Luck favors bringing Jonathan Martin to Indy

[jvan1973]

You don't let the locker room pick and choose who will be their teammates. They are being paid to play with whoever management brings in, period.

So Ritchie Incognito would be fine with you if management brought him in

[Modern]

Then Luck and Fleener shouldn't comment

[Beauregarde]

So Ritchie Incognito would be fine with you if management brought him in

I did not say that. Anyone management brings in is fine with me though. I may disagree with it and I would say so right here but I wouldn't get a vote on it and neither should the players.

[Beauregarde]

Then Luck and Fleener shouldn't comment

Luck and Fleener can lobby for anyone they want to in my opinion. But if management does not bring them in or brings someone else in instead, that is the end of it and that includes Pouncey and Incognito.

[GoColts8818]

You don't let the locker room pick and choose who will be their teammates. They are being paid to play with whoever management brings in, period.

I don't think the locker room is trying to pick their players.  Favoring someone being brought it in is far cry from trying to pick your teammates.  I also highly doubt Luck would have a problem with who the team brought in and would probably play with whoever. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

AC absolutely should be a RT. These Gomers were dumb enough to hire a shabby Center and bring back a Guard who clearly can`t play the position. Pagano Loves Link.

Remember they kept Olson on the 53 man roster. The guy couldn`t come close to doing a pull and got shoved around worse than Satele. But i bet he was a good teammate, worked hard in the weight room, and learned the playbook faster than some other FAR Superior line project.

They will stick with AC at LT till the cows come home. Run Andrew Run!

"These Gomers" my sides are gone.

[Naptown Lifer]

Agreed.....

 

Sam.....Martin....Incognito....

 

NO to each and every one of them.....and the media circus they bring.

 

"Why take a chance?"

greatest post ever because of the gif roflcopter! Hes a great guy will never flip...I knew his father, stand up guy..the kids a freakin marine tough as nails...

 

the way i see it...why take a chance? ha

 

favorite movie 

[Naptown Lifer]

Well, let's see...

 

One began displaying the behavioral problems that would follow him throughout his career when he arrived at College. During his second game, he was accused of spitting on a player. Two weeks later, he was ejected for picking a fight in a blowout loss. In the second-to-last game of the season he was flagged for a 15-yard personal foul penalty late in the game that largely contributed to his team's loss. He got in a fight during practice and was suspended indefinitely by his head coach. Who then sent him to anger management treatment.He was then involved in another fight and was charged with three counts of assault. He was suspended indefinitely for repeated violations of his College team's rules. And then he got into another fight in the locker room. He was forced to transfer to another school, only to be dismissed from that team a week later. By the grace of God he was drafted and voted (by fellow NFL players) the dirtiest player in the league. He harassed a female volunteer at a celebrity golf tournament. He rubbed her privates with a golf club, pressed his johnson against her behind and when he was immediately rebuffed he threw a glass of water in her face. Forcing other Dolphins players to intervene and apologize for his behavior....behavior that led to an out of court settlement by turd boy. Prior to joining the hapless Dolphins, in four years with the Rams he drew 38 penalties, including seven unnecessary roughness calls (more than any other player during that span). Fined 5 times for $75,000 and warned by the league that he faced suspension if he did not change his on the field behavior.

 

The other was one of two freshman starters on a College offensive line that allowed a conference low seven sacks, enabling Andrew Luck to lead that conference in passing efficiency. And on the ground, his RB rushed for a school-record 1,871 yards and 28 touchdowns. Gaining (again as a freshman) honorable mention All-Pac 10 and a second team freshman All-American honors. His sophomore year, was named a first team All-American as a member of an offensive line that allowed six sacks and enabled Andrew Luck to again lead the Pac-10 in passing efficiency. As a junior, he was again an All-American. Drafted by a crap franchise, coached by a halfwit offensive line coach (who has since been fired) and placed in a position he did not play in college while enduring criminal behavior by his "teammates", his performance magically just fell off.

 

I think the overwhelming majority of Colts fans would choose the latter and run the former clean out of town.

i see you forgot to add to martins resume that hes a drug user DURING THE SEASON he displayed the same type of behavior as richie but gets a pass for some reason (ever hear the whole would you jump off a bridge if they did thing? well obviously not) and he followed incognito around like a puppet or a dog to strip clubs and everything else the guy isnt smart, doesnt play well, cant stick up for himself, and gets high during the season (it didnt sound like just weed either) why you continue to stick up for this guy like he is some persectued martyr monk is beyond me. It wouldve been different if he didnt follow incognito around and act like everything was cool VOLUNTARILY OUTSIDE OF WORK   and still hasnt had ONE teammate go out on public record and say hey incognito was wrong, martin was right. maybe you should include these FACTS in your next propaganda piece

[SteelCityColt]

i see you forgot to add to martins resume that hes a drug user DURING THE SEASON he displayed the same type of behavior as richie but gets a pass for some reason (ever hear the whole would you jump off a bridge if they did thing? well obviously not) and he followed incognito around like a puppet or a dog to strip clubs and everything else the guy isnt smart, doesnt play well, cant stick up for himself, and gets high during the season (it didnt sound like just weed either) why you continue to stick up for this guy like he is some persectued martyr monk is beyond me. It wouldve been different if he didnt follow incognito around and act like everything was cool VOLUNTARILY OUTSIDE OF WORK   and still hasnt had ONE teammate go out on public record and say hey incognito was wrong, martin was right. maybe you should include these FACTS in your next propaganda piece

 

I must ask, and I will ask in manner that will hopefully communicate with you on your own level, DID YOU READ THE REPORT? 

[Naptown Lifer]

Has he ever played guard?

doesnt matter. you should know by now all offensive line positions are interchangeable and moving players in the nfl to completely different positions is a smart thing to do. the change is little to minimal and if a player doesn't succeed at it, it is because they just dont care. this is especially true for the offensive line, guards tackles center, its just a bunch of fat guys that all do the same thing so lining them up in a different order isnt a big deal, they are just like kids in school who want to sit in a certain spot that is the only reason they are where they are. 

 

some other things you may not have picked up from the forum;

 

all wins pagano has against top teams do NOT count, the wins arent because of pagano they are in spite of him, the other teams played so horrible some how pagano managed to win by lucking out

 

all losses pagano has are his fault entirely and are because of "his oldschool approach" players skill levels, officiating, etc is all to be put on pagano

 

pagano is the GM and hand picks "his boys" people who cant necessarily play football but come over and make a mean margarita and play pinochle with him

 

the wins against oakland, Tennessee and jacksonville dont count because they suck, if you dont blow out terrible teams and set offensive records your scheme clearly doesnt work and the win is null and void

 

pagano doesnt care about adding talent to the roster, but only protecting "his boys"  and keeping them on the team for no other reason than to log onto the colts forum and laugh at the posts that criticize him for keeping them 

[Naptown Lifer]

I must ask, and I will ask in manner that will hopefully communicate with you on your own level, DID YOU READ THE REPORT? 

the first 44 pages, until i realized that nobody was coming out named and saying anything

 

that report made that lawyers career, he wouldve found "evidence conducive to harrasment" in any nfl locker room

 

maybe now you can think of something of substance to add to the debate

[HarassedOffTheSite]

i see you forgot to add to martins resume that hes a drug user DURING THE SEASON he displayed the same type of behavior as richie but gets a pass for some reason (ever hear the whole would you jump off a bridge if they did thing? well obviously not) and he followed incognito around like a puppet or a dog to strip clubs and everything else the guy isnt smart, doesnt play well, cant stick up for himself, and gets high during the season (it didnt sound like just weed either) why you continue to stick up for this guy like he is some persectued martyr monk is beyond me. It wouldve been different if he didnt follow incognito around and act like everything was cool VOLUNTARILY OUTSIDE OF WORK   and still hasnt had ONE teammate go out on public record and say hey incognito was wrong, martin was right. maybe you should include these FACTS in your next propaganda piece

 

Oh relax.

[ColtsBlueFL]

the first 44 pages, until i realized that nobody was coming out named and saying anything

 

that report made that lawyers career, he wouldve found "evidence conducive to harrasment" in any nfl locker room

 

maybe now you can think of something of substance to add to the debate

 

Well, if you would have really read the report, you would have seen the NFLPA and the NFL (and investigators themselves) protected all players ( outside of Martin, Incognito, Pouncey, and J. Jerry) from being publicly named, no matter what statements they made.  These players were interviewed at length to corroborate statements made by either Martin or Incognito.  They protected identities because if they did not, there would never be any cooperation by players and coaches in future investigations kicking off a firestorm of litigation outside the NFL.

[ColtsBlueFL]

i see you forgot to add to martins resume that hes a drug user DURING THE SEASON he displayed the same type of behavior as richie but gets a pass for some reason (ever hear the whole would you jump off a bridge if they did thing? well obviously not) and he followed incognito around like a puppet or a dog to strip clubs and everything else the guy isnt smart, doesnt play well, cant stick up for himself, and gets high during the season (it didnt sound like just weed either) why you continue to stick up for this guy like he is some persectued martyr monk is beyond me. It wouldve been different if he didnt follow incognito around and act like everything was cool VOLUNTARILY OUTSIDE OF WORK   and still hasnt had ONE teammate go out on public record and say hey incognito was wrong, martin was right. maybe you should include these FACTS in your next propaganda piece

Disregardng Martin for a moment, please respond to these-

 

• Three other past or current Dolphins players also were subjected to ridicule, as was an assistant athletic trainer, who was mocked because of his Japanese heritage.

 

• Dolphins trainer Kevin O’Neill laughed along at some of these off-color jokes but also at one point pulled Martin aside and told him to stand up for himself.

 

• O’Neill and Turner never acted further on Martin’s behalf (i.e., taking the matter to coach Joe Philbin), allowing the behavior to continue.

 

• Pouncey and Turner bent the truth — if not lied outright — to Wells and his staff when pressed about details that others had corroborated.(Wow! at this)

 

Martin was/is not capable of sticking up for himself.  He admitted so to his parents months before he left.  As far as following around, participating, etc..  this behavior of 'trying to fit in' was identified as typical and consistent for abuse victims, as was not reporting the incident for fear of further ostracizing himself from the O line group.  He did not report

 

According to Wells consulting psychologist, William H. Berman, Ph.D., an expert in matters relating to workplace dynamics, interaction and culture and interpersonal dysfunction within workplace relationships, this factual scenario is consistent with a case of an abusive workplace relationship.

 

I just wonder how many additional pages are secret for the NFL only.

[Naptown Lifer]

ok.... fine

 

Disregardng Martin for a moment, please respond to these-

 

• Three other past or current Dolphins players also were subjected to ridicule, as was an assistant athletic trainer, who was mocked because of his Japanese heritage.

 

• Dolphins trainer Kevin O’Neill laughed along at some of these off-color jokes but also at one point pulled Martin aside and told him to stand up for himself.

 

• O’Neill and Turner never acted further on Martin’s behalf (i.e., taking the matter to coach Joe Philbin), allowing the behavior to continue.

 

• Pouncey and Turner bent the truth — if not lied outright — to Wells and his staff when pressed about details that others had corroborated.(Wow! at this)

 

Martin was/is not capable of sticking up for himself.  He admitted so to his parents months before he left.  As far as following around, participating, etc..  this behavior of 'trying to fit in' was identified as typical and consistent for abuse victims, as was not reporting the incident for fear of further ostracizing himself from the O line group.  He did not report

 

According to Wells consulting psychologist, William H. Berman, Ph.D., an expert in matters relating to workplace dynamics, interaction and culture and interpersonal dysfunction within workplace relationships, this factual scenario is consistent with a case of an abusive workplace relationship.

 

I just wonder how many additional pages are secret for the NFL only.

 

1. the assistant trainer denied the acts of bullying again more anonymous hearsay from unnamed sources and gave traditional japanese headbands to the guys who made fun of him and were racists, Incognito/Company. hmm not something i do to people that make me sob into my pillow at night

2.nothing wrong with laughing and telling someone to stand up for themselves in fact martin admitted frequently laughing when HE felt people were being made fun of. why can he get  all buthurt for the comments but when it happens to someone else hes incognitos right hand buddy and right there to laugh along and poke fun with him which he admits to doing

3. maybe they didnt think anything was wrong when he was busy laughing at other people and making fun of them also, they probably thought he wasnt a little hypocrite mommas boy snitch who would  cry when it happens to him but feel he was above the treatment enough to follow his master incognito around and spew the same nonsense he did voluntarily

4.if you actually READ THE REPORT you would notice that it is written with a lot of rhetoric that makes the reader think everything points at incognito when in fact 95 percent of the people the lawyer interviewed said nothing bad happened and called martin out, yet 100 percent of what is reported comes from a minority view with little to no rebuttall. He pretty much comes out and says yeah everyone says nothing happened, but there were 5 people who did so the whole report will be about them. now i realize this is the issue at hand and most important, but if you're going to conduct an objective report on harassment in the workplace and only report one small minority side to the equation it goes to show there was no objectivity shown at all, and the lawyer was clearly going to find harrasment one way or another

 

now as to my opinion on the matter, some of the things incognito said were nasty, and the guy has a history of being a *, but i dont agree with the whole give martin a pass on all his red flags that scream he can not play in the nfl just for that. everyone gets picked on when they were kids and it can be painful and the memmories dont leave, it sucks i know but it is something that is isolated to elementary and middle school. we all can grow up to handle bullys and act like adults and not a scared wuss. you can be a tough guy by saying "look dude if you talk about my sister again ill report you and get your rearend in the can, and you can call me a snitch all you want while i ink my next bonus" that is being tough. Anymore "tough" guys the type of guys who really like to fight i mean get a kick out of it, theyre almost all labled as violent felons for simple assault/battery etc so what can you do to guys like richie? Ive been rambling but heres my point: getting picked on sucks i know and im sure many of us here know, but dont let that cloud your judgement about johnathan martin. Ever been picked on and just wish someone would tell the bully off, but theyre all too busy laughing at you? well guess what that guy laughing and helping egg the bully on was Johnathan Martin , pretty sad that the person so damaged from bullying participated in it. 

[Iancolts]

Look everybody in thier lifetime has used drugs everybody now getting caught got it is another thing lol

[Beauregarde]

Look everybody in thier lifetime has used drugs everybody now getting caught got it is another thing lol

Not everybody. I have never used drugs, smoked weed or anything else. I don't smoke and I have a few glasses of wine per year. I am sure there are many more like me out there.

[Naptown Lifer]

Not everybody. I have never used drugs, smoked weed or anything else. I don't smoke and I have a few glasses of wine per year. I am sure there are many more like me out there.

That means you aren't cool

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Look everybody in thier lifetime has used drugs everybody now getting caught got it is another thing lol

 

***Dumbest Post of the Year Nominee***

[NFLfan]

Disregardng Martin for a moment, please respond to these-

• Three other past or current Dolphins players also were subjected to ridicule, as was an assistant athletic trainer, who was mocked because of his Japanese heritage.

• Dolphins trainer Kevin O’Neill laughed along at some of these off-color jokes but also at one point pulled Martin aside and told him to stand up for himself.

• O’Neill and Turner never acted further on Martin’s behalf (i.e., taking the matter to coach Joe Philbin), allowing the behavior to continue.

• Pouncey and Turner bent the truth — if not lied outright — to Wells and his staff when pressed about details that others had corroborated.(Wow! at this)

Martin was/is not capable of sticking up for himself. He admitted so to his parents months before he left. As far as following around, participating, etc.. this behavior of 'trying to fit in' was identified as typical and consistent for abuse victims, as was not reporting the incident for fear of further ostracizing himself from the O line group. He did not report

According to Wells consulting psychologist, William H. Berman, Ph.D., an expert in matters relating to workplace dynamics, interaction and culture and interpersonal dysfunction within workplace relationships, this factual scenario is consistent with a case of an abusive workplace relationship.

I just wonder how many additional pages are secret for the NFL only.

It is clear that no one can reason with the person that you quoted. You, Steel City Colt, Brian Casserly, Beauregarde, Southwest 1 and many others have done a great job here. What I find is that many people, including some on this board, will defend the bully but not the bullied in almost all circumstances. One individual here has argued that Martin should have come to Incognito's defense. Why? The bullied person should defend the bully who caused him emotional and psychological distress??? I don't get it.

I have yet to be convinced that taking a chance on Martin would be a bad move by the Colts, if they don't have to give up anything. Luck wants him and is friends with him. Fleener has defended him. The offensive coordinator knows him. What can go wrong? I am not concerned about his mediocre play the past year and a half given the circumstances there in Miami.

I believe that many of Martin's detractors are worried that he might actually succeed here while Incognito may remain unemployed.

[ColtsBlueFL]

ok.... fine

 

when in fact 95 percent of the people the lawyer interviewed said nothing bad happened and called martin out, yet 100 percent of what is reported comes from a minority view with little to no rebuttall. He pretty much comes out and says yeah everyone says nothing happened, but there were 5 people who did so the whole report will be about them.

 

Post your proof, of such a claim... Over 100 interviews were conducted.  So finding hard print backing shouldn't be hard, right? I've posted many statements from the report I READ in multiple previous posts.

 

now as to my opinion on the matter, some of the things incognito said were nasty, and the guy has a history of being a *, but i dont agree with the whole give martin a pass on all his red flags that scream he can not play in the nfl just for that. everyone gets picked on when they were kids and it can be painful and the memmories dont leave, it sucks i know but it is something that is isolated to elementary and middle school. we all can grow up to handle bullys and act like adults and not a scared wuss.

 

Well.not everybody, it seems. You are entitled to an opinion, doesn't mean its right 100% all of the time...

 

you can be a tough guy by saying "look dude if you talk about my sister again ill report you and get your rearend in the can, and you can call me a snitch all you want while i ink my next bonus" that is being tough. Anymore "tough" guys the type of guys who really like to fight i mean get a kick out of it, theyre almost all labled as violent felons for simple assault/battery etc so what can you do to guys like richie? Ive been rambling but heres my point: getting picked on sucks i know and im sure many of us here know, but dont let that cloud your judgement about johnathan martin. Ever been picked on and just wish someone would tell the bully off, but theyre all too busy laughing at you? well guess what that guy laughing and helping egg the bully on was Johnathan Martin , pretty sad that the person so damaged from bullying participated in it. 

 

So sad you and a ton of others don't recognize that is a typical response from certain personality's, and trying to get along with the bully's of the world. The bully's see it immediately and capitalize and expand on it.  But professional psychologists, whose expert testimony in a court of law carries weight, know better.  And such attitudes were cited in the report.  Did you read that in the report you supposedly read, and claim I did not?  Hmmmm....

[Modern]

I dont think its just a matter of players being put off by Martin, I think after the fallout in Miami that trainers and coaches would also want little to do with him.

The locker room is an all male environment full of guys in their mid to late 20's for the most part. When I was that age and with my friends the sex jokes and making fun of the size of someone's manhood never ended. We were constantly making jokes at each others expense, its how we had fun and bonded.

Throwing Martin in that kinda situation would be the equivalent of throwing in let's say the preachers son. Suddenly the jokes and fun ain't flowing, everyone is kinda on eggshells because they dont know how to act. Some players will resent him because his presence changed their locker room, others will just avoid him because of the fallout in Miami.

Its quite possible that even the trainers and coaches wouldn't know how to approach him. Nobody wants to be fired.

They might be hesitant to raise their voice or yell at him.

Then you may have a few players getting warnings and things from the coaching staff about how they need to act around him, this won't sit well with the players.

Now let's say Martin doesnt play well and you decide to cut him, there is always the chance that he could cry bully again. True or not the media will take notice. Or he may not say anything and just accept being cut and the media themselves could cry bully.

Yes all this is speculation, but the Colts bringing in Martin, or Martin even being a serviceable backup is just speculation at this point.

Personally I wouldn't take him, he has baggage and is a potential media circus, he doesnt fill a position of dire need.

Miami is kinda in a no win situation with him, can't keep him because you have some of the bullies still on the team and he has stated that he doesnt want to stay, but cutting him will look like you are punishing the victim to some people. I dont want the Colts to end up in a similar situation.

[Naptown Lifer]

 

ok..

 

So sad you and a ton of others don't recognize that is a typical response from certain personality's, and trying to get along with the bully's of the world. The bully's see it immediately and capitalize and expand on it.  But professional psychologists, whose expert testimony in a court of law carries weight, know better.  And such attitudes were cited in the report.  Did you read that in the report you supposedly read, and claim I did not?  Hmmmm....

 

wow your lack of knowledge of the american legal system like many others is appalling. you realize psychologists go into the court all the time and the defense's psychologist says one thing and the prosectutions psychologist says the exact opposite. Just because something bad happens to you doesnt excuse your behavior. too many people are teaching the kids this these days and its very scary. "oh its okay you did the wrong thing and hurt someone elses feelings, it happened to you." yeah i dont think so. ill read the report later to find the very small ammount of space it gives to say that most people thought nothing happened and get back to you when i do, since i know you wizzed right by it and are consumed by the rhetoric in the report to read little things like that objectively for what it is

 

and im not even disagreeing if anyone was bullied, im just saying martin shouldnt get a pass for being a tool, and the report was written subjectively and tailored to one agenda (warren commision)

[jvan1973]

wow your lack of knowledge of the american legal system like many others is appalling. you realize psychologists go into the court all the time and the defense's psychologist says one thing and the prosectutions psychologist says the exact opposite. Just because something bad happens to you doesnt excuse your behavior. too many people are teaching the kids this these days and its very scary. "oh its okay you did the wrong thing and hurt someone elses feelings, it happened to you." yeah i dont think so. ill read the report later to find the very small ammount of space it gives to say that most people thought nothing happened and get back to you when i do, since i know you wizzed right by it and are consumed by the rhetoric in the report to read little things like that objectively for what it is

and im not even disagreeing if anyone was bullied, im just saying martin shouldnt get a pass for being a tool, and the report was written subjectively and tailored to one agenda (warren commision)

Did you just compare this to the Kennedy assassination? Wow, this and your love for curtis painter is truly disturbing.

[SteelCityColt]

and im not even disagreeing if anyone was bullied, im just saying martin shouldnt get a pass for being a tool, and the report was written subjectively and tailored to one agenda (warren commision)

 

 

Wait...what? Lee Harvey bullied Martin, not Richie Incognito on the grassy knoll. 

 

People we're through the looking glass. 

[Naptown Lifer]

Did you just compare this to the Kennedy assassination? Wow, this and your love for curtis painter is truly disturbing.

 

 

Wait...what? Lee Harvey bullied Martin, not Richie Incognito on the grassy knoll. 

 

People we're through the looking glass. 

wow i hope i dont run into you in debate class the ad hominems are just over whelming! now i know you live for these little one sentence posts telling people theyre wrong, i know thats what gets you off. theres nothing like typing "you are wrong" 30 different ways a day i know. but please, if you cant understand why i would compare what i consider to be an agenda driven tailored report to the warren commision, then do us and everyone else a favor and go crack a damn book. maybe then you will find more stuff to tell people theyre wrong about

 

you mustve been worse than the worse know it all in class and was the kid that just stared at everyones dicks in the locker room and changed in the stall and told people theyre dick was small 

 

the whole curtis painter sarcasm you just couldnt help yourself on could you? you just had to argue that curtis painter really was bad...how witty you are my friend

[NFLfan]

wow i hope i dont run into you in debate class the ad hominems are just over whelming! now i know you live for these little one sentence posts telling people theyre wrong, i know thats what gets you off. theres nothing like typing "you are wrong" 30 different ways a day i know. but please, if you cant understand why i would compare what i consider to be an agenda driven tailored report to the warren commision, then do us and everyone else a favor and go crack a damn book. maybe then you will find more stuff to tell people theyre wrong about

you mustve been worse than the worse know it all in class and was the kid that just stared at everyones dicks in the locker room and changed in the stall and told people theyre dick was small

...

Nothing that has been said thus far warranted this kind of response.

I had wondered why you were so vehement in your defense of Incognito. I now see that you may see yourself when you hear and read about him. You both lack impulse control and use vulgar and inappropriate language; you sound like a bully. Since you exhibit the same type of behavior, it is no wonder that you would defend him.

[shecolt]

wow i hope i dont run into you in debate class the ad hominems are just over whelming! now i know you live for these little one sentence posts telling people theyre wrong, i know thats what gets you off. theres nothing like typing "you are wrong" 30 different ways a day i know. but please, if you cant understand why i would compare what i consider to be an agenda driven tailored report to the warren commision, then do us and everyone else a favor and go crack a damn book. maybe then you will find more stuff to tell people theyre wrong about

 

you mustve been worse than the worse know it all in class and was the kid that just stared at everyones dicks in the locker room and changed in the stall and told people theyre dick was small 

 

the whole curtis painter sarcasm you just couldnt help yourself on could you? you just had to argue that curtis painter really was bad...how witty you are my friend

 

Well, now, that was a bit out of line . . . to say the least.

[SteelCityColt]

wow i hope i dont run into you in debate class the ad hominems are just over whelming! now i know you live for these little one sentence posts telling people theyre wrong, i know thats what gets you off. theres nothing like typing "you are wrong" 30 different ways a day i know. but please, if you cant understand why i would compare what i consider to be an agenda driven tailored report to the warren commision, then do us and everyone else a favor and go crack a damn book. maybe then you will find more stuff to tell people theyre wrong about

 

you mustve been worse than the worse know it all in class and was the kid that just stared at everyones dicks in the locker room and changed in the stall and told people theyre dick was small 

 

the whole curtis painter sarcasm you just couldnt help yourself on could you? you just had to argue that curtis painter really was bad...how witty you are my friend

 

A little confusing as you quoted us both there so not sure which bits of abuse were aimed at whom but hey ho I'll just aim for it all applying to me and we can work backwards from there . Don't think my response really runs into the realm of being an ad hominem, I may have been a little satirical in my response but if your comparison can't stand up to a little bit of ridicule that maybe it's ridiculous.  

 

I like too the two extremes of stereotype you paint me as there, on the one hand saying I'm a bookish know it all who uses knowledge to pull people down and on the other hand saying I'm a "locker jock". Hey I'm not complaining if you want to infer that I'm smart and well endowed  ;)

 

As for Curtis Painter... I don't have to argue he was really bad, he managed that all by himself.