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Shipley starting against JAX

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akcolt Walk On

akcolt

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can you name any K that has ever been traded for a 6th or 7th round pick?  Again, we couldn't get any better than a 7th for Rayford...we got what, a conditional 6th for Shipley I think?  Do you really think an UDFA K would have gotten us the same value?

Can't break my promise Superman is getting mad.

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Jason_ Hall of Famer

Jason_

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That is not true the Eagles got a starting K we got a RB I am pretty sure we cut in less than a week.

 

That's not true either....the Eagles got a K to compete with their current K.  Henery was released on the 30th, the day of final cutdowns, which is when the Colts released Fluellen.  Parkey won the competition with Henery and then became the starting K while Fluellen did not beat out Tipton.  Both teams got a player to compete for a roster spot...Parkey won and Fluellen lost.  

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ColtStronger Walk On

ColtStronger

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I'm glad were starting AQ again.  As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, dont fix it!  The O-Line has been performing as I hoped they would following a sub par year last season.  No reason to take someone out who has been doing a good job to play a 2nd year guy that has no experience.  That just wouldn't make sense.  When Holmes becomes 100% I believe he needs to compete in practice for his job back. 

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Jason_ Hall of Famer

Jason_

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Can't break my promise Superman is getting mad.

 

Or you know that you can't answer without completely wrecking your futile attempt at an argument.  You said we should have only traded Parkey for a 6th or 7th round pick.  We got a 7th round pick for Caesar Rayford, a pass rusher that had a fairly good showing in preseason, and we got a 6th for Marcus Burley, a cornerback who also had a pretty decent preseason.  Parkey didn't really do anything special.  Do you really think that an UDFA Kicker could have gotten the same value in return as either Rayford or Burley?   Alternately, can you name any Kicker that has ever been traded for a draft pick?

 

Just because you could (probably) trade a K for a late draft pick in Madden does not mean it could happen in real life.

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TKnight24 Walk On

TKnight24

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Or you know that you can't answer without completely wrecking your futile attempt at an argument. You said we should have only traded Parkey for a 6th or 7th round pick. We got a 7th round pick for Caesar Rayford, a pass rusher that had a fairly good showing in preseason, and we got a 6th for Marcus Burley, a cornerback who also had a pretty decent preseason. Parkey didn't really do anything special. Do you really think that an UDFA Kicker could have gotten the same value in return as either Rayford or Burley? Alternately, can you name any Kicker that has ever been traded for a draft pick?

Just because you could (probably) trade a K for a late draft pick in Madden does not mean it could happen in real life.

You can't trade K or P at all in Madden............
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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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I'm glad were starting AQ again.  As the old saying goes, if it ain't broke, dont fix it!  The O-Line has been performing as I hoped they would following a sub par year last season.  No reason to take someone out who has been doing a good job to play a 2nd year guy that has no experience.  That just wouldn't make sense.  When Holmes becomes 100% I believe he needs to compete in practice for his job back. 

 

I'm fine with requiring Holmes to look good in practice. I think pretty much every player on the roster should be made uncomfortable on a regular basis, to be honest.

 

But I think the plan is still for Holmes to be the starter once he's healthy. While Shipley has been okay -- and that's pretty much in line with Pagano saying we can win with him -- I think he's been merely average. He's missed several blocks, been slow to get to linebackers, and he didn't make great protection calls in either of the first two games. I have no problem with him, but I don't think he's been playing so good that we should never think about benching him.

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akcolt Walk On

akcolt

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Or you know that you can't answer without completely wrecking your futile attempt at an argument.  You said we should have only traded Parkey for a 6th or 7th round pick.  We got a 7th round pick for Caesar Rayford, a pass rusher that had a fairly good showing in preseason, and we got a 6th for Marcus Burley, a cornerback who also had a pretty decent preseason.  Parkey didn't really do anything special.  Do you really think that an UDFA Kicker could have gotten the same value in return as either Rayford or Burley?   Alternately, can you name any Kicker that has ever been traded for a draft pick?

 

Just because you could (probably) trade a K for a late draft pick in Madden does not mean it could happen in real life.

I said trade or cut the kid let Philly take their chances. That would have been Philly's choice to make. Do they need a K badly enough to cough up a 7th? Do they feel confident enough that he makes it through to them on the wire?

 

That is all up to Philly.  Getting a touchback on Kick Offs only 38% of the time doesn't help with field position. Parkey led the NCAA in touchbacks. That is Philly's call to make.

 

I am just saying I am not giving a team a starting player that is going to make them better for nothing. You can dice it how you want. We gave them a legit K something that  killed Kelly throughout his career at Oregon. Maldonado cost him another shot at a national championship. K was always a problem for the Ducks.

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Jason_ Hall of Famer

Jason_

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I said trade or cut the kid let Philly take their chances. That would have been Philly's choice to make. Do they need a K badly enough to cough up a 7th? Do they feel confident enough that he makes it through to them on the wire?

 

That is all up to Philly.  Getting a touchback on Kick Offs only 38% of the time doesn't help with field position. Parkey led the NCAA in touchbacks. That is Philly's call to make.

 

I am just saying I am not giving a team a starting player that is going to make them better for nothing. You can dice it how you want. We gave them a legit K something that  killed Kelly throughout his career at Oregon. Maldonado cost him another shot at a national championship. K was always a problem for the Ducks.

 

that's all a really nice way of saying that no, in fact you cannot answer either question.  However just for the hell of it, I did a little bit of research for you and in fact, yes another kicker has been traded this past offseason for a draft pick.  Brandon McManus was traded by NYG to Denver for a conditional 7th rounder.  However, this would be McManus' 2nd year in the NFL...he was an UDFA last year.  So it was last year he was in the same position that Parkey was this year.  Last year at the same time, McManus was an UDFA kicker, coincidentally signed by the Colts for training camp and preseason, just like Parkey, who wound up getting released at first cuts, just like Parkey was going to be.  But instead, Parkey was traded for another player.

 

You're also leaving out another possibility...was Grigson confident that Fluellen would make it down to the Colts place on the waiver wire?  Maybe he didn't want to take the chance of not getting Fluellen and, at that time, Fluellen was more valuable to him than a conditional 7th round pick.

 

BTW, calling a rookie UDFA K a "starting player" and a "legit kicker" is quite a bit of a stretch.  

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The Fish Active Roster

The Fish

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As far as why A.Q is playing this weekend, you guys do know that it's the Jags? I'm guessing and I could be wrong, and no coach would ever admit it, but I think it's a risk worth taking. Letting Holmes actually get his 4 weeks of recovery is much of a conspiracy anyway.

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ColtStronger Walk On

ColtStronger

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I'm fine with requiring Holmes to look good in practice. I think pretty much every player on the roster should be made uncomfortable on a regular basis, to be honest.

 

But I think the plan is still for Holmes to be the starter once he's healthy. While Shipley has been okay -- and that's pretty much in line with Pagano saying we can win with him -- I think he's been merely average. He's missed several blocks, been slow to get to linebackers, and he didn't make great protection calls in either of the first two games. I have no problem with him, but I don't think he's been playing so good that we should never think about benching him.

I definitely agree, that Colts staff plan on starting him soon, I just don't want him rushed back.   AQ hasn't been playing great but I give him credit he hasn't screwed up too bad.  I do think Khaled Holmes will probably be better but he hasn't ever did anything to earn the job.  He inherited it because he was drafted and Satele was horrible.  It's not like he was a 1st or 2nd rounder either.  Grigson has always been committed to him.  That's fine, but I believe he would play harder and if there was competition.   

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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I definitely agree, that Colts staff plan on starting him soon, I just don't want him rushed back.   AQ hasn't been playing great but I give him credit he hasn't screwed up too bad.  I do think Khaled Holmes will probably be better but he hasn't ever did anything to earn the job.  He inherited it because he was drafted and Satele was horrible.  It's not like he was a 1st or 2nd rounder either.  Grigson has always been committed to him.  That's fine, but I believe he would play harder and if there was competition.   

 

How does a center earn a starting job? It's all about what happens in practice, isn't it? They drafted Holmes with an eye on him being the eventual starter, so I have no problem with them grooming him for that role, and eventually you either have to give him a chance or just let him waste away on the bench. I don't think they should bench Shipley just for the sake of playing Holmes, but I don't think Shipley's play has been unimpeachable, either. Like Pagano said, we can win with him, so whatever we do, I'm fine with it. But if Holmes is healthy and practicing well, I understand why they want him in the lineup instead. 

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ColtStronger Walk On

ColtStronger

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How does a center earn a starting job? It's all about what happens in practice, isn't it? They drafted Holmes with an eye on him being the eventual starter, so I have no problem with them grooming him for that role, and eventually you either have to give him a chance or just let him waste away on the bench. I don't think they should bench Shipley just for the sake of playing Holmes, but I don't think Shipley's play has been unimpeachable, either. Like Pagano said, we can win with him, so whatever we do, I'm fine with it. But if Holmes is healthy and practicing well, I understand why they want him in the lineup instead. 

I'm not disagreeing, Holmes should have to prove it in practice.  He is just getting back from a 6 week injury and he was injured pretty much all of last year.  Is he going to hands down out play Shipley now?  If he is handed the job like that he should be on a short leash.  We cant really afford to "develop him as a player" starting if he is making mistakes and coming off injuries a lot, given our O-Line is just getting the job done, but by no means dominant.

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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I'm not disagreeing, Holmes should have to prove it in practice.  He is just getting back from a 6 week injury and he was injured pretty much all of last year.  Is he going to hands down out play Shipley now?  If he is handed the job like that he should be on a short leash.  We cant really afford to "develop him as a player" starting if he is making mistakes and coming off injuries a lot, given our O-Line is just getting the job done, but by no means dominant.

 

If he doesn't play well, I hope they consider benching him. But I do think they'll be eager to get him out on the field. If the line is playing well with Shipley, I think the hope is that they'll play even better with Holmes. We'll see.

 

Also, I don't think Holmes was hurt all of last year. He got hurt in camp, then was mostly a healthy scratch.

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Hoosier Walk On

Hoosier

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For what it's worth, I just saw this on Rotoworld:

A.Q. Shipley will start at center in Week 3 against the Jaguars.

Shipley has graded out as a top-ten center by Pro Football Focus through two games. He'll remain the starter even with Khaled Holmes (probable, ankle) healthy enough to return.

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Dr. T Practice Squad

Dr. T

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WOAH WOAH WOAH!   Now hold on a minute there buddy... that's just crossing the line!  Didnt you know that within every UDFA lies a HOFer waiting to explode onto the scene??!  I mean just look at... ummm... hmmm... Ok I can't think of one right now...but that DOESNT mean that it can't happen!! 

 

Jeff Saturday

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TKnight24 Walk On

TKnight24

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I'm fine with Shipley starting against the Jags. Holmes played great against the Jets 1st team defense in preseason, looked bigger and much more athletic then Shipley has been this far. I do expect Holmes to start vs the Titans, he's a better player.

How has Holmes proved he's Better at C in the Colts offense than Shipley?

Holmes hasn't done anything

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chad72 Ring of Honor

chad72

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We did that after beating the 49ers and put Satele back at center and McGlynn at guard, we saw what happened.

 

Continuity is way more important than one part being replaced by a better part, even if we assume Holmes is better than Shipley, which I don't think we can.

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TKnight24 Walk On

TKnight24

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We did that after beating the 49ers and put Satele back at center and McGlynn at guard, we saw what happened.

Continuity is way more important than one part being replaced by a better part, even if we assume Holmes is better than Shipley, which I don't think we can.

It's a 4th (right?) Round pick

Shipley is playing better. Let Holmes ride the bench. If it ain't broke don't fix it

Then if we put Holmes in and he stinks then everyone gonna turncoats and say we should've stuck with Shipley

You don't change what's working. This is the best offensive line the colts have had in awhile

Let the young guys gel. We can even cut Donald Thomas if he doesn't wanna take a pay cut and be a backup cause Thornton & Mewhort are the future at G

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