Colts Players Respond To "suck For Luck"

[Smitto]

Now if only that thought from that article would echo to some of the fans out there... forget andrew luck, you dont need an andrew luck i mean look at painter the guy is doing pretty well... Any young QB that comes into indy and has time to learn this offense will be successful... the colts just need to worry about their defense.

[CR91]

Now if only that thought from that article would echo to some of the fans out there... forget andrew luck, you dont need an andrew luck i mean look at painter the guy is doing pretty well... Any young QB that comes into indy and has time to learn this offense will be successful... the colts just need to worry about their defense.

you honestly think curtis painter can win us a super bowl

[ruksak]

The Manning year was very different in that there were very few quality QB prospects in that draft. In fact if I remember right, the only other QB from that draft that amounted to anything was Matt Hasselbeck. I believe there were 8 QB's drafted in that entire draft whereas in the 2012 draft I think there will be 4-6 drafted in the first 2 rounds alone. That's been my whole point, Luck is not the only option to bring in a QB to groom for the future.

My only response is that typically there is a good reason why a QB is projected as a top 10. Ryan, Stafford and Bradford are good examples. Imagine the transition from Manning to any of those guys. Although one could point toward many high end QB prospects that didn't pan out, it seems Luck is all but guaranteed to match or exceed the aforementioned QB's caliber.

Although, to your point, our team is in need of many players to form a whole team. Do we really think it wise to pass on a Stafford/Bradford/Ryan to attempt to garner 3-4 potentially good players?

hmmmm.....

[Jaric]

If we have the option to secure the QB position for the next 10-15 years after Manning retires, we'd be fools not to take it.

Drafting a DB first overall or even top 5 would be a mistake of epic levels.

[Smitto]

you honestly think curtis painter can win us a super bowl

Did you see me type that?? no one person can win a superbowl it takes a good TEAM, if the colts had a good defense and painter kept getting better.. they would in my mind no doubt make it to the playoffs.. right now thats obviously not going to happen with all the injuries and shotty defense but none the less painter has been moving the offense which is what you want your QB to do.

[Jason_]

My only response is that typically there is a good reason why a QB is projected as a top 10. Ryan, Stafford and Bradford are good examples. Imagine the transition from Manning to any of those guys. Although one could point toward many high end QB prospects that didn't pan out, it seems Luck is all but guaranteed to match or exceed the aforementioned QB's caliber.

Although, to your point, our team is in need of many players to form a whole team. Do we really think it wise to pass on a Stafford/Bradford/Ryan to attempt to garner 3-4 potentially good players?

hmmmm.....

ahh...aha...see, I have MUCH less issue with taking a QB in the top 10 than #1 overall. We could still trade down once, acquire several additional picks plus an additional first round pick for next year and still be high enough to take a top 10 overall QB in either Landry Jones or Matt Barkley. If that's the route you want to go I have no problem with it because really it's the best of both worlds...trade back to get extra picks but still get one of the top 3 QB's in the draft. I am very high on Nick Foles but at most he may move up to a late first round pick or early second round pick. So I think ultimately it comes down to Manning's health. If he can return even 2-3 years then I have absolutely no problem making multiple trade downs and take my chances with Foles. However if 1 year is all we can expect back out of Manning then trade down once and still get one of the top 3 QB's.

[Exodus]

At this point, i would be SHOCKED if we took Luck. In two games, i think Curtis has shown he is not only a capable backup, but also has potential to be a starter! In the past two games, its obvious QB is not why we are 0-5 (it was when Kerry was the starter). Painter will be "the guy" for the rest of the season and maybe even beyond. But the Colts would be the dumbest team in the league if they take luck at this point.

One more point, i bet the Colts front office feels really dumb now for cutting Tryon and Harris.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Exodus

[pacolts56]

If the opportunity is there you don't pass on a possible franchise QB. If he has to sit for a while then so be it. We have all seen first hand how big a difference one good QB can make in the win/loss column. If the Colts don't start thinking about our future QB situation now when Peyton is done(whenever that may be?) we could see many more seasons like this one.

And Irsay has seen what it does for a franchise balance sheet.

Something Luck detractors need to keep in mind....whether they want the kid or not.

Unless Polian and the scouting staff tell Irsay..."hey boss, we think the kid has a high probability of being a bust"....Irsay may very well trust the franchise QB formula that put the Colts back on the map in the first place.

The #1 overall pick is a huge football decision for sure....but it has a huge business component to it as well.

[Larry Horseman]

I would assume that if they swapped Powers and Lacey then it would have been Breaston who would have started torching us instead of Bowe. However, like you I also wondered why they didn't at least give it a shot. You never know, based on differences in size, speed, play style etc Lacey may have matched up better on Breaston than Bowe. I would have at least tried it out.

THANK YOU....I love the article and I'm adding it to my signature. I could not agree more with everything said in the article. My favorite quote from the article:

Thanks! I pretty much agree with everything in the article too. However, I also understand why people think we should draft Luck. If we have the #1 draft pick its a risk either way. We are either rolling the dice to 1) draft Manning's successor or 2) trade the pick to infuse the roster with enough young talent to win a couple of SBs in PM's final years.

I see both sides of the argument, but I tend to lean towards trying to ride PM out for a couple more SBs before he retires.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Larry Horseman

[TCColtsFan]

Back in 2006, every analyst thought it was a no-brainer for Houston to pick Vince Young number one overall. The media, scouts, execs and fans all wanted it. Instead they chose to take Williams instead. Houston's defense has been great because of Williams and Tennessee has struggled through the Young years and he is now a backup with another team. What if Houston had traded the pick to Tennessee and picked up Tennessee's second round pick the the following year's first round pick? They would have gotten Mario plus 2 additional high picks to go along with him. As good as Houston is now, they could have been better. The only sure thing in the draft is that the more selections you have, the better probability of getting a star player. The first round is about a 50/50 shot at picking a player that will stick and even the magnificent Luck has not been proven in the NFL.

[Dtman513]

When I read this article I completely agreed with Reggie and Robert....We still have 11 games left and it's crap to be talking about drafting Andrew Luck....

Let's root for our team instead of rooting for Andrew Luck

[theking213]

Back in 2006, every analyst thought it was a no-brainer for Houston to pick Vince Young number one overall. The media, scouts, execs and fans all wanted it. Instead they chose to take Williams instead. Houston's defense has been great because of Williams and Tennessee has struggled through the Young years and he is now a backup with another team. What if Houston had traded the pick to Tennessee and picked up Tennessee's second round pick the the following year's first round pick? They would have gotten Mario plus 2 additional high picks to go along with him. As good as Houston is now, they could have been better. The only sure thing in the draft is that the more selections you have, the better probability of getting a star player. The first round is about a 50/50 shot at picking a player that will stick and even the magnificent Luck has not been proven in the NFL.

Bad comparison.

Vince Young is a 2 time Pro-Bowler and led the Titans to 8 wins in his rookie year. When he was the full time starter in 2007 he was 9-5.

and brought an 0-6 team out of the dungeon in 2009

If he didn't have injury, depression and mental problems he would be a 5 time pro-bowler looking to lead the Titans back to the playoffs

He also looks like R. Kelly...so that doesn't help him

Luck has a better skill set and none of the depression and mental issues Young has.

Edited October 10, 2011 by theking213

[oldunclemark]

If the opportunity is there you don't pass on a possible franchise QB. If he has to sit for a while then so be it. We have all seen first hand how big a difference one good QB can make in the win/loss column. If the Colts don't start thinking about our future QB situation now when Peyton is done(whenever that may be?) we could see many more seasons like this one.

If he has to sit for awhile..so be it???

What about what our team needs?. A top corner..?

...a top tackle?

You forget about that and draft a guy who's going to sit for 4 seasons???

Isnt that insane?

[oldunclemark]

And Irsay has seen what it does for a franchise balance sheet.

Something Luck detractors need to keep in mind....whether they want the kid or not.

Unless Polian and the scouting staff tell Irsay..."hey boss, we think the kid has a high probability of being a bust"....Irsay may very well trust the franchise QB formula that put the Colts back on the map in the first place.

The #1 overall pick is a huge football decision for sure....but it has a huge business component to it as well.

Nonsense...you dont draft a guy to sit 4 years...

Believe me..there will be other QBs come along.

To draft a gy you cannot play means you arent serious about winning anything in 2012 or 2103.

We have a half dozen needs before our 2016 QB

[oldunclemark]

Well the players can claim to be upset about what some fans are saying but their actions will speak louder than words. They say they have too much pride to "suck for Luck" but their on the field play begs to differ. Right now this team does not have to try to suck for anyone because the sucking is occurring naturally.

An overstatement after the last 3 weeks??? Did they really suck the last 3 weeks...?

Did they really play like they didnt care?

[Coltsman1788]

I completely agree, but they did it with a great team around the quarterback. Why did NE win 11 games when Brady went down? It was not because of Cassell, it was because they had a great team around Brady. If we draft Luck in this draft with or without Manning coming back, he better be as good as Manning because that is the only way he will win with this team.

I don't think we are too in love with Manning being the reason not to take Luck. I think we are more realistic in seeing this is a horrible team and one player (even the greatest of all time) can't win championships with it so why do we want to draft another guy to try. Improve the team, then worry about a quarterback.

But if Luck is here for 12 or more years that is plenty of time for the Colts to reinvent themselves on defense and to model a good team around him. Luck isn't about right now...its a move for the future of this franchise. We've got Peyton for the here and now and the rest of our draft picks should go towards putting more talent around him. These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive options.

[Coltsman1788]

An overstatement after the last 3 weeks??? Did they really suck the last 3 weeks...?

Did they really play like they didnt care?

It helps to read through the thread before you post. I already clarified to Pizza Guy what I was saying there. I am not saying they don't care. Just that they aren't that good particularly on defense.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Coltsman1788

[Moose Of Woe]

Reggie says we have twelve games left? Nope! Only eleven more. (Thank god)

[Malakai432]

We could select Luck and still have opportunity to select some of the best CB's in next years draft.

I don't think many earthlings can interpret that there will be several other good players in the draft, even if the Colts draft Luck. Stupid inferior humans and their puny little minds can't fathom what us aliens think. That's why we will take earth over soon, once we have enough coffee. 

[Peterk2011]

Bad comparison.

Vince Young is a 2 time Pro-Bowler and led the Titans to 8 wins in his rookie year. When he was the full time starter in 2007 he was 9-5.

and brought an 0-6 team out of the dungeon in 2009

If he didn't have injury, depression and mental problems he would be a 5 time pro-bowler looking to lead the Titans back to the playoffs

He also looks like R. Kelly...so that doesn't help him

Luck has a better skill set and none of the depression and mental issues Young has.

Too much "if"-s. ;)

The fact is, back in 2006 Young was a no brainer to pass on despite mental issues, and turned to be a bad pick. No matter for what reason.

Picking Luck is as big risk as not picking him, because of his draft value. He worths a s*load of draft picks, so no matter who will pick him, he should better become a HOF caliber, or he will not worth his price. There is absolutely no guarantee that he will be that good. So I'm in the "trade down" bandwagon. If Manning gets back, then trading down and picking multiple times holds lower risk than putting everything on one guy (who we will not be able to use for 3-4 years). Of course, if Manning's carreer is over, we have no other option than taking the bigger risk...

[Peterk2011]

But if Luck is here for 12 or more years that is plenty of time for the Colts to reinvent themselves on defense and to model a good team around him. Luck isn't about right now...its a move for the future of this franchise. We've got Peyton for the here and now and the rest of our draft picks should go towards putting more talent around him. These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive options.

And what if we take Luck, and he will injure himself the next season? What if he will become a Carlson Palmer? You cannot say that if we take Luck then we're done on QB position for a decade. Luck is as much of a risk as Peyton's injury.

[JoKeR]

3 possibilities

If it turns out Manning is done, yeah you absolutely take Luck and only keep Painter as the franchise backup.

If its still a unknown come draft day, draft Luck and sit on him. He will retain trade value.

If it turns out Manning is 100% recovered, trade for draft picks.

[TCColtsFan]

But if Luck is here for 12 or more years that is plenty of time for the Colts to reinvent themselves on defense and to model a good team around him. Luck isn't about right now...its a move for the future of this franchise. We've got Peyton for the here and now and the rest of our draft picks should go towards putting more talent around him. These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive options.

If it were that easy to rebuild a team with picks in the late part of each round, why are we one of the worst teams in the league? We have been picking late for years and what do we have to show for it. When Manning is back next year we will be picking late again and you want to rebuild with late rounders and UDFA? You could trade that pick and get at least 4 picks in the first two rounds in 2012 and 2013 with other later picks as well. You could rebuild a team with that.

If you are dead set on getting Luck, you have to trade Manning and start over. The Colts have been terrible at finding great players in late round1 and 2.

Bad comparison.

Vince Young is a 2 time Pro-Bowler and led the Titans to 8 wins in his rookie year. When he was the full time starter in 2007 he was 9-5.

and brought an 0-6 team out of the dungeon in 2009

If he didn't have injury, depression and mental problems he would be a 5 time pro-bowler looking to lead the Titans back to the playoffs

He also looks like R. Kelly...so that doesn't help him

Luck has a better skill set and none of the depression and mental issues Young has.

I don't remember hearing about Young's mental issues until after he started being doubted as an NFL QB. Before that, his world was great. What about Pitcock? Who knew he was going to burn out his first year for us? You can't use that as an excuse because we don't know how any rookie will react when they get to the pros. To be honest, I think Young rode his rep from college into the pro bowl. He was not more impressive then Manning, Brady, Rothlessberger, Rivers or Cutler when he has playing.

Edited October 10, 2011 by TCColtsFan

[presto123]

If he has to sit for awhile..so be it???

What about what our team needs?. A top corner..?

...a top tackle?

You forget about that and draft a guy who's going to sit for 4 seasons???

Isnt that insane?

Are you a fortune teller? For all we know Manning might only have one year left to play or if he plays four he may never be the same Manning. We don't know anything at this point. Heck as far as we know Luck could end up the starter winning the job over a post surgery Manning. Unless we know for a fact that Manning will be 100 percent as good as he was you take Luck if you have the first pick.

[ruksak]

Are you a fortune teller? For all we know Manning might only have one year left to play or if he plays four he may never be the same Manning. We don't know anything at this point. Heck as far as we know Luck could end up the starter winning the job over a post surgery Manning. Unless we know for a fact that Manning will be 100 percent as good as he was you take Luck if you have the first pick.

No way thats ever gonna happen.

However, it is my opinion that further time out from injury is in Manning's future. Painter could pull us through if, IF, we take care of our defensive woes. If we draft Luck, I would imagine it's probable he's gonna get more time than just preseason.

[pacolts56]

Nonsense...you dont draft a guy to sit 4 years...

Believe me..there will be other QBs come along.

To draft a gy you cannot play means you arent serious about winning anything in 2012 or 2103.

We have a half dozen needs before our 2016 QB

Again....and for the 1000th time....drafting Andrew Luck should have factored into it Peyton's expected time left in the game of football. I've never contended otherwise.

It simply cannot be assumed that Peyton Manning has 100% certainty of playing 4-5 more seasons, which is your premise, and by your reasoning also recklessly assumes....

1. that the 4-5 other prospects we would theoretically trade the #1 pick down for would be "NFL-ready" and contribute immediately and meaningfully, which history shows is almost never the case. Hughes (still waiting)....Gonzo (still waiting)....Brown (still waiting).....Ugoh (crash and burn)....Moala (jury is out)

2. and fails miserably to factor in that by the time freshly drafted, wet-behind-the-ears prospects can be reasonably expected to contribute, that 2 more seasons of Manning's career will have expired....yet you're operating on the premise that 4-5 new prospects will seemingly transform the Colts back into Super Bowl contenders.

Do you actually have faith that THIS coaching staff can develop rookies into fast contributors at those other need positions...DT/CB/S/OG, without a player like Peyton Manning at their respective positions there to mentor them??

I'm all for building a solid 53 man roster...but the reality is that it won't happen overnight.

And the very cold reality, based on Peyton's final medical outcome, may be that the Colts are in a close to a full rebuilding mode as we speak...based on age at key positions and lack of talent at others.

If Irsay and Polian see it that way...then the football AND business considerations of drafting Andrew Luck make even more sense, considering he could be a franchise NFL QB that can be had at half the price paid for guys like Matthew Stafford and Sam Bradford. Thus....leaving cap space to help build that solid 53 man roster we all want.

[Balzer40]

Again....and for the 1000th time....drafting Andrew Luck should have factored into it Peyton's expected time left in the game of football. I've never contended otherwise.

It simply cannot be assumed that Peyton Manning has 100% certainty of playing 4-5 more seasons, which is your premise, and by your reasoning also recklessly assumes....

1. that the 4-5 other prospects we would theoretically trade the #1 pick down for would be "NFL-ready" and contribute immediately and meaningfully, which history shows is almost never the case. Hughes (still waiting)....Gonzo (still waiting)....Brown (still waiting).....Ugoh (crash and burn)....Moala (jury is out)

2. and fails miserably to factor in that by the time freshly drafted, wet-behind-the-ears prospects can be reasonably expected to contribute, that 2 more seasons of Manning's career will have expired....yet you're operating on the premise that 4-5 new prospects will seemingly transform the Colts back into Super Bowl contenders.

Do you actually have faith that THIS coaching staff can develop rookies into fast contributors at those other need positions...DT/CB/S/OG, without a player like Peyton Manning at their respective positions there to mentor them??

I'm all for building a solid 53 man roster...but the reality is that it won't happen overnight.

And the very cold reality, based on Peyton's final medical outcome, may be that the Colts are in a close to a full rebuilding mode as we speak...based on age at key positions and lack of talent at others.

If Irsay and Polian see it that way...then the football AND business considerations of drafting Andrew Luck make even more sense, considering he could be a franchise NFL QB that can be had at half the price paid for guys like Matthew Stafford and Sam Bradford. Thus....leaving cap space to help build that solid 53 man roster we all want.

Good post and a +1 for you. Some of these "anti-Luck" people here are just going to repeat the same nonsense over and over just to try and support their ridiculous argument. I would guarantee if we have the 1st pick in the draft and we pass on Luck, then Manning gets injured again next season and decides to retire, These very exact same anti Luck people will be throwing a fit because we passed on the best QB prospect to come out of college in yrs.. Their basic argument is we'll get more high picks then they act as if it's a guarantee that every single one of these extra picks will turn out to be pro bowlers within a yr. or 2 and our team will be dominant. And of course, this also assumes Manning is an indestructable robot that will automatically play at last yrs. level for the next 5 yrs.. I don't know about you but thats an awful lot of ifs and buts IMO.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Balzer40

[Coltssouth]

I have a hard time believing Peyton will not play for the next three or four years.

Really . . . where is this coming from? He expects to be playing by December and you guys have him out for the rest of his career?

Of course it could happen . . . but I don't see it being likely.

[pacolts56]

I have a hard time believing Peyton will not play for the next three or four years.

Really . . . where is this coming from? He expects to be playing by December and you guys have him out for the rest of his career?

Of course it could happen . . . but I don't see it being likely.

I'm not sure who's post your addressing, but from day one of all this Andrew Luck discussion I have contended that he should be drafted if Manning's career window...after all the available medical conclusions have been made....is 2 full seasons or less.

If Peyton gets a clean bill of health and concludes that he has every intention of fulfilling his contract....and team owner Jim Irsay is comfortable with that....then another approach would probably be considered on Draft Day.

ON A SIDE NOTE: Since you are a MOD....is there any way these Andrew Luck threads can be merged into 2 threads....1 for and 1 against?

We've seen "Ben Ijalana knee injury" and "Pat Angerer" threads turned into Andrew Luck arguments.

Please merge and pin a couple for the "All-Luck All The Time" people....at least until we (hopefully) win 4-5 games and the topic goes away.

Just a suggestion.

[theking213]

Not trying to be rude but which 4-5 games do you see us winning. Our next 4 games are

@ Cincinnati

@ New Orleans

@ Tennessee

Atlanta

So these Luck and draft related threads are going to continue for at least another month because we are in serious contention for the #1 pick. (I absolutely hate typing that and never thought I would ever type those words in the Manning era)

[Coltssouth]

I was not addressing anyone in particular, but I have seen a lot of posts saying Peyton is done. My opinion is that he is not.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will look at the post merging.

[pacolts56]

Not trying to be rude but which 4-5 games do you see us winning. Our next 4 games are

@ Cincinnati

@ New Orleans

@ Tennessee

Atlanta

So these Luck and draft related threads are going to continue for at least another month because we are in serious contention for the #1 pick. (I absolutely hate typing that and never thought I would ever type those words in the Manning era)

LOL....yes, I'm afraid you're 100% right.

That's why I put hopefully....but if the Bengals beat us then we are indeed headed for another month of misery.

[theking213]

LOL....yes, I'm afraid you're 100% right.

That's why I put hopefully....but if the Bengals beat us then we are indeed headed for another month of misery.

Things that none of us ever thought we would say while Manning was still a Colt. :nono2:

This is a sad season indeed. But it will lead to better things hopefully next year with everyone healthy.

[Xfiles]

Of course they dont like it...so they were going to go out and Prove they could win without Peyton.......oops.

Then they were going to stay respectable without Peyton.......oops.

Then they could still remain competitive, which they have, but suck for luck is more of a fan thing anyway...so why are players spending time talking about it rather than trying to become better at football?

[Jason_]

Good post and a +1 for you. Some of these "anti-Luck" people here are just going to repeat the same nonsense over and over just to try and support their ridiculous argument. I would guarantee if we have the 1st pick in the draft and we pass on Luck, then Manning gets injured again next season and decides to retire, These very exact same anti Luck people will be throwing a fit because we passed on the best QB prospect to come out of college in yrs.. Their basic argument is we'll get more high picks then they act as if it's a guarantee that every single one of these extra picks will turn out to be pro bowlers within a yr. or 2 and our team will be dominant. And of course, this also assumes Manning is an indestructable robot that will automatically play at last yrs. level for the next 5 yrs.. I don't know about you but thats an awful lot of ifs and buts IMO.

The pro-luck people are essentially doing the same thing. I for one, no matter what happens, will not be upset about passing on Luck if that is in fact what we do. If we trade the Luck pick, and acquire 4-5 players who all turn out to be busts....yeah that would really suck but it still doesn't mean the trade down was a bad decision.

Also, the basic argument of all of the pro-Luck people is that he's the next greatest of all time. He's never played a game in the NFL and as i pointed out in multiple other threads, his numbers look very similar right now to those of Alex Smith...a guy who's been average at best throughout his career until the day Jim Harbaugh showed up. Now, through only 5 games in Harbaugh's system, Alex Smith is one of the 3 most efficient QB's in the NFL. Did he wake up early one morning and read the "how to be a good NFL QB for dummies" handbook? Or is it possible that Harbaugh's scheme and philosophy is very QB friendly? If you want to spend the #1 overall pick on the guy then you'd better be ABSOLUTELY sure of the answer to those questions.

[ruksak]

The pro-luck people are essentially doing the same thing. I for one, no matter what happens, will not be upset about passing on Luck if that is in fact what we do. If we trade the Luck pick, and acquire 4-5 players who all turn out to be busts....yeah that would really suck but it still doesn't mean the trade down was a bad decision.

Also, the basic argument of all of the pro-Luck people is that he's the next greatest of all time. He's never played a game in the NFL and as i pointed out in multiple other threads, his numbers look very similar right now to those of Alex Smith...a guy who's been average at best throughout his career until the day Jim Harbaugh showed up. Now, through only 5 games in Harbaugh's system, Alex Smith is one of the 3 most efficient QB's in the NFL. Did he wake up early one morning and read the "how to be a good NFL QB for dummies" handbook? Or is it possible that Harbaugh's scheme and philosophy is very QB friendly? If you want to spend the #1 overall pick on the guy then you'd better be ABSOLUTELY sure of the answer to those questions.

I think you're breaking it down too deep.

The "basic argument" is, we don't want to transition from Manning to "???". We know the Polian's, and they're going to continue to build this team around the QB. So lets bring in a highly tauted and very talented QB in Luck if given the chance. We are taking a QB next year, period, no doubt. If we have a chance to bring in the best looking one of the bunch, then what sense does it make to pass on him?

[Jason_]

I think you're breaking it down too deep.

The "basic argument" is, we don't want to transition from Manning to "???". We know the Polian's, and they're going to continue to build this team around the QB. So lets bring in a highly tauted and very talented QB in Luck if given the chance. We are taking a QB next year, period, no doubt. If we have a chance to bring in the best looking one of the bunch, then what sense does it make to pass on him?

Agreed, however the whole point that got me started down the trade down path was when I first asked myself if Luck is the best looking because he's that much more talented, or because he benefits from a system that is setup for him to succeed.

I have no doubt they're going to draft a QB this coming year, none at all. But again, if they're going to spend the #1 overall on the guy then they better be absolutely sure he looks as good as he does because of talent, and not because of system.....the same system that turned Alex Smith from mediocre to top 3 in efficiency.

[ruksak]

Agreed, however the whole point that got me started down the trade down path was when I first asked myself if Luck is the best looking because he's that much more talented, or because he benefits from a system that is setup for him to succeed.

I have no doubt they're going to draft a QB this coming year, none at all. But again, if they're going to spend the #1 overall on the guy then they better be absolutely sure he looks as good as he does because of talent, and not because of system.....the same system that turned Alex Smith from mediocre to top 3 in efficiency.

I certainly can't guarantee that Luck will become the next Stafford/Bradford. I'll leave that to the pros. Ya know, same ones that proclaimed Reggie Bush as the second coming of Christ. Tricky stuff here.

[pacolts56]

The pro-luck people are essentially doing the same thing. I for one, no matter what happens, will not be upset about passing on Luck if that is in fact what we do. If we trade the Luck pick, and acquire 4-5 players who all turn out to be busts....yeah that would really suck but it still doesn't mean the trade down was a bad decision.

Also, the basic argument of all of the pro-Luck people is that he's the next greatest of all time. He's never played a game in the NFL and as i pointed out in multiple other threads, his numbers look very similar right now to those of Alex Smith...a guy who's been average at best throughout his career until the day Jim Harbaugh showed up. Now, through only 5 games in Harbaugh's system, Alex Smith is one of the 3 most efficient QB's in the NFL. Did he wake up early one morning and read the "how to be a good NFL QB for dummies" handbook? Or is it possible that Harbaugh's scheme and philosophy is very QB friendly? If you want to spend the #1 overall pick on the guy then you'd better be ABSOLUTELY sure of the answer to those questions.

It's very possible.

But right now Peyton Manning IS our "scheme and philosophy", and whatever we do on offense after Peyton is gone, whenever that happens...will likely be different and, by necessity, probably alot more balanced.

That's not a bad thing.

The continuance of Manning's success and how he gets it done, under any other QB...is unrealistic no matter who it is....and IMO, can't be tied to a "system". Yes....Curtis Painter is operating within it right now, but it is all he's been coached to do at this level. And as we can see...the results are directly tied to the QBs physical and mental ability to execute it.

If Harbaugh has installed what you call a QB friendly offense...meaning excellent TEs and a solid rushing attack behind a versatile O-line...and the Colts want to take that approach after Peyton retires, then they got my vote.

[Xfiles]

Agreed, however the whole point that got me started down the trade down path was when I first asked myself if Luck is the best looking because he's that much more talented, or because he benefits from a system that is setup for him to succeed.

I have no doubt they're going to draft a QB this coming year, none at all. But again, if they're going to spend the #1 overall on the guy then they better be absolutely sure he looks as good as he does because of talent, and not because of system.....the same system that turned Alex Smith from mediocre to top 3 in efficiency.

I am still trying to figure out what you have seen from Luck that gives you reason to believe he isnt as good as advertised. The rest of that Stanford squad is not that great. Luck makes them special. I do understand its very hard to predict pitfalls from College to pros, but its not like we are seeing any signs with Luck comparable to the questionable smarts and accuracy type questions that accompanied a guy like Jamarcus russell. Luck looks like an NFL ready QB to almost anyone who watches what he does on the field.