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Andrew Luck's Ball Placement


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Sorry for making another thread today, but I have little to occupy my mind as I am in the airport on my own.

A lot has been made of Andrew Luck's inconsistent ball placement, and I agree. It needs to improve. But am I the only one who feels he really improved as the season wore on. I mean the last few games it felt like he has consistently hitting people right between the numbers. He seems to really be getting a lot more accurate under durress, perhaps owing to no longer holding on to the ball so long like earlier in the season.

Thoughts?

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He seemed to me darned precise in last games, ball placement was OK from his side, he could hit precisely his wideouts even with long balls. His INTs can be considered as wrong decisions, and in few cases WRs were dropping the ball ( 2 times in 2 PO games). IMO he will improve his decision making in next season, but for God's sake, give that kid some working running plays to ease his burdens!

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Some of the perception of bad ball placement started after RW went down, and I'd speculate that a good portion of that was due to poor route running. Luck's completion percentage was much higher with RW than without.

I can't tell when an interception is entirely the QBs fault, or when it's on the receiver... but that first pick against the Pats left me wondering if Brazill was half a second late in making his cut, for an example. If Luck is expecting his guy to be at a certain point on the field, and throws to that spot, but the guy ends up a couple feet further than expected... the throw appears to be off target... but was it?

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Some of the perception of bad ball placement started after RW went down, and I'd speculate that a good portion of that was due to poor route running. Luck's completion percentage was much higher with RW than without.

I can't tell when an interception is entirely the QBs fault, or when it's on the receiver... but that first pick against the Pats left me wondering if Brazill was half a second late in making his cut, for an example. If Luck is expecting his guy to be at a certain point on the field, and throws to that spot, but the guy ends up a couple feet further than expected... the throw appears to be off target... but was it?

Good point, but I still feel like he has come into his own with regards to the accuracy of his balls. I feel like he has been dead on the past few weeks. Quite often he appeasred to overthrow reciever.

I expect he can raise his completions another 5% or so for next season. I see MVP talk.

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He improved alot. It still crops up occasionally. The Havili drop/interception wasn't really Luck's fault, but he put it on Havilis back shoulder and made the catch harder then it should have been.

Manning and Brady still aren't always perfect though, and they're all time greats.

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He improved alot. It still crops up occasionally. The Havili drop/interception wasn't really Luck's fault, but he put it on Havilis back shoulder and made the catch harder then it should have been.

Manning and Brady still aren't always perfect though, and they're all time greats.

I had just wiped that Havili into from my memory. Thanks... :(
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Some of the perception of bad ball placement started after RW went down, and I'd speculate that a good portion of that was due to poor route running. Luck's completion percentage was much higher with RW than without.

I can't tell when an interception is entirely the QBs fault, or when it's on the receiver... but that first pick against the Pats left me wondering if Brazill was half a second late in making his cut, for an example. If Luck is expecting his guy to be at a certain point on the field, and throws to that spot, but the guy ends up a couple feet further than expected... the throw appears to be off target... but was it?

 

The first INT was mostly on Luck.  He stared the receiver down and everyone in the stadium knew where that ball was going. 

 

Plus the coverage was good, even if he had not stared Brazil down there was a good chance Brazil doesn't make that catch with the CB all over him.  

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Sorry for making another thread today, but I have little to occupy my mind as I am in the airport on my own.

A lot has been made of Andrew Luck's inconsistent ball placement, and I agree. It needs to improve. But am I the only one who feels he really improved as the season wore on. I mean the last few games it felt like he has consistently hitting people right between the numbers. He seems to really be getting a lot more accurate under durress, perhaps owing to no longer holding on to the ball so long like earlier in the season.

Thoughts?

This is the kind of thing that patisans like Skip bayless ignore..

 

.....On more than one playoff throw..the reciver didn't come back to the ball and it was intercepted..

 

That didn't happen when Reggie was playing...

 

 

That's why interceptions and ratings like QBR and QB rating are misleading in rating a QB's skill

 

Some incompleetions are intentional...

 

All while  interceptions are on the QB.......the WR can turn them into completions if he's on his game. 

 

I dont worry about Andrew';s 7 playoff interceptions in 2 games where he was trailing almost all the way both times

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This is the kind of thing that patisans like Skip bayless ignore..

.....On more than one playoff throw..the reciver didn't come back to the ball and it was intercepted..

That didn't happen when Reggie was playing...

That's why interceptions and ratings like QBR and QB rating are misleading in rating a QB's skill

Some incompleetions are intentional...

All while interceptions are on the QB.......the WR can turn them into completions if he's on his game.

I dont worry about Andrew';s 7 playoff interceptions in 2 games where he was trailing almost all the way both times

Sometimes I feel like some analysts just look at stats. Every reputable analyst seems to agree that Luck is better than statistics indicate.

It's so hard to isolate what a player actually does from looking at stats. Even advanced stats don't tell the whole story.

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His ball placement has improved. He is not sailing the ball over his intended target, like he did last year and the earlier part of this year.

However, he is still bad at throwing to his left. He's consistently behind his target. The Pass intended to Hilton in the Chiefs game and pass intended to Havili were both identical-- late and behind. In both cases, they were tipped and intercepted. Further evidence of this can be seen going back and watching every throw to his left in the KC game and Pats game. He only had a few on target while most were slightly behind the receiver.

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His ball placement has improved. He is not sailing the ball over his intended target, like he did last year and the earlier part of this year.

However, he is still bad at throwing to his left. He's consistently behind his target. The Pass intended to Hilton in the Chiefs game and pass intended to Havili were both identical-- late and behind. In both cases, they were tipped and intercepted. Further evidence of this can be seen going back and watching every throw to his left in the KC game and Pats game. He only had a few on target while most were slightly behind the receiver.

Quite amusing because he always seems to throw perfect balls when he rolls right and throws across his body.

Are you the real slash?

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Sorry for making another thread today, but I have little to occupy my mind as I am in the airport on my own.

A lot has been made of Andrew Luck's inconsistent ball placement, and I agree. It needs to improve. But am I the only one who feels he really improved as the season wore on. I mean the last few games it felt like he has consistently hitting people right between the numbers. He seems to really be getting a lot more accurate under durress, perhaps owing to no longer holding on to the ball so long like earlier in the season.

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Worry about the Wr's getting separation , running the correct routes , catching the football. Then worry about the offensive line not getting Luck killed , then worry about the Richardson hitting the hole and both running backs picking up the blitz. Then think about how Pep was so committed to the running game and taking the ball out of Lucks hands , worry about Pagano having no idea how to manage the clock in the final two minutes and pray you don't need a critical decision on going for it or punting on 4th down.

 

That all said Andrew Luck has wonderful arm talent and don't worry about his ball placement.

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Worry about the Wr's getting separation , running the correct routes , catching the football. Then worry about the offensive line not getting Luck killed , then worry about the Richardson hitting the hole and both running backs picking up the blitz. Then think about how Pep was so committed to the running game and taking the ball out of Lucks hands , worry about Pagano having no idea how to manage the clock in the final two minutes and pray you don't need a critical decision on going for it or punting on 4th down.

 

That all said Andrew Luck has wonderful arm talent and don't worry about his ball placement.

 

I'm sure the WR coaches will be working with the WR's to help them get better separation, running corret routes and catching the football.  The OL coaches will work with the OL to help them protect Luck.  The RB coaches will be working with Richardson and the other backs.  Pep has been adjusting his philosophy as the season progressed but they do still need to establish an effective running game.  Pagano's game management also will adjust as he gains experience.

 

But I suppose Luck and the QB coach can just sit around playing their new Xbox Ones watching everyone else try to improve instead of also working on some of the things that he needs to improve on?

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I'm sure the WR coaches will be working with the WR's to help them get better separation, running corret routes and catching the football.  The OL coaches will work with the OL to help them protect Luck.  The RB coaches will be working with Richardson and the other backs.  Pep has been adjusting his philosophy as the season progressed but they do still need to establish an effective running game.  Pagano's game management also will adjust as he gains experience.

 

But I suppose Luck and the QB coach can just sit around playing their new Xbox Ones watching everyone else try to improve instead of also working on some of the things that he needs to improve on?

 

 

You need to have better reading skills son. What I'm saying is that Lucks ball placement is not a big issue. Talents like Luck will improve from year to year until they reach their prime. My opinion , which I tried to state with a little humor ,  was Lucks "ball placement " is not gone of my big worries for his team getting to the next level. I think if you look at the two 11-5 records and look at the 2012 and 2013 Colt rosters and 2013 injuries , it's pretty obvious that Andrew Luck is not the problem. But anyway... I did not say that Luck has no room for improvement . I said I'm more worried about what's going on around Andrew Luck than I am about a few off target balls... some which are probably not his fault.

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He improved alot. It still crops up occasionally. The Havili drop/interception wasn't really Luck's fault, but he put it on Havilis back shoulder and made the catch harder then it should have been.

Manning and Brady still aren't always perfect though, and they're all time greats.

 

The TY pick in the KC game was another catchable ball.  As a WR, you have to help out your QB.  Even if it's not a perfect pass, if it hits you in both hands/arms/body, you should catch it.

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Sorry for making another thread today, but I have little to occupy my mind as I am in the airport on my own.

A lot has been made of Andrew Luck's inconsistent ball placement, and I agree. It needs to improve. But am I the only one who feels he really improved as the season wore on. I mean the last few games it felt like he has consistently hitting people right between the numbers. He seems to really be getting a lot more accurate under durress, perhaps owing to no longer holding on to the ball so long like earlier in the season.

Thoughts?

 

LOL.  I must say, when I first read the title of your post, I thought you were mentioning the ball placement in his hand, as in his grip!  I was thinking, man the trolls are out today!  Glad it was not the case.  :)

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Luck definitely underthrows and overthrows from time to time, and it hurts the offense. But he sticks it in there more often than not. And with more time and developing more chemistry with his receivers, he'll get better at putting the ball where it needs to be.

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You need to have better reading skills son. What I'm saying is that Lucks ball placement is not a big issue. Talents like Luck will improve from year to year until they reach their prime. My opinion , which I tried to state with a little humor ,  was Lucks "ball placement " is not gone of my big worries for his team getting to the next level. I think if you look at the two 11-5 records and look at the 2012 and 2013 Colt rosters and 2013 injuries , it's pretty obvious that Andrew Luck is not the problem. But anyway... I did not say that Luck has no room for improvement . I said I'm more worried about what's going on around Andrew Luck than I am about a few off target balls... some which are probably not his fault.

 

 

That all said Andrew Luck has wonderful arm talent and don't worry about his ball placement.

 

Luck's ball placement is inconsistent and on occasion is downright poor.  There's nothing wrong with saying or admitting that.  

 

There was nothing factually incorrect about the OP's initial post.  He expressed that Luck was inconsistent with ball placement (which is true) and said that Luck had improved on that this year (which is also true).  There is still work to do though.  Obviously, there are other issues with the team and you pointed out the issues on offense.  Improving those things will certainly help.  However that is not to say that Luck still doesn't have some work to do and I have no doubt that he will do it and he will continue to improve.  

 

In my opinion, your post came of as dismissive to the OP's point and it read to me like you were saying there currently is nothing wrong with Luck's ball placement and that is not correct.

 

 

Ps.  Don't call me son.   :thmup: 

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Luck's ball placement is inconsistent and on occasion is downright poor.  There's nothing wrong with saying or admitting that.  

 

There was nothing factually incorrect about the OP's initial post.  He expressed that Luck was inconsistent with ball placement (which is true) and said that Luck had improved on that this year (which is also true).  There is still work to do though.  Obviously, there are other issues with the team and you pointed out the issues on offense.  Improving those things will certainly help.  However that is not to say that Luck still doesn't have some work to do and I have no doubt that he will do it and he will continue to improve.  

 

In my opinion, your post came of as dismissive to the OP's point and it read to me like you were saying there currently is nothing wrong with Luck's ball placement and that is not correct.

 

 

Ps.  Don't call me son.   :thmup:

 

 

"Young man ", what I said was that Luck's ball placement is far down the list as far as the Colt's problems and I'll stick to that. Every QB makes throws that are off target. Tom Brady , who coincidently like Luck has to adjust to a bunch of "unseasoned WR's" had tons of them.  If you look , you'll see their stats were pretty much identical . Anyway , there was nothing wrong with my post as it just expressed my opinion , which happens to be different than yours , it's not nearly the problem as the other things I mentioned. You stepped in and stated that I inferred that Andrew Luck is perfect and doesn't need to improve his game in any way what's so ever. That is a just plain a bad post on your part. And when I correct you , you can't just come back and say I'm wrong and it's (bad accuracy) is a problem and I'm wrong. I make it a point to always respect someones opinion (which you are not doing) and I never said the OP was full of crap . I just said in what I tried to make a bit off key and humerous that IMO , it wasn't a problem . Luck is probably as good as any QB I've seen in my 50 years of watching football ... AFTER YEAR TWO. 

 

God... almost identical.....

 

 

20 Andrew Luck, QB IND 343 570 60.2 3,822 6.71 73 23 9 32 87.0 239 RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G 21 Tom Brady, QB NE 380 628 60.5 4,343 6.92 81 25 11 40 87.3 271
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"Young man ", what I said was that Luck's ball placement is far down the list as far as the Colt's problems and I'll stick to that. Every QB makes throws that are off target. Tom Brady , who coincidently like Luck has to adjust to a bunch of "unseasoned WR's" had tons of them.  If you look , you'll see their stats were pretty much identical . Anyway , there was nothing wrong with my post as it just expressed my opinion , which happens to be different than yours , it's not nearly the problem as the other things I mentioned. You stepped in and stated that I inferred that Andrew Luck is perfect and doesn't need to improve his game in any way what's so ever. That is a just plain a bad post on your part. And when I correct you , you can't just come back and say I'm wrong and it's (bad accuracy) is a problem and I'm wrong. I make it a point to always respect someones opinion (which you are not doing) and I never said the OP was full of crap . I just said in what I tried to make a bit off key and humerous that IMO , it wasn't a problem . Luck is probably as good as any QB I've seen in my 50 years of watching football ... AFTER YEAR TWO. 

 

God... almost identical.....

 

 

20 Andrew Luck, QB IND 343 570 60.2 3,822 6.71 73 23 9 32 87.0 239 RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G 21 Tom Brady, QB NE 380 628 60.5 4,343 6.92 81 25 11 40 87.3 271

 

It seems as if Luck's ball placement and INTs increase when he asked to carry the team. It seemed to me that one of the main reasons his INTs went down in half is because they did not ask him to carry the O like last year under Arians. But then when the playoffs began, Pep basically said we are going to put the ball in Luck's hands and then the 7 picks in two games. Do you see a correlation or was his play more to do with the pieces around him?

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It seems as if Luck's ball placement and INTs increase when he asked to carry the team. It seemed to me that one of the main reasons his INTs went down in half is because they did not ask him to carry the O like last year under Arians. But then when the playoffs began, Pep basically said we are going to put the ball in Luck's hands and then the 7 picks in two games. Do you see a correlation or was his play more to do with the pieces around him?

I would argue that most of Luck's interceptions come when the Colts are trailing. I dont think it is the ball placement but the decisions he makes. Basically I feel he is trying to force the issue.

I feel the fact that he was playong from behind less played into the interception stats, but also there is a definite improvement.

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I would argue that most of Luck's interceptions come when the Colts are trailing. I dont think it is the ball placement but the decisions he makes. Basically I feel he is trying to force the issue.

 

 

Agree ...and some were due to things like Brazil probably not being where he was suppose to be on that 3 and 2 int. Maybe Andrew was throwing to a spot and Brazil was to be positioned to let let the CB get inside position ? We don't know but very possible. But like you say , Luck probably has a good idea of the math involved in coming back from big deficits and took some big chances. Probably felt some urgency , not like our coach who punts on 4th and one down 21 with 10 minutes left.

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It seems as if Luck's ball placement and INTs increase when he asked to carry the team. It seemed to me that one of the main reasons his INTs went down in half is because they did not ask him to carry the O like last year under Arians. But then when the playoffs began, Pep basically said we are going to put the ball in Luck's hands and then the 7 picks in two games. Do you see a correlation or was his play more to do with the pieces around him?

 

 

 

Naaa... I think what Pep should have said was "I'm not going to keep crippling this team by being a dunderhead."

 

 

Pretty simple answer to all this nonsense.

 

Colts roster 2012   terrible  11 wins and Luck sets a record for most come back wins.

 

Colts roster 2013   Horrible O line  Pedestrian D line  Bad secondary ( even Davis gave up big plays) Bad WR's   Good LB's  Good players... Luck , Freeman , Mathis , Cherlius , Castonzo , Fleener . Two pro bowlers and maybe Freeman. 

 

So ,IMO , either Pagano is a genius or Luck is just that good in crunch time to pull some wins out of the fire. IMO...this is a 5-6 win team without him. The 7 ints were a bad stat no doubt but let's not forget he (the Colts) put of 45 and came back from 28 down. Most football people thought that it was an incredible performance by Luck. Vs NE ..  1 int was off Havllli , another was with a minute left in the game. Another was a great play by Collins who dropped back 20 yards into coverage. The first one is hard to not believe Brazil ran a horrible 3 and 2 route and Andrew threw to a spot. But yeah... 7 ints is 7 ints .

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Naaa... I think what Pep should have said was "I'm not going to keep crippling this team by being a dunderhead."

 

 

Pretty simple answer to all this nonsense.

 

Colts roster 2012   terrible  11 wins and Luck sets a record for most come back wins.

 

Colts roster 2013   Horrible O line  Pedestrian D line  Bad secondary ( even Davis gave up big plays) Bad WR's   Good LB's  Good players... Luck , Freeman , Mathis , Cherlius , Castonzo , Fleener . Two pro bowlers and maybe Freeman. 

 

So ,IMO , either Pagano is a genius or Luck is just that good in crunch time to pull some wins out of the fire. IMO...this is a 5-6 win team without him. The 7 ints were a bad stat no doubt but let's not forget he (the Colts) put of 45 and came back from 28 down. Most football people thought that it was an incredible performance by Luck. Vs NE ..  1 int was off Havllli , another was with a minute left in the game. Another was a great play by Collins who dropped back 20 yards into coverage. The first one is hard to not believe Brazil ran a horrible 3 and 2 route and Andrew threw to a spot. But yeah... 7 ints is 7 ints .

I am with you on all that. But the question was not Luck's ability or potential as right now he seems to be one of the great young QBs and will be great for the next 10+ years. But this thread was about his accuracy which I found interesting. Not sure if you would agree that his 18 picks last year in addition to being his rookie season and him learning was due to the weight of the offense being on his shoulders. In the playoffs, the coaching staff once again said we will ride Luck which I agree was the right decision. But within that decision came the TOs in two playoff games and a few came before the Colts were behind by a lot in either game. So I was wondering if you think asking Luck to shoulder the team is where the inaccuracy and picks come in. Or is it more on the players around him. Perhaps it is a little of both or just the team not being there yet.

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...what I said was that Luck's ball placement is far down the list as far as the Colt's problems and I'll stick to that. ..

 

And that's fine.  I agree with that.  The OP would probably agree with that as well.  However THIS thread was to discuss Luck's ball placement...has he improved? Has he not?  Etc etc.

 

Anyway, it would appear misread the intent of your first post. When I first read it, it seemed dismissive towards the OP and just another "Luck can't do anything wrong, everyone else needs to improve but Luck is already perfect" rant that I've seen so often on here.  

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I am with you on all that. But the question was not Luck's ability or potential as right now he seems to be one of the great young QBs and will be great for the next 10+ years. But this thread was about his accuracy which I found interesting. Not sure if you would agree that his 18 picks last year in addition to being his rookie season and him learning was due to the weight of the offense being on his shoulders. In the playoffs, the coaching staff once again said we will ride Luck which I agree was the right decision. But within that decision came the TOs in two playoff games and a few came before the Colts were behind by a lot in either game. So I was wondering if you think asking Luck to shoulder the team is where the inaccuracy and picks come in. Or is it more on the players around him. Perhaps it is a little of both or just the team not being there yet.

 

I think it's a little of both.  The amount of pressure on Luck to carry the team after Reggie went down was tremendous.  Add to that in the playoffs the fact that the defense was abysmal and you have a guy that starts pressing.  Same thing would happen to Peyton and his INTs would go up.  Once Luck gets more experience and the team overall gets more talent I don't think you'll see another 2 game stretch with 7 INTs again.  Really, it's amazing to me how well he did with what he had to work with receiver wise.  TY is a VERY good player, but he's not dominant enough to be the only go to guy and be consistent.  After TY, you have Fleener, who just recently has become reliable, Whalen, who is a practice squad guy (he's got a future with the team as a 4th or 5th option, but not starting material), Brazill, another decent #4 type option, and Rogers who has loads of talent but is extremely raw.  Outside of your all pros/future hall of famers like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees there's not another QB in the league that's going to have much success with that level of talent at the receiving positions.  That doesn't even mention the problems on the offensive line either.

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His ball placement is fine. It's actually greatly improved from last year. Last year I remember him always missing high. He cut that down this season (hence less interceptions).

His long ball has been ridiculously good, where last year he missed on quite a few of those.

The thing that worries me is him staring down receivers sometimes and that's where his interceptions come from. He really didn't do this in the regular season, but did it quite a bit in the playoffs (no surprise he had all those ints).

Anyway, he has greatly improved from a stellar rookie season which is all you can ask for.

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And that's fine.  I agree with that.  The OP would probably agree with that as well.  However THIS thread was to discuss Luck's ball placement...has he improved? Has he not?  Etc etc.

 

Anyway, it would appear misread the intent of your first post. When I first read it, it seemed dismissive towards the OP and just another "Luck can't do anything wrong, everyone else needs to improve but Luck is already perfect" rant that I've seen so often on here.  

 

 

I've pretty much been entertaining myself through the whole thread. The first post probably was a little "dismissive towards the OP" . You're OK ... no problems with you or the OP.

 

Back to the question... I think Luck's accuracy improved tons from year one to year two. Forgetting the 7 ints , think a minute about the last 10 or so games. IMO.. he was heads and shouldres better on his down field throws than his first 18-19 games. If he missed on a bomb it was usually by about a foot and you really couldn't determine whether or not the WR could have caught it. But yeah .. he still misfires now and then .

 

 

 

*** Sorry to you guys that had posted that his long throws were much improved. I just answered Jason's post without reading that you guys had already mentioned that.

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Biggest thing I noticed is how much his long ball has improved.  He still has occasional accuracy issues, but that has improved as well.  Assuming he improves as much next year as he did this year watch out.

 

I agree he seems to have really "zeroed in" his long ball since last season.  If next season he shows the same improvement with the crossing routes, slants, etc ... where he gets the ball out in front of them a little and hits them in stride or throws them open, he will really start "turning the screws" on opposing DCs.

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