Welker still yapping...talks about Manning not throwing to him

[Jason_]

Welker would never admit that as its not true anyways but him and Brady are best friends...

 

The 2 are so close, Manning and Brady, that there is no "truth" about which is better, only opinion. ;)

[Jason_]

Wes has earned the right to have his say. Obviously, based on the responses...people listen to what he has to say.

 

Dude is tough, dedicated, and hard working. He has my ear.

 

You still have the other one though....right?

[ruksak]

You still have the other one though....right?

lol.....just lol...

[amfootball]

They're so close, Brady even gave Wes a mammogram once.

 

 

 

PS:Do they have civil unions in Boston?

 

Lol. That is great man. What is Welker doing to Brady? ha.

 

Guess you don't know your politics. MA was the first state to pass gay marriage eons ago. We didn't get to vote. Our politicians just pushed it through. Typical of the shame we deal with here on a day to day basis. To think, we were once the home of the great revival and Jonathan Edwards and such. My how far we have digressed ...

[Warhorse]

Lol. That is great man. What is Welker doing to Brady? ha.

 

Guess you don't know your politics. MA was the first state to pass gay marriage eons ago. We didn't get to vote. Our politicians just pushed it through. Typical of the shame we deal with here on a day to day basis. To think, we were once the home of the great revival and Jonathan Edwards and such. My how far we have digressed ...

As you know, politics are not discussed on the site. Please follow the posting guidelines.

[ruksak]

As you know, politics are not discussed on the site. Please follow the posting guidelines.

Yikes....sorry Warhorse. I had no intention of leading him into that. 

[Warhorse]

Yikes....sorry Warhorse. I had no intention of leading him into that. 

I know. I was just trying to nip it early.

[Colts_Fan12]

I'm waiting for him to go ahead and admit that Manning is a better QB. Probably after the SB win is my guess.

that woul be funny it's so true tho!!

[bayone]

I'm waiting for him to go ahead and admit that Manning is a better QB. Probably after the SB win is my guess. 

 

 

Welker would never admit that as its not true anyways but him and Brady are best friends...

 

 

that woul be funny it's so true tho!!

 

True or not depends personal bias,  on so many variables of what u think is important and team around u   ,and what u do to elevate them ,& coaching support as well as getting succesful early draft picks & team injuries etc, etc etc,

 

while I know my feelings I just dont want to see another thread TOPIC turn into this debate

=============

 

Welker is with the Broncos now, but there still are times when his mind is back in New England.

 

"When I'm answering questions from the Denver media, I'm not worried about what the Broncos' people are going to think," Welker told SI. "I'm worried about what Belichick will think. Isn't that crazy?"

 

The Broncos publicly stated they wanted a more transparent franchise since John Elway became the team's head of football operations in January 2011. Still, Welker should know that coach John Fox doesn't like his players saying something that makes headlines.

 

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_23818548/welker-admits-si-he-still-has-belichick-brain

[ruksak]

 

 

"Welker is with the Broncos now, but there still are times when his mind is back in New England."

 

What works about that, and why that won't be an issue; Welker is with the right guy if he's having an identity crisis. I'm sure Manning spent the better part of last year struggling with the same internal conflict of still identifying himself with the Colts. Peyton will not hold such feelings against Welker. 

 

...and how about Welker's luck? By the time his career is up, he'll have caught passes from the 2 most prolific and legendary QB's of our era, of all time. 

[bayone]

What works about that, and why that won't be an issue; Welker is with the right guy if he's having an identity crisis. I'm sure Manning spent the better part of last year struggling with the same internal conflict of still identifying himself with the Colts. Peyton will not hold such feelings against Welker. 

 

...and how about Welker's luck? By the time his career is up, he'll have caught passes from the 2 most prolific and legendary QB's of our era, of all time. 

 

 

Peyton wont, took him a long time to get acclimated, he just shouldn't talk  to make headlines, sometimes I knoww u just cant stop yourself, but at some point one must just say no

 

still in the end for the most part Peyton had control last year, Welker must learn what Peyton wants & thats harder

 

What Luck, I thought we had " LUCK " 

 

Have a good afternoon

[amfootball]

As you know, politics are not discussed on the site. Please follow the posting guidelines.

Yes, I know. Thanks for the reminder. Won't happen again. The pic posted was really funny and so was the comment so I got carried away.

[amfootball]

What works about that, and why that won't be an issue; Welker is with the right guy if he's having an identity crisis. I'm sure Manning spent the better part of last year struggling with the same internal conflict of still identifying himself with the Colts. Peyton will not hold such feelings against Welker. 

 

...and how about Welker's luck? By the time his career is up, he'll have caught passes from the 2 most prolific and legendary QB's of our era, of all time. 

That is a good point. If anyone has a right to be bitter it is Manning, right? Yet, he compliments Luck all the time and never says boo about the Colts even though inside he is probably seething. That is why I respect the heck out of him. Welker? Not so much. to be honest, I am surprised that he keeps taking shots. I thought he was bigger than that. As a Pats fan, it is sad to read as we know he loved the team and the fans but he has to know his comments are bothersome and childish.

[Superman]

Exactly. Like I said, if he says something boring, or just tells reporters he'd rather answer questions about Denver, they'll stop asking. He's perpetuating this by being accommodating. Makes for good media, but it also makes him sound soft.

 

I don't understand what's soft about a grown man not wanting to get chewed out in front of his peers. I know "it's football, it's a man's game," and so on. Yeah, sometimes you're going to get chewed out by your coach. Doesn't mean you have to like it.

 

And I'm also getting the feeling that this kind of interaction between Belichick and Welker was different toward the end of Welker's time there. Maybe Belichick started treating him different after they tagged him last year. Or maybe it was after Welker said whatever he said about Rex Ryan. Doesn't really matter, but it sounds like things changed over time.

 

And again, that's fine, but I can understand Welker not appreciating being treated a certain way, especially when he felt like he had earned a certain amount of respect.

 

Kind of a non-issue to me. But I agree that Welker would be better served deflecting questions about the Patriots and Belichick from now on.

[amfootball]

I don't understand what's soft about a grown man not wanting to get chewed out in front of his peers. I know "it's football, it's a man's game," and so on. Yeah, sometimes you're going to get chewed out by your coach. Doesn't mean you have to like it.

 

And I'm also getting the feeling that this kind of interaction between Belichick and Welker was different toward the end of Welker's time there. Maybe Belichick started treating him different after they tagged him last year. Or maybe it was after Welker said whatever he said about Rex Ryan. Doesn't really matter, but it sounds like things changed over time.

 

And again, that's fine, but I can understand Welker not appreciating being treated a certain way, especially when he felt like he had earned a certain amount of respect.

 

Kind of a non-issue to me. But I agree that Welker would be better served deflecting questions about the Patriots and Belichick from now on.

Yeah, something I think did change but even Welker said that Belichick does that to every player so I am not sure why the griping now. It is pretty much common knowledge how Bill coaches and it is hard to argue with the results especially in Welker's case given he became the most feared slot man in the game.

 

I think things got frosty when he was benched in the Jets playoff game which came from Kraft after the foot comments which I am sure he thought were harmless. I also think his two drops - one in the SB and last year in the AFC champ game help to usher him out and he is probably bitter about that too.

 

He would be better served to just focus on the Broncs but he seems like he will talk to whoever asks ...

[GoPats]

I don't understand what's soft about a grown man not wanting to get chewed out in front of his peers. I know "it's football, it's a man's game," and so on. Yeah, sometimes you're going to get chewed out by your coach. Doesn't mean you have to like it.

 

And I'm also getting the feeling that this kind of interaction between Belichick and Welker was different toward the end of Welker's time there. Maybe Belichick started treating him different after they tagged him last year. Or maybe it was after Welker said whatever he said about Rex Ryan. Doesn't really matter, but it sounds like things changed over time.

 

And again, that's fine, but I can understand Welker not appreciating being treated a certain way, especially when he felt like he had earned a certain amount of respect.

 

Kind of a non-issue to me. But I agree that Welker would be better served deflecting questions about the Patriots and Belichick from now on.

 

Totally respect the opinion, and in most workplaces, I would agree wholeheartedly. No one wants to get chewed out or emasculated in front of their peers! But I generally think of football players being a little above the "take your complaint down to HR" crowd. 

 

It just kind of sounded whiny to me, that's all. "Bill was mean!" That kind of thing. In his shoes I think I would have refrained. 

 

Just my opinion. Which, along with $.85, will get you a candy bar out of the vending machine.  ;)

[DILLIGAFER]

the old addage.. you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.. you'll get your chance to stick it to Bill, Wes.. all in good time. for now, follow Manning's lead and quietly just go about your business..

[Superman]

Yeah, something I think did change but even Welker said that Belichick does that to every player so I am not sure why the griping now. It is pretty much common knowledge how Bill coaches and it is hard to argue with the results especially in Welker's case given he became the most feared slot man in the game.

 

I think things got frosty when he was benched in the Jets playoff game which came from Kraft after the foot comments which I am sure he thought were harmless. I also think his two drops - one in the SB and last year in the AFC champ game help to usher him out and he is probably bitter about that too.

 

He would be better served to just focus on the Broncs but he seems like he will talk to whoever asks ...

 

The guy represented 25% of the Patriots passing offense. I don't think the decision to let him leave comes down to a couple of drops (regardless how big a stage they happened on). He is one of the most productive receivers in the game over the past six years. 

 

Also, a few times it's been inferred that the Patriots "made him" into such a dangerous weapon. The Patriots have struggled developing receivers for a while, whether that's draft picks or free agent signings. If they could "make" Welker, why can't they "make" anyone else? Truth is, the Patriots didn't make him; they put him in position to excel, and playing with an all time great quarterback and for an all time great coach are a big part of that, but Welker was already well established as a solid pro.

 

He would be better served to not discuss the Patriots, aside from the run of the mill "they were great, Brady is great, Belichick is great, the fans were great" kind of thing. But I don't think his comments make him sound soft or whiny. I think they are an accurate reflection of how any grown man would react if he feels he was disrespected.

[Superman]

Totally respect the opinion, and in most workplaces, I would agree wholeheartedly. No one wants to get chewed out or emasculated in front of their peers! But I generally think of football players being a little above the "take your complaint down to HR" crowd. 

 

It just kind of sounded whiny to me, that's all. "Bill was mean!" That kind of thing. In his shoes I think I would have refrained. 

 

Yeah, but to hear you tell it, Welker sat at his locker and cried about it. He didn't take his complaint down to HR, he didn't file a grievance, he didn't raise a fuss about it. He used the status of his relationship with Belichick to make his decision about where he wanted to play. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, nor do I think admitting it makes him less of a man.

 

Again, he probably shouldn't say anything. I just disagree with the "soft" and "whiny" angle. 

 

Just my opinion. Which, along with $.85, will get you a candy bar out of the vending machine.   ;)

 

 

 Yeah, same here. As always.

[ruksak]

The guy represented 25% of the Patriots passing offense. I don't think the decision to let him leave comes down to a couple of drops (regardless how big a stage they happened on). He is one of the most productive receivers in the game over the past six years. 

 

 

I heard Skip "I wanna marry Tebow" Bayless going on about how Welker led the league in drops last year, as well as highlighting a few key drops of his in the playoffs. Skip "I wanna marry Tebow" Bayless forgot to mention that Welker has caught more passes than just about anyone else over the last 4-5 years. 

 

The law of averages say that if you're thrown to more than most players, you'll drop more than most players. 

[Yehoodi]

The guy represented 25% of the Patriots passing offense. I don't think the decision to let him leave comes down to a couple of drops (regardless how big a stage they happened on). He is one of the most productive receivers in the game over the past six years. 

 

Also, a few times it's been inferred that the Patriots "made him" into such a dangerous weapon. The Patriots have struggled developing receivers for a while, whether that's draft picks or free agent signings. If they could "make" Welker, why can't they "make" anyone else? Truth is, the Patriots didn't make him; they put him in position to excel, and playing with an all time great quarterback and for an all time great coach are a big part of that, but Welker was already well established as a solid pro.

 

He would be better served to not discuss the Patriots, aside from the run of the mill "they were great, Brady is great, Belichick is great, the fans were great" kind of thing. But I don't think his comments make him sound soft or whiny. I think they are an accurate reflection of how any grown man would react if he feels he was disrespected.

 

 

Yes Welker did have a decent career as a Patriot and true he caught some balls . . . but a good portion of those catches are due to how our offense is set up . . . we like to use slot receiver (Troy Brown before him who btw was the proceeding catch leader) so naturally he will get a lot of targets . . . also I don't get too wrapped up in stats, like some of media here in Boston, "where is the production going to come from and all?" . . . it will find its way in other forms and receivers . . . Indeed if Welker only catches 70 balls from Manning no one is going to say that Manning is 70% of Brady, that is only capable to yielded 70% of Welker's production with Brady.   It is just that he may not be targeted as much in Denver . . .

 

With that said Welker was great with us . . . we will see how well he is "produce" in Denver's offense . . .

 

As for Welker production prior the pats, he was a undrafted free agent that was a solid returner and one good year at WR . . .. he was put in a good spot in NE, and given how he fit into our offense, not so sure if he would of had the same production on another team . . .

 

As for the few drops in key games . . . there are some out there in the cyber world who relish in the fact that the "pats have done nuttin's since 2004" and to those individuals those drops were key . . . I don't necessary mind the drops, but ultimately we strive to win and in Foxboro we do want to win with the ultimate goal of the SB as the same is in our reach, so to that extent the performance in January and February does hold some weight, perhaps more than with other teams or fans  . . .

 

As for being disrespected . . . true he may of been under paid a portion of his contract, but then again you are worth what you are worth when you sign the contract and Welker was only worth so much when he signed here in NE . . . two years ago the pats offered him 8 mil per year for two years , and actually hit the market value of Welker correctly, actually overvalued him . . . Welker and his agent refused the offer, now he is making 6 mil in Denver when he could still be in NE making 8 mil this year . . .  Also, Welker had the foot presser in direct violation of team policy thereby putting BB in a bind days before a key playoff game . . . plus last year he went on the Comcast station here and make "stick to Bill comment"  although he did wink, it was out of place . . . . so if he got the ire of BB in the locker room . . . so be it . . . take an offer worth more than your value, don't make fun of a coach in the context of his wife on the eve of a playoff game, and don't sound off to the media about your coach and perhaps one might find a more sympathetic coach . . .

 

As for he not seeing playing time last year early, the Pats knew Welker was gone last year, if the man is not going to take an offer over his market value, regardless of what he thinks his value is, he is not staying . . . as such one need to start to groom his replacement and get the offense set up for when he does leave . . . this is how the pats do business . . . it goes back to the "groceries" commends by Coach Parcells . . . Parcells was in a year to year contact and he never really gave Kraft a long term commitment and as such Kraft was worried about one drafting for the long term but had short term dedications and so he pulled the drafting decisions from Parcells . . .

 

So yes I do feel bad for Welker and wish was still with the pats adding depth with Amendola . . . but he is gone, I wish him well . . .

 

I do think though that he needs to curtail his presser and be more general . . . I understand that he might feel slighted by the pats and some of this doing was in part to his actions . . .

[Superman]

Yes Welker did have a decent career as a Patriot and true he caught some balls . . . but a good portion of those catches are due to how our offense is set up . . . we like to use slot receiver (Troy Brown before him who btw was the proceeding catch leader) so naturally he will get a lot of targets . . . also I don't get too wrapped up in stats, like some of media here in Boston, "where is the production going to come from and all?" . . . it will find its way in other forms and receivers . . . Indeed if Welker only catches 70 balls from Manning no one is going to say that Manning is 70% of Brady, that is only capable to yielded 70% of Welker's production with Brady.   It is just that he may not be targeted as much in Denver . . .

 

With that said Welker was great with us . . . we will see how well he is "produce" in Denver's offense . . .

 

As for Welker production prior the pats, he was a undrafted free agent that was a solid returner and one good year at WR . . .. he was put in a good spot in NE, and given how he fit into our offense, not so sure if he would of had the same production on another team . . .

 

 

The system benefited Welker, but let's not act like the system "produced" a guy who led the league in receptions over the last six years. No, he wouldn't have had that kind of production with just any other team, but then again, the Patriots offense probably isn't as productive without him either. It was a very symbiotic relationship. Now that he's gone, a lot of Pats fans want to claim that he was the beneficiary, and the team was the benefactor. No sir.

 

It's funny, people talk about Brady not having weapons, but are very dismissive of Welker's abilities, and he's the most productive weapon Brady has ever had. If Brady and the Pats can just "make" a great receiver, why does it matter who he's throwing to? Why not stick with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney?

 

 

As for the few drops in key games . . . there are some out there in the cyber world who relish in the fact that the "pats have done nuttin's since 2004" and to those individuals those drops were key . . . I don't necessary mind the drops, but ultimately we strive to win and in Foxboro we do want to win with the ultimate goal of the SB as the same is in our reach, so to that extent the performance in January and February does hold some weight, perhaps more than with other teams or fans  . . .

 

I don't know what that has to do with my point.

 

But the counter-argument to that is that, without Welker, the Pats would have been hard pressed to even be in those big games. Tom Brady has played one playoff game without Wes Welker since 2007, and in it, he looked very human. Welker made tons of big catches for the Pats over his time there, despite the two drops that Pats fans keep harping on.

[Superman]

I heard Skip "I wanna marry Tebow" Bayless going on about how Welker led the league in drops last year, as well as highlighting a few key drops of his in the playoffs. Skip "I wanna marry Tebow" Bayless forgot to mention that Welker has caught more passes than just about anyone else over the last 4-5 years. 

 

The law of averages say that if you're thrown to more than most players, you'll drop more than most players. 

 

I think it's fair to criticize him for dropping passes. I just don't think it's fair to reduce his contributions to a couple of mistakes he made in six years, not while he's leading the league in receptions over that entire time period.

 

If Pats fans want to reduce Reche Caldwell's time with their team to his dropped pass in the AFCCG, that's a different story. He doesn't have six years of elite level production to fall back on.

[Yehoodi]

The system benefited Welker, but let's not act like the system "produced" a guy who led the league in receptions over the last six years. No, he wouldn't have had that kind of production with just any other team, but then again, the Patriots offense probably isn't as productive without him either. It was a very symbiotic relationship. Now that he's gone, a lot of Pats fans want to claim that he was the beneficiary, and the team was the benefactor. No sir.

 

It's funny, people talk about Brady not having weapons, but are very dismissive of Welker's abilities, and he's the most productive weapon Brady has ever had. If Brady and the Pats can just "make" a great receiver, why does it matter who he's throwing to? Why not stick with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney?

 

 

 

I don't know what that has to do with my point.

 

But the counter-argument to that is that, without Welker, the Pats would have been hard pressed to even be in those big games. Tom Brady has played one playoff game without Wes Welker since 2007, and in it, he looked very human. Welker made tons of big catches for the Pats over his time there, despite the two drops that Pats fans keep harping on.

 

My point regarding production it is not like a player necessarily "brings" production to a team like say a great hitter in baseball (who has an even amount of at bats as his teammates and as such one would want a good hitter on ones team) . . . part of the "production" of how much one is targeted; and as such, one can garner more yards therefore appear to be a greater producer than he might otherwise be if he was targeted less . . . it the same principle about those who understand (unlike skip bayless) that just because Welker lead the league in the drops does not mean his has the worst hands in football . . . however, one needs apply this same point to totals and yards and say that since Welker had X yards numbers does not mean he is at X level in the NFL . . . unlike a hitter in baseball, who can not be allowed to hit 4 times in a 9 man batter order, a player in football can get more targets per player . . . and again our last slot receiver was the team's leading receiver

 

As for losing our production, there were same media yahoos that thought when Moss left we would go down the sewer but we did not  . . . . likewise we have Amendola coming in to take Welker spot and I would be really surprise if there is much of a drop off . . .  

 

This season is different than '06 where we were thin to begin with (our first round TEs (Watson/graham) did not pan out like Gronk) and planned to part with Givens and then were surprised that Branch went nuclear on us too late for us to plan for replacements . . .

 

As for Brady weapons, no did not have the big weapons before and some did not pan out like Chad Jackson and Bethel Johnson, but we did get in 2007 , Welker, moss and Stallworth with Gaffney providing a solid #4 and even beating out Stallworth, so since then Brady had more than just one solid threat . . .

 

Given at the time we did not chase Welker, we had Hernandez, Gronk, Amendola in the wings, and eyes to the draft . . . unfortunately Hernandez is gone and Gronk had back surgery, so things look a tad worse then when the Welker final decisions were made . . .

 

yes welker was great and work fantastic with Brady, no argument, but I think that Amendola will do just as well . . . is not like we are going forward with Edelman as a replacement, solid guy, but get injured and lot and does have the dropsies, we have to wait and see how Amendola pans out . . . I don't think the drop off will be as big as some may think . . . and if the rookies pan out then we will be okay . . .

 

I just brought in done nutten point as I inferred from your post about the drops you were referring to pats fans being upset. . . my only point was there are many non pats fans that would disagree with you regarding key drops, justified or not . . . bottom line those non pats "done nutten" fans will look at '07 and even tho were we 18-0 and 2 mins from 19-0 will say we "done nutten" , translation in their theory,  it does not matter what you do up and even until 18.92-0, if you mess up in the end you "done nutten"  similar, if they are consistent, would say to you do "I don't care what Welker did, if he fouls up late in a last game of the season" he "done nutten" so those non pats fans would say to you "two drops"="done nutten" and that is not coming from us pats fans . . . that was my point we are not on a island regarding our view on Welker . . .

[Qwiz]

Jennings and Welker should hang out sometime, talk about former teams lol.

[LockeDown]

Peyton is harder on his teammates than BB is. Peyton probably had Welker at his Rap shoot, so they could work on routes between takes. BB ends practice and Welker won't see him again till next day. Peyton ends practice and then starts another practice.

[amfootball]

Peyton is harder on his teammates than BB is. Peyton probably had Welker at his Rap shoot, so they could work on routes between takes. BB ends practice and Welker won't see him again till next day. Peyton ends practice and then starts another practice.

This may be the best post I have ever read from you and I can't agree more. Bill will seem like a cupcake compared to Manning and HIS expectations.

[amfootball]

The guy represented 25% of the Patriots passing offense. I don't think the decision to let him leave comes down to a couple of drops (regardless how big a stage they happened on). He is one of the most productive receivers in the game over the past six years. 

 

Also, a few times it's been inferred that the Patriots "made him" into such a dangerous weapon. The Patriots have struggled developing receivers for a while, whether that's draft picks or free agent signings. If they could "make" Welker, why can't they "make" anyone else? Truth is, the Patriots didn't make him; they put him in position to excel, and playing with an all time great quarterback and for an all time great coach are a big part of that, but Welker was already well established as a solid pro.

 

He would be better served to not discuss the Patriots, aside from the run of the mill "they were great, Brady is great, Belichick is great, the fans were great" kind of thing. But I don't think his comments make him sound soft or whiny. I think they are an accurate reflection of how any grown man would react if he feels he was disrespected.

I think Yehoodi made all the points I would have made in response to this. I was not suggesting that the dropped balls were the only reason or even the most significant reason as to why Welker was not signed but they did factor in. Football in Foxboro come Jan and Feb is the most important time of year for a franchise that prides itself on rings. Welker came up small and it did not go unnoticed.

 

We can agree to disagree on him looking soft/whiny. When a grown man who plays pro football for a living is upset because his coach calls him out, he looks like a Sally. Especailly when said coach has that type of rep and does it to every player.

[bayone]

Peyton is harder on his teammates than BB is. Peyton probably had Welker at his Rap shoot, so they could work on routes between takes. BB ends practice and Welker won't see him again till next day. Peyton ends practice and then starts another practice.

 

 

This may be the best post I have ever read from you and I can't agree more. Bill will seem like a cupcake compared to Manning and HIS expectations.

 

u may be right there, but Peyton is most demanding too of himself and always steps in front of the camera & takes responcibilty

[GoPats]

The guy represented 25% of the Patriots passing offense. I don't think the decision to let him leave comes down to a couple of drops (regardless how big a stage they happened on). He is one of the most productive receivers in the game over the past six years. 

 

 

 

I don't think it was the number of drops, I think it was the overall idea that having your offense go through your slot receiver is a flawed design. Too easy to stop by clogging up the middle, and the good (playoff caliber) teams have the personnel and smarts to do that.

 

The Patriots have won a lot of regular season games and Welker has been productive, but they're hovering around .500 for the playoffs since 2007. Teams that have shut them down... the Ravens (twice, once without Welker), the Giants, the Jets... have all done it the same way. Clog up the middle, pay less attention to the outside guys, and get some heat on Brady without sending extra pass rushers. 

 

Belichick, as a defensive-minded coach, always looks at how other teams perceive his offense. It goes back to the end of the 2001 season when they traded Bledsoe within the division. Belichick knew how to rattle him and throw him off, and he knew that everyone else had it figured out, too.

 

My theory on letting Welker walk is that after six years, his contributions produced some nice runs but no titles. The definition of insanity is doing something the same exact way over and over again and expecting different results. I do believe they had Hernandez pegged for a huge role this year and, had the Patriots known what was going to happen, they may have thrown enough money at Welker to keep him. They've stocked up on big, rangy receivers and everything, to me anyways, indicates a shift in philosophy. 

[Superman]

I think Yehoodi made all the points I would have made in response to this. I was not suggesting that the dropped balls were the only reason or even the most significant reason as to why Welker was not signed but they did factor in. Football in Foxboro come Jan and Feb is the most important time of year for a franchise that prides itself on rings. Welker came up small and it did not go unnoticed.

 

We can agree to disagree on him looking soft/whiny. When a grown man who plays pro football for a living is upset because his coach calls him out, he looks like a Sally. Especailly when said coach has that type of rep and does it to every player.

 

It's just that Pats fans constantly bring up those drops when discussing Welker's merit. I think that angle is very misplaced when you're discussing the most productive receiver in the NFL over the last six years.

 

Something else I haven't brought up is how Welker busted his hump to be ready to play after his knee injury. I think Brady's most impressive season was 2010, when his TD:INT ratio was 9:1. But in the playoffs without Welker, the offense struggled, with Brady looking almost like a different quarterback (154 yards on 42 attempts, 3 interceptions). Without Welker bouncing back in unprecedented fashion -- he did it before Adrian Peterson did -- the Pats would have had serious problems in 2011. I know that was the big emergence of the tight end attack, and a lot of that was by design, but Welker still caught 122 passes and had 9 touchdowns; he was a huge part of the passing offense, still accounting for more than 25% of the catches and yards, and 23% of the scores.

 

I think Pats fans would be more appreciative of his contributions. Yes, he's not there anymore, and I wouldn't expect you to cry over his departure. But the way those drops comes up, it's petulant and entitled. Again, JMO.

 

Back to the soft/whiny thing, I think you're being naive if you think every NFL player isn't upset when he's call out by his coach in front of his teammates. Part of being a grown man is not wanting your manhood challenged in that way. If that happened in a different environment, it might turn physical. But there's this macho mystique associated with sports, where it's supposed to be okay for a person to be derided in front of his peers. It's a longstanding tradition, and in certain instances, I think it has its advantages. That doesn't mean that the person being derided isn't upset by it. He is, probably to a man.

 

So in Welker's case, for that to be a part of his decision making as a free agent isn't surprising. It's not soft, it's human nature. Again, he should stop talking about the Patriots; the time for a post-mortem is past. But he's not soft for disliking the way he perceives he was treated.

[LockeDown]

This may be the best post I have ever read from you and I can't agree more. Bill will seem like a cupcake compared to Manning and HIS expectations.[/

No maybes...it IS my best.

[Superman]

I don't think it was the number of drops, I think it was the overall idea that having your offense go through your slot receiver is a flawed design. Too easy to stop by clogging up the middle, and the good (playoff caliber) teams have the personnel and smarts to do that.

 

The Patriots have won a lot of regular season games and Welker has been productive, but they're hovering around .500 for the playoffs since 2007. Teams that have shut them down... the Ravens (twice, once without Welker), the Giants, the Jets... have all done it the same way. Clog up the middle, pay less attention to the outside guys, and get some heat on Brady without sending extra pass rushers. 

 

Belichick, as a defensive-minded coach, always looks at how other teams perceive his offense. It goes back to the end of the 2001 season when they traded Bledsoe within the division. Belichick knew how to rattle him and throw him off, and he knew that everyone else had it figured out, too.

 

My theory on letting Welker walk is that after six years, his contributions produced some nice runs but no titles. The definition of insanity is doing something the same exact way over and over again and expecting different results. I do believe they had Hernandez pegged for a huge role this year and, had the Patriots known what was going to happen, they may have thrown enough money at Welker to keep him. They've stocked up on big, rangy receivers and everything, to me anyways, indicates a shift in philosophy. 

 

I understand that there are flaws with having your slot guy represent so much of your offense. But Welker has been your #1 producer because a) he's really good, and b) the Pats don't have the outside weapons to take pressure off of Welker. The one position Belichick has always stuggled to find talent at is receiver.

 

As of now, there's an obvious shift in philosophy, and that shift does make Welker more expendable for the Pats (in theory, anyways; let's see how it works out, but I'm sure Belichick and Brady know what they're doing). That's good team management. There's nothing wrong with Pats fans embracing that change and looking forward to the future. But that doesn't mean that Welker was any less crucial to the last six years. And it certainly doesn't make his contributions easy to replace.

 

What I don't agree with is the idea that the Pats not winning a ring despite Welker's contributions somehow makes him expendable. I actually think that sounds pretty crazy. Welker didn't cost the Pats a ring, or a chance at a ring. (Not even his drop in the Super Bowl; yes it was a drop, but it wasn't a great through, so the blame really should be split equally between Welker and Brady.) As a matter of fact, I'd go so far as to say that the Pats probably don't make it to the two Super Bowls without Welker. How many times has Welker been in the right spot at the right time for a game-ending first down?

 

You insinuate that Welker was a part of the problem, when in fact, he's simply been the Pats most reliable receiver for the last six years. It suggests that the offensive line didn't melt down in 2007 against the Giants (while Welker was catching 11 balls for 103 yards, well over 1/3 of the passing production). It's not Welker's fault that the Patriots didn't win a ring while he was there, anymore than it's Brady's fault or Belichick's fault or Wilfork's fault.  Without Welker, they'd be hard pressed to have had the success they did have. 

 

It's also interesting to me how Brady always comes off clean in these discussions, but any other quarterback is judged on the postseason. The reason the Pats haven't won a Super Bowl is because they ran the offense through Welker? Seems kind of like a defense mechanism. Don't get me wrong; I'm not blaming Brady for the drought. I'm just saying that if I suggested that the reason another team with a great quarterback hasn't won a Super Bowl in several is because their most productive receiver was a slot guy, I don't think you'd have any part of it. I think I'd get the old "quarterbacks are judged by Super Bowls" line.

 

I think the Pats had such a great stretch early in Brady's career that some of their fans forget how hard winning in the playoffs really is. You guys had it rough for a while, but now you're in "Super Bowl or bust" mode. High expectations are great, especially with a great coach and QB, but "hovering around .500" isn't indicative of a crumbling franchise. The Giants have missed the playoffs three of the last six years, and while I'm sure you'd trade two playoffs appearances for two Super Bowls, the point is that sustained success over a long period of time is very difficult to achieve. The Patriots are an excellent example of that.

[amfootball]

It's just that Pats fans constantly bring up those drops when discussing Welker's merit. I think that angle is very misplaced when you're discussing the most productive receiver in the NFL over the last six years.

 

Something else I haven't brought up is how Welker busted his hump to be ready to play after his knee injury. I think Brady's most impressive season was 2010, when his TD:INT ratio was 9:1. But in the playoffs without Welker, the offense struggled, with Brady looking almost like a different quarterback (154 yards on 42 attempts, 3 interceptions). Without Welker bouncing back in unprecedented fashion -- he did it before Adrian Peterson did -- the Pats would have had serious problems in 2011. I know that was the big emergence of the tight end attack, and a lot of that was by design, but Welker still caught 122 passes and had 9 touchdowns; he was a huge part of the passing offense, still accounting for more than 25% of the catches and yards, and 23% of the scores.

 

I think Pats fans would be more appreciative of his contributions. Yes, he's not there anymore, and I wouldn't expect you to cry over his departure. But the way those drops comes up, it's petulant and entitled. Again, JMO.

 

Back to the soft/whiny thing, I think you're being naive if you think every NFL player isn't upset when he's call out by his coach in front of his teammates. Part of being a grown man is not wanting your manhood challenged in that way. If that happened in a different environment, it might turn physical. But there's this macho mystique associated with sports, where it's supposed to be okay for a person to be derided in front of his peers. It's a longstanding tradition, and in certain instances, I think it has its advantages. That doesn't mean that the person being derided isn't upset by it. He is, probably to a man.

 

So in Welker's case, for that to be a part of his decision making as a free agent isn't surprising. It's not soft, it's human nature. Again, he should stop talking about the Patriots; the time for a post-mortem is past. But he's not soft for disliking the way he perceives he was treated.

I think your perceptions of how Pats fans feel about Welker are misplaced on this thread. This whole off-season he has taken shots at Belichick when given the chance so naturally this thread is not going to be favorable toward him but that does not mean Pats fans do not appreciate his time in New England and his work ethic, toughness, etc. I think what is shocking to be honest is his behavior since he signed with the Broncos. Here it is just weeks from the start of the season and he is still talking about Belichick. That would concern me if I was a Broncos fan. As a Pats fan, it makes him look about two inches big. Never saw that coming from him and it is disappointing.

 

In terms of the drops, not sure what to tell you but a ring was at stake with the first one and a trip to the SB with the second. Those drops smart. For all the great things he has done, it is hard not to wish that those two monumental catches were made. It is kind of like Bill Buckner. He was a great player for the Sox for years but the slow roller between the legs pretty much defined his time in Boston. Unfair? Sure. But such is life as a professional athlete.

[amfootball]

I understand that there are flaws with having your slot guy represent so much of your offense. But Welker has been your #1 producer because a) he's really good, and b) the Pats don't have the outside weapons to take pressure off of Welker. The one position Belichick has always stuggled to find talent at is receiver.

 

As of now, there's an obvious shift in philosophy, and that shift does make Welker more expendable for the Pats (in theory, anyways; let's see how it works out, but I'm sure Belichick and Brady know what they're doing). That's good team management. There's nothing wrong with Pats fans embracing that change and looking forward to the future. But that doesn't mean that Welker was any less crucial to the last six years. And it certainly doesn't make his contributions easy to replace.

 

What I don't agree with is the idea that the Pats not winning a ring despite Welker's contributions somehow makes him expendable. I actually think that sounds pretty crazy. Welker didn't cost the Pats a ring, or a chance at a ring. (Not even his drop in the Super Bowl; yes it was a drop, but it wasn't a great through, so the blame really should be split equally between Welker and Brady.) As a matter of fact, I'd go so far as to say that the Pats probably don't make it to the two Super Bowls without Welker. How many times has Welker been in the right spot at the right time for a game-ending first down?

 

You insinuate that Welker was a part of the problem, when in fact, he's simply been the Pats most reliable receiver for the last six years. It suggests that the offensive line didn't melt down in 2007 against the Giants (while Welker was catching 11 balls for 103 yards, well over 1/3 of the passing production). It's not Welker's fault that the Patriots didn't win a ring while he was there, anymore than it's Brady's fault or Belichick's fault or Wilfork's fault.  Without Welker, they'd be hard pressed to have had the success they did have. 

 

It's also interesting to me how Brady always comes off clean in these discussions, but any other quarterback is judged on the postseason. The reason the Pats haven't won a Super Bowl is because they ran the offense through Welker? Seems kind of like a defense mechanism. Don't get me wrong; I'm not blaming Brady for the drought. I'm just saying that if I suggested that the reason another team with a great quarterback hasn't won a Super Bowl in several is because their most productive receiver was a slot guy, I don't think you'd have any part of it. I think I'd get the old "quarterbacks are judged by Super Bowls" line.

 

I think the Pats had such a great stretch early in Brady's career that some of their fans forget how hard winning in the playoffs really is. You guys had it rough for a while, but now you're in "Super Bowl or bust" mode. High expectations are great, especially with a great coach and QB, but "hovering around .500" isn't indicative of a crumbling franchise. The Giants have missed the playoffs three of the last six years, and while I'm sure you'd trade two playoffs appearances for two Super Bowls, the point is that sustained success over a long period of time is very difficult to achieve. The Patriots are an excellent example of that.

The catalyst for both Pats runs to the SBs since 2007 were Moss (2007) and Gronk (2011) respectively. BOTH had historical seasons for a WR and TE. Welker was open those seasons because of those two guys not the other way around. Sorry to burst your bubble. But trying to paint Welker as the guy in the offense that got the Pats to the SBs is just not true. Any servicable slot guy would have done fine those two seasons and would not have altered either trip the bowl.

[Superman]

I think your perceptions of how Pats fans feel about Welker are misplaced on this thread. This whole off-season he has taken shots at Belichick when given the chance so naturally this thread is not going to be favorable toward him but that does not mean Pats fans do not appreciate his time in New England and his work ethic, toughness, etc. I think what is shocking to be honest is his behavior since he signed with the Broncos. Here it is just weeks from the start of the season and he is still talking about Belichick. That would concern me if I was a Broncos fan. As a Pats fan, it makes him look about two inches big. Never saw that coming from him and it is disappointing.

 

In terms of the drops, not sure what to tell you but a ring was at stake with the first one and a trip to the SB with the second. Those drops smart. For all the great things he has done, it is hard not to wish that those two monumental catches were made. It is kind of like Bill Buckner. He was a great player for the Sox for years but the slow roller between the legs pretty much defined his time in Boston. Unfair? Sure. But such is life as a professional athlete.

 

This thread is started by a Pats fan, talking about how they feel about Welker. How are my comments on that out of place? The reason this thread isn't favorable toward him is because you're not favorable toward him.

 

I disagree with your entire premise here, but that's fine. Like I said, from my outside perspective, I think some Pats fans come across as spurned lovers in this whole thing. 

[Kyle]

there are some out there in the cyber world who relish in the fact that the "pats have done nuttin's since 2004" and to those individuals those drops were key . . .

I think the Pats have "done nuttin" since '04 because....welll.... they havent.  

I gotta quote Nelly on this one, "2 is not a winner and 3 nobody remembers" 

 

also, i don't think Welker's drops were key, i think the lack of video footage to review is key. 

 

*drops mic and walks away*

[Superman]

The catalyst for both Pats runs to the SBs since 2007 were Moss (2007) and Gronk (2011) respectively. BOTH had historical seasons for a WR and TE. Welker was open those seasons because of those two guys not the other way around. Sorry to burst your bubble. But trying to paint Welker as the guy in the offense that got the Pats to the SBs is just not true. Any servicable slot guy would have done fine those two seasons and would not have altered either trip the bowl.

 

No, the catalyst for both SB appearances was Tom Brady. I never called Welker the catalyst.

 

And while those other guys -- including Welker -- were super important, they are all replaceable, with enough forethought and luck. The 2007 Patriots didn't need a record setting receiver anymore than they needed a perfect season. They were up 21-3 in the AFCCG in 2006, with bums at receiver. They just needed an upgrade over Jabar Gaffney and Reche Caldwell. It didn't have to be Randy Moss and Wes Welker; it could have been Braylon Edwards and Bobby Engram. Maybe you don't go 16-0, and maybe Brady doesn't throw 50 touchdowns, but the Pats are still a really good team with as good a shot at the Super Bowl as anyone else in the AFC.

 

Welker definitely benefited from Moss and Gronkowski. What you ignore is how much they benefited from his presence and performance. Like I said before, it was a symbiotic relationship. And yes, Welker could have been replaced, probably easier than those two guys. That doesn't mean he wasn't crucial to their success. 

 

We can go through the hypothetical exercise of trying to rewrite history if you'd like, but the truth is that, the way the Patriots were constructed, they relied heavily on Welker in the passing game. And he performed.

[Kyle]

This thread is started by a Pats fan, talking about how they feel about Welker. How are my comments on that out of place? The reason this thread isn't favorable toward him is because you're not favorable toward him.

 

I disagree with your entire premise here, but that's fine. Like I said, from my outside perspective, I think some Pats fans come across as spurned lovers in this whole thing. 

just to clarify a bit... by "some Pats fans" he means you amfootball.

[amfootball]

This thread is started by a Pats fan, talking about how they feel about Welker. How are my comments on that out of place? The reason this thread isn't favorable toward him is because you're not favorable toward him.

 

I disagree with your entire premise here, but that's fine. Like I said, from my outside perspective, I think some Pats fans come across as spurned lovers in this whole thing. 

And said Pats fan was commenting on Welker's shot at Belichick (I did post a link to the story) hence the unfavorable slant.

 

Spurned lovers? Laughable. Welker is the one appearing like a spurned lover. It is obvious that he wanted to stay with Brady and was upset at Belichick ... to each his own but his comments make him look infantile. A shame as he was a fan fav.