The Debate Continues........pm Vs Tb

[Gonzo]

Well it is titled as "PM vs TB," in case you didn't notice.

Are you reading responses or are you too fired up to think?

The fact that the Patriots went 11-5 in 2008 without Brady and the fact that the Colts are currently win-less without Manning means ab-so-lute-ly nothing in this discussion.

Different season.

Different rosters.

Different teams.

Different coaches.

If Manning and Brady had the same exact team around them, playing the same schedule, with the same coaching staff, then it's relevant. But how the 2008 Patriots did without Brady versus how the 2011 Colts are doing without Manning is - from virtually every possible angle - a completely meaningless comparison.

Like I said before, you or anyone else could come up with 100 different reasons to say Manning is better. Comparing '08 and this year is just not one of them.

I don't think it's the end of the argument but it's certainly a valid point of discussion. The only significant difference between the Colts this year and last year is no Manning. Winless. What major upgrade did the Patriots make in 08 to mitigate the loss of Brady in a 10 win season? It's almost like the situation was designed in a laboratory to make the comparison.

[amff]

I Love peyton, for christ sakes i have the guys name sketched on my SA80... But peyton was basically handed the keys to a Ferrari while Brady's more like a painter where not much is expected out of him yet he comes out has a stellar career... I didnt wanna admit it when it happened but the fact that the guy surpassed Peytons record for most TD's thrown in a season showed me that he was better than manning.

BUT manning means more to his team than anyone has in the history of sports and theres no denying that, peyton is one of the greatest players to ever play this game, but yes if brady was in peytons shoes and on this team he would have had pretty much the same success.

I still dislike Brady though

I dont' think since he threw more TD's in a season particularly better. And it was only by one. Randy Moss was a HUGE target to throw at. If Peyton would of had a tall deep threat like that there is no doubt in my mind that there would of been more TD'S that season.

[Smitto]

A solid O-line? Every post you have made has been a joke...you are probably a Tom Brady/Patriots fan boy. Peyton's O-line has been average at best and without his quick release there would be a ton more sacks/fumbles. It is obvious to me more than ever than Peyton is the greatest of all time. Matt Cassel is far from the reason that the Patriots went 11-5 with him. Tom Brady is a GREAT system player, one of the best. He's accurate, consistent, and clutch but that's also because of his team around him. He's had an amazing O-line his whole career with a great defense. Peyton has been the Colts, we built a team around him and it's obvious. We have a small/fast defense while brady had a good strong defense. The patriots have one of the best formulas for a team and once Brady retires you will see that they are much more than just a brady team. Now the Colts on the other hand are Peyton Manning's team. No player tears apart a defense like Peyton does nor knows/studies defenses more. If you honestly think Brady is the best QB ever because of his rings/single-season TD record(which is a single TD better than Peyton had) you aren't looking at the right statistics. If that's all that matters why isn't Montana the best ever in your opinion?

Yes im a Pats fan.................................................... :smack: dont say that smh...... im not gonna continue this argument, cause this is getting nowhere and is pointless... thats like arguing who is the best running back walter payton or emmitt smith.... the way i see it is Brady is the better QB... even in peytons time in tennesse he wasnt able to win the big game.. peyton is the greatest REGULAR season QB ever but all around? thats Brady.

[Smitto]

Look I'm pretty sure Smitto is either a closet Pats fan or trolling, all your points have been debunked.

Manning and Brady are both great, the two best to ever play IMO. I wouldn't put either ahead of the other right now as they are still playing out their careers. Let them play.

Maybe a mod can close this thread as we have had 2959025902533 Brady/Manning threads dating back to 2007 on the old forums (when I joined)

You think whatever you want mate, i hate the patriots and i aint got time to be "trolling" anything.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Pats fan or member of the Anti-Manning group, either way it's distorted view and dead wrong on multiple points.

[JoKeR]

At the beginning of their careers Brady had a much better all round team. Manning in no shape or form was handed keys to a Ferrari. Infact the Colts were in a dark void referred to by some as "rebuilding years". When Manning was drafted the team finally got a blue print and a engine for a future car.

[Tsarquise]

This thread is THE most silly Manning vs Brady thread i have seen in my life!! The Brady lover that's supposed to be a colts fan and their arguments is just pure funny.

[GoGoColts]

At the beginning of their careers Brady had a much better all round team. Manning in no shape or form was handed keys to a Ferrari. Infact the Colts were in a dark void referred to by some as "rebuilding years". When Manning was drafted the team finally got a blue print and a engine for a future car.

That's for sure. The Pats had some bad seasons for a few years, but honestly, Bill Parcels laid a pretty good foundation with that team. Bellichick was able to come in and pick right up with his style of players mostly in place. Most of the core Patriots were on the team the year that Brady started.

http://www.pro-footb...ms/nwe/2001.htm

Edited October 19, 2011 by GoGoColts

[GoGoColts]

Yes im a Pats fan.................................................... :smack: dont say that smh...... im not gonna continue this argument, cause this is getting nowhere and is pointless... thats like arguing who is the best running back walter payton or emmitt smith.... the way i see it is Brady is the better QB... even in peytons time in tennesse he wasnt able to win the big game.. peyton is the greatest REGULAR season QB ever but all around? thats Brady.

The fact that you are on this board makes it pretty clear that Peyton is better. You are so envious and jealous that you have to lay on a Colts board to make sure that threads like this don't go unchecked. LOL

[Fx Stryker]

mike v was never consisent when it mattered

Drunk fool he was. My dad always said we will lose if the game came into Mike's hands, or foot for that matter. He always though Vandy bet against us so he could cash in. rotfl I wouldn't be surprised for how many time he blew it.

[ViriLudant]

These past 6 games have really made me appreciate the greatness of Manning. Does anyone really think Brady could have done what Manning has done all these years?

Yes.

Without question. Brady has always done well no matter the roster.

[ViriLudant]

you seem to be forgetting that brady had really great defenses to keep him in games and a clutch kicker. tow things peyton never had in a consistent basis

Yeah, Peyton didn't benefit from Adam Vinatieri in 2006.

/sarcasm off

[ViriLudant]

You trollin? 1 more td in a season makes you a better player? And peyton was handed the keys to a ferrari? We were 3-13 the year we drafted him...and Tom has had some of the best defenses in the league(not so much this year) and a clutch kicker...Mike V was far from clutch. When Tom Brady was out for the year, Matt Cassel came in and still got an 11-5 record, obviously the Colts are much worse without Peyton than Patriots were without Brady.

Brady hasn't had a good defense since '06, and even then it was old and falling apart.

Tell me, in 2006 when the Colts FINALLY beat the Patriots in a meaningful game, who were Brady's weapons on offense?

[GoGoColts]

Yeah, Peyton didn't benefit from Adam Vinatieri in 2006.

/sarcasm off

The key word that seems to elude you is the term consistent. Here is a dictionary definition for you.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/consistent

[MAC]

The fact that you are on this board makes it pretty clear that Peyton is better. You are so envious and jealous that you have to lay on a Colts board to make sure that threads like this don't go unchecked. LOL

What the heck are you talking about? Smitto is a die-hard Colts fan with almost 1400 posts to demonstrate same that you could have looked at before making such an absurd accusation. One of the leading posters on the board.

The fact that you don't know that after 252 posts of your own is a bit ridiculous.

[ViriLudant]

There is no comparison really.I would take Manning any day due to his character and attitude which is also representative of the entire Colts organization.

That's why Indy/NE games are such big deals,the organizations are complete opposites.

Right, that's why Jeff Saturday credits Bob Kraft for saving the NFL season. Meanwhile, Irsay Tweets like an * all day long.

Manning's character? The guy KNOWS that his neck is not healthy, and yet he holds out for the largest contract in NFL history. Yep, sounds like a team player to me.

[ViriLudant]

Brady is no different than any other low darft pick that was coached up.

The fact Manning was the first round draft pick and had all that weight on his shoulders and became the greatest QB to ever play the game is the most impressive.

This is perhaps the dumbest post I've ever read. Anywhere.

Yeah, Brady is no better than any other QB.

Dear God, are you serious?

[ViriLudant]

I will leave this post and argument with this thought. Brady himself called Manning the greatest. You can argue all you want that he was just being nice. But I'm here to tell you, it was much more than that.

And NFL coaches have voted on taking Brady over Peyton.

NFL players have said that Brady is better than Peyton.

Brady was just being polite.

[GoGoColts]

What the heck are you talking about? Smitto is a die-hard Colts fan with almost 1400 posts to demonstrate same that you could have looked at before making such an absurd accusation. One of the leading posters on the board.

The fact that you don't know that after 252 posts of your own is a bit ridiculous.

Yes im a Pats fan.................................................... :smack: dont say that smh...... im not gonna continue this argument, cause this is getting nowhere and is pointless... thats like arguing who is the best running back walter payton or emmitt smith.... the way i see it is Brady is the better QB... even in peytons time in tennesse he wasnt able to win the big game.. peyton is the greatest REGULAR season QB ever but all around? thats Brady.

[Andy]

Brady hasn't had a good defense since '06, and even then it was old and falling apart.

Tell me, in 2006 when the Colts FINALLY beat the Patriots in a meaningful game, who were Brady's weapons on offense?

The Patriots are also 2-3 since 2006, and not won a playoff game since the Chargers AFC Championship game in 07. You guys need a great defense to succeed, and the Colts have made it to the finals with a mediocre one. BTW, with a good defense, they're 12-2 in the Brady era.

Now I admit Manning had more weapons on offense, but offense scores point and DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS (some exceptions happen). In that game the defense got a pick 6, and Gostkowski kicked 2 field goals, plus Corey Dillon had 1 touchdown and Mankins had that fumble recovery....Brady only threw 1 TD pass. Great quarterbacks do good things even with mediocre players. You also have to consider that PM had an aging Marvin Harrison, and an injured Dallas Clark. Manning has always done it with mediocre players... especially recently, and Brady has always had that coach and a great defense. This year, if he could lead them far into the playoffs with that team, it'll show me something.

[GoGoColts]

And NFL coaches have voted on taking Brady over Peyton.

NFL players have said that Brady is better than Peyton.

Brady was just being polite.

Four MVPs, Peyton being voted the best in other years tell a different story.

[MAC]

Right, that's why Jeff Saturday credits Bob Kraft for saving the NFL season. Meanwhile, Irsay Tweets like an * all day long.

Manning's character? The guy KNOWS that his neck is not healthy, and yet he holds out for the largest contract in NFL history. Yep, sounds like a team player to me.

Most Pats fans on here are famously well behaved, but this comment is inaccurate and insulting to the point of BAITING people to start WWIII. What is the point exactly? I understand that you want to defend Brady, but everybody knows that the argument is beaten to death and ultimately pointless. What is the point coming to a Colts board to take up the issue. I have no interest in going to a Patriots board to debate the issue - it would just make me nuts - just like you are trying to do.

[ViriLudant]

The Patriots are also 2-3 since 2006, and not won a playoff game since the Chargers AFC Championship game in 07. You guys need a great defense to succeed, and the Colts have made it to the finals with a mediocre one. BTW, with a good defense, they're 12-2 in the Brady era.

Now I admit Manning had more weapons on offense, but offense scores point and DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS (some exceptions happen). In that game the defense got a pick 6, and Gostkowski kicked 2 field goals, plus Corey Dillon had 1 touchdown and Mankins had that fumble recovery....Brady only threw 1 TD pass. Great quarterbacks do good things even with mediocre players. You also have to consider that PM had an aging Marvin Harrison, and an injured Dallas Clark. Manning has always done it with mediocre players... especially recently, and Brady has always had that coach and a great defense. This year, if he could lead them far into the playoffs with that team, it'll show me something.

Uh, you DO recall that the mediocre Patriots' defense helped the Patriots make it to the SB in '07, correct?

By the way, does BB play a position? He doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the offense, you guys DO know that, correct?

Brady doesn't practice with BB; he has a QB coach and he works with O'Brien, the OC. BB focuses on the defense.

Oh, but I forgot, BB does everything on the team.

/sarcasm off.

[ViriLudant]

Four MVPs, Peyton being voted the best in other years tell a different story.

Wow.

Nothing you posted changes my facts.

[MAC]

You think whatever you want mate, i hate the patriots and i aint got time to be "trolling" anything.

[Andy]

Uh, you DO recall that the mediocre Patriots' defense helped the Patriots make it to the SB in '07, correct?

By the way, does BB play a position? He doesn't have ANYTHING to do with the offense, you guys DO know that, correct?

Brady doesn't practice with BB; he has a QB coach and he works with O'Brien, the OC. BB focuses on the defense.

Oh, but I forgot, BB does everything on the team.

/sarcasm off.

Really? So you consider the 3rd best D in total yards, 6th best in pass defense and 10th best in rush defense a mediocre defense... do your research buddy... they had a good D that year with Bruschi Vrabel Seymour Harrison, Wilfork... all those guys.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that BB doesn't "mold" the Pats. He takes trouble makers like Hernandez, Moss, Meriweather, and many other guys and turn them into great players. He doesn't just focus on the defense, he focuses on the offense. A head coach doesn't mainly work on one thing, and in 2005 and 2009 BB stated he splits time evenly with the offense and the defense. BB is more important to your team than Brady. Yeah I said it, he is, that tema was nothing before him and he turned it into a great franchise. He calls the plays.... he chooses who to put in on offense, he prepares with the OC and Brady b4 each game. I may not be a Pats fan, but I know a bit about your team and BB is the best coach in the NFL, he is your team. Look at the impact Romeo Crennel left when he went to Cleveland, imagine how big BB's would be.

[GoGoColts]

Wow.

Nothing you posted changes my facts.

The fact isn't the problem. It's your belief that Brady having a couple of good seasons, justifies his overall body of average work.

Peyton played hurt all last two years so feeble minded fools think that is who Peyton is.

Edited October 19, 2011 by GoGoColts

[Andy]

Sorry those were the stats to 07, the Pats were 6th in total yards, 12 in pass defense, and 5th in rush defense... pretty much as good as the 07 Pats, and much better than mediocre.

[GoGoColts]

Smitto is the troll that I thought he was then.

[DILLIGAFER]

This is perhaps the dumbest post I've ever read. Anywhere.

Yeah, Brady is no better than any other QB.

Dear God, are you serious?

Mod Edit. I said at no point he wasn't better than any other qb. Your interpreting what i said in some weird distortion that only makes sense to you. You troll on a colts site for god sakes spinning your love for Brady and the patriots. We get it, you love brady. Well, its a colts forum, and we love Manning. I personally can't stand Brady. Its my OPINION.

Edited for personal attack

[Coltssouth]

Right, that's why Jeff Saturday credits Bob Kraft for saving the NFL season. Meanwhile, Irsay Tweets like an * all day long.

Manning's character? The guy KNOWS that his neck is not healthy, and yet he holds out for the largest contract in NFL history. Yep, sounds like a team player to me.

Wow. Was that necessary? Easy on the hatin' man.

[ViriLudant]

The fact isn't the problem. It's your belief that Brady having a couple of good seasons, justifies his overall body of average work.

Peyton played hurt all last two years so feeble minded fools think that is who Peyton is.

Peyton played hurt during the last two years?

Two years ago he started slowly because of the infected bursa sack. He was fine throughout the majority of the season.

Brady has played through injuries during multiple seasons, including chronic shoulder issues that required surgeries.

Last season Brady played with a fractured foot from November 10th to the end of the season.

And know what he did during that time?

Set the NFL record for passes without an INT, and for the best TD:INT ratio of all time.

Oh, but he's just a system QB.

(Never mind that Peyton played in Moore's system his entire career.)

[ViriLudant]

The fact isn't the problem. It's your belief that Brady having a couple of good seasons, justifies his overall body of average work.

Peyton played hurt all last two years so feeble minded fools think that is who Peyton is.

Yet NFL coaches and player still picked Brady over Peyton.

[GoGoColts]

Peyton played hurt during the last two years?

Two years ago he started slowly because of the infected bursa sack. He was fine throughout the majority of the season.

Brady has played through injuries during multiple seasons, including chronic shoulder issues that required surgeries.

Last season Brady played with a fractured foot from November 10th to the end of the season.

And know what he did during that time?

Set the NFL record for passes without an INT, and for the best TD:INT ratio of all time.

Oh, but he's just a system QB.

(Never mind that Peyton played in Moore's system his entire career.)

The difference is that blaming injuries would be the exception in Peyton's career. Blaming injuries for Brady's career would be to justify a career of inaccurate deep passing.

[GoGoColts]

Yet NFL coaches and player still picked Brady over Peyton.

You leave in a dream world where one year of exceptions proves the rule. LOL

[DILLIGAFER]

Right, that's why Jeff Saturday credits Bob Kraft for saving the NFL season. Meanwhile, Irsay Tweets like an * all day long.

Manning's character? The guy KNOWS that his neck is not healthy, and yet he holds out for the largest contract in NFL history. Yep, sounds like a team player to me.

Man, you are sinking and sinking fast. TROLL!

[Andy]

Im still waiting for my reply ViriLudant... can't answer...

[ViriLudant]

The difference is that blaming injuries would be the exception in Peyton's career. Blaming injuries for Brady's career would be to justify a career of inaccurate deep passing.

Stats prove that Brady is a better deep passer than Peyton.

Next weak response?

By the way, Brady has the better TD:INT ratio, and throws fewer INTs per pass attempt.

[ViriLudant]

You leave in a dream world where one year of exceptions proves the rule. LOL

That's funny.

The NFL coaches poll was after '07.

The NFL players poll was after '10.

Next?

[GoGoColts]

That's funny.

The NFL coaches poll was after '07.

The NFL players poll was after '10.

Next?

Exceptions to the rule. Peyton won those essentially every other year. And, Brady said himself that Peyton was better. Charlie Weiss even got on Mike and Mike when was at Notre Dame and said that Peyton would be his pick . Who would know better than Charlie?

Edited October 19, 2011 by GoGoColts