Welker still yapping...talks about Manning not throwing to him

[amfootball]

I just... this is impossible.

 

My point is very simple: You Pats fans coming out so negative against Wes Welker is clearly an indication of your hurt feelings that he left. You're bitter and resentful. And it betrays any objectivity when you start talking about how easily he'll be replaced and focusing on a couple of big drops, etc.

 

Specific to this topic, I think Welker's comments show some bitterness as well. According to Kraft, the Pats offered him more money, and he still went to the Broncos. He was upset about something more than just the money, and it's coming out in his comments. But I don't think him expressing how he disliked being treated a certain way in front of his teammates is "whiny." I think it's natural for a grown man to want to be treated with respect.

 

But never mind all of that. Just keep pretending that you're the objective one, that you are the one who -- despite your feelings -- has the proper perspective on Wes Welker, and I'm the one who is seeing what I want to see. 

Again you are imposing your feelings here. I never said Welker was easily replaceable but looking at Amendola's stats, I like what I see. His health is of concern but right now he is healthy so I feel pretty good about it. You act like it is silly for us to believe the Pats can and did replace him.  If there is any team with a penchant for moving on from players and replacing them it is the Pats so I think our confidence here is not misplaced or reflects bitter feelings against Welker in any way but you can choose to see them that way but that is your issue.

 

What I am upset about that you can't just seem to get is that Welker is STILL talking about Bill and the way he was treated and it is mid-August. You even said yourself he would be better served keeping his mouth shut. Why? Because it has been months and everyone HAS moved on but him apparently.

[southwest1]

Kraft said he normally doesn't talk about contracts, and that's right. But he felt it was good to explain to the media and the fans what happened with Wes Welker. I'd appreciate that if I were a Pats fan. He didn't seem upset, maybe disappointed because he wanted Welker to stay.

You could be right Superman, but I had a completely different take on what Mr. Kraft said or rather the tone of his words. I get that NE fans want some sort of explanation for why negotiations broke down between Welker & Kraft, but Kraft's demeanor came across as bitter defiance to me almost as if a kind of family oath had been forever breached or contaminated beyond repair. Robert made it personal. A cardinal mistake. [When Robert Kraft was talking to an ESPN reporter with clown face paint on, he let his personal friendship with Welker cloud or blur his usually savvy media vision in my view. JMO].

 

Both Kraft & Belichick are only obligated to do 1 thing & 1 thing only: Putting a competitive Playoff team on the field every single week during the season. Everything else is irrelevant. 

[GoColts8818]

I just... this is impossible.

 

My point is very simple: You Pats fans coming out so negative against Wes Welker is clearly an indication of your hurt feelings that he left. You're bitter and resentful. And it betrays any objectivity when you start talking about how easily he'll be replaced and focusing on a couple of big drops, etc.

 

Specific to this topic, I think Welker's comments show some bitterness as well. According to Kraft, the Pats offered him more money, and he still went to the Broncos. He was upset about something more than just the money, and it's coming out in his comments. But I don't think him expressing how he disliked being treated a certain way in front of his teammates is "whiny." I think it's natural for a grown man to want to be treated with respect.

 

But never mind all of that. Just keep pretending that you're the objective one, that you are the one who -- despite your feelings -- has the proper perspective on Wes Welker, and I'm the one who is seeing what I want to see. 

It really is amazing how fans will turn on a player on a dime if he leaves their team.  Colts fans aren't above this, look at how some reacted to Peyton or Garcon leaving. 

 

Frankly I think the difference here in Welker leaving the Pats and some other players leaving their old team is the media smelled a story because of how public the contract talks between Welker and the Pats really were and they could just kinda sense how they ended badly on both ends and they wanted to know why.  So they asked Welker and he answered. 

 

I can understand why fans don't like to see their team talked bad about but I would agree with there being some hurt feelings here by some Pats fans because he rejected their team to play for someone else, it's natural.  To use an every day example, if a girl/guy you like rejects you most people have hurt feelings over it and don't always have the nicest things to say about that person right after the rejection. 

 

Like I said before, if Pats fans honestly think their team is going to be just fine without him why care what he has to say?  Just ignore him.  I think the truth be told, a lot of Pats wont admit to it, but they are concerned about their team without him.  I can't blame them for that either, he was a great player for that team for a lot of years it's natural to worry about replacing him.  With that said I do fully believe the Pats still have Tom Brady they will be fine. 

[amfootball]

It really is amazing how fans will turn on a player on a dime if he leaves their team.  Colts fans aren't above this, look at how some reacted to Peyton or Garcon leaving. 

 

Frankly I think the difference here in Welker leaving the Pats and some other players leaving their old team is the media smelled a story because of how public the contract talks between Welker and the Pats really were and they could just kinda sense how they ended badly on both ends and they wanted to know why.  So they asked Welker and he answered. 

 

I can understand why fans don't like to see their team talked bad about but I would agree with there being some hurt feelings here by some Pats fans because he rejected their team to play for someone else, it's natural.  To use an every day example, if a girl/guy you like rejects you most people have hurt feelings over it and don't always have the nicest things to say about that person right after the rejection. 

 

Like I said before, if Pats fans honestly think their team is going to be just fine without him why care what he has to say?  Just ignore him.  I think the truth be told, a lot of Pats wont admit to it, but they are concerned about their team without him.  I can't blame them for that either, he was a great player for that team for a lot of years it's natural to worry about replacing him.  With that said I do fully believe the Pats still have Tom Brady they will be fine. 

First, great post and points. Not sure why Super can't get this.

 

To the bolded, I think Pats fans are concerned. I think moreso because we also lost Hernandez. Friday night was very encouraging even for a preseason game because we got to see the new TEs and WRs. Also the run game looked scary good with Blount. I think having Amendola helps with the Welker thing but we know he gets injured so cautious optism there for sure. Of course we trust in Brady (per your last point) and Bill because we have been down this road before when Brown retired, Faulk got old, Branch left, etc.

 

I think what is disappointing that I have been trying to get across here is that Welker is STILL talking about it. It was obvious when he signed for $1 mil more a season that he didn't want to stay because of some issues. No one really knew what those issues were and now we know it was Bill. I get that. Bill is not easy HC to play for and many players over the years have not liked him but Welker seems particulary scorned maybe because he and Brady are such great friends and he wanted to stay? I dunno know but he is coming off really poor here and ill feelings from Pats fans are to be expected. One thing for sure, I am looking forward to Nov and watching the Pats D lay some wood on him. ;)

[amfootball]

You could be right Superman, but I had a completely different take on what Mr. Kraft said or rather the tone of his words. I get that NE fans want some sort of explanation for why negotiations broke down between Welker & Kraft, but Kraft's demeanor came across as bitter defiance to me almost as if a kind of family oath had been forever breached or contaminated beyond repair. Robert made it personal. A cardinal mistake. [When Robert Kraft was talking to an ESPN reporter with clown face paint on, he let his personal friendship with Welker cloud or blur his usually savvy media vision in my view. JMO].

 

Both Kraft & Belichick are only obligated to do 1 thing & 1 thing only: Putting a competitive Playoff team on the field every single week during the season. Everything else is irrelevant. 

Hi Southwest, I know we have had this conversation before but I think it was intentional that Kraft made it personal because of the media storm that arose over Welker signing elsewhere for $1 mil more a year. He is a personal guy and has done this before with other players departures, e.g. Bledsoe, Milloy, Seymour. It is a family to Kraft so he treats it like that privately and publicly. You can dislike it but i don't think it was a PR gaffe at all. He was trying to convey his emotion to the fanbase which was stunned given the Brady deal and all. He was both sad and upset and I agree that both came across.

[bayone]

 

 

now i know why u suddenly ? welker, its not that hes no longer a Patriot, its that u like me just found out his  full first name is

 

" Westopher " , yeah I prefer just WES myself ( LOL )

[Jules]

now i know why u suddenly ? welker, its not that hes no longer a Patriot, its that u like me just found out his  full first name is

 

" Westopher " , yeah I prefer just WES myself ( LOL )

 

 

Westopher? OMG

 

Okay nevermind, carry on with the thread.

[Vance]

 

Westopher? OMG

 

Okay nevermind, carry on with the thread.

 

Yeah and Jim Irsay's full first name is "Jimothy" ;)

[Superman]

It really is amazing how fans will turn on a player on a dime if he leaves their team.  Colts fans aren't above this, look at how some reacted to Peyton or Garcon leaving.

 

Frankly I think the difference here in Welker leaving the Pats and some other players leaving their old team is the media smelled a story because of how public the contract talks between Welker and the Pats really were and they could just kinda sense how they ended badly on both ends and they wanted to know why.  So they asked Welker and he answered. 

 

I can understand why fans don't like to see their team talked bad about but I would agree with there being some hurt feelings here by some Pats fans because he rejected their team to play for someone else, it's natural.  To use an every day example, if a girl/guy you like rejects you most people have hurt feelings over it and don't always have the nicest things to say about that person right after the rejection.

 

I know it happens. What's funny is when people pretend that they aren't being biased when they do this.

 

[amfootball]

 

I know it happens. What's funny is when people pretend that they aren't being biased when they do this.

 

If is even funnier when peoplpe refuse to acknowledge that a player is acting like a child and feelings from his former fanbase are not only justified despite his contributions but are to be expected ....

[TAPLOOK]

There's something to be said about the Patriot Way. Wes who? Aaron who? God I love Belichick. It's going to be a fun season once again.

[Superman]

If is even funnier when peoplpe refuse to acknowledge that a player is acting like a child and feelings from his former fanbase are not only justified despite his contributions but are to be expected ....

 

So you don't think this is a matter of opinion? You thinking that Welker is being whiny and childish is absolute fact, and anyone who disagrees with it is ignoring the truth?

 

I think it's very plainly a matter of opinion, as I implied when I first posted in this thread.

 

But what's very clear is that YOUR opinion is influenced by your personal feelings regarding Welker. I have no personal feelings about the Welker situation, as I'm not a Pats fan.

[bayone]

So you don't think this is a matter of opinion? You thinking that Welker is being whiny and childish is absolute fact, and anyone who disagrees with it is ignoring the truth?

 

I think it's very plainly a matter of opinion, as I implied when I first posted in this thread.

 

But what's very clear is that YOUR opinion is influenced by your personal feelings regarding Welker. I have no personal feelings about the Welker situation, as I'm not a Pats fan.

 

this thread needs to stop its comical already, all points made , all points / opinions wont be changed , just reiterated 

 

I am amazed daily to see it so active with same thing rehashed using different words trying to persuade ones view that just wont happen , or try to deflect one opinion of the other who is stating their opinion, it just wont happen

[amfootball]

So you don't think this is a matter of opinion? You thinking that Welker is being whiny and childish is absolute fact, and anyone who disagrees with it is ignoring the truth?

 

I think it's very plainly a matter of opinion, as I implied when I first posted in this thread.

 

But what's very clear is that YOUR opinion is influenced by your personal feelings regarding Welker. I have no personal feelings about the Welker situation, as I'm not a Pats fan.

Of course it is a matter of your opnion. But as usualy you think yours is the only one that is valid and then you attribute motives to other people's opinions. It is possible to have been a fan of Welker and also think he is acting childish with his comments this off-season. Both Pats fans and non-Pats fans have said they think his comments are childish/whiny and you even said yourself he should keep his mouth shut. Not sure what you can't get this. It is not that hard. Really.

[-JJ-]

There's nothing wrong with being a fan of a player then turning on him when he leaves. Branch did this with me. Mostly because he sat out and didn't honor his contract.

As to Welker I like him and thought he was a big part of NE offense. I'm glad he left however, not for personal reasons but just because change is good. There are lot's of good football players and we were just relying on him too much, for good reason. So this forced it. Awesome I say.

I didn't get into the personal stuff but did just read the article.

Sup- Yeah no private likes being laid out in front of his platoon which is basically how NE runs things.

Most of us that remember the lack of discipline on this team before BB welcome it. Even Brady is not above reproach.

[GoColts8818]

There's nothing wrong with being a fan of a player then turning on him when he leaves. Branch did this with me. Mostly because he sat out and didn't honor his contract.

As to Welker I like him and thought he was a big part of NE offense. I'm glad he left however, not for personal reasons but just because change is good. There are lot's of good football players and we were just relying on him too much, for good reason. So this forced it. Awesome I say.

I didn't get into the personal stuff but did just read the article.

Sup- Yeah no private likes being laid out in front of his platoon which is basically how NE runs things.

Most of us that remember the lack of discipline on this team before BB welcome it. Even Brady is not above reproach.

I am not saying anything is wrong with, in fact I think just about all teams fans do it at some level.  It's natural.  I mean look at Colts fans you hear a lot more about Manning's faults now than you ever did when he was a Colt. With that said, I think some Pats fans are trying to deny that they are turning on Welker because he left in the first place. 

[ViriLudant]

I am not saying anything is wrong with, in fact I think just about all teams fans do it at some level.  It's natural.  I mean look at Colts fans you hear a lot more about Manning's faults now than you ever did when he was a Colt. With that said, I think some Pats fans are trying to deny that they are turning on Welker because he left in the first place.

You know this because...? From here, where there are very few Patriot fans, many of whom don't even post that much anymore?

On Patriot boards, many knowledgeable Patriot fans have been less than thrilled with Welker for more than a year, particularly since the SB where he dropped a catchable ball that would have been the nail in the coffin. He dropped a lot of passes last year (led the NFL, in fact).

Believe me, plenty of Patriot fans were down on Welker before he left.

[GoColts8818]

You know this because...? From here, where there are very few Patriot fans, many of whom don't even post that much anymore?

On Patriot boards, many knowledgeable Patriot fans have been less than thrilled with Welker for more than a year, particularly since the SB where he dropped a catchable ball that would have been the nail in the coffin. He dropped a lot of passes last year (led the NFL, in fact).

Believe me, plenty of Patriot fans were down on Welker before he left.

I said THINK and SOME, those words matter.  I didn't say ALL or even MOST Pats fans and I sure didn't say I KNOW Pats fans are doing this.  In other words it's my opinion and I am basing it off of how some of the Pats fans have responded in this thread as well as other threads related to Welker and the Pats, namely how some of the very same fans who are anti-Welker now were Pro keeping him when his contract was up. 

[GoPats]

I understand that there are flaws with having your slot guy represent so much of your offense. But Welker has been your #1 producer because a) he's really good, and b) the Pats don't have the outside weapons to take pressure off of Welker. The one position Belichick has always stuggled to find talent at is receiver.

 

As of now, there's an obvious shift in philosophy, and that shift does make Welker more expendable for the Pats (in theory, anyways; let's see how it works out, but I'm sure Belichick and Brady know what they're doing). That's good team management. There's nothing wrong with Pats fans embracing that change and looking forward to the future. But that doesn't mean that Welker was any less crucial to the last six years. And it certainly doesn't make his contributions easy to replace.

 

What I don't agree with is the idea that the Pats not winning a ring despite Welker's contributions somehow makes him expendable. I actually think that sounds pretty crazy. Welker didn't cost the Pats a ring, or a chance at a ring. (Not even his drop in the Super Bowl; yes it was a drop, but it wasn't a great through, so the blame really should be split equally between Welker and Brady.) As a matter of fact, I'd go so far as to say that the Pats probably don't make it to the two Super Bowls without Welker. How many times has Welker been in the right spot at the right time for a game-ending first down?

 

You insinuate that Welker was a part of the problem, when in fact, he's simply been the Pats most reliable receiver for the last six years. It suggests that the offensive line didn't melt down in 2007 against the Giants (while Welker was catching 11 balls for 103 yards, well over 1/3 of the passing production). It's not Welker's fault that the Patriots didn't win a ring while he was there, anymore than it's Brady's fault or Belichick's fault or Wilfork's fault.  Without Welker, they'd be hard pressed to have had the success they did have. 

 

It's also interesting to me how Brady always comes off clean in these discussions, but any other quarterback is judged on the postseason. The reason the Pats haven't won a Super Bowl is because they ran the offense through Welker? Seems kind of like a defense mechanism. Don't get me wrong; I'm not blaming Brady for the drought. I'm just saying that if I suggested that the reason another team with a great quarterback hasn't won a Super Bowl in several is because their most productive receiver was a slot guy, I don't think you'd have any part of it. I think I'd get the old "quarterbacks are judged by Super Bowls" line.

 

I think the Pats had such a great stretch early in Brady's career that some of their fans forget how hard winning in the playoffs really is. You guys had it rough for a while, but now you're in "Super Bowl or bust" mode. High expectations are great, especially with a great coach and QB, but "hovering around .500" isn't indicative of a crumbling franchise. The Giants have missed the playoffs three of the last six years, and while I'm sure you'd trade two playoffs appearances for two Super Bowls, the point is that sustained success over a long period of time is very difficult to achieve. The Patriots are an excellent example of that.

 

I always appreciate good dialogue with the Son of Jor El. 

 

That said, I think when you watch every game a team plays, and you've rooted for that team for years, your perspective may be off from, say, someone who follows the same sport in another city. I don't think Patriots fans do not feel gratitude toward Welker for his years in New England. 

 

I don't think it's his "fault" that he's a slot receiver, of course, nor do I "blame" him for any losses. He didn't make plays at times when, if he had made them, they could have possibly turned around the outcome of at least two games. I suppose the same can be said for many guys. Welker also unfortunately had to open his mouth with all of those "foot jokes" before the game against the Jets; he was benched for the first series, in which Brady threw an INT trying to hit Green-Ellis on a screen pass. (And Brady throwing to Green-Ellis was not a common thing to see back then.) I've heard people theorize that Welker's absence on that drive was important. Not sure I agree, but it has some merit.

 

I don't think Welker was necessarily part of the problem - obviously he was productive. And it's not his fault if the scheme in which he's playing is flawed. It would have been nice to keep him around, and in both 2012 and 2013 the team made very good offers to him. It's not like they handed him the league minimum and said, "Take it or leave it." 

 

Personally I think Welker has wanted out for a while now. And I think he was conflicted about that, but ultimately decided to change his ZIP code. No hard feelings here, at least for this Pats fan. I'm just not going to really miss him and I don't really worry much about whether or not the Patriots will manage to move on without him. 

[-JJ-]

You know this because...? From here, where there are very few Patriot fans, many of whom don't even post that much anymore?

On Patriot boards, many knowledgeable Patriot fans have been less than thrilled with Welker for more than a year, particularly since the SB where he dropped a catchable ball that would have been the nail in the coffin. He dropped a lot of passes last year (led the NFL, in fact).

Believe me, plenty of Patriot fans were down on Welker before he left.

I haven't been on the Pats board in ages but its still after the fact.

WRs drop balls. Bad timing in the SB but no SB without Wes. I'm sure pats fans loved all those key 3rd down catches he made that got us in the playoffs.

However as I said, I'm fine he left this year due to age and a change in direction.

[-JJ-]

I am not saying anything is wrong with, in fact I think just about all teams fans do it at some level.  It's natural.  I mean look at Colts fans you hear a lot more about Manning's faults now than you ever did when he was a Colt. With that said, I think some Pats fans are trying to deny that they are turning on Welker because he left in the first place.

I do agree for the most part all fans do find fault with players after they leave. I'm not one of them however:)

I call it as I see it. I will say things like its ok to let a player go just before he's on his last leg as BB has done so many times.

[GoPats]

 

 

What I chuckle at is all these Pats fans who suddenly have all this negative commentary on Wes Welker. But a few months ago when Brady did his new contract, it was nothing but "now we'll be able to keep Welker, yaaaayyy!!! Brady's the best, yaaaayyyyy!!!" That's funny.

 

That's because his comments were published last week. If he said, "Bill is mean to me" six months, a year, two years ago... it would still sound like a bunch of whining to me.

 

I don't have an issue with him feeling that way. He should just have kept it to himself, is all I'm saying. No need to cry in SI about how tough you had it here. Belichick is hard on EVERYONE. Probably hardest on his stars, from what I gather. 

[GoColts8818]

I do agree for the most part all fans do find fault with players after they leave. I'm not one of them however:)

I call it as I see it. I will say things like its ok to let a player go just before he's on his last leg as BB has done so many times.

Right as I said in another post I don't think all fans are doing it, and I don't think all the Pats fans here are doing it but I do think there is a fair chunk of them that have turned on Welker because he was a Pat and are just fighting admitting it when it's really not that big of a deal because lots of fans do it, again see how some Colts fans reacted to Manning and Garcon leaving, heck you've been around here long enough to remember how some Colts fans turned on Dungy when he elected to retire. 

[GoPats]

I do agree for the most part all fans do find fault with players after they leave. I'm not one of them however:)

I call it as I see it. I will say things like its ok to let a player go just before he's on his last leg as BB has done so many times.

 

That's the thing. If Welker hadn't made those SI comments, I would not be here in this thread saying he sounds like a whiner. Which, sorry... but he does. I don't begrudge the guy and I wish him well. 

 

You remember when Parcells left NE and Pete Carroll came in? I remember a Bledsoe quote at the time... "well it's a lot more give-and-take now... with Bill, it was mostly take."

 

And what happened - to the Patriots, and Bledsoe too - when Pete came in? They when from 11-5 (with Parcells) to 10-6 to 9-7 to 8-8. And Bledsoe got worse as a player. 

 

Good coaches/bosses/mentors push you when you need it. 

[-JJ-]

That's the thing. If Welker hadn't made those SI comments, I would not be here in this thread saying he sounds like a whiner. Which, sorry... but he does. I don't begrudge the guy and I wish him well. 

 

You remember when Parcells left NE and Pete Carroll came in? I remember a Bledsoe quote at the time... "well it's a lot more give-and-take now... with Bill, it was mostly take."

 

And what happened - to the Patriots, and Bledsoe too - when Pete came in? They when from 11-5 (with Parcells) to 10-6 to 9-7 to 8-8. And Bledsoe got worse as a player. 

 

Good coaches/bosses/mentors push you when you need it.

Oh how I remember Carroll. He couldn't even handle Glen. I liked him personally but no discipline on the team- more like Sgt Bilco:)

I wouldn't want to work for BB myself- no ego-everyone is treated the same but that's why NE is successful. However I do think a lot of players like and respect him for other things..mainly he WILL put you in position to win and players like winning.

[amfootball]

Oh how I remember Carroll. He couldn't even handle Glen. I liked him personally but no discipline on the team- more like Sgt Bilco:)

I wouldn't want to work for BB myself- no ego-everyone is treated the same but that's why NE is successful. However I do think a lot of players like and respect him for other things..mainly he WILL put you in position to win and players like winning.

That is what is odd about Welker. He was so successful in NE. It was surprising to hear his issues were with Bill and him calling him out in practice. I mean he played for him for six years. So it is hard to fathom that it was reallly bothering him that much but I guess it was.

[-JJ-]

That is what is odd about Welker. He was so successful in NE. It was surprising to hear his issues were with Bill and him calling him out in practice. I mean he played for him for six years. So it is hard to fathom that it was reallly bothering him that much but I guess it was.

Yeah not sure what his beef was or just a recent thing. Was it over him being benched for a quarter for his comments on the Jets?

Its a strict rule BB enforces on talking to the media but they all know it's the rule so........no excuse.

[Superman]

I always appreciate good dialogue with the Son of Jor El. 

 

That said, I think when you watch every game a team plays, and you've rooted for that team for years, your perspective may be off from, say, someone who follows the same sport in another city. I don't think Patriots fans do not feel gratitude toward Welker for his years in New England. 

 

I don't think it's his "fault" that he's a slot receiver, of course, nor do I "blame" him for any losses. He didn't make plays at times when, if he had made them, they could have possibly turned around the outcome of at least two games. I suppose the same can be said for many guys. Welker also unfortunately had to open his mouth with all of those "foot jokes" before the game against the Jets; he was benched for the first series, in which Brady threw an INT trying to hit Green-Ellis on a screen pass. (And Brady throwing to Green-Ellis was not a common thing to see back then.) I've heard people theorize that Welker's absence on that drive was important. Not sure I agree, but it has some merit.

 

I don't think Welker was necessarily part of the problem - obviously he was productive. And it's not his fault if the scheme in which he's playing is flawed. It would have been nice to keep him around, and in both 2012 and 2013 the team made very good offers to him. It's not like they handed him the league minimum and said, "Take it or leave it." 

 

Personally I think Welker has wanted out for a while now. And I think he was conflicted about that, but ultimately decided to change his ZIP code. No hard feelings here, at least for this Pats fan. I'm just not going to really miss him and I don't really worry much about whether or not the Patriots will manage to move on without him. 

 

I hear you. I just disagree with you. Especially when you say things like "his contributions produced some nice runs but no titles." And I don't think the scheme was flawed, so much as the Pats didn't have a consistent outside receiver (Chad Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, etc.)

 

As always, I enjoy that we can understand each other. 

[amfootball]

I hear you. I just disagree with you. Especially when you say things like "his contributions produced some nice runs but no titles." And I don't think the scheme was flawed, so much as the Pats didn't have a consistent outside receiver (Chad Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, etc.)

 

As always, I enjoy that we can understand each other. 

What part of the bolded is not true? And just an FYI, when a team does not have a legit WR on the outside and they target their slot WR well over a hundred times, the scheme is flawed.

[GoPats]

I hear you. I just disagree with you. Especially when you say things like "his contributions produced some nice runs but no titles." And I don't think the scheme was flawed, so much as the Pats didn't have a consistent outside receiver (Chad Johnson, Brandon Lloyd, etc.)

 

As always, I enjoy that we can understand each other. 

 

They had a pretty good outside guy in 2007.  ;)

 

But absolutely, and as always, mad respect Kal El!

[Superman]

They had a pretty good outside guy in 2007.  ;)

 

But absolutely, and as always, mad respect Kal El!

 

Absolutely they did, but I don't think the failure to win a Super Bowl had anything to do with a flawed passing offense. It's not Welker's fault, nor is it due to his role in the offense, that the Pats lost to the Giants in 2007.

[Superman]

What part of the bolded is not true? And just an FYI, when a team does not have a legit WR on the outside and they target their slot WR well over a hundred times, the scheme is flawed.

 

The bolded suggests that it's his fault there were no championships. You could say that about a coach or a quarterback, and I'd still have issue with it. When you lay the blame on a receiver, I think it's totally misplaced.

 

And what I mean about the scheme not being flawed is that the Pats relied so heavily on Welker because the outside guys weren't very good. If you had better outside receivers, Welker wouldn't have been targeted as much. He was targeted that much, not because the scheme required it, but because no one else could carry the weight. Especially after Randy Moss stopped being effective. I don't think there's an inherent issue with throwing the ball to a slot receiver a ton. I think the issue is with having to throw the ball to the slot receiver.

[amfootball]

The bolded suggests that it's his fault there were no championships. You could say that about a coach or a quarterback, and I'd still have issue with it. When you lay the blame on a receiver, I think it's totally misplaced.

 

And what I mean about the scheme not being flawed is that the Pats relied so heavily on Welker because the outside guys weren't very good. If you had better outside receivers, Welker wouldn't have been targeted as much. He was targeted that much, not because the scheme required it, but because no one else could carry the weight. Especially after Randy Moss stopped being effective. I don't think there's an inherent issue with throwing the ball to a slot receiver a ton. I think the issue is with having to throw the ball to the slot receiver.

It does not suggest it is his fault as you were accusing Pats fans of being bitter over his departure and GoPats was saying that he was not bitter over it because his run with us did not produce any championships. That has been the heart of the discussion - your assumption that Pats fans are somehow bitter at Welker and pretending like his departure was/is not a big deal. Of course championships are never the fault of one player but Welker was not a difference maker either in terms of getting rings, in fact just the opposite his drop in the SB two seasons ago is a direct reason why the Pats missed out a chance at a fourth and his drop in the AFC champ game last season when the Pats were driving to go up either 16-7 or 20-7 was critical as well.  As much as you say you don't like when Pats fans reduce him to his drops, it was those very drops that make his departure not all that painful. He was never money like Troy Brown or even Deion Branch when it came to making THE plays to win in the post-season. That is not lost on a fanbase that measures itself by rings and the players that have made those plays to win rings.

 

In terms of the scheme, again, it is not about it being Welker's fault. The discussion is how Pats feel about him leaving. While we saw him make his catches, it did not propel us to anything beyond playoff exits. He only averaged 5 TDs a season hence the sea shift in thinking this season with bigger guys on the outside and more TEs and an improved run game. These are ALL reasons why Pats fans are not bitter as you suggest and feel confident that the Pats will more than cover his 25 percent production because it will be off-loaded from the slot position.

[Gramz]

I think Wes might be done yapping...

.... luckily we still have the Forum to keep it going    

[DILLIGAFER]

This may be the best post I have ever read from you and I can't agree more. Bill will seem like a cupcake compared to Manning and HIS expectations.

at this post.. I bet Peyton doesnt belittle him in front of others and talk ignorant to him. THERE inlies the difference.

[amfootball]

at this post.. I bet Peyton doesnt belittle him in front of others and talk ignorant to him. THERE inlies the difference.

My, my how soon we forget Manning's temper tantrum with Saturday?  Welker will get more from Manning than he ever got from Bill and some may be on TV for all to see ...

[OffensivelyPC]

The more Welker keeps talking this off-season, the happier I am that is no longer a Patriot. I wonder if the Broncs at some point will tell him to put a lid on it as it is Aug. 8 and he STILL has Belichick on his mind. He is very bitter yet he says he would only have played for the Pats or Broncos this season. lol.

 

Interesting note at the end that he says he is having a tough time running the seam route the way Manning wants because he was so used to it doing it one way for the Pats for six years. He says that if he does not run the route the way Manning wants then Manning won't throw it to him. Wondering if some issues are arising there?

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/2013/08/07/treatment-from-bill-belichick-contributed-wes-welker-departure/xubfw5SfY9GZlOT5Vx89sJ/story.html

It's not so much that he's going out looking for reporters to bash Belichick.  It's reporters coming to Welker asking him the same questions over and over again.  I feel for the guy, and I understand the business decision.  But he's not really telling us anything we didn't already know about Belicheck, and i'ts not like we know football players don't take crap from their coaches and don't like it. 

[DILLIGAFER]

My, my how soon we forget Manning's temper tantrum with Saturday? Welker will get more from Manning than he ever got from Bill and some may be on TV for all to see ...

psh.. please. those guys are buddies. last i checked Billy never was buds with Welker. he just belittles them, uses the up and sends them off without so much as a hand shake.

oh and how soon you foget that touching moment in the pro bowl when Saturday snapped his last ball to his long time QB and friend Manning.

that was a very mediocre smack back BTW, try again later with something better.

[Yehoodi]

psh.. please. those guys are buddies. last i checked Billy never was buds with Welker. he just belittles them, uses the up and sends them off without so much as a hand shake.

oh and how soon you foget that touching moment in the pro bowl when Saturday snapped his last ball to his long time QB and friend Manning.

that was a very mediocre smack back BTW, try again later with something better.

 

Sends him off? . . . if Welker accepted the pats offer of 16 mil for two years, he would still be in NE making 8 mil this year instead of playing in Denver at 6 mil . . . not sure what your send off point was . . . 

 

And manning is not beyond belittling his mates, he does is and it has been on camera . . .  and so does BB . . . to say that manning is some kind of saint and does not belittle his mates is just crazy talk . . . does he do it constantly no, but has done it and has been caught on camera . . .

[amfootball]

psh.. please. those guys are buddies. last i checked Billy never was buds with Welker. he just belittles them, uses the up and sends them off without so much as a hand shake.

oh and how soon you foget that touching moment in the pro bowl when Saturday snapped his last ball to his long time QB and friend Manning.

that was a very mediocre smack back BTW, try again later with something better.

Out of respect for Colts fans I will refrain from bringing up Manning's dealings with his teammates but suffice to say it is his very drive for perfection and love of football like Belichick that will have him ALL over Welker if he feels his head is not in the game or practice. That is what makes Manning who he is. And he is not afraid to get in someone's face and let them know. Agains, same as Bill in that regard.