The Debate Continues........pm Vs Tb

[sb2001]

These past 6 games have really made me appreciate the greatness of Manning. Does anyone really think Brady could have done what Manning has done all these years?

While I think Tom is probably the 2nd greatest of all time, Peyton has to be considered the best to have won for so long with these misfits. We all knew that if PM got hurt it would be bad, but did we even imagine how bad it could be.

I'm just so glad I got to enjoy these years with Peyton on my favorite team and hope he comes back better than ever!

I really miss the PM vs TB comparisons during our annual game with New England. They are and will allways be my favorite games. Might be awhile be for we see them again. (Playoffs of 2012 I hope).

[-JJ-]

Who knows..maybe we'll see him Dec4th.

[oldunclemark]

JJ is right..

Manning vs. Brady at new England in December

..our 'other' Super Bowl

[Smitto]

I Love peyton, for christ sakes i have the guys name sketched on my SA80... But peyton was basically handed the keys to a Ferrari while Brady's more like a painter where not much is expected out of him yet he comes out has a stellar career... I didnt wanna admit it when it happened but the fact that the guy surpassed Peytons record for most TD's thrown in a season showed me that he was better than manning.

BUT manning means more to his team than anyone has in the history of sports and theres no denying that, peyton is one of the greatest players to ever play this game, but yes if brady was in peytons shoes and on this team he would have had pretty much the same success.

I still dislike Brady though

[21isSuperman]

I Love peyton, for christ sakes i have the guys name sketched on my SA80... But peyton was basically handed the keys to a Ferrari while Brady's more like a painter where not much is expected out of him yet he comes out has a stellar career... I didnt wanna admit it when it happened but the fact that the guy surpassed Peytons record for most TD's thrown in a season showed me that he was better than manning.

BUT manning means more to his team than anyone has in the history of sports and theres no denying that, peyton is one of the greatest players to ever play this game, but yes if brady was in peytons shoes and on this team he would have had pretty much the same success.

I still dislike Brady though

Peyton was given the keys to a Ferrari? The Colts went 3-13 the year they drafted him...

If anything, Peyton was given a Pinto and turned it into a Ferrari

[Smitto]

Peyton was given the keys to a Ferrari? The Colts went 3-13 the year they drafted him...

If anything, Peyton was given a Pinto and turned it into a Ferrari

Lol... ok maybe not a ferarri but he did have a great WR to throw to and an OK RB behind him basically two HOF's right there... although they let faulk walk.. james came in the next year.... my point is by the time peyton was setteled in he had pieces to work with.. where as brady not so much on offense..

[Coltsman1788]

Wow Smitto...a Colts fan not afraid to say that Brady is better than Manning. Refreshing...I respect that. I don't know that I necessarily agree but I would say that the argument is more debatable than alot of Colts fans want to believe. There are definitely some things that Brady does better. I am still partial to Peyton overall mainly because of his cerebral game but Brady has more of a killer instinct.

And yes it is true that the Colts surrounded Peyton with more weapons than Tom had early in their careers. Tom's got better weapons now and we are seeing what he can really do.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Coltsman1788

[CR91]

Lol... ok maybe not a ferarri but he did have a great WR to throw to and an OK RB behind him basically two HOF's right there... although they let faulk walk.. james came in the next year.... my point is by the time peyton was setteled in he had pieces to work with.. where as brady not so much on offense..

you seem to be forgetting that brady had really great defenses to keep him in games and a clutch kicker. tow things peyton never had in a consistent basis

Edited October 17, 2011 by coltsrule91

[CR91]

repost please delete

Edited October 17, 2011 by coltsrule91

[Smitto]

you seem to be forgetting that brady had really great defenses to keep him in games and a clutch kicker. tow things peyton never had in a consistent basis

Mike V?... true peyton never had a defense which is where the superbowl argument would come in... but when it comes to the offense and just the offense i would say its brady that deserves more credit.... Tom moore practically took peyton under his wing and molded him into and even greater player... where as bill was a defensive guy who was just a great coach all around... of course im ignoring his stint in Cleveland.

[CR91]

Mike V?... true peyton never had a defense which is where the superbowl argument would come in... but when it comes to the offense and just the offense i would say its brady that deserves more credit.... Tom moore practically took peyton under his wing and molded him into and even greater player... where as bill was a defensive guy who was just a great coach all around... of course im ignoring his stint in Cleveland.

mike v was never consisent when it mattered

[Smitto]

Wow Smitto...a Colts fan not afraid to say that Brady is better than Manning. Refreshing...I respect that. I don't know that I necessarily agree but I would say that the argument is more debatable than alot of Colts fans want to believe. There are definitely some things that Brady does better. I am still partial to Peyton overall mainly because of his cerebral game but Brady has more of a killer instinct.

And yes it is true that the Colts surrounded Peyton with more weapons than Tom had early in their careers. Tom's got better weapons now and we are seeing what he can really do.

Yea i remember the first time i was in a thread like this i voted for manning but looking back... i just gotta say its brady who is better.. forget his rings because thats a team accomplishments but looking at what he has done in the time he has played is quite amazing... especially for a 6th round pick.

[WSO]

I didnt wanna admit it when it happened but the fact that the guy surpassed Peytons record for most TD's thrown in a season showed me that he was better than ever

I'd hate to jump into this argument but Bradys 50 td season made him better than manning? 1 single more td?

[Mitch]

I Love peyton, for christ sakes i have the guys name sketched on my SA80... But peyton was basically handed the keys to a Ferrari while Brady's more like a painter where not much is expected out of him yet he comes out has a stellar career... I didnt wanna admit it when it happened but the fact that the guy surpassed Peytons record for most TD's thrown in a season showed me that he was better than manning.

BUT manning means more to his team than anyone has in the history of sports and theres no denying that, peyton is one of the greatest players to ever play this game, but yes if brady was in peytons shoes and on this team he would have had pretty much the same success.

I still dislike Brady though

You trollin? 1 more td in a season makes you a better player? And peyton was handed the keys to a ferrari? We were 3-13 the year we drafted him...and Tom has had some of the best defenses in the league(not so much this year) and a clutch kicker...Mike V was far from clutch. When Tom Brady was out for the year, Matt Cassel came in and still got an 11-5 record, obviously the Colts are much worse without Peyton than Patriots were without Brady.

[19colt]

The debate for who is better is over.

Colts without Manning ... 0-6

Pats without Brady ... Make playoffs and Cassell makes the Pro Bowl. Lets not forget Cassell was even more of an unknown than Brady was initially before Brady went down. Brady had one of the best defences ever, arguably the best head coach ever and has an offensive line that is unbelievably good.

Brady is a great QB and one of the best ever but as long as Manning comes back and plays at a high level the next 3-4 years then it should be a no brainer.

[manningup]

The only reason Tom (not that there's anything wrong with that) Brady threw for 50 td's and Peyton had 49 was that Peyton was pulled from several games without playing the 4th quarter because the game was already secured. In the Saints and Falcon's game (and I believe also Detroit), he had thrown 6 td's already before the 4th quarter and took a seat. In the last game of the regular season, he played only the 1st series before Sorgi took over. Peyton wasn't trying for individual stats. If he was, he probably could have thrown 55-60 that year.

In addition to that, he wasn't throwing jump balls to Randy Moss all season either. He had 3 receivers with over 1000 yards and 10 or more td's apiece. I'm doing this from memory so there's probably even more comparisons to show how great a year Peyton had. He also set the all-time record for highest qb rating.

Brady was playing full games and throwing td's in blowout wins. He didn't sit the final game as Peyton did. It was great to see Peyton's younger brother deny Brady and Bellicek (probably misspelled) not only an undefeated season, but a huge superbowl upset.

I think that Brady is an excellent qb, but there's no way he's been Peyton's equal. Not even close!!! When Brady was hurt ingame one a few years ago, jis team finished 11-5. Without Peyton, we're 0-6 and probably won't win 3 games. We could possibly run the table (0-16) if Jacksonville doesn't cooperate (and you can bet that they've penciled us in as 2 wins for themselves).

We've been so fortunate to have witnessed the greatest qb of all time play for our team. I don't think we knew just how bad we'd be without him. Unfortunately, now we know. I can't wait to see him play again next year, and hopefully for another 5-7 years......Go COLTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tsarquise]

lol @ the TD pass argument. Peyton would have likely had more than 49 touchdown passes if he hadn't had sit out the last game to the Broncos 2004... So yeah..... not a good argument... They're both good. But I'll take Peyton Manning any day of the week. Man this season sucks with out him.

[Tsarquise]

The only reason Tom (not that there's anything wrong with that) Brady threw for 50 td's and Peyton had 49 was that Peyton was pulled from several games without playing the 4th quarter because the game was already secured. In the Saints and Falcon's game (and I believe also Detroit), he had thrown 6 td's already before the 4th quarter and took a seat. In the last game of the regular season, he played only the 1st series before Sorgi took over. Peyton wasn't trying for individual stats. If he was, he probably could have thrown 55-60 that year.

In addition to that, he wasn't throwing jump balls to Randy Moss all season either. He had 3 receivers with over 1000 yards and 10 or more td's apiece. I'm doing this from memory so there's probably even more comparisons to show how great a year Peyton had. He also set the all-time record for highest qb rating.

Brady was playing full games and throwing td's in blowout wins. He didn't sit the final game as Peyton did. It was great to see Peyton's younger brother deny Brady and Bellicek (probably misspelled) not only an undefeated season, but a huge superbowl upset.

I think that Brady is an excellent qb, but there's no way he's been Peyton's equal. Not even close!!! When Brady was hurt ingame one a few years ago, jis team finished 11-5. Without Peyton, we're 0-6 and probably won't win 3 games. We could possibly run the table (0-16) if Jacksonville doesn't cooperate (and you can bet that they've penciled us in as 2 wins for themselves).

We've been so fortunate to have witnessed the greatest qb of all time play for our team. I don't think we knew just how bad we'd be without him. Unfortunately, now we know. I can't wait to see him play again next year, and hopefully for another 5-7 years......Go COLTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol Yeah I forgot he sat out in the final quarters of all of those games. Sorgi stepped in and played.

[Smitto]

mike v was never consisent when it mattered

If he never was then how come he is being considered to be in the HOF?... the kick that tarnished his reputation was the Steelers game and no one can deny that.

[Andy]

Peyton's better! That is all.

[Andy]

Here's an article I wrote last year:

Who’s better: Manning or Brady?

This has been a hot topic for the past 8 or so years, and today it will be examined.

When examining this, you must take into consideration, who has won more Super Bowls, who could do more with less, the stats that each quarterback has amassed in their careers, who would do better if put on the same team, and the team they had won they won the Super Bowl.

First, who has won more Super Bowls? The answer is Tom Brady with three to Peyton Manning’s one. Tom Brady won Super Bowl XXXVI, XXXVIII, and XXXIX. In those years he beat the heavily favoured Rams in the Super Bowl XXXVI, the Panthers in XXXVIII, and the Eagles in XXXIX. Peyton Manning has only won Super XLI, and it was against the Bears who came in the game with the number 1 ranked defense.

Secondly, who could do more with less? This is a very difficult question to ask due to the fact that they’ve done so much for their respected teams. The answer is Peyton Manning. The reason its Manning is because let’s look at the Colts this year, they had the 31^st best rushing attack (2^nd to last), 25^th best run defense in the NFL, and a pretty bad pass defense, and still brought the team on his back to the playoffs. Even though Brady had one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL he still had a 1000 yard rusher in Benjarvis Green-Ellis, and the 11^th best run defense. When Manning one his 1^st and only Super Bowl, he had the worst run defense in the NFL, but the 2^nd pass defense in the NFL. When Brady won his 3 Super Bowls he had a fantastic defense with Tedy Bruschi, Ty Law, Rodney Harrison, Richard Seymour, and Mike Vrabel. The year where Brady was out for the year (2008), and Matt Cassel came in, the Patriots went 11-5, which means that the team around Brady is phenomenal. Without Manning the team loses 7-10 wins a year, and without Brady they lose 4-7 wins a year. The answer is Manning, because over the years Manning has had one of the worst defenses in the NFL, and still managed to take the Colts to 9 straight playoff appearances.

Thirdly, the stats; even though Manning has played 3 years longer his stats on pace to break most of the NFL records, such as career passing yards, career touchdown passes, career completions and career attempts. For the last 5 years, the Colts had to rely on Manning more due to departure of Edgerrin James, therefore making their run offense bad. Manning has more attempts per game than Brady. Brady always had a great running back, whether it was Antowain Smith, Kevin Faulk, Corey Dillon, Laurence Maroney, or Benjarvis Green Ellis, the Patriots always had 1000 yard rushers. Because the Colts rely more on Manning, and he is on pace to break most NFL records, I’ve got to give this round to Manning.

Fourthly, who would be better if put on the same team? Let’s pretend that Manning was on the Patriots. If Peyton Manning was given a top 10 defense, and a 1000 yard rusher, the team would be unstoppable. If Tom Brady went to the Colts, where they have a 20^th or so ranked defense and a 700 yard rusher, the team would not be favorites and would always lose to “Manning and the Patriots.” Manning has much more to carry than Brady, but because these two players are the quarterbacks, they get most of the credit. You never know though, maybe if Brady was on the Colts, the Colts would rely more on Brady, meaning better stats, and the Patriots would not rely that much on Manning, meaning a decrease in stats. Who would do better if they had to switch teams or if they were both on the same team: a very tough decision, but it again goes to Peyton Manning.

Finally, who had the better team when they went won the Super Bowl? For the sake of this round, the 2004 Patriots will be the “prototype team” due to the fact that Brady and the Patriots have won more Super Bowls. When Peyton Manning went to the Super Bowl, he had a 1000 yard rusher in Joseph Addai, the number 2 ranked pass defense, but the worst run defense. When Brady went to the Super Bowl in 04’, he had the 17^th best pass defense, the 6^th best rush defense, and the 7^th best run offense. This means that both teams had pretty much an identical team, perhaps the better offense going to the Patriots, and the defenses were the same. In this case, the Patriots may have had the better team, but the point is, is that they were better than their opposition. The answer is that Brady wins this round.

All in all, Peyton Manning wins this 3-2 because over the past 12 years he had to carry his team more than Brady has, and that is huge when examining something like this. Even though Brady won more Super Bowls, and it is arguably the most important factor when examining quarterbacks, it should be taken into consideration that Brady had the better team when he won the Super Bowl. These are two future hall of famers, who are the two best quarterbacks in the game today.

For news about the Indianapolis Colts and news around the NFL, go to No PROMOTIONAL POSTING ON THE SITE.

This does not necessarily reflect the view(s) of Andrew Aziz.

[shaunzo]

you seem to be forgetting that brady had really great defenses to keep him in games and a clutch kicker

You seem to be forgetting he has neither of those this year, look at his stats. He's a beast. Did you see that last drive he put together yesterday?

[Smitto]

You trollin? 1 more td in a season makes you a better player? And peyton was handed the keys to a ferrari? We were 3-13 the year we drafted him...and Tom has had some of the best defenses in the league(not so much this year) and a clutch kicker...Mike V was far from clutch. When Tom Brady was out for the year, Matt Cassel came in and still got an 11-5 record, obviously the Colts are much worse without Peyton than Patriots were without Brady.

Dude forget the defense... im talking about the offense here, peyton had the pieces way before brady did to put up the numbers he has put up... peyton had faulk, marvin harrison, then james, wayne, stokely... he had the peices to do what he has done.

Brady didnt have HOF players to work with, to get back on the Defense thing Brady was a 6th round draft pick hence they didnt feel the need to put money into him early in his career causing them to focus more on the nucleus of the team which was the defense and they had some great players who they were able to keep for some time by resigning them....

As for the colts Peyton was a 1st round pick meaning you had to surround him with talent which the colts did.... which had a cost and that was filling the defense with less than stellar players and hoping they would work out.....

So basically looking at what each player had to work with and what he started out with tom brady has been more impressive... peyton was expected to be a success and future HOF... not Brady.

[degjohn]

I posted before but got no response. Manning vs. Brady is impossible to decide but here are some interesting stats (with text below from second link). I think this switch to an idea that the Colts would be terrible this year even with Manning are ridiculous. The Colts would be 4-2 with Manning and would win the division.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834507/nfl-peyton-manning-top-two-qbr-seasons

http://www.advancednflstats.com/2011/09/how-many-wins-is-manning-really-worth.html

Since 2000 (as far back as my data goes), Manning played in 176 regular-season games and accumulated a total of 43.0 WPA, for an average of 3.8 WPA per season. This equates to 0.24 WPA per game, which means that Manning (and his passing offense) would give an otherwise perfectly average team a 74% chance of winning a game. In other words, he would take an 8-win team and make them an 11.8-win team.

To put Manning's numbers in perspective, <a href="http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerpage.php?playerid=12-T.Brady&*=QB&season=reg" style="line-height: 17px; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(61, 129, 238); cursor: pointer; " target="_blank">Tom Brady's career WPA/G is 0.16, still extremely good, but not quite up in the Manningsphere. Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger have both averaged 0.14 WPA/G. Kerry Collins, who is likely replacing Manning at least for week 1, has averaged 0.01 WPA/G (since 2000). In 2010, including the playoffs, Aaron Rodgers averaged 0.23 WPA/G.

[KyFan18]

If he never was then how come he is being considered to be in the HOF?... the kick that tarnished his reputation was the Steelers game and no one can deny that.

I find VERY unlikely that Vandy will get into the HoF. If he did, it would be because of his accuracy throughout his career, certainly not because he was clutch. Clutch means that when the game is on the line, you can count on him to come through. That does not describe Mike Vanderjagt.

[KyFan18]

Dude forget the defense... im talking about the offense here, peyton had the pieces way before brady did to put up the numbers he has put up... peyton had faulk, marvin harrison, then james, wayne, stokely... he had the peices to do what he has done.

Brady didnt have HOF players to work with, to get back on the Defense thing Brady was a 6th round draft pick hence they didnt feel the need to put money into him early in his career causing them to focus more on the nucleus of the team which was the defense and they had some great players who they were able to keep for some time by resigning them....

As for the colts Peyton was a 1st round pick meaning you had to surround him with talent which the colts did.... which had a cost and that was filling the defense with less than stellar players and hoping they would work out.....

So basically looking at what each player had to work with and what he started out with tom brady has been more impressive... peyton was expected to be a success and future HOF... not Brady.

So Manning is hamstrung by the fact that he was expected to be good? That's ridiculous.

[FireJimCaldwell]

So Manning is hamstrung by the fact that he was expected to be good? That's ridiculous.

Pretty weak argument. I'm glad my eyes don't see the world with that twisted view.

[coltsfan84]

OK,seriously,how is there any debate at all about Peyton or Tom Baby,er Brady,sorry. Peyton,much like the entire Colts organization,is decent,respectful,and generally good person all the way around.While on the other hand you have the Pats-disrepectful, arrogant,cocky,complete opposite of Colts.

One good example is a game the Pats were in,don't remember who they were playing,Buffalo maybe,where they ran up the score to what was it like 70-0 or something and kept all their starters in the whole game.In this instance,the Colts would at least have enough respect to pull their starters and let some other players have a chance to play.

I think that's why it's such a big deal for Indy NE games,complete opposites.Even if Peyton was having problems,I would pick him every time over Brady simply for his attitude and character.

[Coltsman1788]

Peyton was given the keys to a Ferrari? The Colts went 3-13 the year they drafted him...

If anything, Peyton was given a Pinto and turned it into a Ferrari

LOL maybe not a Ferrari, but Peyton was surrounded with nice offensive weapons when he first got here. He had Marvin Harrison at wideout a stud just waiting to break out. Marshall Faulk in the backfield the best receiving running back in the league at the time; and one of the league's best tight end tandems in Ken Dilger and Marcus Pollard. Peyton set rookie quarterbacking records his first year in the league despite being on a 3-13 team. This wouldn't have been possible if he was surrounded by garbage offensively. Now the defense was certainly a "Pinto" but Peyton had some nice tools to utilize on offense when he got here.

[coltsfan84]

There is no comparison really.I would take Manning any day due to his character and attitude which is also representative of the entire Colts organization.

That's why Indy/NE games are such big deals,the organizations are complete opposites.

[Moose Of Woe]

Lol... ok maybe not a ferarri but he did have a great WR to throw to and an OK RB behind him basically two HOF's right there... although they let faulk walk.. james came in the next year.... my point is by the time peyton was setteled in he had pieces to work with.. where as brady not so much on offense..

Keys to a Ferrari? Teams aren't comprised of just their offensive players. What about Defense? Special teams? Coach?

Brady had a good (soon to be great) defense, great special teams, and the best coach in the game. He had mediocre offensive talent to work with. WOW! POOR TOM!

Manning had great offensive talent, no defense, no special teams, and an OK coach with Dungy. As far as I'm concerned, Brady had and STILL HAS a better team. You can argue Brady did more with less on offense in his early years - but Manning did more with significantly less of a team to have his back/pull their weight.

Manning has had 1/2 of a team for the majority of his career. (Great offense, OK coaching) 1/4 of a team now that there is no coaching staff worth their own salt.

Brady, until the past few years, has always had a complete team. He has the best O in the game to work with, good special teams, a great coach, but a defense which has regressed annually since Spygate. He has won NOTHING without a complete team. That may change, but I don't think he will.

As for this season - if the D does not improve the Pats will get ruined by the Ravens/Packers. Just like the "offense only" Colts couldn't (and still can't)get by well rounded teams in the playoffs year after year. Even with a great coach and much better special teams than us I don't think he can lead them all the way without a D to solidify the team.

The Colts won a Superbowl with the worst special teams in the game. All it took was for the D to actually show up and contribute to winning instead of holding on for dear life. Very few incomplete teams ever win a SB, but we're one of them.

PS: The 1 TD more argument is one of the most laughable things I've ever read. Manning could have had upwards of 55 that season as a MINIMUM if he opted to ram shame and defeat down the throats of each opponent. Not to mention, what, the entire last game of the season?

Edited October 17, 2011 by Moose Of Woe

[WoolMagnet]

Lol... ok maybe not a ferarri but he did have a great WR to throw to and an OK RB behind him basically two HOF's right there... although they let faulk walk.. james came in the next year.... my point is by the time peyton was setteled in he had pieces to work with.. where as brady not so much on offense..

WRs are over-rated, NE knows that. Manning has always had less to work with than Brady. Especially in the defensive, coaching, OL, and "technological" areas.

The debate is DEAD now. You have to be blind to not see that.

Look at Cassel and pre-season. NE could be successful with Ryan Leaf for heaven's sake.

[WoolMagnet]

Dude forget the defense... im talking about the offense here, peyton had the pieces way before brady did to put up the numbers he has put up... peyton had faulk, marvin harrison, then james, wayne, stokely... he had the peices to do what he has done.

Brady didnt have HOF players to work with, to get back on the Defense thing Brady was a 6th round draft pick hence they didnt feel the need to put money into him early in his career causing them to focus more on the nucleus of the team which was the defense and they had some great players who they were able to keep for some time by resigning them....

As for the colts Peyton was a 1st round pick meaning you had to surround him with talent which the colts did.... which had a cost and that was filling the defense with less than stellar players and hoping they would work out.....

So basically looking at what each player had to work with and what he started out with tom brady has been more impressive... peyton was expected to be a success and future HOF... not Brady.

You can't forget the defense. The two are connected.

Heck, Baltimore's defense even allowed Trent Dilfer to win a Super Bowl. trent Dilfer for heaven's sake. And you don't think defense has an effect on QB play? Your argument holds no water.

Big ben would be an average QB without their D.

The fact that Brady, a 6th rd pick was that successful is further proof. Brady wouldn't be who he is today if Manning/Brady were switched on their teams. While Manning would still have been successful at NE. Its very obvious to me. Much of Brady's success was from short passes (sreens) and excellent blocking too. Look at Welker.

Come on, you know better.

Edited October 17, 2011 by WoolMagnet

[Moose Of Woe]

PS: Our offense is a shell of what it once was. We still got back to the Superbowl with poor special teams, coaching, and defense.

The funny thing is if we HAD decent special teams, coaching, or defense (IE: If Freeney were healthy) we would have _very_ likely won that game. Seriously. Any of the three would have done the trick.

THAT is a testament to how good PM is. Getting a terrible team overall with the worst coach and special teams in the game to another Superbowl/knocking on an undefeated season. This on top of already winning one when the D he lugged all the way to the playoffs (AGAIN) decided to show up and do something.

Seriously, how many teams giving up opening kickoff TD's in the SUPERBOWL would you expect to win?

Edited October 18, 2011 by Moose Of Woe

[OLD FAN MAN]

Yea i remember the first time i was in a thread like this i voted for manning but looking back... i just gotta say its brady who is better.. forget his rings because thats a team accomplishments but looking at what he has done in the time he has played is quite amazing... especially for a 6th round pick.

brady is better now because he has an o-line that is a brick wall , he gets 6 to 14 sec to throw almost like practice

[Moose Of Woe]

brady is better now because he has an o-line that is a brick wall , he gets 6 to 14 sec to throw almost like practice

5 seconds or less = sack. The exception being a screen or dump off to Welker for 8675309 YAC.

People use the argument he gets sacked a lot while Manning does not. It's called pocket awareness and getting rid of the ball.

I always hear about Brady's great pocket awareness...but to me taking one step to the right to buy another six seconds while reading the D not once, not twice, but THRICE until someone eventually comes open does not impress me. The guy running for his life on every snap who reads a defense once and releases the ball in 2.5 seconds, CONSTANTLY, does.

This is not to say Brady isn't a great QB. He's the best in the game actively playing - but he's simply not as good as PM. He's GREAT, but Manning is the GREAT-EST to ever take the field. The only QB close to PM IMO is Marino. Manning has the mind, while Marino is the best pure passer in NFL history. Tragic he never had a TEAM (there's that word again) to win a Superbowl with. Manning had the luxury of a lightning strike and got a defense for a brief period.

Manning on the Steelers/Patriots from 2001-2010 = no less than six rings on either team. Dead serious. 3-??? on the Chargers. 2+ on a pantsload of other teams.

Brady/Roethlisberger on the Colts = PLAYOFFS? PLAYOFFS?! They'd just be trying to win a game! .500 team at best every season. Much more likely to do that "well" with Brady than Roethlisberger.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Moose Of Woe

[MAC]

Lol... ok maybe not a ferarri but he did have a great WR to throw to and an OK RB behind him basically two HOF's right there... although they let faulk walk.. james came in the next year.... my point is by the time peyton was setteled in he had pieces to work with.. where as brady not so much on offense..

Right, but they won with defense and he was just a game manager for several years (after only earning the starting job because of injury). Now I respect Brady's ability despite disliking him, but I didn't even think that there was a basis for comparison for about the five six years of his career. To his credit he has continued to improve.

I don't like your line about thinking he's a better player because of the one year TD record. He had the perfect inside option, the perfect outside option, and a darn good second receiver as well. A TD pass to Moss involves heaving the ball as far as you can and watching him go get it. Dante Culpepper will go down in history as an incredibly average QB, but with Moss he was an all-pro. And they ran up the score relentlessly that year while the Colts always tend to ease back on the throttle. I don't see that single season record as meaning much at all. In actuality Marino's record was more impressive considering the rules at the time and what he had to work with.

[sb2001]

I just want to reiterate my point. They are both great! I truly admire TB, hate the Pats, but love to watch Brady play. He's a true artist. REALLY hope Pmoneys back for the Pats game. Then all will be right in this world!

[Smitto]

So Manning is hamstrung by the fact that he was expected to be good? That's ridiculous.

I have no idea what you are talking about... what brady has done is more impressive, with peyton he was expected to be succesful... hence there is the term BUSTS for 1st round picks... But this argument is not winnable so i give up on that.

[DILLIGAFER]

I have no idea what you are talking about... what brady has done is more impressive, with peyton he was expected to be succesful... hence there is the term BUSTS for 1st round picks... But this argument is not winnable so i give up on that.

Brady is no different than any other low darft pick that was coached up.

The fact Manning was the first round draft pick and had all that weight on his shoulders and became the greatest QB to ever play the game is the most impressive.