Bruce Arians: Don't rank Andrew Luck over Big Ben

[#12]

At this point, he's absolutely right.

 

I loved how honest Arians was.  If you observed him interacting with the players, you would realize this is something he would tell Luck to his face. 

[#12]

Big Ben wasn't the reason the Steerlers beat the Seahawks in the superbowl, it was the defense. Big Ben has been on a top 5 defense his entire career and he wasn't the MVP for the Steerlers win over the Cardinals. I do think Ben is a top 10 QB and slighty ahead of Luck because of his experience but if your gonna bring up rings he should have been the main reason they won the superbowl and Ben wasn't.

 

I'm not the biggest Roethlisberger fan on earth.  And yes, their success can mostly be attributed to their defense.  Since Roethlisberger arrived, in the 3 seasons in which their defense slipped a little(out of the top 5), they didn't even make the playoffs.  That said, Luck is a second year player who went through some ups and downs as a rookie.  He's not on that level yet. 

[Poster X]

hey hey people calm down!! He said that right now Andrew shouldn't be rated higher than Big Ben and I strongly support him. We are talking of a vet with 2 rings and a Super Bowl winning drive. Andrew just has 11 wins, Arians never said something like "Andrew will never be better than big ben, or andrew will never win 2 rings" he is just saying that right NOW andre can't be rated higher and again i totally support that statement. I believe luck will be better QB in the future, but still he has a lot to prove.

 

 

Before all is said and done Roethlisberger may have more rapes that rings too. I would certainly rank Andrew Luck as a much better person than him all around.

[oldunclemark]

There is a video as well as an article here are the main excerpt's, 

When he was told Luck likely will be ranked ahead of Big Ben he said, 

"That surprises me." "Andrew belongs on the list, but he's not at that stage yet. He's got to put a couple rings on his finger and a bunch more wins."

Full article here:http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000202195/article/bruce-arians-dont-rank-andrew-luck-over-big-ben   

 

Some here still hold a grudge against Arians, for numerous reasons. I am sure this will only fuel that. While I believe he was simply answering honestly, but he is a HC now and could have easily deflected this topic had he chosen. Appears to me he went out of his way to make this argument.

What do you guys think? A couple more rings seems like a stretch to me.

 

[In Luck We Trust]

Bruce Arians should stop lying to himself & others. The Steelers defense is what made them (and Ben) so good over the years.

We all got to see it this year. When the defense isn't healthy and at is best, the Steelers are just an average team. I've NEVER seen a game when Big Ben out dueled another QB except the Steelers vs Giants game in his rookie year. Most games the defense scored points or created good field position for Ben. In their SB loss it became clear that Big Ben isn't fit for shootouts and relies heavily on that Defense. Packers defense had him looking like a rookie QB fresh off the bench

And stop with the Ring comparison!!! It's a team effort to WIN a SB. Cause Peyton definitely didn't win that SB vs CHI for us. Defense and our run game that both suddenly came alive won the game for us

I was just about to say 3/4 of this lol. and to prove a point on your comment about their defense.... that superbowl against AZ would have been Az superbowl championship if it was not for (i think Foote's INT, not sure on the player) that INT returned for 100 yards for a TD right before half time. that was the turning point of the game. after that, the game changed.

 

and you are correct about the game against GB. Rodgers and company had that defense looking like a joke, and once that happened the packers defense had rothlisberger looking like nothing more then a varsity QB in HS. The steelers are not a good team unless that defense is 100% healthy.

[oldunclemark]

 

 

 

   The truth about Andrew Luck (and RG3 and Russell Wilson) is..

 

.........you dont prove anything in one season.....Ben has proven himself.....

 

 

  With that said..the NFL Net 'Top-100' is about the top players of 2013, not 2012..

 

  It IS possible that Andrew will be better than Ben in 2013...so the players vote might be correct

[FightLikeSin]

Overall I agree with Bruce's comments. But this isn't Top 100 player over the past 10 years. This is Top 100 of 2013. With that said, Andrew does deserve to be ranked higher than Ben. Simple enough.

[JoKeR]

He coached booth of them and when he left Pittsburg, Ben was a superbowl winning veteran QB. He only coached Luck as a rookie. I'm not surprised 1 bit.

[JoKeR]

Overall I agree with Bruce's comments. But this isn't Top 100 player over the past 10 years. This is Top 100 of 2013. With that said, Andrew does deserve to be ranked higher than Ben. Simple enough.

Overall I agree with Bruce's comments. But this isn't Top 100 player over the past 10 years. This is Top 100 of 2013. With that said, Andrew does deserve to be ranked higher than Ben. Simple enough.

But often players still vote based on career achievements. I mean how was Freeney voted higher than Mathis? It doesn't make a lot of sense. Voters can't seem to get it through their heads that this will happen every year, so it doesn't make sense to vote based on career accomplishments. Also players are the only 1s voting this year, so Arians doesn't have to follow the guidelines to give his opinion.

[FightLikeSin]

But often players still vote based on career achievements. I mean how was Freeney voted higher than Mathis? It doesn't make a lot of sense. Voters can't seem to get it through their heads that this will happen every year, so it doesn't make sense to vote based on career accomplishments. Also players are the only 1s voting this year, so Arians doesn't have to follow the guidelines to give his opinion.

 

Yeah I understand. Manning was ranked 50th best player of 2012 without playing a down. It's a skewed logic that I don't think the league explains to players very well.

[TKnight24]

I was just about to say 3/4 of this lol. and to prove a point on your comment about their defense.... that superbowl against AZ would have been Az superbowl championship if it was not for (i think Foote's INT, not sure on the player) that INT returned for 100 yards for a TD right before half time. that was the turning point of the game. after that, the game changed.

and you are correct about the game against GB. Rodgers and company had that defense looking like a joke, and once that happened the packers defense had rothlisberger looking like nothing more then a varsity QB in HS. The steelers are not a good team unless that defense is 100% healthy.

James Harrison was the 100 yard pick 6 if my memory serves me right

[Nadine]

Reminder, no personal shots

I've removed some posts here

[Dustin]

I mean, he's not wrong.

[oldunclemark]

In theory, Geno Smith could be Top-100 for 2013..

 

 

Its a guess at the future

[Pombi9]

Wow... People are really thin-skinned around here...

First, the whiny "everyone thinks RG3/WIlson is better than Luck" thread, now this one...

Arians is correct. Luck agrees. End of thread.

Not everything is a grudge or personal vendetta, people....

Around here? You do realize there are 2 different NFL.com Articles about this from seperate authors and more than one video on their website. Would be silly not to post it here. If anyone has thin skin it is the writers who have made this a headline more than once. I really don't see how this thread is whiny. It is linked to more than one NFL article and simply quotes those authors. If you dont want to discuss it than don't but don't come in here and call the people who do "whiny".

[Pombi9]

He's not talking from a fan's perspective. He doesn't rank Luck on potential...he ranks him on accomplishments. And using that standard, he is definitely correct. However, he'd be lying through his teeth if he said Andrew doesnt have a greater upside than Rapelisburger ever had. Or that Andrew's football I.Q. isn't overwhelmingly higher. The fact is they (Pittsburgh) had to dumb down the playbook for Ben. The exact opposite happened with Andrew.

 

 

 

??? I was unaware of that.

 

 

 

Arians is a straight shooter....and from a certain legitimate perspective he gave a straight-forward answer. IMO there's nothing to see here.

Too bad that is not the criteria for this discussion and it is about what the player did in 2012....  

If that were true the list would be very, very different. Mojo would be much higher and the whole list would be shaken up. If you read the article it is not about Big Ben being Better overall than Andrew but being ranked higher on a top 100 list.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Too bad that is not the criteria

 

Yeah, too bad he didn't understand that.

[Pombi9]

So now you understand.

You are so condescending it is unbelievable. This topic did not need a moderator until your arrival. Just sad.

Have you ever seen Bill Belicheck being asked questions by the media? You are acting as if he was lucky to be on NFL network and had to give them something good for their precious time. It is the other way around, they were lucky to have him and he choose to answer those questions and probably knew they were coming before hand.

[Nadine]

And I'm back

Seriously how are you guys finding ways to fight here?

personal disagreements/squabbles do not belong in threads and so I removed a couple more posts here.

 

I am not in the mood to issue warnings but I will if need be.

 

so simmer down please

[Mouthfire]

Around here? You do realize there are 2 different NFL.com Articles about this from seperate authors and more than one video on their website. Would be silly not to post it here. If anyone has thin skin it is the writers who have made this a headline more than once. I really don't see how this thread is whiny. It is linked to more than one NFL article and simply quotes those authors. If you dont want to discuss it than don't but don't come in here and call the people who do "whiny".

Well, posting about the poll and Arian's statement is one thing... which, of course, I'm totally fine with.. Assigning an ulterior motive to it (ie "Appears to me he went out of his way to make this argument.") is a completely different thing, and does bespeak of a bit of whininess.

You said it yourself: Bruce was just being honest. What, do you want him to lie about it? I'm pretty sure Luck doesn't want him to.

[Valpo2004]

Rings and Superbowls don't count in this discussion, but I'd still put Big Ben slightly ahead of Luck  

[Boozeking25]

I was just about to say 3/4 of this lol. and to prove a point on your comment about their defense.... that superbowl against AZ would have been Az superbowl championship if it was not for (i think Foote's INT, not sure on the player) that INT returned for 100 yards for a TD right before half time. that was the turning point of the game. after that, the game changed.

 

and you are correct about the game against GB. Rodgers and company had that defense looking like a joke, and once that happened the packers defense had rothlisberger looking like nothing more then a varsity QB in HS. The steelers are not a good team unless that defense is 100% healthy.

 

It was James Harrison who returned that 100 yard interception for a TD. I wouldn't say defense strictly won that game. After that, the Steelers defense  allowed a 64 yard TD by Larry Fitzgerald with 2:37 left on the clock in the 4th quarter to put the Cardinals on top. While it's 3 phases of the game (offense, defense & special teams) that all help contribute to a football win, it was Big Ben that orchestrated that 2 minute drive on offense to score and put his team over top. It doesn't get more clutch then that final drive in superbowl 43

 

While I do believe Luck will become a better QB than Big Ben, there's no comparison yet. While Big Ben is extremely underrated, he should not be compared to a rookie. No he's not strictly a pocket passer and no he hasn't had flashy numbers (stats) like some of the other elite QBs. The unquantifiable stat that isn't tracked for QBs is the clutch factor; can you depend on your QB to step up in those clutch moments. Big Ben has shown that throughout his career and that is a very over looked and VERY important component of the QB position.

 

Like I said, I believe Luck has the potential to be better than him and become an Elite QB, it's just too soon to compare him to Big Ben.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Superman

[GoColts8818]

Don't really care. I still wouldn't trade Andrew Luck for any QB in the league straight up.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Rings and Superbowls don't count in this discussion, but I'd still put Big Ben slightly ahead of Luck  

 

Forgive me but IMHO nobody can be watching the two and reasonably come to that conclusion. Pittsburgh's QB cannot accomplish anything without a defense and rushing attack.

 

For me, I'd take RGIII, Wilson and Kaepernick over Rapelisburger in a nanosecond, much less Andrew Luck.

[southwest1]

I mean, he's not wrong.

I just wish people would ask coaches/talent evaluators the question like this: Who ranks higher among QBs right now Big Ben or Luck? What criteria do you specifically to critique QBs? If Luck is not in the top tier of QBs right now, can he reach that elite plateau & if not now when do anticipate Luck making the leap forward in his game? The 2nd year? The 3rd year? How do you define elite? 1 SB? 2 SBs? Multiple Playoff wins? Multiple ProBowl selections? A significant drop in interceptions that lowers each new season? Superb safety & cornerback manipulation in the secondary? The number of comeback victories from a huge scoring hole? Consecutive starting streaks? The fewest mental mistakes or knowing when to run the clock out vs sling the ball everywhere? Always taking what the defense gives you? Encouragement in the huddle of all your team mates regardless of the current score & making all your other team mates believe they too are elite at any given moment?

Analysts in the NFL are rarely asked to qualify their assessment remarks for some reason which always baffles me...

[Valpo2004]

Forgive me but IMHO nobody can be watching the two and reasonably come to that conclusion. Pittsburgh's QB cannot accomplish anything without a defense and rushing attack.

 

For me, I'd take RGIII, Wilson and Kaepernick over Rapelisburger in a nanosecond, much less Andrew Luck.

 

Big Ben 2012 in 13 games.

 

284 for 449 63.3% 3265 yards, 26 TD's, 8 Ints 

 

If you expand that out to 16 games based on his yards per game average over 13 games he's at 4018 yards.  Not to mention he would be at 32 TD's and maybe 2 more Int's.  

 

 

Andrew Luck 2012 in 16 games

 

339 of 627 54.1% 4374 yards, 23 TD's, 18 Ints 

 

Big Ben is doing something beyond just relying on the defense.

 

Oh yeah and Indianapolis ranks 22nd in rush yards per game.  Steelers where 26th. . . so it's not like his offense had a huge running threat to back him up.

 

I don't think the guy has as much potential as Andrew.  When Andrew hit's his prime I'm sure he'll be a lot better then Big Ben.  But was Andrew better last season?  No I don't think so.   

[coltsfansince65]

Before all is said and done Roethlisberger may have more rapes that rings too. I would certainly rank Andrew Luck as a much better person than him all around.

I was wondering how long tll somebody went there......smh

[southwest1]

I still wouldn't trade Andrew Luck for any QB in the league straight up.

Yes GC8818, the Redskins can have RG3, Seattle can have Russel Wilson, & Pittsburg can have Big Ben. I respect all the NFL field generals I mentioned previously here. But, I am perfectly content & satisfied with Andrew Luck who has size, speed, intelligence, doesn't panic if the pocket collapses, & he has selective amnesia even after he throws a pick.

 

Luck has already forgotten about the interception once he gets the ball back.  Luck usually operates efficiently & effectively with no lingering mental effects from poor decision making. Luck shakes off NFL picks like a duck or dog emerging from the water & I really admire that about Andrew actually. A rare trait to be born with just the clutch gene which he also has as well. In fact, all the QBs mentioned here possess that characteristic IMO. 

[Hans Moleman]

Arians is right. But that's hardly an insult for any rookie to say he shouldn't rank over Big Ben considering the dude's going to be in the HOF when he retires.

[braveheartcolt]

Before all is said and done Roethlisberger may have more rapes that rings too. I would certainly rank Andrew Luck as a much better person than him all around.

And what do you base that on? Personal experience, or what you see on TV, or what you read in the press or read on the internet?

[Mouthfire]

Big Ben 2012 in 13 games.

 

284 for 449 63.3% 3265 yards, 26 TD's, 8 Ints 

 

If you expand that out to 16 games based on his yards per game average over 13 games he's at 4018 yards.  Not to mention he would be at 32 TD's and maybe 2 more Int's.  

 

 

Andrew Luck 2012 in 16 games

 

339 of 627 54.1% 4374 yards, 23 TD's, 18 Ints 

 

Big Ben is doing something beyond just relying on the defense.

 

Oh yeah and Indianapolis ranks 22nd in rush yards per game.  Steelers where 26th. . . so it's not like his offense had a huge running threat to back him up.

 

I don't think the guy has as much potential as Andrew.  When Andrew hit's his prime I'm sure he'll be a lot better then Big Ben.  But was Andrew better last season?  No I don't think so.

Not to mention Roethisberger was garnering serious consideration for MVP last year, along with Peterson and Manning....

[Stephen]

Big ben isnt that good of a qb his first three years the defense and running game bailed him out. Year one he had 17 tds 11 ints then he had 17 tds 9 ints then the third year he regressed to 18 tds 23 ints before finally having a more productive year stat wise

[braveheartcolt]

Big Ben 2012 in 13 games.

 

284 for 449 63.3% 3265 yards, 26 TD's, 8 Ints 

 

If you expand that out to 16 games based on his yards per game average over 13 games he's at 4018 yards.  Not to mention he would be at 32 TD's and maybe 2 more Int's.  

 

 

Andrew Luck 2012 in 16 games

 

339 of 627 54.1% 4374 yards, 23 TD's, 18 Ints 

 

Big Ben is doing something beyond just relying on the defense.

 

Oh yeah and Indianapolis ranks 22nd in rush yards per game.  Steelers where 26th. . . so it's not like his offense had a huge running threat to back him up.

 

I don't think the guy has as much potential as Andrew.  When Andrew hit's his prime I'm sure he'll be a lot better then Big Ben.  But was Andrew better last season?  No I don't think so.   

I agree 50%, but we all saw what Luck did last year, the TD/INT/%Completed was only half the story. There is no stat for clutch.

[shakedownstreet]

[Holden89]

I don't see the issue. If this were a CAREER list, I would agree. However, it is top 100 of 2013. Meaning how good do you think they will be in 2013...

I would not be surprised AT ALL if Luck has a better year in 2013 then Roethlisberger....

[Carlos Danger]

BA is probably just trying to combat the perception that "anybody could've coached Luck to 11 wins"... We will see how he does in the desert...

[Valpo2004]

I agree 50%, but we all saw what Luck did last year, the TD/INT/%Completed was only half the story. There is no stat for clutch.

 

Oh I agree, and that's likely what got Luck ranked ahead of Rothlisburger.  But to say Rothlisburger isn't anybody without his defense.  That's not right.  

[seeblu]

Bruce is simply showing his loyalty to a QB he coached for 8 years in Pitt.  If Arians rule of how good a QB is, depends on how many SB rings he has, then Big Ben is a better QB than Peyton, who only has one ring and better than Dan Marino who doesn't have a ring.

 

IMO, Big Ben never has been an elite QB.  Good yes, but with the Steeler running game and their defense, they have won games but it was the team that won the ring, not Ben.  

 

Of course I'm prejudiced, but given both men in their prime, Ben was never the QB that Andrew is and will become.  What Luck did last year, behind that O line and with one seasoned vet as a WR, Reggie Wayne, is beyond fantastic.   If Heyward Bey turns out to be the WR he can be, the Colts will be the most scary team in the NFL. 

 

An improved O line, an improved D line, an improved secondary.  This team is going to rock in 2013.  Ben who?

[Coltsman1788]

Any one upset about what Arians said is out of their minds.  Luck still has a lot to prove before we start putting him ahead of established veterans with Super Bowl rings on their fingers.  Let the kid finish developing first. 

[GoColts8818]

Any one upset about what Arians said is out of their minds.  Luck still has a lot to prove before we start putting him ahead of established veterans with Super Bowl rings on their fingers.  Let the kid finish developing first. 

I don't know about this whole subject.  If all Big Ben had was Super Bowl rings then I would be more willing to argue about Luck maybe being better than him or whatever because rings alone reflect a team accomplishment not a single players.  With that said, Big Ben has more than that.  He's proven to be a good QB in this league.  I don't put Big Ben in the elite QBs in the NFL right now just because I think Manning, Brady, Brees, and probably Rodgers are going to go down as some of the better QBs of all-time.  I do put Big Ben in the list as one of the better QBs of his era though and he would be at the top of the list of QBs right behind the elite ones probably right behind Eli IMO.  You are right Luck has NOT caught him yet.  That's what I think Arians was saying more or less.  It doesn't mean Luck doesn't have the chance to catch him one day.  I think sometimes we lose sight of that because we look at everything we think Luck can do and expect him to do and try to rank him on that.  Arians is ranking them based on what they have done not on what Luck COULD do. 

 

Like I said earlier in the thread though there isn't a QB in the league I would trade Andrew Luck for straight up because of his age and the potential he has to be great.  With that said I don't get the impression that was what Arians was being asked though.