Luck favors bringing Jonathan Martin to Indy

[TKnight24]

no he was a rookie last year. He didn't play well either year

Okay, so 2 years. Give him till year 4. Not everyone can be RG3 or Andrew Luck you know

[jvan1973]

Okay, so 2 years. Give him till year 4. Not everyone can be RG3 or Andrew Luck you know

He might not want to play anymore

[The Fish]

Its illogical for Luck to be giving lip service about Martin based on Luck's experience with him. If the theory is that Luck secretly thinks Martin isn't that good, then what's the basis?

The basis is that Luck isn't in control of the situation, and he has nothing to gain by being professionally critical or rude or whatever when you could say, "yeah, good guy, hard worker". Nothing to it.

[OffensivelyPC]

 Well then maybe you're the one who should adjust their perspective. You do realize that Martin has struggled thus far in the pros right? Tony Mandrich was a beast in college and guess what? HE STRUGGLED MOST OF HIS CAREER. Martin has done nothing in his career so far to prove that he is a top level NFL tackle.

Has it not crossed your mind that maybe the psychological toll that Martin endured could have affected his playing?  Any NFL player would tell you that you need to be 100% focused to play well in the NFL, no distractions, and they all will cite several distractions such as family problems at home, money, etc.  Normal problems that affect real people every day. 

 

I'm just confused that, in light of that information, you feel that Martin should have risen above his teammates conduct and performed at a high level, when any NFL player would tell you that it's completely understandable why he did not.

[Modern]

Okay, so 2 years. Give him till year 4. Not everyone can be RG3 or Andrew Luck you know

RG3 ??? Really ???

[Modern]

Has it not crossed your mind that maybe the psychological toll that Martin endured could have affected his playing? Any NFL player would tell you that you need to be 100% focused to play well in the NFL, no distractions, and they all will cite several distractions such as family problems at home, money, etc. Normal problems that affect real people every day.

I'm just confused that, in light of that information, you feel that Martin should have risen above his teammates conduct and performed at a high level, when any NFL player would tell you that it's completely understandable why he did not.

Does anybody ever just play badly because they aren't that good ?

Every time a colts player stinks or a potential colts player stinks there are a million excuses made for the guy. Some guys just dont make it in the NFL.

If the FO is sitting there evaluating a guys performance and saying " I bet its because he was bullied that he stinks, let's bring him in" then we probably need new people evaluating talent.

There could be a million reasons why a player isnt playing well, but why try and diagnose it for a back up player ? He isnt worth the risk.

Maybe he had too many cordnators or didnt learn the playbook or the defense knew what he was doing, or maybe he just can't cut it in the league.

The only person I have seen not get a free pass on the excuse train is Satele, everyone else seems to have a million legitimate reasons for not playing well.

[TKnight24]

RG3 ??? Really ???

RG3 (Rookie Year)

[Jason_]

There could be a million reasons why a player isnt playing well, but why try and diagnose it for a back up player ? 

 

Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Steve Young were all back up players early in their careers.  

[SteelCityColt]

Does anybody ever just play badly because they aren't that good ?

Every time a colts player stinks or a potential colts player stinks there are a million excuses made for the guy. Some guys just dont make it in the NFL.

If the FO is sitting there evaluating a guys performance and saying " I bet its because he was bullied that he stinks, let's bring him in" then we probably need new people evaluating talent.

There could be a million reasons why a player isnt playing well, but why try and diagnose it for a back up player ? He isnt worth the risk.

Maybe he had too many cordnators or didnt learn the playbook or the defense knew what he was doing, or maybe he just can't cut it in the league.

The only person I have seen not get a free pass on the excuse train is Satele, everyone else seems to have a million legitimate reasons for not playing well.

You know this Is twice in one day.... Normally I don't agree with much you post but I do think you have a point here. Unfortunately not in this particular case.

Think about doing your job where you work with a total * canoe who in whatever way knows how to push your buttons, this being on top of coming in as the "new guy". Now imagine that your boss for want of a better simile is not only not going to help you if you take this it him but is condoning AND contributing to the behaviour. Are you going to perform to your best? For all the internet tough guys out there going I'm a big man I can take it, even reacting with anger, aggression or violence is going to have a negative impact on your performance and quite possibly your career. There is a locker room environment and then there is the circus that is the Dolphins.

Now flip it around and look at it from the Colts view. Martin will most likely get cut, there would be no trade cost to pick him up. Will he be able demand big money? No. What's the harm on picking him up for cheap, especially as he has a security blanket in terms of players he knows here and seeing what he can do at least in camp. He doesn't work out you cut him. No harm, no foul, just a sensible speculation.

[jvan1973]

You know this Is twice in one day.... Normally I don't agree with much you post but I do think you have a point here. Unfortunately not in this particular case.

Think about doing your job where you work with a total * canoe who in whatever way knows how to push your buttons, this being on top of coming in as the "new guy". Now imagine that your boss got want of a better simile is not only not going to help you if you take this it him but is condoning AND contributing to the behaviour. Are you going to perform to your best? For all the interne tough guys out there going I'm a big man I can take it, even reacting with anger, aggression or violence will have a negative impact on your performance. There is a locker room environment and then there is the circus that us the Dolphins.

Now flip it around and look at it from the Colts view. Martin will most likely get cut, there would be no trade cost to pick him up. Will he be able demand big money? No. What's the harm on picking him up for cheap, especially as he has a security blanket in terms of players he knows here and seeing what he can do at least in camp. He doesn't work out you cut him. No harm, no foul, just a sensible speculation.

best post in this thread

[SteelCityColt]

Thanks. I only agree with about 1/2 my posts too so I feel you! ;)

Hey I'll dish it out with posters if they irk me but I'm also the first to applaud something I think was put very well.

[Slick_Rick]

He said he'd want him on the team. He can't exactly say no. He's a good guy, and the guy is an old teammate. Calm down folks, he's not calling for Martin to take a starting job, just that he'd want him on the team. Its probably more PR than anything.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

You know why? Because he isn't good enough to start in the NFL.

 

 

...who are you to judge him...

 

[SteelCityColt]

best post in this thread

Too kind, but really when you read the report, even taking Martin out the equation the Phins should be ashamed to call themselves

a professional tram. Or even a team full stop.

For those with time on their hands...

http://63bba9dfdf9675bf3f10-68be460ce43dd2a60dd64ca5eca4ae1d.r37.cf1.rackcdn.com/PaulWeissReport.pdf

[OffensivelyPC]

Does anybody ever just play badly because they aren't that good ?

Every time a colts player stinks or a potential colts player stinks there are a million excuses made for the guy. Some guys just dont make it in the NFL.

If the FO is sitting there evaluating a guys performance and saying " I bet its because he was bullied that he stinks, let's bring him in" then we probably need new people evaluating talent.

There could be a million reasons why a player isnt playing well, but why try and diagnose it for a back up player ? He isnt worth the risk.

Maybe he had too many cordnators or didnt learn the playbook or the defense knew what he was doing, or maybe he just can't cut it in the league.

The only person I have seen not get a free pass on the excuse train is Satele, everyone else seems to have a million legitimate reasons for not playing well.

You could have saved yourself a lot of time if you realized that I never said anything abotu whether he was good or bad and/or if you realized that I never once said I think he should be a Colt.  Just a mere observation that 100 out of 100 football players would agree with and that is, he's a worse football player when he can't focus on the game because of off the field issues.  I don't see how this is even debatable.

[Modern]

You could have saved yourself a lot of time if you realized that I never said anything abotu whether he was good or bad and/or if you realized that I never once said I think he should be a Colt. Just a mere observation that 100 out of 100 football players would agree with and that is, he's a worse football player when he can't focus on the game because of off the field issues. I don't see how this is even debatable.

Wasnt really directed at you, just quoted you as a recent example.

[gacker65]

According to the report Martin never had issues with anything on the field. I'm sure college players talk just as much as NFL players. The problem was he felt stuck in a terrible team environment with no recourse.

Never said he had problems.  They NFL will be more as less teams and things pass faster.

I understand, he was in a bad environment.  There had to be other options than walking away from the team.

[Patagonia Chris]

Has it not crossed your mind that maybe the psychological toll that Martin endured could have affected his playing?  Any NFL player would tell you that you need to be 100% focused to play well in the NFL, no distractions, and they all will cite several distractions such as family problems at home, money, etc.  Normal problems that affect real people every day. 

 

I'm just confused that, in light of that information, you feel that Martin should have risen above his teammates conduct and performed at a high level, when any NFL player would tell you that it's completely understandable why he did not.

 

I think that if he was playing well this wouldn't even be a story. I think it was a multitude of things and he couldn't handle it anymore and had to find an escape from football and he blamed it on the bullying. These kind of things have been going on for years in the NFL and this is the first player that has came out and made it a big deal. I honestly doubt he even wants to play football again. His struggles in the NFL were a lot more than just bullying.

[Patagonia Chris]

Once again you take a quote completely out of context and try and twist it Brian Casserly. Are your posts serious or are you really just a bored guy who tries to play Skip Bayless on a team forum? Because I really can't tell.

[gacker65]

I do not think that would be a problem. There is a difference when that garbage is coming from your opponents, everyone expects them to be * but when it comes from your teammates and coaches and from one who is a team captain, that is a different story. There was no let up for Martin. He has heard crap from defenses all of his life. I think his teammates in Indy would stand up for him and after knocking a defensive player on his butt, they might just ask if he has anything to say to them....

Garbage from your opponents will be worse than anything he probably heard in his locker room.  So my original question still stands, what will Martin do on the field during game time. 

The crap he got in college is nothing like he gets in the NFL.  In College, your personal life isn't as well know as it will become in the NFL.

[gacker65]

lol this dude has been playing football since he was 10 years old. I'm sure he has heard trash talk on the field before....

Trash talk is one thing, when it turns personal it is another.  It is easy to get in an O-lineman's head when you are talking about his sister and mother and using their name.  They start playing with emotions and lose their head.  When that happens, you own him.

As I said in original post, I do not condone bullying and what happened in the locker room was exactly that.  My question has to do with his on the field play when opposing Defenses get their shot at him on the field.

[21isSuperman]

He should Defend Icognito? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhahahhahahahahahha!

I don`t think you have witnessed or experienced anything like this therefore it is beyond your comprehension.

Icognito was part of a Veteran Pack. Martin did what he had to do to survive. And then he couldn`t take it anymore.

 Others around the situation failed to intervene and tell those jackheads to fly right because they were also cowardly. Period.

 I`ll let others evaluate Martins skill set and potential.

 Who is our current back up LT and should we look to upgrade that? Last season i guess Reitz was it when healthy, or Paganos Boy 4 Position Link.

 Reitz can`t stay healthy and Link - well i have NOTHING nice to say about his ability.

 So Now, some think Nixon might be the guy. We saw him play VG at guard and he should be OK as a backup RT. Left Tackle????

 I would be shocked if Martin wasn`t an upgrade over Link as a backup. He is just a guy to be considered to me.

 

 

 

 

Exactly!!

 

Don't think of it as defending Incognito.  Rather, think of it as going by the truth.  Martin needs to own up to his own mistakes too.  Instead of showing some integrity and character, he let the media trash Incognito while he sat quietly and let it happen.  I don't care for either Martin or Incognito, but Martin made it worse for himself when he actively ignored the truth.  Read the text message exchanges they had and you'll see Martin is not innocent at all.  He contributed...in fact, he went out of his way to contribute to the dynamic he had with Incognito. 

 

I have to disagree... i don't think he failed his teammates in anyway. The dolphins and his teammates ( i use the word teammates loosely) failed Martin in every way. I am not saying Martin couldn't have handled the situation better, I am simply saying he shouldn't have had to be in that situation.

I agree.  He shouldn't have had to be in the situation.  What happened there was not acceptable and should not occur at all.  But Martin ignored the truth and made it worse for himself.  He handled it in what I think is one of the worst ways possible: ignore the truth, pretend you don't hear it when people are trashing someone else, and let it all happen obliviously when you know people don't have the whole story.

[SLILLINGTON10]

I am against bullying.

With that said, I played Defense and believe me Martin will not stand a chance if he gets on the field again.  The Defense is going to be 10 times worse than Incognito and the others.  What is Martin going to do then, allow his QB to get sacked or worse.  The idea is to make the Offensive man lose his temper or get emotional.  If you do, you are in his head and own him from then on, as you know what buttons to push to get him riled.  Might not be right, but it happens (did it myself). 

The question should be, "what is Martin going to do when this kind of thing happens on the field?". 

IMO, I do not want him as a Colt.

I think taking abuse from an an opposing team for 3 hours, is much different than taking abuse from your own team everyday for years on end. Also, i would hope the refs step in if some player was saying he was going to rape another players sister.

[Dickerson29]

You know this Is twice in one day.... Normally I don't agree with much you post but I do think you have a point here. Unfortunately not in this particular case.

Think about doing your job where you work with a total * canoe who in whatever way knows how to push your buttons, this being on top of coming in as the "new guy". Now imagine that your boss for want of a better simile is not only not going to help you if you take this it him but is condoning AND contributing to the behaviour. Are you going to perform to your best? For all the internet tough guys out there going I'm a big man I can take it, even reacting with anger, aggression or violence is going to have a negative impact on your performance and quite possibly your career. There is a locker room environment and then there is the circus that is the Dolphins.

Now flip it around and look at it from the Colts view. Martin will most likely get cut, there would be no trade cost to pick him up. Will he be able demand big money? No. What's the harm on picking him up for cheap, especially as he has a security blanket in terms of players he knows here and seeing what he can do at least in camp. He doesn't work out you cut him. No harm, no foul, just a sensible speculation.

I would like to pick up on this point, because I read 5 pages before I seen anybody pick up on this angle. Suspose you were a devout christian an you went to college to be an accountant(or fill in the occupation). Now you graduate, get your dream job and move out of state where there's no family. But when you get to this dream job all the coworkers are drunks or druggies( ie a bad work environment). They are always going to the clubs after work and teasing you cause you wont party with them. They're always doing things together and you feel alone. Remember this is your fist big boy job so you have to think maybe this is the way it is. So what do you is, you try to fit in without losing your values. You say I will go, but I will only drink water. Believe me I don't drink and you wont believe how far many have gone to get me to take a drink.You always have that one person that decides they are gonna change you and will push very hard to make that happen. The sad part is that Incognito probably did look at him as a brother, like that big brother that pestered the hell out of you when you were ten, It wasn't funny then and it ain't funny now. The point Im trying to make is that some of you are mistaking size for adult maturity.Im 56 yrs old and I know exactly what he should of done now, but i might not of when I was  at 23 yrs old. Thanks

[NewEra]

I'm saying! At that case, sign me up for ILB next to Freeman. I'm 6'4 260 & I'd probably run a 5.0 flat in the 40 yard dash

You need to lay off the apple juice! Maybe you can pack on some more weight and we can play you at gaurd!

[NewEra]

I think taking abuse from an an opposing team for 3 hours, is much different than taking abuse from your own team everyday for years on end. Also, i would hope the refs step in if some player was saying he was going to rape another players sister.

Wouldn't hear it. There's no way refs can try to police what is said on the field.

[TKnight24]

You need to lay off the apple juice! Maybe you can pack on some more weight and we can play you at gaurd!

Nope, I won't play guard. I seen Trent Richardson in action. He won't be running into the back of me. Mess around give me back spasms

[throwing BBZ]

Nope, I won't play guard. I seen Trent Richardson in action. He won't be running into the back of me. Mess around give me back spasms

 

Now that is funny!

[Modern]

Martin is on the molly and the devil weed.

[Beauregarde]

If Martin was on drugs or weed, he would be caught in the drug testing program.

Edited February 28, 2014 by 21isSuperman

[jvan1973]

If Martin was on drugs or weed, he would be caught in the drug testing program.

you don't actually believe there aren't guys in the NFL using banned substances that don't get caught do you?

[Beauregarde]

you don't actually believe there aren't guys in the NFL using banned substances that don't get caught do you?

Of course there are and more get caught all of the time. I just said that saying that about Martin with no evidence is a low blow and uncalled for in my opinion.

[jvan1973]

Of course there are and more get caught all of the time. I just said that saying that about Martin with no evidence is a low blow and uncalled for in my opinion.

i think he was referring to the text Martin sent incognito about drug use

[Modern]

He sent a text saying he was on molly and that he was getting drugs from Pouncy.

I have never done molly, but I seen a few videos of people on it, doesnt look like something an emotionally and possible mentally unstable individual should mess with.

[Modern]

He sent a text saying he was on molly and that he was getting drugs from Pouncy.

I have never done molly, but I seen a few videos of people on it, doesnt look like something an emotionally and possible mentally unstable individual should mess with.

[OffensivelyPC]

I think that if he was playing well this wouldn't even be a story. I think it was a multitude of things and he couldn't handle it anymore and had to find an escape from football and he blamed it on the bullying. These kind of things have been going on for years in the NFL and this is the first player that has came out and made it a big deal. I honestly doubt he even wants to play football again. His struggles in the NFL were a lot more than just bullying.

I think that's a lot of speculation.  Who knows why he hasn't been playing well.  Maybe it has something to do with the Incognito situation.  Maybe it doesn't.  But I really am puzzled why you think this wouldn't be a story simply because Martin hasn't been playing well.  No one really knew who he was until this whole situation.  That to me doesn't make sense.

 

More importantly, I don't understand why this conduct should be permitted simply because its' been condoned before.  This country has condoned all sorts of conduct that would practically be crucified by the general public and media today (i.e. homosexuality).  Just because it was culturally accepted before doesn't mean it should be accepted today.

[Patagonia Chris]

 

 

 

 

 

Way to take a quote of mine completely out of context and twist it. Do you think you're clever or funny? Because I don't think anyone else thinks you are.

[SOMDColtsfan]

No to Martin in Indy

[Track Guy]

Just thought of the perfect trade. Jonathan Martin for Samson Satele.

[21isSuperman]

Just thought of the perfect trade. Jonathan Martin for Samson Satele.

Interestingly, Satele was actually drafted by the Dolphins