that Brady has a better defense and special teams helping him when the offense struggles. Not that Rodgers isn't getting help...his team has played much better this year compared to years past but he has been consistantly great all year after that slow start...and unless he puts up a couple more stinkers here the next couple weeks I think voters have made their mind up.

[amfootball]

"He"? You mean the Pats, right? Aided by a turnover and a FG after a stalled drive... right?

Not an MVP performance, either way. Rolling into this thread claiming that Brady is surpassing Rodgers after a pretty meh game is kind of strange. Of course, some of you thought more highly of Brady's MVP standing than I did even before this week. So Rodgers has an off game and loses, and now you feel like your point is stronger. I'm still not seeing it. But put Brady ahead of Manning at this point, I agree with that.

Brady had two TDs, a pick and almost 300 yards passing with the Pats winning in a blow out. Even with a sub par first half, he more than made it up for it in the second half stopping all over the Fins.

 

Rodgers posted his worst performance statistically of the year against a team he/GB was expected to beat. I do think that tightens the race but a lot hinges on these next two games. He does not have a great history in TB losing there twice in his career with poor QBRs both games and the Pack have struggled on the road all year as well. Then he has Detroit at home which could decide the division and the last time he played them he put up 7 points in a loss. I think if he has another sub par performance and GB does not win division and the Pats go on to win their next two and finish the year with the best record in football, Brady will get the MVP. The Pats have a better strength of schedule and better strength of victory as well.

[Superman]

I agree, not MVP level stuff. It's a weird year for the award. No clear front-runner.

To be honest, I don't want Brady to win MVP this year. I know it's ridiculous and silly but... same as always, it just seems like the MVP's team never wins it all! Who was the last MVP to win a Super Bowl? Warner?

Yeah, I don't care about stuff like that. I think, if anything, it speaks to the quality of the team when one guy is so important to his team, maybe the roster isn't as solid overall. Like Peterson carrying the Vikings; they were never going to the Super Bowl. The 2010 Pats were flawed, but Brady was spectacular, etc.

[amfootball]

I would bet everything I have that you didn't see 15 plays of the Buff GB game. I read that Buffalo and "drops" were the demise of Rodgers. Not for anything but there's nothing that kills an offense more than a bunch of drops.

It is not my fault. The Red Zone never showed it really at all. lol. I probably saw about 15 plays all at the end though. RZ kept showing the Redskins. It was infuriating.

 

What did you think of them taking away RGs TD? What a horrific call to go with his horrific season. That guy could pay the refs and still not get a call.

[Yehoodi]

This post is probably better directed at your fellow Pats fans, some of whom are arguing that Brady "made" Moss or Gronkowski. I never said anyone made anyone, not in this thread or any other.

 

Fair point on the offensive line. It's an exaggeration to say that the only change was Gronk. My point was just that Brady's resurgence to high level QB play was reliant on the team around him getting better (most notably, Gronkowski getting going), and that undermines his candidacy for MVP. Doesn't nullify it, by any means. 

 

I hear where you are coming from one level . . . but at the same time I think if folks look at things in perspective one should not be faulted for having his teammates around him . . . all MVPs for the most part have all of their key parts around them when they get the award . . . the fact that Brady finally has some of his key parts around him should not diminish his accomplishment more that any other MVP candidate or winner . . . 

 

Yes Gronk is a key player and does help in many ways, but on the other hand he is really our only "star" on the offense outside of Brady . .. we lost our starting RB, have a RB that looks great in Blount but clear waivers, so its not like he was viewed as valuable by the other 31 teams . . . I love Edelman and he fits well in this offense, and Wright is solid . . . but if we look at the overall collection of talent as whole is really is not much better than GB . . .you have Lacy, Cobb and Nelson and I think the 3rd option the rookie lead the NCAAs in yards last year . . . so as a whole not exactly trailing behind the pats that much . . .

 

yes they make be some voters that will look at stat lines as opposed to contribution of the overall teammates and use Gronk contribution against him, but when one look at the whole, a clear different picture emerges . . .

[dw49]

It is not my fault. The Red Zone never showed it really at all. lol. I probably saw about 15 plays all at the end though. RZ kept showing the Redskins. It was infuriating.

 

What did you think of them taking away RGs TD? What a horrific call to go with his horrific season. That guy could pay the refs and still not get a call.

 

 

What I read on the RG3 call was that it's more of a bad rule that a bad call. He for sure did start to lose control of the ball before crossing the goal line. So by rule he had to gain control before he went out of bounds. Sure looked like a TD but I guess it was the proper call ?

[amfootball]

What I read on the RG3 call was that it's more of a bad rule that a bad call. He for sure did start to lose control of the ball before crossing the goal line. So by rule he had to gain control before he went out of bounds. Sure looked like a TD but I guess it was the proper call ?

Yeah, I never heard of that rule. Seemed odd and not sure it was called corrected. And then there was the holy roller call in the GB/Buffalo game that ended the game on a safety. It was a weird day for obscure rules.

[Yehoodi]

LOL, the Packers receivers dropped like 7 passes yesterday. Brady played like a bum for two and a half quarters, then threw a couple of TDs once they had already started to pull away. Brady is moving up the list, but it's still Rodgers.

Also, games like yesterday show why JJ Watt isn't going to win MVP. Two sacks, constant disruption, held an explosive offense to just 17 points, and they still never had a chance to win because they don't have a QB. For any non-QB to win, their team has to get on their back and win games. The Vikings won 10 games with Christian Ponder, and it's because after Percy Harvin got hurt, AP went hog and carried his team to the playoffs. Watt is amazing, and if MVP voting was like Heisman voting, he'd get recognition, and maybe even steal it, but he's not winning MVP.

 

I understand the point about qualifying games and interaction with teammates . . . I did seen on espn where there were 7 drops, but to me at least three of those were due to inaccurate passes imo, one to a RB who's body weight was taking him to the sidelines and the pass was to the inside, a pass to a TE who has position on the defender and the ball is thrown 2-3 yards to the sideline requiring the TE to dive and was not able to get the ball and then a ball thrown behind a TE and high near his shoulder which is not the easiest of catches, and seeing he was wide open a better throw should of been forthcoming . . .

 

at the same time we look at teammates contribution in one game one necessarily needs to do the same in another . . . surely Nelson dropped what looked to be a sure TD, I think he might of had too much time and tried to finesse it into his hands and catch it in perfect stride, and he kind of alligator arm the catch . . . so drop their that might effected the game . . . however on the other hand we have the Nelson catch at the end of the first half against NE, where his "interaction" with Revis cause the latter to fall back off balance, he catches ball and helped by a bad angle my McCourtney gets a TD, which happens like once a year in the NFL, then later Gronk drops a ball in the end zone at the end of the game, that if does not hit his facemask, he likely holds on to that ball . . . those two plays do not fall in the Packers lucky basket, we are looking at a NE win in Lambeau . . .  

 

So if we flip around the luck of the bounces and the holding on of the ball by a QB teammates, the Packer could of beaten the Bills but lost to the Pats and we still have a 10-4 Packers but a 12-2 Patriots and the MVP race looks a heck of a lot different than what some think it is presently . . .

 

so yes contributions by teammates is important and how it effects an MVP candidacy, but it can work both ways when one looks at all of the games . . .

[Yehoodi]

What I read on the RG3 call was that it's more of a bad rule that a bad call. He for sure did start to lose control of the ball before crossing the goal line. So by rule he had to gain control before he went out of bounds. Sure looked like a TD but I guess it was the proper call ?

 

yah it is a pretty straight forward call . . . if you ever get confused about a calls just think about other rules in the NFL and extrapolate then to the rule/play in question and or think what you think is fair and more often than not, you will come to the right answer before you need to go to the rule book or hear it on TV . . .

 

bottom line one only gets credit for when you have control of the ball in pretty much all of the NFL rules, if you do not have control you can not be credited with yards gained . . . you may notice this mostly in terms of a "good" catch, you first need control, then two feet in bounds and is it not till you have control plus two feet can it be deemed a catch and thus possession, so if a WR bobbles the ball while heading towards the sideline but does not gain control until near the sideline, then his second subsequent foot is out of bounds it is not a catch, even though he may have took steps whilst bobbling the ball . .  .

 

control also comes into play with forward progress, you get that forward point where you were first contacted by a defender and had control even tho the steps are behind that point (kind of like Kevin Faulk the 4th and 2 play bobbled the ball and the ref deemed he gain control at the 29.5 yard line)

 

if an offensive player looses control of the ball and it goes out of the back of the opponent's end zone it is a touchback for the defenders . .   

 

As with the above credit rules, one needs possession and have control when one crosses the plane of the end zone to be given a TD

 

now we look at RGIII move . . . as he was coming toward the end zone he bobbled the ball and lost control of the ball and now he looses credit at the point for any forward movement of the ball as he does not have control of the ball (basically deemed to have lost possession of the ball - you see this parallel with fumble reviews - did the runner loose control (possession) before being down) . . . if he subsequent down field regains control and possession then he is all set . . .

 

but as he looses control of the ball and lost his credit with the ball, he will need to regain possession of the ball to get his credit back or more specifically gain credit with the ball as he presently has none flying over the goaline, well since we are talking about possession we need to  revert back to the possession rules (control plus two feet in bounds) . . . the problem is that he didn't regain control of the ball until he was about to land out of bounds and like a WR he had control of the ball but did not get two feet in before touching out of bounds and therefore the ball is dead there, in the endzone out of bounds . . .

 

so we kind of have to put all of the above rules together to get to the end point, so what we have here in essence is a offensive player losing control of the ball and the ball landing out of bounds in the end zone (and no one including RGIII got possession of the ball before it was out of bounds in the endzone) . . . the play would be no different than if the ball came out of his hand rolled over the goal line and out of bounds . . . the fact that he was attached to it does not change us following the path of the ball and who did or did not have control and possesion of it . . .

 

many times a player will bobble a ball and regaind possession but it is not an issue as he is in the middle of the field and/or going in the end zone and gets two feet down in the field of play and then restarts his possession credit, a TD for being in the endzone and possession where on the field he is as the case may be . . .

 

I know this is kind of long but I hope it helps . . .. sometimes when you see a play on TV and there is confusion one has to piece together a couple of rules  . . . here were are looking at possession, lost possession, control, and a ball going out of bounds in the opponents end zone and so on . .  .

[Superman]

I understand the point about qualifying games and interaction with teammates . . . I did seen on espn where there were 7 drops, but to me at least three of those were due to inaccurate passes imo, one to a RB who's body weight was taking him to the sidelines and the pass was to the inside, a pass to a TE who has position on the defender and the ball is thrown 2-3 yards to the sideline requiring the TE to dive and was not able to get the ball and then a ball thrown behind a TE and high near his shoulder which is not the easiest of catches, and seeing he was wide open a better throw should of been forthcoming . . .

at the same time we look at teammates contribution in one game one necessarily needs to do the same in another . . . surely Nelson dropped what looked to be a sure TD, I think he might of had too much time and tried to finesse it into his hands and catch it in perfect stride, and he kind of alligator arm the catch . . . so drop their that might effected the game . . . however on the other hand we have the Nelson catch at the end of the first half against NE, where his "interaction" with Revis cause the latter to fall back off balance, he catches ball and helped by a bad angle my McCourtney gets a TD, which happens like once a year in the NFL, then later Gronk drops a ball in the end zone at the end of the game, that if does not hit his facemask, he likely holds on to that ball . . . those two plays do not fall in the Packers lucky basket, we are looking at a NE win in Lambeau . . .

So if we flip around the luck of the bounces and the holding on of the ball by a QB teammates, the Packer could of beaten the Bills but lost to the Pats and we still have a 10-4 Packers but a 12-2 Patriots and the MVP race looks a heck of a lot different than what some think it is presently . . .

so yes contributions by teammates is important and how it effects an MVP candidacy, but it can work both ways when one looks at all of the games . . .

That's quite a tornado of logic, IMO. I disagree with plenty of it, but no matter. End of the day, I don't think Brady's MVP candidacy is as strong as you do.

[Moose Of Woe]

Lets me get this straight . . . you down play the contribution to the season's resume of "one game" when it is a bad game and is it only one game and therefore not dispositive on the season . . . then in the same paragraph site one game as a positive impact on the season  . . . not sure which way you are swinging there Moose . . .

 

The point is the bad game is the exception, not the norm. Usually he plays good to great and the NE game was par for the course.