Will the Defense be drastically better?

[Superman]

And on the issue of Toler... did you see us as a better pass defense with him on the field? As I know you have watched all the games again recently, as have I...

 

It seems to me like he has created a myth of great corner play before he went down, when I would argue this was largely down to the first game of the year.

 

I wasn't impressed with Toler's play before he got hurt. I said it last year. I do think the pass coverage seemed better before he got hurt, but when your injury means Cassius Vaughn is now on the field more, that's not good for the defense overall. So, no, I don't think Toler was special, but he was better than Vaughn and Butler on the outside.

 

I think the player to watch is Josh Gordy. 

[AntonMcG]

I wasn't impressed with Toler's play before he got hurt. I said it last year. I do think the pass coverage seemed better before he got hurt, but when your injury means Cassius Vaughn is now on the field more, that's not good for the defense overall. So, no, I don't think Toler was special, but he was better than Vaughn and Butler on the outside.

 

I think the player to watch is Josh Gordy. 

 

Maybe the pass coverage got worse to an extent... but I think a certain amount of that was teams realizing and exposing the weakness of our incredibly poor LB coverage. Vaughn of course was awful and Gordy should have been on the field much sooner.

[Valpo2004]

I personally think that with an improved front seven (at least on paper), the safety next to Landry will have a much easier task. I think much of our past problems was that we relied too much on our safeties in run support. If we can stop letting running backs get 7-8 yards passed the line of scrimmage before they are touched, our safeties will be more effective in the pass game. 

 

Hopefully so, although I'm still worried about a relatively untested UDFA playing safety.

[NewEra]

I look at our d being better mainly due to better line & lber play. Franklin got abused the first half of the season. I think they were trying to ease Chapman along cause he was by far our best run stuffer in the middle. Mathews wasn't that good either but was able to hang on on pure hussle. Moala would show flashes, then get hurt. So with those subtractions to Franklin/Mathews and addition of jones out line rotation should be improved. I'm more concerned about the NT rotation.

As far as lb, Angerer was abused. Sheperd was inconsistent and Freeman got worked at times also. Our best run stuffer seemed to be Conner who for some reason didn't see as much action as he should have. I think McNary, DQ and Jackson will be a much better ilber rotation.

All in all with better front 7 play our secondary will look much better. Verses out secondary trying to be the mainstay and make our front 7 look better.

[BrentMc11]

I look at our d being better mainly due to better line & lber play. Franklin got abused the first half of the season. I think they were trying to ease Chapman along cause he was by far out best run stuffer in the middle. Mathews wasn't that good either but was able to hang on on pure hussle. Moala would show flashes, then get hurt. So with those subtractions to Franklin/Mathews and addition of jones out line rotation should be improved. I'm more concerned about the NT rotation.

As far as lb, Angerer was abused. Sheperd was inconsistent and Freeman got worked at times also. Our best run stuffer seemed to be Conner who for some reason didn't see as much action as he should have. I think McNary, DQ and Jackson will be a much better ilber rotation.

All in all with better front 7 play our secondary will look much better. Verses out secondary trying to be the mainstay and make our front 7 look better.

Very nice...Hickman will help at LB too if healthy.

 

I guess I am the only one here that thinks Gordy is awful.  If you cannot beat out Vaughn?  I am not the coach but something was wrong.

 

He had a couple of nice plays, but even his special teams play was poor.  Especially with the kind of speed he possesses...for that matter Vaughn as well...awful. (Vaughn)

[NewEra]

Very nice...Hickman will help at LB too if healthy.

I guess I am the only one here that thinks Gordy is awful. If you cannot beat out Vaughn? I am not the coach but something was wrong.

He had a couple of nice plays, but even his special teams play was poor. Especially with the kind of speed he possesses...for that matter Vaughn as well...awful. (Vaughn)

Yeah Hickman had nice plays also. Liked Harvey in the run but wow, don't ever try to cover a TE again lol.

Not sure what people see in Gordy. I guess I just didn't see it. Our best cb combination was Davis/Toler on the outsides with Butler in the slot. And no other was even close. Toler was damn good at times. Not sure if his drop off was the groin injury or just victim of being the lesser cb than the rest. Even the best secondary gets thrown on...see Seattle.

[BrentMc11]

Yeah Hickman had nice plays also. Liked Harvey in the run but wow, don't ever try to cover a TE again lol.

Not sure what people see in Gordy. I guess I just didn't see it. Our best cb combination was Davis/Toler on the outsides with Butler in the slot. And no other was even close. Toler was damn good at times. Not sure if his drop off was the groin injury or just victim of being the lesser cb than the rest. Even the best secondary gets thrown on...see Seattle.

People get hung up on Toler's injury.  His interception was one of the most athletic plays a corner could make.  We were solid when Toler was healthy.  

 

With Vaughn replacing Toler, SS and FS had to have more than just their eyes in his direction.  Vaughn threw the balance off in the entire defensive backfield...especially Landry and Bethea.

[mintor]

   Considering we were a top 25ish D last season, a jump to top 15 is Drastic jump IMO. 

 And some laughed at those Homers that looked at the #`s after a Tough Oakland & Miami and were seeing a top 5-6 D.

 One had to be Homer BLIND to the personnel involved.

 

   If the run D was better to begin with... Yikes!

 In game one Oaklands QB ran all around us.

 Game 2, Miami with a weak line and a rookie QB got 100 + rushing.

 Game 3, SF, Gore had 80+ yards 7.5 ypc almost in the 1st half, it was embarassing watching Waldren. Mysteriously quit running the 2nd half.

 Game 4, Seattle pounded us on the ground for over 200 yds rushong

 Game 5, the Jags didn`t show up

 Game 6, Chargers RB had 100+ at 4.6 ypc

 

 So, given how our D struggled to stop the run All season and our LB`s were weak in pass coverage All season, and that that

IS going to Change, we should see a drastic improvement in our D.

 

  You don`t seem to KNOW A Jones. He has yet to be a Mayhem player so i`m baffled you chose that word.

 He is one of the Best run stuffers there is and gets SOME Push, a few sacks, more of the coverage type.

 

 Dq Jackson does get his tackles in the run game but there are questions about how many yards are given up before he makes them. Think Angerer. His Big Value is considered to be his pass coverage. I do agree he will surely be where he needs to be more consistentely than Angerer & Sheppard, so yes a plus..

 

 LB`er depth. I believe in McNary and that he can start and be solid. Not sure Sheppard will even make the roster because of An Jackson, but he actually did show decent improvement and should be better in year 2.

 We have VG depth along the D-Line and dumping weak links Mathews, Franklin, and moving Moala to the bottom of the depth chart is a Huge difference.

 

 It is true the injury Bug really hurts All teams and can seriously affect how good you are come Playoff time. So....thats FB!

 

 

fact was are running defense suck only bright spot was on mathis and he a year older .  tell get a pass rusher help mathis and nt can hold the line . defence rank 21.   win sb need top 15 defense . denver is proof of that and win indy won are first sb that was the year of are defense help win it.

[BlueShoe]

I wasn't impressed with Toler's play before he got hurt. I said it last year. I do think the pass coverage seemed better before he got hurt, but when your injury means Cassius Vaughn is now on the field more, that's not good for the defense overall. So, no, I don't think Toler was special, but he was better than Vaughn and Butler on the outside.

 

I think the player to watch is Josh Gordy. 

 

I agree. Toler played very well in a few games. Had a game winning pick against the Raiders too, in a game that the defense did not play very well.

[mintor]

We're a top 10 DEFENSE! And the only reason we're not any higher is due to youth.

 have oldest front 7 base avg age. love people that smoke great weed.

 

1. 

Ricky Jean Francois DT 6' 3" 297 27 6

2. 

90 Cory Redding DE 6' 4" 318 33 12

 

3. 

98 Robert Mathis ROLB 6' 2" 246 33

4.

52 D'Qwell Jackson LILB 6' 0" 240 30

5.

30 LaRon Landry FS 6' 0" 226 29

6.

28 Greg Toler LCB 6' 0" 190 29

 

7.

42 Corey Lynch SS 6' 0" 210 29

 

 

 

avg age 28

[mintor]

youngest is.

 

 

1 1. St. Louis Rams

 

2 cleveland

 

3.

 Green Bay Packers

 

4 Arizona Cardinals

 

 

 

5. Atlanta Falcons

 

 few others way younger then the colts defense age.

 

are offense starters  are youngest yes at 

31 Indianapolis Colts

25.34 Yrs

 

 

32 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

25.05 Yrs

[Superman]

 have oldest front 7 base avg age. love people that smoke great weed.

 

1. 

Ricky Jean Francois DT 6' 3" 297 27 6

2. 

90 Cory Redding DE 6' 4" 318 33 12

 

3. 

98 Robert Mathis ROLB 6' 2" 246 33

4.

52 D'Qwell Jackson LILB 6' 0" 240 30

5.

30 LaRon Landry FS 6' 0" 226 29

6.

28 Greg Toler LCB 6' 0" 190 29

 

7.

42 Corey Lynch SS 6' 0" 210 29

 

 

 

avg age 28

 

Why are we only using 7 players, and why is Corey Lynch in the mix? He played 38 snaps last year.

 

I don't doubt that we're at or near the top, because most of our defensive acquisitions have been FAs. We re-signed Mathis, brought in Redding, etc. We're going to be older than the Rams, for instance, since most of their defensive talent is homegrown and still on rookie contracts. 

[Gibbons180]

I think D'Qwell Jackson is one of the most underrated FA signings in the NFL. Him and Jerrell Freeman are a force at inside linebacker. Mathis is a beast, and there is good competition on the other side, I love the addition of Arthur jones. If you can rush the passer, it takes so much heat off of the secondary. And when all of our CB's are healthy, they are good.

[Superman]

A smaller sample size is not a fair reflection on productivity... the same measures could be used to argue why Russel Wilson has such a high QB Rating for much fewer throws. He has fairly modest pass-rushing numbers.

 

I hate to bring up old stuff, but this just hit me. Justin Smith is a perfect example of how much a non pass rusher can influence your pass rush. In 2012, Justin Smith had just 31 pressures on 484 pass rush snaps. But with him doing the dirty work, Aldon Smith was freed up to get 19 sacks and 72 pressures on 503 snaps. PFF gave J. Smith a PRP of 5.0 in 2012; nothing special, but it shows how important the play of a 3-4 DE can be to your team's total pass rush. (In the same season, Arthur Jones had a PRP of 9.5; his 2013 PRP was 8.4.)

 

There are a lot of other factors, but when you improve your DE/DT play in this front, it helps your big time pass rush threats do their job more effectively. So outside of Jones' ability to pressure the QB himself, his contributions will make life easier for his teammates, theoretically.

 

This is doubly important now that Mathis is suspended for the first month of the season. I think we need to add another pass rusher, personally, but even if we don't, the rest of the front should be improved.

[AntonMcG]

I hate to bring up old stuff, but this just hit me. Justin Smith is a perfect example of how much a non pass rusher can influence your pass rush. In 2012, Justin Smith had just 31 pressures on 484 pass rush snaps. But with him doing the dirty work, Aldon Smith was freed up to get 19 sacks and 72 pressures on 503 snaps. PFF gave J. Smith a PRP of 5.0 in 2012; nothing special, but it shows how important the play of a 3-4 DE can be to your team's total pass rush. (In the same season, Arthur Jones had a PRP of 9.5; his 2013 PRP was 8.4.)

 

There are a lot of other factors, but when you improve your DE/DT play in this front, it helps your big time pass rush threats do their job more effectively. So outside of Jones' ability to pressure the QB himself, his contributions will make life easier for his teammates, theoretically.

 

This is doubly important now that Mathis is suspended for the first month of the season. I think we need to add another pass rusher, personally, but even if we don't, the rest of the front should be improved.

 

 

Yes, the whole Justin/Aldon Smith thing was highly polarized last year and definitely had its merit. 3-4 Defensive linemen should be primarily trying to disrupt the continuity of the pocket to open the holes for the pass rushers....

 

However, I don't know how measurable that contribution is, because the DE is not the guy actually rushing the passer, just the guy creating the hole... or if such a stat exists, I have yet to come across it (seems like it would be comprable to run-blocking success for O-Linemen i.e. opening up holes).

 

But from what I have seen on film, does Jones give us something in this respect that we don't already have? You can see the massive impact he makes in the run game, but I don't know if he opens up any more holes than what we already had. Time will tell.

[Gavin]

Yes, the whole Justin/Aldon Smith thing was highly polarized last year and definitely had its merit. 3-4 Defensive linemen should be primarily trying to disrupt the continuity of the pocket to open the holes for the pass rushers....

 

However, I don't know how measurable that contribution is, because the DE is not the guy actually rushing the passer, just the guy creating the hole... or if such a stat exists, I have yet to come across it (seems like it would be comprable to run-blocking success for O-Linemen i.e. opening up holes).

 

But from what I have seen on film, does Jones give us something in this respect that we don't already have? You can see the massive impact he makes in the run game, but I don't know if he opens up any more hHeyoles than what we already had. Time will tell.

He gives us more vesatility to get pass rush from the interior from  NT on passing downs, He also is a better 5 tech then RJF, RJF is more of a 3 Tech

[AntonMcG]

He gives u more vesatility to get pass rush from the interior from  NT on passing downs, He also is a better 5 tech then RJF, RJF is more of a 3 Tech

 

That is pure speculation as I didn't see any of that from him in Baltimore.

[Gavin]

That is pure speculation as I didn't see any of that from him in Baltimore.

He wasn't just brought in for the sole purpose of playing the 5 tech

[AntonMcG]

He wasn't just brought in for the sole purpose of playing the 5 tech

 

No, he will move around yes, but your assertion that he will be inserted to contribute to the pass-rush on passing downs is unfounded speculation, as he did none of that in Baltimore.

[Gavin]

No, he will move around yes, but your assertion that he will be inserted to contribute to the pass-rush on passing downs is unfounded speculation, as he did none of that in Baltimore.

Holy smokes, Its not rocket science to see part of the reason he was brought here was to provide more of a pass rush.

[AntonMcG]

Holy smokes, Its not rocket science to see part of the reason he was brought here was to provide more of a pass rush.

 

It's obvious to see the main reason he was brought in was his run-stuffing capabilities which was a huge problem area for our d-line last year. And if they also expected pass-rushing contributions from him, why would it be from NT specifically? It's not as if the Ravens used him that way.

 

I think he will move around, but I don't see what he gives us from a pass-rush perspective that we didn't already have. Our d-line needs to open more holes and get more pocket disruption as a whole... I don't know if Jones is the answer to that specific issue.

[YOUR GM]

I don't think we take a major leap on defense until Manusky is fired or magically learns how to coach. Way too vanilla, and plays into mismatches too much. Anytime your middle linebacker is flanked wide guarding the other team's best receiver, something has gone horribly wrong. I could see us being lower middle of the pack, but never top 10 with this coordinator 

[COLTS449]

Our defense has a chance to be really good, like top 10 good, but that depends on things like the development of Werner, Hughes, Chapman, and Howell, and Landry and Toler staying healthy. Our front 7 should be way better with the addition of Jones and DQ, and we should be much better VS the run. The only thing I'm a little worried about is our depth at corner. I think we'll be alright at safety between Howell and the McDonald kid.

[Poster X]

I think the defense will be improved, but we will have to see how much once the take the field. They will be a little faster... and more hardnosed. I'm expecting to see some hard hitters out there in the horseshoe. The middle should be more beefy that is for sure.

[Can'tStandYa]

We're a top 10 DEFENSE! And the only reason we're not any higher is due to youth.

Not true... We have the oldest defense in the national football league.

[rock8591]

We have a solid front 7

 

DE: Jones, Redding

NT: Chapman, Hughes, Pendleton or Kerr

DE: RJF, Moala

 

OLB: Mathis, Newsome, Odongo

OLB: Walden, Werner, Cam Johnson

MLB: Freeman, Shepherd, Andrew Jackson

MLB: D. Jackson, Josh McNary

[Reddog]

-facepalm-

 

All these dead-end caveats.

 

Systems work, people don't.

Systems come and go like the flavor of the month, it's the coach that can find the players to work his system that is successful - or visa versa.

[Reddog]

Holy smokes, Its not rocket science to see part of the reason he was brought here was to provide more of a pass rush.

If that's true we are in deep trouble...

[ColtsFanMikeC]

It will be interesting to see who steps up with Mathis out in the beginning.  I have always been a believer that the best thing for a secondary is a good pass rush. An improved Werner should be very helpful.  I am still not totally sold on Adongo (yes, he is a large physical freak - but he didn't seem to have the football instincts when he was in on STs to me -- hopefully he picks them up and can make an impact, but until I see it I won't believe it).  The addition of A. Jones on the line should help a lot with our run defense as should D'Qwell Jackson at ILB. 

I appreciate what Bethea did for  us, but he definitely lost a step last year and I don't think we will miss a beat with Howell in the line-up. I worry a bit about Howell and Landry staying healthy, and honestly, I worry more about Landry on the field.  I thought the few games where Howell started in place of Landry we saw a better secondary -- Landry is more of a 'highlight reel' but he overpursues and makes some pretty bad choices (a lot of the plays where he looks very fast and athletic chasing someone down should not have gotten behind him in the  first place) -- Howell seemed to keep everything in front of him and I think he will be very solid.

 

As noted, a healthy Toler is good for this defense -- if he is in the lineup, I think we have a top 10 group of corners in the league easily (I think V. Davis is a top 5 CB in the league and Butler is one of the best in the slot -- Butler seems to get exposed on the outside a bit, but  he is tremendous in the slot, so a healthy Toler really helps our corners). 

 

I expect us to see major improvements in Werner, McNary, Chapman, Hughes, and some others -- having Mathis out the first 4 games is not a good thing, but it might turn out to be a blessing in disguise if it forces Werner or someone else to step up as a major pass-rusher.  Unfortunately we have Peyton week 1 and a high-powered Eagles offense week 2  - but if it forces someone to emerge as a major threat it can only help us out when we get Mathis back.

 

I think we definitely have more talent on this year's defense than last years and that should only help us improve -- there will definitely be some fierce competition in camp to make the final 53 and like Pagano and Grigs say "Man sharpens man like iron sharpens iron".  If we stay healthy, I think we will be very much improved on D.

[swflacoltsfans]

The long pass is going to kill us this year.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

Before we win any titles, our defense needs to be top notch. Very few teams win it all

without a dominant defense......just ask Peyton Manning.

[NewColtsFan]

For what it's worth.....   these were our defensive rankings for last year....

 

 

Points allowed:  21.0  (9th)

 

Total defense:  357 yards  (20th)

 

Run defense:   125 yards  (26th)

 

Pass defense:   232 yards  (13th)

 

Takeaways:       15   (15th)

 

 

The only area we're really acceptable in......  is points allowed.     The other areas we need to be much, much better at.

 

There needs to be a much bigger commitment to the defense which I expect next year.  

[Dark Superman]

I think we are still a few pieces away from having a defense in which I believe could be top 10.

[Blueblazes]

We still need the top notch type player added to our defense especially with Mathis out for 4 games. We have added the ''solid'' type players that will help improve the D, but to make great strides, we need the pass rush to improve greatly, not just a little. We also need a cover safety. Sorry, but if I were coaching against Landry, I would throw his way continually. And hopefully, Jones helps the rush defense. No matter what coaching regime is in place, for some reason the Colts can not find a D-line that can consistently stop the run. It's not as important as it was a decade or two ago, but we've never done it well (except for the playoff run to the Super Bowl 41 win).