Should the Colts Consider Richie Incognito?

[oldunclemark]

First, Grigson and Pagano will be concerned about team chemistry.  Individual play potential is worthless if team play/chemistry suffers.

 

Second, Irsay is concerned with his Brand   The Horseshoe.  He won't tarnish the Shoe and it's possible Incognito would defecate on it.  His track record is full of massive turd-ism. ink Incognito can play unless he's instigating and jacking people up or around.

 

Third, I don't think Incognito can play unless he's instigating and jacking people around. That's his motivating trigger.  Take that away and he's < average.  And an incident from getting cut. Speaking of cut, how much will he demand to play?

 

Here's his stellar past-

 

"

• As a freshman at Nebraska in 2002, Incognito (according to USA Today this week) bullied teammate Jack Limbaugh to the point where he stormed off at practice.

• Incognito started 13 of 14 games as a true freshman, missing the one against Iowa State because of an in-game fight against Penn State the week prior.

• Incognito was suspended the following spring by then-head coach Frank Solich. The reasons never were reported.

• In the spring semester of 2004, Incognito was charged with three counts of assault after a fight at a party. He was found guilty on one charge of misdemeanor assault and hit with a $500 fine.

• That following fall, Incognito was suspended from Nebraska and he withdrew from school two weeks later.

• Two weeks after leaving Nebraska, Incognito enrolled at Oregon. A week after that, then-Ducks head coach Mike Bellotti kicked him off the team and told the Oregonian: "There were conditions we had set down and set forth for him to be admitted to our program, and they were not met."

• That next spring in 2005, Incognito declared for the NFL draft. Former Indianapolis Colts head coach Tony Dungy recently told Dan Patrick that his team red-flagged Incognito for character concerns and removed him from their draft board. So did former New England Patriots personnel boss Scott Pioli, who echoed similar sentiments on NBC Sunday night.

• After being taken in the third round of the NFL draft by the St. Louis Rams, Incognito earned a starting spot and became known for his rough style on the field. He committed 38 penalties, including seven for unnecessary roughness, in 44 games.

• Incognito was voted the "NFL's dirtiest player" by The Sporting News in a poll of 99 players in 2009.

• After several incidents involving fans and then-Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo (during a game against the Tennessee Titans), Incognito was released in December 2009. He finished the season with the Buffalo Bills but spent only three games with them.

• In December 2011, as a member of the Miami Dolphins, Incognito incited Oakland Raiders defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who was fined $30,000 for punching Incognito during a game

• Houston Texans defensive end Antonio Smith called out Incognito for dirty play in 2012. In a 2013 preseason game with the Dolphins, Smith swung his helmet during an altercation with Incognito, which earned Smith a one-week suspension.

• Also in August, Incognito was involved in an incident at a Miami Beach hotel in which it was reported he punched a security guard, but his name was cleared, charges were dropped and Incognito was issued only a trespassing warning.

• The incidents with Jonathan Martin, which reportedly dated from his rookie season, and through April OTAs, came to light in November. The Dolphins, after hearing the reported death threats and racist slurs on voicemails left on Martin's cell phone, suspended Incognito indefinitely and reportedly plan to cut ties with him.

Listen to CBF!!!!

[jvan1973]

and I couldn't tell you his name.....every team has criminals..its the NFL

Incognito brings a circus that no one in Indy wants. Want to be famous for hiring a menace to NFL society?

It worries me about this season that fans are asking about acquiring a psycho freak with a vivid history of abusing people male and female..

...after one exhibition game.

Not every team has convicted criminals on the roster

[IndyD4U]

Not every team has convicted criminals on the roster

Not to hijack this thread, but I would like to know that stats on this. I think we'd all be surprised.

[Modern]

People wanted poor Martin here, Indy was perfect for the delicate little flower to start over, never mind that he wasn't very good.

Incognito is better then Martin at football, hands down.

So it becomes a question of losing the "class act" label that Colts fans have anointed the team with, by the way nobody else cares. 50 years from now they won't write in the history books what a class act any team was or wasn't, they will write who won games and super bowls.

You build a team to win super bowls, not humanitarian awards. If he is better then what you have then roll the dice, because winning is everything and nobody remembers the classy teams who never won anything.

[NewEra]

I don't care what he did in the past. If he can come in, give us his best football without any crap than I'm all for it.

[Dustin]

Everybody here seems to forget that:

A) He wasn't very good before he left

and

B) He hasn't played football nor practiced in almost a year.

[Synthetic]

People wanted poor Martin here, Indy was perfect for the delicate little flower to start over, never mind that he wasn't very good.

Incognito is better then Martin at football, hands down.

So it becomes a question of losing the "class act" label that Colts fans have anointed the team with, by the way nobody else cares. 50 years from now they won't write in the history books what a class act any team was or wasn't, they will write who won games and super bowls.

You build a team to win super bowls, not humanitarian awards. If he is better then what you have then roll the dice, because winning is everything and nobody remembers the classy teams who never won anything.

 

 

He hasn't played in nearly a year and wasn't that good to begin with.

 

The Colts already lost that "class act" thing a long time ago with Marvin Harrison.

 

If you're more worried about being labeled "classy" then watch Oprah cause no one in the NFL is classy, I don't care what team or what player.

[ColtsBlueFL]

He hasn't played in nearly a year and wasn't that good to begin with.

 

The Colts already lost that "class act" thing a long time ago with Marvin Harrison.

 

If you're more worried about being labeled "classy" then watch Oprah cause no one in the NFL is classy, I don't care what team or what player.

 

Agreed. But I do point out most (not all) owners do want to keep that tarnish on their brand down to a low level. Some teams thrive on thuggery image (Oakland Raiders?) But Irsay does have a level of decency He doesn't like trampled on.  He has pride in the Shoe.

[JPFolks]

they just signed a guy who was arrested for armed robbery

 

Thank you for reminding folks that Pagano and Grigs have NO PROBLEM bringing in thugs.  In fact, they seem to like taking huge risks with bad dudes.  Frankly, I wish they would boot them all off and work on a clean team where wife beaters and armed robbers and psycho bullies were not welcome on any team, but it seems that bar is forever crossed and Pagano and Grigs are in line with their hand up wanting most of them.  

 

Incognito is a thug, but on the scale, a low level one compared to others already on the team.  Let's do the right thing and just get rid of them all and make the same choices that Dungy did.  But if you think what we already have is just fine, then Incognito should fit right in. 

"

[LordHelpOurColts]

Anybody know why Richie did Bobby Lupo?

[HGRekks]

I'm not for it in the least. I hear guys like Art Jones and D'Qwell Jackson being appealed by the family environment that Coach Pagano builds in the team and I don't think Incognito fits that. He can play, sure, but he's not the kind of guy who has ever proven that he can get along anywhere without some kind of incident. He's been in the league for 9 years and still hasn't gotten it. He was kicked off a college team in Nebraska before that and didn't meet the agreed upon criteria to transfer to Oregon before that. I believe in second chances, but this guy has been nothing but dirty and hasn't been able to stick on anywhere, even considering his considerable talents. That speaks volumes to me.

[esmort]

I will take Super Bowls over the "classy" or "family friendly" image any day .... I hated Dungy's hardline stance on players past issues.

[SilentHill]

Two things...I highly doubt you'll ever educate me on anything and two, closed minded is the last way anyone would describe me that truly knows me.

It's not at all closed minded to not want a guy like incognito on the team but you go on and keep thinking that if it makes you feel superior. ;)

 

What is your address I'll send you a dictionary.

 

Not being open to a suggestion, is the exact definition of closed minded. The reasoning behind it is irrelevant.

 

So with that, I shake my head in derision and issue you a ... Dear God....

[Qwiz]

First, Grigson and Pagano will be concerned about team chemistry.  Individual play potential is worthless if team play/chemistry suffers.

 

Second, Irsay is concerned with his Brand   The Horseshoe.  He won't tarnish the Shoe and it's possible Incognito would defecate on it.  His track record is full of massive turd-ism.

 

Third, I don't think Incognito can play unless he's instigating and jacking people up or around. That's his motivating trigger.  Take that away and he's < average.  And an incident from getting cut. Speaking of cut, how much will he demand to play?

 

Here's his stellar past-

 

"

• As a freshman at Nebraska in 2002, Incognito (according to USA Today this week) bullied teammate Jack Limbaugh to the point where he stormed off at practice.

• Incognito started 13 of 14 games as a true freshman, missing the one against Iowa State because of an in-game fight against Penn State the week prior.

• Incognito was suspended the following spring by then-head coach Frank Solich. The reasons never were reported.

• In the spring semester of 2004, Incognito was charged with three counts of assault after a fight at a party. He was found guilty on one charge of misdemeanor assault and hit with a $500 fine.

• That following fall, Incognito was suspended from Nebraska and he withdrew from school two weeks later.

• Two weeks after leaving Nebraska, Incognito enrolled at Oregon. A week after that, then-Ducks head coach Mike Bellotti kicked him off the team and told the Oregonian: "There were conditions we had set down and set forth for him to be admitted to our program, and they were not met."

• That next spring in 2005, Incognito declared for the NFL draft. Former Indianapolis Colts head coach Tony Dungy recently told Dan Patrick that his team red-flagged Incognito for character concerns and removed him from their draft board. So did former New England Patriots personnel boss Scott Pioli, who echoed similar sentiments on NBC Sunday night.

• After being taken in the third round of the NFL draft by the St. Louis Rams, Incognito earned a starting spot and became known for his rough style on the field. He committed 38 penalties, including seven for unnecessary roughness, in 44 games.

• Incognito was voted the "NFL's dirtiest player" by The Sporting News in a poll of 99 players in 2009.

• After several incidents involving fans and then-Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo (during a game against the Tennessee Titans), Incognito was released in December 2009. He finished the season with the Buffalo Bills but spent only three games with them.

• In December 2011, as a member of the Miami Dolphins, Incognito incited Oakland Raiders defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who was fined $30,000 for punching Incognito during a game

• Houston Texans defensive end Antonio Smith called out Incognito for dirty play in 2012. In a 2013 preseason game with the Dolphins, Smith swung his helmet during an altercation with Incognito, which earned Smith a one-week suspension.

• Also in August, Incognito was involved in an incident at a Miami Beach hotel in which it was reported he punched a security guard, but his name was cleared, charges were dropped and Incognito was issued only a trespassing warning.

• Also in August, Incognito was involved in an incident at a Miami Beach hotel in which it was reported he punched a security guard, but his name was cleared, charges were dropped and Incognito was issued only a trespassing warning.

• The incidents with Jonathan Martin, which reportedly dated from his rookie season, and through April OTAs, came to light in November. The Dolphins, after hearing the reported death threats and racist slurs on voicemails left on Martin's cell phone, suspended Incognito indefinitely and reportedly plan to cut ties with him.

Sounds like a swell guy.

[Modern]

Irsay hasn't exactly been a choir boy himself lately. So to say he only allows the best character on his team would be kinda having double standards.

Incognito has been out for a year, but so has Allen, Bradshaw for most of the year, players get injured and sit out for a season all the time. You bring them in, have them tryout, and see what they got.

How many pro bowl players are on the O line ? None at the moment.

As far as the Stanford boys having issue ... I doubt it. Sure they all said they supported Martin, but on Martins first NFL team everyone considered him a weirdo and nobody really liked him. You can't tell me nobody in college thought the guy was soft and a weirdo. They aren't gonna say it, nobody with any level of intelligence is gonna say " yeah we noticed in college he was a weirdo, I agree completely with Incognito who is about to get suspended and fined".

These are human beings not superheros, they don't fight for truth justice and the american way, they play football and make millions doing it. They do bad things same as everyone else, the smart ones keep it to a minimum or hide it well, but they are just people. They are going to do or say whatever they think is in their own best interest.

Some of you guys act like anyone with a horseshoe sticker on his helmet is some kind of angel sent down from heaven and can do no wrong. They are real people, some are stupid, some smart, some drink and do drugs, some lie and have abrasive personalities, some are weirdos. None of that matters though if they can keep their heads down, play good football, and make the rubes feel like they are holy men on a mission from god.

[jvan1973]

He hasn't played in nearly a year and wasn't that good to begin with.

The Colts already lost that "class act" thing a long time ago with Marvin Harrison.

If you're more worried about being labeled "classy" then watch Oprah cause no one in the NFL is classy, I don't care what team or what player.

What was Marvin convicted of?

He recently saved a mans life.

[Modern]

What was Marvin convicted of?

He recently saved a mans life.

Are you serious ? There are guys doing life who were convicted on less then what the police had on Marvin.

If Marvin wasn't who he is then he would have been in prison by now. Money makes a world of difference.

[jvan1973]

Are you serious ? There are guys doing life who were convicted on less then what the police had on Marvin.

If Marvin wasn't who he is then he would have been in prison by now. Money makes a world of difference.

Yeah that's just not accurate.

[Modern]

Ray Rice ain't convicted, Ray Lewis didn't get convicted, even OJ beat the criminal case. You can't turn your nose up on Rice and Lewis and yell thug, then pretend that Marvin is like the guy in the Fugitive and the police should be looking for a one armed man.

Marvin did it or had it done. He owned the special gun, lied about where the gun was, then when the man was shot again he was named as the shooter by the victim before dying.

The horseshoe sticker doesn't change what a man is. Ray Carruth had less evidence against him, and everyone knows he did it.

[jvan1973]

Ray Rice ain't convicted, Ray Lewis didn't get convicted, even OJ beat the criminal case. You can't turn your nose up on Rice and Lewis and yell thug, then pretend that Marvin is like the guy in the Fugitive and the police should be looking for a one armed man.

Marvin did it or had it done. He owned the special gun, lied about where the gun was, then when the man was shot again he was named as the shooter by the victim before dying.

The horseshoe sticker doesn't change what a man is. Ray Carruth had less evidence against him, and everyone knows he did it.

Ray Rice plead guilty, Ray Lewis was convicted of obstruction of justice. OJ did beat his case, but he was arrested and spent a year in jail. Marvin was never even charged with a crime.

[HOZER]

If you're more worried about being labeled "classy" then watch Oprah cause no one in the NFL is classy, I don't care what team or what player.

Have to disagree here, there' are plenty of "class acts" in the NFL, and we've had quite a few come through the Colts organization that are heavily involved in the community by choice not because they are forced to be.

As for Incognito, I'll pass, seems like a real DB and not the type of person I'd want in the trenches with me.

[Modern]

So you think some street thug had the same rare high dollar gun as Marvin ?

You think Marvin mistakingly thought his high dollar gun was locked up at home and forgot that he had put it in a bucket at the car wash ?

You think that the victim hated Marvin so much that he would rather finger him as the shooter then the person who actually murdered him ?

I loved Marvin as a player, but Marvin killed that guy. I don't even care if Marvin does or doesn't go to jail over it, but he did it.

There is plenty of evidence for a trial, but for some reason there hasn't been one. I would say money is the reason.

[HOZER]

I don't even care if Marvin does or doesn't go to jail over it, but he did it.

There is plenty of evidence for a trial, but for some reason there hasn't been .

Please supply this evidence to the FBI immediately, they have been investigating since 2010 and haven't been able to pin Marvin with anything. Did he buy them out as well? Marvin may or may not have done it, but keep in mind the deceased was a convicted drug dealer and no angel, doesn't make it right, but also doesn't make him a credible informant/witness, as stated by the DA that was involved in the case.

[a06cc]

I'm not against bring him in if the organization feels it's a move they need to make. Riley Cooper was forgiven and went through therapy. Riche deserves a chance as well. I'm also for the next man up. This is why you bring in guys you feel fit your system. You can make a playmaker out of any player. No matter the round they are taken in. There's tons of example players, "no names". We'll see who makes the plays next season. I'm not worried by any means.

[a06cc]

I'm not against bring him in if the organization feels it's a move they need to make. Riley Cooper was forgiven and went through therapy. Riche deserves a chance as well. I'm also for the next man up. This is why you bring in guys you feel fit your system. You can make a playmaker out of any player. No matter the round they are taken in. There's tons of example players, "no names". We'll see who makes the plays next season. I'm not worried by any means.

[Modern]

Obviously it does matter that the victim was a drug dealer or you wouldn't bring it up. When the victim was killed there was some security footage from Marvin's bar, but the tape went blank when the shooters face would have been visible. Hours of solid video before that and after that, but for the 3 minutes the shooter would have been visible, there was nothing but a blank spot.

Some of you guys ....….

I mean I thought the blind support of Richardson was insane, but .... Wow.

I guess once you have a horseshoe helmet on you can do no wrong.

[Superman]

Irsay hasn't exactly been a choir boy himself lately. So to say he only allows the best character on his team would be kinda having double standards.

 

So what?

 

Everyone isn't held to the same standard in life. And the impact a player has on the lockerroom is very different from the impact the owner has.

 

Not to mention that what Irsay did and what Incognito has been accused of throughout his career (see ColtsBlueFL's post above) are very different.

[Modern]

So what?

Everyone isn't held to the same standard in life. And the impact a player has on the lockerroom is very different from the impact the owner has.

Not to mention that what Irsay did and what Incognito has been accused of throughout his career (see ColtsBlueFL's post above) are very different.

I agree. Irsay was driving around under the influence and putting not only his own life but the life of others in danger. Incognito is mostly guilty of being a jerk, which although annoying and frowned upon, doesn't really endanger anyone else's life.

[Modern]

I'm not against Irsay at all, I'm just saying that people in glass houses and such ....

[Superman]

I agree. Irsay was driving around under the influence and putting not only his own life but the life of others in danger. Incognito is mostly guilty of being a jerk, which although annoying and frowned upon, doesn't really endanger anyone else's life.

 

I wish I lived in the black and white world you live in.

I'm not against Irsay at all, I'm just saying that people in glass houses and such ....

What? Aren't allowed to make decisions based on what they think is good for their business? Irsay did something stupid, so that means he shouldn't take someone else's indiscretions into consideration? The Colts can't cross a guy off their list if they think he's a character risk, because Irsay got arrested?

One thing has nothing to do with the other, despite the perceived double standard.

[Modern]

I wish I lived in the black and white world you live in.

What? Aren't allowed to make decisions based on what they think is good for their business? Irsay did something stupid, so that means he shouldn't take someone else's indiscretions into consideration? The Colts can't cross a guy off their list if they think he's a character risk, because Irsay got arrested?

One thing has nothing to do with the other, despite the perceived double standard.

The most certainly do have something to do with each other, otherwise why was Irsay fined and suspended by the NFL ?

He tarnished the image of his team and the NFL just the same as a player could.

I like Irsay, I think he's a good owner for the most part, but he is no saint, he is just a man and as a man he has problems just like us all. Incognito has problems, Irsay has problems, everyone here has problems.

[NewColtsFan]

In regard to Incognito.....

 

Thanks,   I'll pass.

 

And I wouldn't pay higher than a 4 for Boone.    And my opening offer would be a 5.  

 

I would NOT give up a 3 for Boone. 

[NewColtsFan]

The most certainly do have something to do with each other, otherwise why was Irsay fined and suspended by the NFL ?

He tarnished the image of his team and the NFL just the same as a player could.

I like Irsay, I think he's a good owner for the most part, but he is no saint, he is just a man and as a man he has problems just like us all. Incognito has problems, Irsay has problems, everyone here has problems.

 

Irsay had one problem.    Driving 10 miles an hour while under the influence.

 

Incognito has had problems in every stop in his life since college.

 

Oregon, Nebraska,  St. Louis, Miami and any other stops I may have missed.

 

I don't think one person compares to the other simply by saying all people have problems.

[Modern]

Irsay had one problem. Driving 10 miles an hour while under the influence.

Incognito has had problems in every stop in his life since college.

Oregon, Nebraska, St. Louis, Miami and any other stops I may have missed.

I don't think one person compares to the other simply by saying all people have problems.

Do you honestly think Irsay was caught the very first time he was driving under the influence ?

Ever drove after a few beers ? You get caught every time ? You think every person who had a few to drink at the game or at a bar has a designated driver and if not they are caught each and every time ?

Be realistic.

[Superman]

Do you honestly think Irsay was caught the very first time he was driving under the influence ?

Ever drove after a few beers ? You get caught every time ? You think every person who had a few to drink at the game or at a bar has a designated driver and if not they are caught each and every time ?

Be realistic.

 

Unless you have any kind of proof or evidence that Irsay has driven under the influence on another occasion...

[Dustin]

The most certainly do have something to do with each other, otherwise why was Irsay fined and suspended by the NFL ?

He wasn't.

[Superman]

The most certainly do have something to do with each other, otherwise why was Irsay fined and suspended by the NFL ?

He tarnished the image of his team and the NFL just the same as a player could.

I like Irsay, I think he's a good owner for the most part, but he is no saint, he is just a man and as a man he has problems just like us all. Incognito has problems, Irsay has problems, everyone here has problems.

 

Irsay hasn't been fined and suspended by the league, yet, unless I missed something.

 

And even if he has, one has nothing to do with the other. Unless, again, you're suggesting that Irsay and the Colts are not allowed to make personnel decisions on the basis of player conduct. And we know that's not the case; since Irsay's arrest, the Colts have released Lavon Brazill and Chris Rainey for violations.

[Modern]

I'm not implying or suggesting anything. I'm just looking at things rationally without letting blue colored glasses get in the way or distort things.

Just trying to insert a bit of rational thinking into the mix. I see now that it isn't probably possible.

[NewColtsFan]

Do you honestly think Irsay was caught the very first time he was driving under the influence ?

Ever drove after a few beers ? You get caught every time ? You think every person who had a few to drink at the game or at a bar has a designated driver and if not they are caught each and every time ?

Be realistic.

 

I didn't say this was Irsay's first time....   but it is the first time he's been caught.

 

The difference is Irsay's issues have mostly been Irsay's issues.    Incognito's issues have been everyone's issues.

 

We're still talking night and day.    I still don't see the comparison.

 

But if you're unwilling to recognize the difference between the two,  if you're only standing on "we all have problems"  then where does it end?

 

Are you and I the same as a wife beater?   As a murder?    As a rapist?    At what point do we stop saying he's like everyone else, he just has problems....

 

At some point you have to say some people have more problems, and much worse problems than the rest of us.....

 

And I think that's where I am comparing Irsay to Incognito....     I don't see them as similar.....

[Superman]

I'm not implying or suggesting anything. I'm just looking at things rationally without letting blue colored glasses get in the way or distort things.

Just trying to insert a bit of rational thinking into the mix. I see now that it isn't probably possible.

 

Blue colored glasses? 

 

I love this "I'm the only rational one here" thing that people throw around all the time. Ironically, your stance is completely irrational.

 

Jim Irsay could be on trial for murder, and it wouldn't change how I feel about Richie Incognito. This isn't about Jim Irsay, or his troubles. When you make personnel decisions, it's about your roster and the player you're making a decision on. If you don't like the player, for whatever reason -- including his character, which is pretty well established over the course of the last decade for Incognito -- then you should pass on him. It doesn't matter if it comes across as hypocritical, it doesn't matter if there's a double standard. The rational process of making this kind of decision is to base it on your evaluation of the player/person, without regard for the auxiliary stuff you're talking about.