Dear Mr. Manning ...

[Nadine]

Please remember we do not allow rumors.........especially not defamatory rumors

 

6. No “nonsense” posts, this includes rumors.

[IndyTrav]

Please remember we do not allow rumors.........especially not defamatory rumors

 

6. No “nonsense” posts, this includes rumors.

 

Am I allowed to share thru PM? Because I didn't post a rumor.  

[sweetsurrender]

I will never understand why parents of all people idolize sports stars. Haven't we learned from the likes of Kobe, Tiger, and Arod that these guys are not perfect? Manning seems like a great guy in front of the camera but who really knows the man personally? I like to believe the best about everyone but this idol worship seems over the top to me to the point that the people who are actually in the know about Manning the football player, i.e. Carter, Greenberg, get criticized for saying he played a bad Super Bowl which he did.

 

It also seems to be a disturbing trend with Manning that when he plays a poor game the default response seems to be talk about what a great guy he is kind of in the vein of Tebow. Not sure why that is necessary as Wilson seems like a pretty great guy too along with a host of others that play the game the right way.

[chad72]

It also seems to be a disturbing trend with Manning that when he plays a poor game the default response seems to be talk about what a great guy he is kind of in the vein of Tebow. Not sure why that is necessary as Wilson seems like a pretty great guy too along with a host of others that play the game the right way.

 

Lets look at it objectively.

 

Yes, this mom's letter would be valid 10-20 years from now when talking about Peyton's personal legacy. His personal legacy is great and might be on par with the personal legacies of so many current QBs, we really don't know. So like you said discussion of the other personal legacies is not as dear to people's hearts here, understandably so on this forum.

 

If his football legacy still rings with hollow endings, what else are they going to talk about after this step back for his legacy (major or minor, it is subjective)? People made excuses for Marino and Elway during their hey days too when they went 0-1 and 0-3 at certain points in time but in retrospect, they say that Elway's teams were much more flawed. The salary cap and the strength of the NFC then allows it to be a valid excuse, IMO. For a team like the Broncos to be on the losing end of so many blowout losses makes you wonder if Elway's hand as a QB and GM leads to a structure of a team softer than expected while playing physical teams. It does need to be examined too, along with what we are looking at with John Fox and Peyton Manning.

 

I was one that gave Peyton a real long leash with respect to his playoff performances, you can look at my posting history as to how objectively I looked at his playoff performances instead of running with the herd that wanted to easily berate him without paying attention to the details. It had been a while (since 2004) that he had a playoff performance like this. In terms of his football play, I really felt disappointed that his play only validated the claims that he does not play loose when the lights shine bright at the biggest stage. I feel exhausted and dejected placing my bets and chips on the Peyton playoff table constantly defending him, I am moving on from that. I am calling this "playoff debacle" spade a spade, nothing more nothing less.

[Nadine]

Am I allowed to share thru PM? Because I didn't post a rumor.  

 

PM is not any of my business unless a pm is harassing or otherwise unwelcome 

In which case, they can report it

 

When personal messages are reported, we take a look at them then

[sweetsurrender]

Lets look at it objectively.

 

Yes, this mom's letter would be valid 10-20 years from now when talking about Peyton's personal legacy. His personal legacy is great and might be on par with the personal legacies of so many current QBs, we really don't know. So like you said discussion of the other personal legacies is not as dear to people's hearts here, understandably so on this forum.

 

If his football legacy still rings with hollow endings, what else are they going to talk about after this step back for his legacy (major or minor, it is subjective)? People made excuses for Marino and Elway during their hey days too when they went 0-1 and 0-3 at certain points in time but in retrospect, they say that Elway's teams were much more flawed. The salary cap and the strength of the NFC then allows it to be a valid excuse, IMO. For a team like the Broncos to be on the losing end of so many blowout losses makes you wonder if Elway's hand as a QB and GM leads to a structure of a team softer than expected while playing physical teams. It does need to be examined too, along with what we are looking at with John Fox and Peyton Manning.

 

I was one that gave Peyton a real long leash with respect to his playoff performances, you can look at my posting history as to how objectively I looked at his playoff performances instead of running with the herd that wanted to easily berate him without paying attention to the details. It had been a while (since 2004) that he had a playoff performance like this. In terms of his football play, I really felt disappointed that his play only validated the claims that he does not play loose when the lights shine bright at the biggest stage. I feel exhausted and dejected placing my bets and chips on the Peyton playoff table constantly defending him, I am moving on from that. I am calling this "playoff debacle" spade a spade, nothing more nothing less.

I agree with all of this. The excuse making is somewhat to be expected as you say as that is par for the course with great QBs. You have a valid point too about Elway but I have always felt his 80's team just were not on the same planet as the NFC teams during that decade ... but still the games were not even competitive for a Qb that most consider to be top 5. And now you have this debacle -  like you said and it raises questions about his ability to put together a physical team to at least compete.

 

In terms of Manning, I  have also defended him as he did have some playoff games where he played very well and lost which is the same for most Qbs in the post-season. But by the same token he has some real duds too. What sets this apart in my mind is that he had a similar performance vs the Patriots the year be broke the TD record - only managed 3 points in that one and several interceptions. As you say sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. For whatever reason he gets tight in big games often. This game showed that from beginning to end. 

 

And while I can appreciate this parent's feelings toward him, in the end he plays football. We know him because he plays football and criticism of his game is par for the course. I think at times fans which I realize is short for fanatics have a tough time separating criticism of their favorite players' game from the person.

[Naptown Lifer]

And you never saw him out? *coughHooterscough*

 

I just tire of all the hero worship....Great job signing autographs and being well spoken, and being polite when your in the limelight, and near cameras. 

 

People see 30 min of someone 1 day a week for 20 weeks a year in a controlled environment, and suddenly they are moral compasses for the masses. And words like "class" are thrown around like we actually have any idea as to what these people are truly like. 

 

People have every right to emulate, and praise for accomplishments within the field of play, strive for that all you want, 'play the game the right way' sure....But leave it at that folks.....

Yeah man I see manning at ricks on Lafayette rd (personal fav) every Friday throwing stacks with a line of girls out his VIP room, oh and don't forget his favorite hang outs at 10th and rural and New York and arsenal outside the crack and dope houses buying mad rocks

Grandpa clothes and all!

[Mameluc]

what the heck did chris carter said? it seems seahawks and broncos hate him

[chad72]

what the heck did chris carter said? it seems seahawks and broncos hate him

 

Chris Carter basically said we constantly make excuses for Peyton. Dilfer said people made excuses for Marino too. QB fraternity knows how it is to play the position and all the accolades and criticisms that come with it, so they will stick with each other.

 

Here is the clip of Chris Carter vs Trent Dilfer: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10395017

 

 

On the Seahawks front, Carter said the Seahawks WRs are like appetizers, not the main course. Doug Baldwin went off on him saying he may be a HOF WR but his analyst skills are not up to par - here is the link:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/03/doug-baldwin-to-cris-carter-your-analytical-skills-arent-up-to-par-yet/

 

The transition from an adrenalin rush and testosterone based trash talking football player to an analyst that has to research what he is spouting out of his mouth is not an easy one. Chris Carter runs his mouth a bit too much sometimes.

[Mameluc]

Chris Carter basically said we constantly make excuses for Peyton. Dilfer said people made excuses for Marino too. QB fraternity knows how it is to play the position and all the accolades and criticisms that come with it, so they will stick with each other.

 

Here is the clip of Chris Carter vs Trent Dilfer: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10395017

 

 

On the Seahawks front, Carter said the Seahawks WRs are like appetizers, not the main course. Doug Baldwin went off on him saying he may be a HOF WR but his analyst skills are not up to par - here is the link:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/03/doug-baldwin-to-cris-carter-your-analytical-skills-arent-up-to-par-yet/

 

The transition from an adrenalin rush and testosterone based trash talking football player to an analyst that has to research what he is spouting out of his mouth is not an easy one. Chris Carter runs his mouth a bit too much sometimes.

i see thanks!

[Mameluc]

Chris Carter basically said we constantly make excuses for Peyton. Dilfer said people made excuses for Marino too. QB fraternity knows how it is to play the position and all the accolades and criticisms that come with it, so they will stick with each other.

 

Here is the clip of Chris Carter vs Trent Dilfer: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10395017

 

 

On the Seahawks front, Carter said the Seahawks WRs are like appetizers, not the main course. Doug Baldwin went off on him saying he may be a HOF WR but his analyst skills are not up to par - here is the link:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/03/doug-baldwin-to-cris-carter-your-analytical-skills-arent-up-to-par-yet/

 

The transition from an adrenalin rush and testosterone based trash talking football player to an analyst that has to research what he is spouting out of his mouth is not an easy one. Chris Carter runs his mouth a bit too much sometimes.

just saw it. I GET SO * OF with the whole  "big game" ...jesus christ, if he had lost to the chargers or the pats that would have another choke and a big game...but since he won those are not 2 big games?  wow what a nice way to make argument and make it look better for you...if the outcome is good for me then it svalid,  if its not,.hey lets wait for him to lose so he we can he use that specific instance to validate my point: cant win.  jesus

[oldunclemark]

   A lot of media are tired of Manning

 

They don't dislike him...they're just tired of praising his efforts..because its boring..

 

In  sports media...it seems you have to bad mouth guys so someone will listen to you...

 

/././././But in the 'age of incognito'..the public is always gonna love Peyton because he conducts himself with honor in victory and defeat..

 

;.....fans want to think most football players are people of character and Manning helps them believe that

[southwest1]

Legacy obviously has more than 1 dimension to it. On 1 level, it's about a player's impact on the game itself. On a 2nd level, it's about a player's conduct off the field like a goodwill NFL ambassador. On a 3rd level, its comeback wins, regular season wins, Playoff appearances, & MVP Awards, & on a 4th level it's a SB victories. They matter to me. Can every QB win them? No, but I don't put much stock in what a mother said regarding Manning or the Broncos. Why? It's the same reason why you can't put your mother down as a job reference on your resume. She can't be objective. "So I am undeniably biased." Journalist  Laurie Lattimore-Volkmann does deserve credit for her honesty there. 

 

Mothers can address character issues, how you treat others, & overall kindness that their child displays to those less fortune than them or someone who is suffering through no fault of their own. But, evaluating Manning's game performance is another matter entirely. Laurie essentially wrote an opinion piece on what a swell guy Peyton is not that there is anything wrong with that. I just find it odd that so many reporters love to write articles about what a great guy is rather then breakdown constructively why the Broncos lost the SB. I want to figure out a way to get Peyton another ring by analyzing why he lost & none of those questions will ever get answered if everytime 18 loses a SB reporters flood the market with a billion articles about how Peyton is such a swell guy. Okay, Peyton is a darn nice guy, but why are his losses glossed over just because 18 is so nice? 

 

I don't blame Peyton for this. I blame the media. I want Peyton to win a 2nd ring darn it & I don't care anymore how nice he is. How bout asking what are the stumbling blocks preventing Manning from getting a 2nd ring? Let's start to see a flurry of articles on that for a change. JMO. I want solutions not love fest Manning pieces. I want an elaborate methodology on how to win the SB for Peyton not just get there & come up short. How do the Broncos jump that final elusive hurdle? That's all I care about. Other than my beloved Colts naturally. 

[southwest1]

   A lot of media are tired of Manning

 

They don't dislike him...they're just tired of praising his efforts..because its boring..

 

In  sports media...it seems you have to bad mouth guys so someone will listen to you...

 

/././././But in the 'age of incognito'..the public is always gonna love Peyton because he conducts himself with honor in victory and defeat..

 

;.....fans want to think most football players are people of character and Manning helps them believe that

No OUM, they are growing weary of seeing Manning have an incredible regular season, Playoff run, & then fall just short of the ultimate Lombardi prize. A familiar letdown pattern gets tedious & cumbersome after awhile. That burden with the same final result at year's end is tough to defend & pump yourself up for with each new season praying that this time the conclusion will be different. 

[Narcosys]

Chris Carter basically said we constantly make excuses for Peyton. Dilfer said people made excuses for Marino too. QB fraternity knows how it is to play the position and all the accolades and criticisms that come with it, so they will stick with each other.

Here is the clip of Chris Carter vs Trent Dilfer: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10395017

On the Seahawks front, Carter said the Seahawks WRs are like appetizers, not the main course. Doug Baldwin went off on him saying he may be a HOF WR but his analyst skills are not up to par - here is the link:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/03/doug-baldwin-to-cris-carter-your-analytical-skills-arent-up-to-par-yet/

The transition from an adrenalin rush and testosterone based trash talking football player to an analyst that has to research what he is spouting out of his mouth is not an easy one. Chris Carter runs his mouth a bit too much sometimes.

he wasnt wrong about seattles WR's. Seattles WR are not considered best in the league. They have more depth but less skill.

[sweetsurrender]

he wasnt wrong about seattles WR's. Seattles WR are not considered best in the league. They have more depth but less skill.

Good points and I would trust Cris Carter's opinion of WRs. 

[Buck Showalter]

I was just curious but how bad was it in Indy prior to Manning? I know about the hospital he built and such but what exactly happened there as a result of him being with the Colts? I know a ton of money was brought it to help you build the new stadium but I always get a sense when I see a thread like this that there was something more to the story then just money and wins on the field.

Downtown Indy definitely saw a resurgance in business & attractions in the early & mid 2000s...

Got to think that the Colts success during that time had to help...

[oldunclemark]

No OUM, they are growing weary of seeing Manning have an incredible regular season, Playoff run, & then fall just short of the ultimate Lombardi prize. A familiar letdown pattern gets tedious & cumbersome after awhile. That burden with the same final result at year's end is tough to defend & pump yourself up for with each new season praying that this time the conclusion will be different. 

The 'grown weary' argument shows a vast lack of perspective..

 

 

When Indy won in 2006...it was said that Peyton was finally a champion and he would have to listen to the 'falling short of the ultimate' argument

 

...Then that season was quickly forgotten because on sports talk media you must be negative to be heard..

 

When DEnver was 13-3 it was aid they probabaly wont go 13-3 again..

 

It was said the SD had the 'formula to beat Manning.

 

It was said that Tom Brady 'always' beats Manning.

 

Had Denver beaten Seattle ..we would still be debating what Peyton hasnt done. I think we can all agree on that...becauser that's always the case and we have the evidence of that

 

Listen to the talk about how 'Tom Brady hasnt won in 10 years'..he's 3-time world champ..he was 12-4

But he 'hanst won anything in 10 years?  Seriously?   That;s not the real world.

 

Manning and Brady don't need defending by the media.,.they just a constant reteling of the whole story

big games (even regular season playoff implication showdowns) count when they talk of 'big games'

 

Media lusts after the 'next big thing' and that's not old QBs.

 

Give RG3 Manning';s 2013 numbers and he'd be on ESPN 7 days a week

[southwest1]

The 'grown weary' argument shows a vast lack of perspective..

 

 

When Indy won in 2006...it was said that Peyton was finally a champion and he would have to listen to the 'falling short of the ultimate' argument

 

...Then that season was quickly forgotten because on sports talk media you must be negative to be heard..

 

When DEnver was 13-3 it was aid they probabaly wont go 13-3 again..

 

It was said the SD had the 'formula to beat Manning.

 

It was said that Tom Brady 'always' beats Manning.

 

Had Denver beaten Seattle ..we would still be debating what Peyton hasnt done. I think we can all agree on that...becauser that's always the case and we have the evidence of that

 

Listen to the talk about how 'Tom Brady hasnt won in 10 years'..he's 3-time world champ..he was 12-4

But he 'hanst won anything in 10 years?  Seriously?   That;s not the real world.

 

Manning and Brady don't need defending by the media.,.they just a constant reteling of the whole story

big games (even regular season playoff implication showdowns) count when they talk of 'big games'

 

Media lusts after the 'next big thing' and that's not old QBs.

 

Give RG3 Manning';s 2013 numbers and he'd be on ESPN 7 days a week

Not when it keeps happening it doesn't OUM. And what does RG3 & Brady have to do with why 18 comes up short in the SB? Zero, zilch, nada.

 

This is what I mean when I say people try to change the argument or shield Manning from constructive criticism by bringing up other QBs numbers. Is Manning an elite HOF QB? Yes. Has 18 run into a SB stumbling block? Yes. Will this problem ever get solved by saying Manning is a swell guy with a great moral center? No, unfortunately not. 

[rittdk01]

I was just curious but how bad was it in Indy prior to Manning? I know about the hospital he built and such but what exactly happened there as a result of him being with the Colts? I know a ton of money was brought it to help you build the new stadium but I always get a sense when I see a thread like this that there was something more to the story then just money and wins on the field.

.

For real? Were talking ball games. Used to be a huge basketball town and the Pacers and Reggie miller were #1. This is sports your making it sound like Peyton became mayor and turned the city around. He made football a lot more fun to watch. The colts got really good, really popular and made a lot of $ so they could get a new stadium.

[amfootball]

.

For real? Were talking ball games. Used to be a huge basketball town and the Pacers and Reggie miller were #1. This is sports your making it sound like Peyton became mayor and turned the city around. He made football a lot more fun to watch. The colts got really good, really popular and made a lot of $ so they could get a new stadium.

I was just asking because at times the way he is revered makes it seem like he was mayor. I was just curious as to what happened in Indy. Thanks for your perspective. I know you are a big b-ball town. I was a huge fan of Reggie and of course being from Boston - Larry Bird.

[thedude]

I do not know Peyton Manning nor have I ever met him or had any contact with him, but based on how I've seen him interact with the media, I think I would dislike him personally. When he is asked a question that he feels is beneath him, he answers using a very pompous and professorial tone. I get the impression that he believes he should be approached and questioned differently than the other guys who play the game no matter who they are or what ever their achievements.

[braveheartcolt]

I do not know Peyton Manning nor have I ever met him or had any contact with him, but based on how I've seen him interact with the media, I think I would dislike him personally. When he is asked a question that he feels is beneath him, he answers using a very pompous and professorial tone. I get the impression that he believes he should be approached and questioned differently than the other guys who play the game no matter who they are or what ever their achievements.

How do you act when posed a question you think is stupid?

[thedude]

How do you act when posed a question you think is stupid?

I ignore it, but then I'm not required by my employer to conduct press briefings and answer questions posed by the media.

Plus, the questions Manning responds to in a pompous manner aren't dumb. They may be a bit uncomfortable sometimes, but not stupid.

I just think that Peyton Manning sometimes acts as though he's bigger than the game.

[jvan1973]

I ignore it, but then I'm not required by my employer to conduct press briefings and answer questions posed by the media.

Plus, the questions Manning responds to in a pompous manner aren't dumb. They may be a bit uncomfortable sometimes, but not stupid.

I just think that Peyton Manning sometimes acts as though he's bigger than the game.

please provide examples

[thedude]

Have you ever watched a post game press conference? Especially after a loss. Did you watch his interaction with the press after the Super Bowl? And you still don't understand what I mean?

[jvan1973]

Have you ever watched a post game press conference? Especially after a loss. Did you watch his interaction with the press after the Super Bowl? And you still don't understand what I mean?

That was a dumb question after the superbowl. Next example please

[thedude]

That was a dumb question after the superbowl. Next example please

So, the more humiliating the loss, the more of a pass he gets to be a condescending, pompous jerk?

[thedude]

I know manning is an icon here, but can't one even face the truth?

[Buck Showalter]

I know manning is an icon here, but can't one even face the truth?

objective truth or subjective truth???

[thedude]

objective truth or subjective truth???

Actual truth.

[oldunclemark]

I ignore it, but then I'm not required by my employer to conduct press briefings and answer questions posed by the media.

Plus, the questions Manning responds to in a pompous manner aren't dumb. They may be a bit uncomfortable sometimes, but not stupid.

I just think that Peyton Manning sometimes acts as though he's bigger than the game.

subjective truth

[jvan1973]

So, the more humiliating the loss, the more of a pass he gets to be a condescending, pompous jerk?

how exactly was he pompous? He answered the question honestly.

[thedude]

how exactly was he pompous? He answered the question honestly.

I'll give you that one.  He's naturally and honestly a bit pompous

[jvan1973]

I'll give you that one. He's naturally and honestly a bit pompous

to you maybe. To most, not so much

[thedude]

to you maybe. To most, not so much

Maybe here, but I'm sure most across the country are closer to my view

[southwest1]

Have you ever watched a post game press conference? Especially after a loss. Did you watch his interaction with the press after the Super Bowl? And you still don't understand what I mean?

 

 

That was a dumb question after the superbowl. Next example please

I would not subscribe to the unfounded belief that Peyton is " a bit pompous." Manning is a competitor who loves to win & he refuses to dwell on the negative. Everything revolves around what the team did well & what they need to work on. Peyton is always moving forward to the next game, the next challenge, & I respect that. 

 

I will concede that I thought that 1st question to Manning at the press conference was a legitimate one. Was it in bad taste? No, absolutely not. Peyton was able to hug his family in the locker room, interact privately with his teammates & coaching staff, change out of his NFL uniform, & collect himself emotionally. He had to anticipate that question especially when Champ Bailey pretty much called that performance "embarrassing" etc. The only way it would be deemed out of bounds to me is if a reporter asked Manning that question as he was literally running off the field at that moment. 

 

If Manning & the Broncos had won the SB, would a question asking him to critique his own individual performance that night been considered out of bounds? No, not all &, if that is indeed the case, the merits of asking that specific question should not change based strictly on a disappointing outcome or one that I & countless others did not want to see transpire live before a billion NFL fans. 

 

My point is this: Manning fans can't have it both ways: Love to see 18 speak when he pulls of a stunning victory, but try to shield him from a meaningful question when he experiences a crushing defeat on the biggest global stage in all of professional sports. Sorry, no one gets a pardon here not even the great Peyton Manning. 

 

IMO Manning is an exceptional QB & my respect for him has not diminished 1 bit. Will he win that 2nd elusive ring? Sigh...I'm pulling for 18 & will never root against him, but this season was his best shot & 38 is still 38. Yes, anything is possible. Can he get back to the SB? Absolutely Can he win another SB? That's a tough call to make right now in my estimation. 

[thedude]

I would not subscribe to the unfounded belief that Peyton is " a bit pompous."

Like I said, I'm pretty sure the majority of fans across the country are more in line with my view. People here look at him in the same way Bulls fans feel about Jordan.

[TAPLOOK]

Peyton's human he just happens to be one of the better QB's to ever play in the NFL. I think he's a little pompous as well but he has lived his life under a bubble which has got to be mentally draining.

 

I don't like when women use the "I'm a mom thing". It's nonsense. 

 

Sports players are entertainment and nothing more to a fan.

[southwest1]

Like I said, I'm pretty sure the majority of fans across the country are more in line with my view. People here look at him in the same way Bulls fans feel about Jordan.

Interesting comparison there. Peyton is like Jordan in that you are never out of any game you play in with him at the helm. And when Jordan won that game with a severe case of the flu, it reminded me of when Manning had bursa sac knee surgery & then ripped off 8 wins in the 2008 season to get INDY into the playoffs that year. 

 

If you only look at Jordan & Manning from a Championship victory perspective [6 rings to 1]; than no, but if you just look at sheer drive to compete over an extended period of time & establish a consistent pattern of regular season wins than yes the symbolic analogy between #23 & #18 works.