I Don't Get the Knock on Luck for Turning the Ball Over Too Much

[Defjamz26]

I know it's mostly Skip Bayless who is the main person who loves pushing this idea, but I've also seen a few fans saying he throws too many picks. His rookie year, I mean of course. What rookie doesn't usually have a high turnover margin. But I don't see it this season.

 

He has 11 INTs, but that's with 34 TDs. Not to mention that Matt Ryan has 10, Brees 11, and Peyton 9. Yet he leads the league in passing yards and is second only to Manning (36) in TD passes. It seems to me that everyone can't get over last seasons playoff run, with him throwing 7 in 2 games. But when you throw it a lot, you're bound to turn it over more. The other guys are mentioned are in the top 5 for passing yards along with Rothlisberger who has 8 INT's on the season.

 

Sure he has some BAD INT's at times but I think he's done a great job. 2012 18, the next year 9. Then this year he's at 11, but to 34 TDs so it balances out.

[GoColts8818]

Ryan and Brees arent exactly having great seasons so they don't help the arguement. Luck is a little wreck less with the football. I don't know if it's an issue of turning it over too much or more of an issue of turning it over more than he needs to by trying to make something out of nothing when he could just take a sack and live to play another down.

[Bobbycovert]

     He doesn't turn it over too much.  People who bring up Luck's turnovers usually do so without mentioning the volume of pass attempts and the production that comes along with the mistakes ( 4,000 yds, 34 TDs, etc).  His interception total is on par with all of the other elite quarterbacks besides Rodgers and Brady.  He's having a fantastic season and there's really not much to complain about but some people will always find a way.

[sfergson727]

Additionally, his first 4 of 5 interceptions were off deflected passes, he can't really take the blame for that.  I think Luck is doing a fine job this season.  I am a little irritated with the number of mishandled snaps that lead to fumbles though, but that, IMHO, is on Harrison.

 

(Put Shipley back in, for the love of Gad)

[sweetsurrender]

If he does not clean up his play, it will cost us in the post-season. I am not saying he will throw 7 picks again, gosh I hope not anyways. But every mistake is magnified so he has to play clean and make solid decisions every time. 

[Mitch Connors]

I think Luck is most of the way to being elite but he needs to learn when to give up on a play and throw the ball away. Last night pats vs packers I saw at least 5-6 passes thrown into the stands or out of the end zone. When was the last time you saw either from luck?

[crazycolt1]

If he does not clean up his play, it will cost us in the post-season. I am not saying he will throw 7 picks again, gosh I hope not anyways. But every mistake is magnified so he has to play clean and make solid decisions every time. 

Without Lucks play there would be no playoff games. A big part of his turnovers is the pressure he faces every game. Last night I seen Rogers have just about all the time he needed  for his receivers to clear. One play was at least 8-10 seconds. Luck has never had that much time in his short career. Sorry but when you lead the NFL in yardage and are in the top 3 in TDs he is making solid decisions.

[sweetsurrender]

Without Lucks play there would be no playoff games. A big part of his turnovers is the pressure he faces every game. Last night I seen Rogers have just about all the time he needed  for his receivers to clear. One play was at least 8-10 seconds. Luck has never had that much time in his short career. Sorry but when you lead the NFL in yardage and are in the top 3 in TDs he is making solid decisions.

Rodgers was pressured and when he was he rolled out and made plays outside of the pocket. He has the best TD/INT ratio in the game because he always makes good decisions even when pressured.

 

Luck is doing just fine. He is in year three but the criticism for his turnovers is not unfair. He has to clean up that part of his game. I don't think there is anything wrong with admitting that at this stage of his career. Or admitting that we would not be in the post-season without him. The two are not mutually exclusive. Just like every other team contending for the ring needs their QB to play well and not turn it over.

[ruksak]

Quite a few of his INT's have been tips that should have been caught or him getting hit as he threw. We cannot rationally and fairly discuss his turnovers without mentioning the lack of proper protection and his inordinately high amount of attempts. He's literally one of the most hit (if not THE most hit) QB's in the league over the last 3 years. 

[Defjamz26]

If he does not clean up his play, it will cost us in the post-season. I am not saying he will throw 7 picks again, gosh I hope not anyways. But every mistake is magnified so he has to play clean and make solid decisions every time. 

He seems to have cleaned it up, but you also have to look at the rest of the team. If we had a RB who could move the chains, then he wouldn't always have to be the one making the plays. He always has to throw. On top of that, the protection isn't good most of the time he throws (which is often) so turnovers are bound to happen.

[Bobbycovert]

I think Luck is most of the way to being elite but he needs to learn when to give up on a play and throw the ball away. Last night pats vs packers I saw at least 5-6 passes thrown into the stands or out of the end zone. When was the last time you saw either from luck?

 

Its funny you mention that Pats v Pack game.  There were several throws that were thrown away due to pressure where I couldn't help thinking "Luck would've made something happen there".  Not to say "something" is always better than a throw-away but it seems like we sometimes tend to focus on the bad decisions under pressure and forget about the great ones.

[Yoshinator]

He seems to have cleaned it up, but you also have to look at the rest of the team. If we had a RB who could move the chains, then he wouldn't always have to be the one making the plays. He always has to throw. On top of that, the protection isn't good most of the time he throws (which is often) so turnovers are bound to happen.

I was about to write something very similar to this. Luck had some help from Herron yesterday, and even those 8 carries (and 8 more from Trent) really made the offense multi dimensional. When you have an offense that can move the ball in more than one way, it takes the pressure off the QB and allows him to move the ball without having to pass it every down. You can mix up your playcalls and confuse the defense while still making Luck the centerpiece of the offense. We saw yesterday the beginning stages of what our offense could be, and how effective Luck could be with a solid RB and even an average running game. We need a solid RB in the draft next year, even if it's in the middle rounds to take pressure off Luck. Just think how good the offense can be with a solid running game and O-Line. That's just a taste of it yesterday.

[crazycolt1]

Rodgers was pressured and when he was he rolled out and made plays outside of the pocket. He has the best TD/INT ratio in the game because he always makes good decisions even when pressured.

 

Luck is doing just fine. He is in year three but the criticism for his turnovers is not unfair. He has to clean up that part of his game. I don't think there is anything wrong with admitting that at this stage of his career. Or admitting that we would not be in the post-season without him. The two are not mutually exclusive. Just like every other team contending for the ring needs their QB to play well and not turn it over.

If Rogers were hit as much as Luck he would obviously have a little more turnovers. Look at Luck's numbers. Your criticism is noted.

[Bluefire4]

I'm more worried about fumbles than interceptions as of late. He needs to study Aaron Rodgers and find a way to sense pressure and throw on the run, or just fall like Manning instead of getting the ball stripped.

[Valpo2004]

Luck is putting up Elite QB numbers but his turnovers show why he's only the #5 QB.  The other elite QB's have had similar production but with less turnovers.

 

I think the turnovers will go down over the years.  

[Draztik]

I think it's the way he gets his picks that irk people. His forcing to Wayne picks are probably the ones that ruffle the most feathers.

But then you step back and remember wow this kid is only in his 3rd year as a pro.

[Moose Of Woe]

Luck is the last player on the team I'm worried about. He's in his third season and makes some forced throws. He also often has a sieve for a line yet plays amazingly well.  He's a good QB who gets better every season.

 

Let's just get him an O-line and defense to go with our good special teams, please and win some championships. He's more than good enough to get the job done with a good team.

[Moopsiepuffs]

He often makes ill-advised throws when trying to keep plays alive instead of throwing it away or taking the sack. That's why a lot of balls are thrown high and tipped for INTs.

Anyone have his number of fumbles this year?

[sweetsurrender]

If Rogers were hit as much as Luck he would obviously have a little more turnovers. Look at Luck's numbers. Your criticism is noted.

Rogers line has not been good the last few years. He just isn't guy that ever forces it. He had 12 seconds one one play yesterday in the red zone and just ate it. He is soooo good at being patient and taking what is there. I think Luck will  progress although probably not to Rogers level. No one is at Rogers level other than Brady when it comes to pass attempts vs INTs.

[jskinnz]

I know it's mostly Skip Bayless who is the main person who loves pushing this idea, but I've also seen a few fans saying he throws too many picks. His rookie year, I mean of course. What rookie doesn't usually have a high turnover margin. But I don't see it this season.

He has 11 INTs, but that's with 34 TDs. Not to mention that Matt Ryan has 10, Brees 11, and Peyton 9. Yet he leads the league in passing yards and is second only to Manning (36) in TD passes. It seems to me that everyone can't get over last seasons playoff run, with him throwing 7 in 2 games. But when you throw it a lot, you're bound to turn it over more. The other guys are mentioned are in the top 5 for passing yards along with Rothlisberger who has 8 INT's on the season.

Sure he has some BAD INT's at times but I think he's done a great job. 2012 18, the next year 9. Then this year he's at 11, but to 34 TDs so it balances out.

I will preface this by saying there is not a qb I would rather have than luck. I think he will be this generation's Brady or manning. But it is clear that he makes some terrible decisions at times not all of which result in turnovers but bad ones nonetheless.

I would agree that as much as the colts throw and the downfield nature of his throws means there is more potential for bad things to happen but I think the turnover prone label is legit until he rights the situation.

[Mikemccoy84]

If we could come up with better interior line play I think that Luck would cut down on his mistakes a lot. That seemed to be the main difference in the Packers and Pats game most the pressure Rodgers had came from the outside but he still had places to move around to avoid it. Luck usually has pressure right in his face

[crazycolt1]

It just amazes me that the Colts are 8-4 with a 2 game lead in their division. Their 4 loses came to play off caliber teams. Luck has shined this whole season but some have a never ending line of negative criticism. The Colts have done some pretty amazing things with all considered. Four players left from a 2-14 team with two of those players being kickers. I know being a fan is a trying thing but football is a game that we all enjoy. When you get so wrapped up in it becomes a burden when your team don't play well you turn negative, there is something wrong. There is a fine line between passion for the game and being a fanatic. I love pro football but I cant grasp it dominating my life to the point of letting it become more than a game. I have been a Colt fan since the Raider "Ghost To The Post" loss with Bert Jones and the Sack Pack. Through all that time there is nothing that could happen good or bad that surprises. We as a whole have had a lot of bad times as a Colts fan. ( not in the last few years). Let's enjoy the good time and take the negative with a grain of salt so to say. Football is a fickle game at best. Sometimes it's not your Colt player messing up, it's the competitor playing better. As always, Go Colts!   

[crazycolt1]

Rodgers was pressured and when he was he rolled out and made plays outside of the pocket. He has the best TD/INT ratio in the game because he always makes good decisions even when pressured.

 

Luck is doing just fine. He is in year three but the criticism for his turnovers is not unfair. He has to clean up that part of his game. I don't think there is anything wrong with admitting that at this stage of his career. Or admitting that we would not be in the post-season without him. The two are not mutually exclusive. Just like every other team contending for the ring needs their QB to play well and not turn it over.

Rogers sat on the sidelines learning the game longer than Luck has been on the field. Big difference. Rogers more than likely is the best all around QB in the NFL but he has enough years under his belt on a good team that explains that. Luck didn't start out that way. So comparing the two is unfair in every way.

[ProblChld32]

In his defense 3 of those interceptions came off of tipped balls. 

[sweetsurrender]

Rogers sat on the sidelines learning the game longer than Luck has been on the field. Big difference. Rogers more than likely is the best all around QB in the NFL but he has enough years under his belt on a good team that explains that. Luck didn't start out that way. So comparing the two is unfair in every way.

You are the one that brought Rogers up.

[chad72]

Luck's issue is that his accuracy is not where he wants it to be. So, when he stares down like he stared down Reggie before releasing the ball, I was going "Reggie was blanked, what the heck did you see there to throw it", and lo behold, bad things happen when you throw to a wideout in coverage and it did.

 

There is nothing wrong in holding Luck accountable to a high standard because that is what he wants and that is what the fan wants. Another high throw to Reggie led to an INT in the Pats game too. If it were the Pats, they turn those opportunities into TDs. Good thing we were playing the Redskins yesterday.

[BullsColtsFan1]

It kinda sucks that Luck has 11 INT's and quite a few fumbles as well but you can't look past the 34 TD's and all the yards.  He runs when he has too and almost always gets positive yardage.  Most of the time his INT's and fumbles are because protection doesn't hold up.  If he had a half way decent line, most of them would be cleaned up.  I am not saying all of his INT's/Fumbles are the lines fault but the majority of them are in my opinion.  Skip Bayless is the main guy who hates on him and he has to find something negative about his game especially when Luck's leading the league in yardage, TD's and points per game. 

[crazycolt1]

You are the one that brought Rogers up.

Are you serious? You really think this is worth arguing over? We both said our opinions but you don't want to let it be. My comment about Rogers was in response to another poster, not you.

[TKnight24]

He's a Great Player which is a Gift & Curse

Great Players always believe they can make a play. Aaron Rodgers does it too along with Peyton & Brady

Rodgers almost threw a INT to Revis yesterday tryna force it to Nelson instead of throwing the all away

[Defjamz26]

Luck's issue is that his accuracy is not where he wants it to be. So, when he stares down like he stared down Reggie before releasing the ball, I was going "Reggie was blanked, what the heck did you see there to throw it", and lo behold, bad things happen when you throw to a wideout in coverage and it did.

 

There is nothing wrong in holding Luck accountable to a high standard because that is what he wants and that is what the fan wants. Another high throw to Reggie led to an INT in the Pats game too. If it were the Pats, they turn those opportunities into TDs. Good thing we were playing the Redskins yesterday.

 

I'm curious now as to what the INT numbers look like when you break them down based on who he was targeting. I'll agree that he often forces the ball to Reggie Wayne. I wonder how many of his INT's are when he's targeting Wayne?

[Valpo2004]

Quite a few of his INT's have been tips that should have been caught or him getting hit as he threw. We cannot rationally and fairly discuss his turnovers without mentioning the lack of proper protection and his inordinately high amount of attempts. He's literally one of the most hit (if not THE most hit) QB's in the league over the last 3 years. 

 

Ehh a lot of those tips where off balls that he threw too high though.  I think he's still at part responsible for those.  Throwing the ball up high when there are defenders behind your receiver is a risky move.  So I don't think he can be absolved completely from those int's.  

[chad72]

I'm curious now as to what the INT numbers look like when you break them down based on who he was targeting. I'll agree that he often forces the ball to Reggie Wayne. I wonder how many of his INT's are when he's targeting Wayne?

 

Yeah, it does seem like the lack of reliability with Fleener and Nicks has led Luck to his best reliable underneath option, Reggie Wayne. Reggie does not have the hops of 2 years ago, Luck and the Colts need to come to terms with it.

 

If I am the Colts, I'd be tempted to sign another guy that can play slot/outside too like an Eddie Royal or go after Jeremy Maclin in the offseason if Reggie is not re-signed. I never liked the Nicks move to begin with. Royal and Maclin create separation, whether they are in the slot or outside and Reggie and Nicks have not been doing as much this year.

[Superman]

Quite a few of his INT's have been tips that should have been caught or him getting hit as he threw. We cannot rationally and fairly discuss his turnovers without mentioning the lack of proper protection and his inordinately high amount of attempts. He's literally one of the most hit (if not THE most hit) QB's in the league over the last 3 years.

We must mention the hits and high attempts, but Luck isn't the most hit QB. I believe Cam Newton owns that distinction, by a long shot. Luck also invites some of the hits he takes by holding the ball and missing receivers, or opportunities to scramble.

And when it comes to batted or tipped passes, he's had just as many potential interceptions that were dropped by defenders, so it evens out. Besides, everyone suffers from the ill-fated tippped pass every now and then.

I think it's perfectly legit to say that Luck makes some mistakes with the football, and they sometimes lead to turnovers. It's not all his fault. He's also still young; I think yesterday was his 47th start. Young QBs are generally prone to mistakes, especially when they are asked to carry the offense. Russell Wilson, for instance, has 160 fewer pass attempts. He also doesn't attempt deep passes as frequently as Luck, and isn't as successful down the field as Luck.

So we take the good with the bad, and continue to hope that Luck's sort of rough edges will smooth out with time. Even as we wait, his playmaking ability far outweighs his tendency to make mistakes.

[PeterBowman]

even with 11 interceptions, his ratio is still over 3:1, which is great.....also what's his interception  %? that's the way to truly judge it not so much the raw numbers.

[blh126]

Earlier this season Luck had alot of passes batted down at the line. He has cleaned that up. With pressure up the middle, when he misses, he misses high and balls get tipped and picked. He will clean that up by the end of december and the run to the superbowl with be ON!

[sweetsurrender]

Are you serious? You really think this is worth arguing over? We both said our opinions but you don't want to let it be. My comment about Rogers was in response to another poster, not you.

Whose arguing?

 

Check out post #7 in which you quote me and wrote the following:

Without Lucks play there would be no playoff games. A big part of his turnovers is the pressure he faces every game. Last night I seen Rogers have just about all the time he needed  for his receivers to clear. One play was at least 8-10 seconds. Luck has never had that much time in his short career. Sorry but when you lead the NFL in yardage and are in the top 3 in TDs he is making solid decisions.

 

You brought up Rogers to me. That is what I responding to and not arguing. A disagreement is not an argument you know.

[Ja'Crispy]

This is where I see a bit of Favre in Luck. Big plays, a lot of TDs, but some ill advised INTs. That being said, I wouldn't take anyone else.

[cmgww]

For anyone thinking about last season's playoffs....remember he was throwing to Griff, Da'Rick, and didn't have Reggie or Allen. Not exactly a stellar supporting cast

[Superman]

This is where I see a bit of Favre in Luck. Big plays, a lot of TDs, but some ill advised INTs. That being said, I wouldn't take anyone else.

 

I don't think Andrew Luck plays anything like Brett Favre. 

[wesd2890]

Its all the fumbles he has that people jump on.. hes has 6 fumbles in 2 games.. ouch