It's a different defense..........

[Jay Kirk]

Fans have started to buy the media hype of the NFL being an offensive league and to some extent it is true, but when the playoffs role around it it almost always the teams with good to great defense's that win. The Pats are a prime example of this, they used to be unstoppable in the playoffs practically because they played with a formidable defense. Every since they went soft and started trying to win with all offense, they haven't won crap come playoff time.

Your right on the money my Friend.Heres the kicker in a quite methodical way I believe Grigs and Pagano are building both,thats what is meant by Build the Monster  I know you as well as Brent will agree this starts in the trenches OL & DL,not that anything else is being neglected here,because its not,I as well as yourself and Brent are able to see the vision of this franchise and what they are building,IMO with a few and I repeat just a very few things falling into place,we are already there,yes I will say it this team is going to flat out be a SB  contender not in 2 more years but this year mark my words tell me when im wrong

[Balzer40]

Your right on the money my Friend.Heres the kicker in a quite methodical way I believe Grigs and Pagano are building both,thats what is meant by Build the Monster  I know you as well as Brent will agree this starts in the trenches OL & DL,not that anything else is being neglected here,because its not,I as well as yourself and Brent are able to see the vision of this franchise and what they are building,IMO with a few and I repeat just a very few things falling into place,we are already there,yes I will say it this team is going to flat out be a SB  contender not in 2 more years but this year mark my words tell me when im wrong

 

 

 

I'm in complete agreement with you my friend.

[TKnight24]

Well, I for one can't wait until the season.... actually the preseason to start

[Jay Kirk]

Well, I for one can't wait until the season.... actually the preseason to start

With ya chomping at the bit

[BrentMc11]

With ya chomping at the bit

Just looked 17 days....4 hours and 55 minutes until the draft...but who is counting

[Jay Kirk]

Just looked 17 days....4 hours and 55 minutes u

 

 

Just looked 17 days....4 hours and 55 minutes until the draft...but who is counting

:hmm: ME :wave: 

[deano]

I will say it this team is going to flat out be a SB  contender not in 2 more years but this year mark my words tell me when im wrong

I think they will be a bit better this year, but with some wise choices......... SB favorite the following year.....

I think we will still be short the dominating WR that this team needs as well as an excellent pass rusher...

But....

I am of course, hoping for THIS year

[smittywerb]

We play in a division with cj2k, Mjd, and Arian foster.

Take care of business at home first.

[NewEra]

You think the ravens ever gave up 375 yards rushing? I hope we don't see teams running the ball all over us and keeping it out of our offenses hands anymore! That's all I know!

[funktacious2]

"Bend but don't Win, " 

[dgambill]

Great defense and a great qb that can sustain drives are what I believe win championships. I mean you have to have SOME balance. The first Ravens SB and the Bucs SB teams were GREAT defenses that won despite their offense being fairly weak. Modern days you need a top 10 defense and a clutch qb to win it all. If offense was all that mattered we would have seen the Rams win multiple SBs, Colts win multiple, and then over the last few years NE win the rest. Fact is...you need a great defense and a qb that can give you good performances in the clutch. Look at the Steelers, Ravens, Giants, NE during the first part of the decade I mean great defenses and a qb that can deliver to me will win you more SBs than a high powered offense that has no defense....according to most peoples definition Brady should never have won the first 3 SBs and should have won like the last 6. It isn't just about offense. Offense wins in the regular season....in the post-season....it takes good to great defense and a qb that delivers...like Eli on his runs, Flacco did, Big Ben, and Brady had during his 3 SBs. It isn't that you need an elite offense...you just need a great leader (qb) on offense to get it done when it matters. The defense will put you in position to win the game if that guy can come through. If you have a terrible defense...it just puts sooo much pressure on the offense to be perfect no matter how great a qb (and we have seen two of the greatest of all time fail over and over recently in Manning/Brady) that its almost impossible to carry the team through the toughest stretch of any sport. If it was just offense we would have seen NE and the Colts who have had record setting offenses over the last several years win it all....its a failed logic. 

[Malakai432]

Well, I for one can't wait until the season.... actually the preseason to start

Yep I'm more than pumped for the preseason.

[wig]

Going back to 2000, there is only one team that won the Super Bowl that didn't have a really good defense and that was the Colts. Just so happens that was the yr. that the Colts actually decided to play great defense through the playoffs and it's the only reason why we won the super bowl.

 

2012 Ravens - Great defense

2011 Giants - very good defense

2010 Packers - good defense that yr.. not so good since and they haven't sniffed the super bowl even though they are great on offense.

2009 Saints - pretty good defense that yr..

2008 Steelers - great defense

2007 Giants - very good defense

2006 Colts - already talked about

2005 Steelers - Great defense

2004 Pats - back when they still had a very good defense

2003 - Pats - see above

2002 - Tampa - Great defense

2001 - Pats - see above again

2000 - Ravens - great defense

 

Sorry, but defense still absolutely wins in the playoffs and plays a huge part in winning the super bowl.

You can't just say arbitrarily that a defense is good or not good. For example NO was 25th in defense that year not 'pretty good'.

[will426]

You can't just say arbitrarily that a defense is good or not good. For example NO was 25th in defense that year not 'pretty good'.

your point is true but if I'm not mistaken that def led the league in turnovers that year which still makes them a "good defense"

[NewColtsFan]

 (I'm old, fat, and slow)

 

 

Hmmmmmm???????

 

I wonder......

 

Did I just find my identical twin separated at birth?!?!?

 

Inquiring minds want to know?!    (On the NEXT Jerry Springer!!!)

[chad72]

You can't just say arbitrarily that a defense is good or not good. For example NO was 25th in defense that year not 'pretty good'.

 

 

Recently, what has been happening is that a team that manages to buck its trend from the regular season to the postseason once it is in seems to do well in the playoffs.

 

Case in point, 2011 Pats. Bottom of league in pass D but when it came to the postseason, they were middle of the road and not the worst. Giants were worst in run O in 2011, then they are tops in time of possession when it came to the playoffs and that helped out their D that did not give more than 20 pts in both their 2007 & 2011 runs. Saints were tops in turnovers consistently and they took that up a notch in the playoffs too with all those turnovers vs Vikes in the NFCCG and the critical one vs the Colts. Even recently, Ravens were not tops on D in the regular season, they were middle of the road but they managed to limit Peyton to 21 pts and Brady to 13 pts when it mattered.

 

We all know about the 2006 colts and how they bucked the trend in the playoffs, right?

[Tark The Shark]

Walden, RJF, Franklin, Toler, Landry, Sidbury were all brought in to be role players, some have more important roles than others.

 

Grigson is building a strong defense through FA, which is something Polian rarely did. 

 

The Jets game should have been a win for us except for Shonn Greene torching us. Also we have to play MJD, Foster, and CJ/Greene twice a year now. We need a strong run defense to win those games.

[John Waylon]

So wait, we can't have both?

[Balzer40]

You can't just say arbitrarily that a defense is good or not good. For example NO was 25th in defense that year not 'pretty good'.

 

 

 

Much like the Colts in the yr. they won the super bowl, the Saints defense showed up and played great in the playoffs. That helped them win the super bowl, just like it did the Colts. The Colts defense was awful all yr. till the playoffs and then they played lights out and it's the only reason they won it all that yr..

[ruksak]

Brilliant OP Deano.

 

You're making it rain with +1 votes. 

 

Good stuff and good job highlighting one of several culture changes that the fanbase must adjust to. 

[ruksak]

So wait, we can't have both?

Well...we can and we likely will. 

 

What Deano was highlighting was, in the past, we have most certainly not had both. As a matter of fact, the only time I ever felt we did have both was during a 4 game stretch in the 2006 post-season. We all remember what that led to, right? 

 

We didn't have the scheme nor the personnel to play the run effectively, consistently. Now we have the personnel to play the run, and a scheme that should allow great pass rushing. Before we were small and fast with a defeatist scheme

(4-3 cover-2).

 

Now we're bigger and the scheme allows for deception to provide an easement to the opposing QB. 

 

Just think of all the times we've seen Freeney spin himself right out of run defense position in an effort to get to the passer on a running play. 

 

Them days is done, son. 

[unvrsty07]

I thought the reason we finally won the superbowl was because our qb finally didn't choke in the playoffs. But as it turns out it was a mixture of our offense and defense playing to their full potential and not choking.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/playoffs.htm

[Rich Cannon]

Been battling the Walden and Hughes haters way to much....

 

I for one feel that the days of the "Cover Nobody," "Bend but don't Win, " and  Prevent a Victory are shall we say in 'good riddance' mode?  Larry Coyer still makes me physically ill whether it was his fault, Polian or the Ghost of Cover 2 Past 

 

Deano, lets go to the draft, get someone weapons for Pagano to utilize....getting square pegs in the squares and circular pegs as well in their full and upright position.  This team has some serious motors on it.  Let the coaches teach and coach.....lets seeif these boys can hunt.  I for one love the off-season to this point, and after the draft am ready to go to battle with our Indianapolis Colts!!!            

 

I think im going to buy a Larry Coyer Bobble Head

[wig]

Much like the Colts in the yr. they won the super bowl, the Saints defense showed up and played great in the playoffs. That helped them win the super bowl, just like it did the Colts. The Colts defense was awful all yr. till the playoffs and then they played lights out and it's the only reason they won it all that yr..

I know that. That doesn't mean they had a good defense, it means they played well in the playoffs. Going down the line saying 'good, good, very good' is meaningless. Your point wasn't who played well in the playoffs, it was who had a good defense that season.

[Balzer40]

I know that. That doesn't mean they had a good defense, it means they played well in the playoffs. Going down the line saying 'good, good, very good' is meaningless. Your point wasn't who played well in the playoffs, it was who had a good defense that season.

 

 

 

Maybe I didn't word it the way I wanted it come across, but my point was that defense played a key role in each teams ability to win in the playoffs and ultimately a super bowl. 

[wig]

Maybe I didn't word it the way I wanted it come across, but my point was that defense played a key role in each teams ability to win in the playoffs and ultimately a super bowl.

If that was your point why would you specifically point the Colts out saying their defense wasn't very good but stepped it up in the playoffs? If your point was playoff defense there is no reason to mention them specifically.

Either way, getting hot at the end is what really matters using recent history.

[Balzer40]

If that was your point why would you specifically point the Colts out saying their defense wasn't very good but stepped it up in the playoffs? If your point was playoff defense there is no reason to mention them specifically.

Either way, getting hot at the end is what really matters using recent history.

 

 

Sure there a reason. The defense won that super bowl for them that yr.. They were spectacular in that playoff run and if they didn't step it up, the Colts still wouldn't have a Lombardi in Indy.

[chad72]

I thought the reason we finally won the superbowl was because our qb finally didn't choke in the playoffs. But as it turns out it was a mixture of our offense and defense playing to their full potential and not choking.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/clt/playoffs.htm

 

Very good link!!! As you can see from those numbers, we can all obviously see how much we had to win despite woeful ST.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/playoffs.htm

 

 

Around the same time, you can see Colts have only 2 wins when the offense had a negative output (both ironically came during our SB run during 2 out of our 4 wins) while the Patriots had 5 (all 3 games in the 2001 playoffs, the D carried them despite negative outputs from the O in the above link). Again, goes back to how much more dependent we were on the offensive side of the team when compared to good playoff teams that the Patriots are clearly a barometer for, IMO.

[unvrsty07]

Very good link!!! As you can see from those numbers, we can all obviously see how much we had to win despite woeful ST.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/playoffs.htm

 

 

Around the same time, you can see Colts have only 2 wins when the offense had a negative output (both ironically came during our SB run during 2 out of our 4 wins) while the Patriots had 5 (all 3 games in the 2001 playoffs, the D carried them despite negative outputs from the O in the above link). Again, goes back to how much more dependent we were on the offensive side of the team when compared to good playoff teams that the Patriots are clearly a barometer for, IMO.

 

I found that link this morning. Its pretty cool. I did not read much into their methodology but in any event its still cool! lol

[John Waylon]

I for one feel that the days of the "Cover Nobody," "Bend but don't Win, " and  Prevent a Victory are shall we say in 'good riddance' mode?  Larry Coyer still makes me physically ill whether it was his fault, Polian or the Ghost of Cover 2 Past 

 

 

In all honesty, those teams were built capable of winning. While the Cover 2 grew old and ineffective over the decade, let us not forget something very important:

 

We were the winningest team of the 2000's with that system.

 

No team won more games during that decade than we did. Not the mighty Patriots, not the heralded Steelers, and certainly no NFC team. 

 

What we didn't do was maintain that standard of winning in the post-season. 

 

And quite honestly, I've never believed that to be scheme-related. I believe that was philosophy-related. 

 

"Do what we do". The mantra we lived and died by under Dungy. We played our style of game, and if it suited us, fine, if not, fine, we were doing it either way. We were lucky enough to get all the pieces to makes it work for a long time. 

 

When the playoffs started, however, nothing changed. We played with the same urgency, as in, a complete lack of, and we did nothing at all different. We treated every playoff game under Dungy the exact same as we did every regular season game we played. We didn't prepare any differently, we didn't throw any wrinkles in, the teams under Dungy didn't even get excited about being in the playoffs.

 

Other teams come out and played like their season was on the line, because, well, it was. They intensified their games, they changed up their routine. 

 

We didn't. It was just another game to us, it was the one game they simply could not lose to them. 

 

I don't blame scheme near as much for our failure and lack of playoff success as I do the Dungy mentality we adhered to unquestioningly. The Dungy mentality was entirely weak and defeated by the playoff mentality of other teams. 

[Puck]

Of all the off season signings, The One signing that has me hyped is Mr. Laron Landry. For those who don't or haven't followed my dude, He was paired with arguably the brightest up and coming Safety shawn taylor (From.. The U) and has been something to be had at 220 4.4 speed. Will give us a play maker, Not ball hawk like ED REED but definitely an Identity and aggressor similar to troy Pala (Steelers) provides. minus the injury ..*Prays to GOD* or Brian Dawkins for you older heads (Fans)

[BrentMc11]

In all honesty, those teams were built capable of winning. While the Cover 2 grew old and ineffective over the decade, let us not forget something very important:

 

We were the winningest team of the 2000's with that system.

 

No team won more games during that decade than we did. Not the mighty Patriots, not the heralded Steelers, and certainly no NFC team. 

 

What we didn't do was maintain that standard of winning in the post-season. 

 

And quite honestly, I've never believed that to be scheme-related. I believe that was philosophy-related. 

 

"Do what we do". The mantra we lived and died by under Dungy. We played our style of game, and if it suited us, fine, if not, fine, we were doing it either way. We were lucky enough to get all the pieces to makes it work for a long time. 

 

When the playoffs started, however, nothing changed. We played with the same urgency, as in, a complete lack of, and we did nothing at all different. We treated every playoff game under Dungy the exact same as we did every regular season game we played. We didn't prepare any differently, we didn't throw any wrinkles in, the teams under Dungy didn't even get excited about being in the playoffs.

 

Other teams come out and played like their season was on the line, because, well, it was. They intensified their games, they changed up their routine. 

 

We didn't. It was just another game to us, it was the one game they simply could not lose to them. 

 

I don't blame scheme near as much for our failure and lack of playoff success as I do the Dungy mentality we adhered to unquestioningly. The Dungy mentality was entirely weak and defeated by the playoff mentality of other teams. 

Dungy's Tampa 2 was effective, but no matter how hard we played it was still 4th qter comebacks....37-34.....high scoring close games.  The effectiveness of this defense is virtually null and void today.  

 

However your point is well taken.  Nice post.

[chad72]

In all honesty, those teams were built capable of winning. While the Cover 2 grew old and ineffective over the decade, let us not forget something very important:

 

We were the winningest team of the 2000's with that system.

 

No team won more games during that decade than we did. Not the mighty Patriots, not the heralded Steelers, and certainly no NFC team. 

 

What we didn't do was maintain that standard of winning in the post-season. 

 

And quite honestly, I've never believed that to be scheme-related. I believe that was philosophy-related. 

 

"Do what we do". The mantra we lived and died by under Dungy. We played our style of game, and if it suited us, fine, if not, fine, we were doing it either way. We were lucky enough to get all the pieces to makes it work for a long time. 

 

When the playoffs started, however, nothing changed. We played with the same urgency, as in, a complete lack of, and we did nothing at all different. We treated every playoff game under Dungy the exact same as we did every regular season game we played. We didn't prepare any differently, we didn't throw any wrinkles in, the teams under Dungy didn't even get excited about being in the playoffs.

 

Other teams come out and played like their season was on the line, because, well, it was. They intensified their games, they changed up their routine. 

 

We didn't. It was just another game to us, it was the one game they simply could not lose to them. 

 

I don't blame scheme near as much for our failure and lack of playoff success as I do the Dungy mentality we adhered to unquestioningly. The Dungy mentality was entirely weak and defeated by the playoff mentality of other teams. 

 

 

When all the marbles are on the line, doing what we do predictably does not work. Good playoff Os make your D bend AND break. Good playoff Ds try to keep the scores manageable to give their O a chance to win. 

 

4 games - 2007 Chargers, 2008 Chargers, 2009 Saints, 2010 Jets, we had 4th qtr. leads in all of them but could never get that big stop or turnover on defense. Good playoff Ds consistently make stops and step it up when needed.

 

Cases in point:

 

1. Giants shut out the Pats after the Pats went up 17-9 in 3rd qtr. of SB 46.

2. 2012 Ravens stuffed out the Pats after the Pats were up 13-7 at the half, and the Pats did not score again in the 2012 AFCCG

3. Pats stuffed out the Chargers in the 4th qtr. of the 2007 AFCCG

 

Get a D that can give your QB the ball back when he needs it, period, and good things will happen if you give your QB enough chances.