Luck Era vs Manning Era

[NewEra]

No, I lead the forum in getting blamed for it. This silly thread here should have been locked a long time ago. I do enjoy watching you guys bicker though. What a united fanbase.

No seriously, on pacersdigest I'm pretty sure everyone there can't stand the guy. While I'm not a member there I have read the forums for years. His posting style is literally just to * everyone off. I do agree with you on the manning/bronco fans as well.

[Gramz]

try not to get this thread locked. you lead the forum in that category

Dang...  I thought I owned that Crown....      

[Qwiz]

No seriously, on pacersdigest I'm pretty sure everyone there can't stand the guy. While I'm not a member there I have read the forums for years. His posting style is literally just to tick everyone off. I do agree with you on the manning/bronco fans as well.

Oh. He used the same username lol and if so, I guess some people do just get a kick out of ticking people off.

[southwest1]

I had better leave now before I say or do something dumb & rash...Breathe & count to 10...Nobody slams my beloved Colts or my friends without a response from me...Okay, I'm going. I'm going...

[House]

No, I lead the forum in getting blamed for it. This silly thread here should have been locked a long time ago. I do enjoy watching you guys bicker though. What a united fanbase.

Loses all its sting when you prefer a rival teams board to your own teams board lol.

If someone wants to have different opinions then they also have to stick to them. Nothing wrong with dissenting views, but that also doesn't mean you should be immune from those who disagree.

[Qwiz]

Loses all its sting when you prefer a rival teams board to your own teams board lol.

Lol do you know how many people are on the Texans site? It's madness and getting through posts there is ridiculous. I love my red and blue lol but this site is very user friendly and, believe it or not, I like the sensible people around here. Only two or three guys here that I, for some strange reason, just simply can't get along with lol.

As far as being immune to those who disagree, blatantly attacking a guy and calling him a troll isn't the right solution to dealing with different opinions.

[House]

Lol do you know how many people are on the Texans site? It's madness and getting through posts there is ridiculous. I love my red and blue lol but this site is very user friendly and, believe it or not, I like the sensible people around here. Only two or three guys here that I, for some strange reason, just simply can't get along with lol.

As far as being immune to those who disagree, blatantly attacking a guy and calling him a troll isn't the right solution to dealing with different opinions.

Well if people think he's trolling and he's not making attempts to justify himself other than repeating the same rhetoric over and over, then that's what happens.

There are plenty on here who disagree and not called trolls.

And no I can't say I have ever visited a texans board, but can't be too great if your always here ;)

[Qwiz]

Well if people think he's trolling and he's not making attempts to justify himself other than repeating the same rhetoric over and over, then that's what happens.

There are plenty on here who disagree and not called trolls.

And no I can't say I have ever visited a texans board, but can't be too great if your always here ;)

I think he attempted to explain himself when he mentioned the underthrowing/routes thing, and it's obvious he's still hurt from the Manning decision. Like I said previously there are a lot here that still are, though I would tend to agree that it's not fair at all taking it out on the young guy. Believe it or not I preferred watching 12 to Griff in college and I was torn that he was going to a division rival (  ) but I still think he's a great kid. Those two guys I mentioned...their favorite word is troll, so avoid getting into disagreements with them at all costs lol. But the Texans board is great, I just can't get into it for some reason lol. I'll visit occasionally still and see how the home crowd's doing.

[House]

I think he attempted to explain himself when he mentioned the underthrowing/routes thing, and it's obvious he's still hurt from the Manning decision. Like I said previously there are a lot here that still are, though I would tend to agree that it's not fair at all taking it out on the young guy. Believe it or not I preferred watching 12 to Griff in college and I was torn that he was going to a division rival ( ) but I still think he's a great kid. Those two guys I mentioned...their favorite word is troll, so avoid getting into disagreements with them at all costs lol. But the Texans board is great, I just can't get into it for some reason lol. I'll visit occasionally still and see how the home crowd's doing.

I dunno if that's explaining himself really just saying the same negative things over and over. It's going to wear thin pretty quick so whatcha gonna do lol.

[OlBlu]

OlBlu doesn't know what he's taking about. Literally. He also thinks that we ran a WCO last year. I don't agree with his opinions,  don't think he's a troll. But you can see where people are coming from when he makes mis-informed opinions and goes out of his way in threads that don't have anything to do with Luck (this isn't the only thread) and say things like "O-line play doesn't matter" and that everybody else is making excuses. So far his sole purpose on the forum is to do nothing but criticize our QB. I don't think he's a troll, but he doesn't know what he's talking about and makes ridiculous, outlandish claims.

 

I don't think I said that the O-line doesn't matter. That is the foundation for everything.

[OlBlu]

Seriously? o-line protection makes no difference? We are not talking about Ryan Leaf here you know & Peyton Manning's rookie season wasn't bound for the Playoffs I can tell you at at 3-13 I believe. Are you saying that protection makes no difference in NFL game outcomes at all or that Luck isn't smart enough to grow, adapt, & evolve with each new season under his belt? Ultimately, if the WR & TE are any good they catch the ball in stride with the hands & pull the ball securely to their body. 

 

Excuses made by INDY fans? Is that the best non counter measure argument you've got? Frankly, it's weak in the logical rhetoric department if you ask me...Thanks for the comic relief...Just Kidding!

 

Have you considered the possibility that you are wrong in your assessment of Luck as a bust after only 1 season? 

 

I mean no disrespect OlBlu, but let's not act as if Andrew Luck isn't pulling his own weight following a living legend & getting to the post season in his 1st year as a starter. Thank you very much.

 

I am sure a good offensive line will help but it will take a while to put one together. I think those are the hardest positions to draft for or sign free agents for. I don't think Luck is a bust. I don't think he is as good as Wilson and RGIII and I don't think he ever will be. I will be delighted to be proven wrong. I was with the crowd that thought 2-4 wins was where we would end up last year. I was sure wrong about that. I don't mind being wrong when it means the team is doing well...

[chad72]

We were playing with house money in year 1 of Luck and made out like bandits because of the low expectations and like Luck said "we didn't know any different than winning" as a young unit.

 

Now, year 2, with offseason moves, and a playoff appearance under the belt, expectations will be higher. Sustaining a level of excellence is harder than getting there once. The next 2 years will tell us if this team can sustain with 2 more playoff appearances at a minimum because they have set higher standards to start off with than the Peyton era Colts, IMO.

[amfootball]

I am sure a good offensive line will help but it will take a while to put one together. I think those are the hardest positions to draft for or sign free agents for. I don't think Luck is a bust. I don't think he is as good as Wilson and RGIII and I don't think he ever will be. I will be delighted to be proven wrong. I was with the crowd that thought 2-4 wins was where we would end up last year. I was sure wrong about that. I don't mind being wrong when it means the team is doing well...

Are you basing your belief that RG and Wilson will be better solely on Luck's INTs? Just curious. He won more games than RG and as many as Wilson in year 1.

[OlBlu]

Are you basing your belief that RG and Wilson will be better solely on Luck's INTs? Just curious. He won more games than RG and as many as Wilson in year 1.

 

I think Luck was incredibly lucky to win that many games. I don't think he will repeat that this year unless that completion percentage goes way up. No, I am not that concerned about the INTs. I am more concerned about the low completion percentage and just about the worst QB rating in the entire NFL. Now, some of the apologists are going to site another stat that evaluates QBs differently because Luck rates high on that list. I still see everyone using the tried and true QB rating system. I think Wilson and RGIII will have great seasons again this year. Wilson is on the best of the three teams in my opinion and they got better. RGIII will have a great year too and so will exColt Garcon`.

[braveheartcolt]

Anyone who watched the last 4 minutes of the Lions game and never saw 'greatness' is either blind, stupid or has a hidden agenda.

[amfootball]

I think Luck was incredibly lucky to win that many games. I don't think he will repeat that this year unless that completion percentage goes way up. No, I am not that concerned about the INTs. I am more concerned about the low completion percentage and just about the worst QB rating in the entire NFL. Now, some of the apologists are going to site another stat that evaluates QBs differently because Luck rates high on that list. I still see everyone using the tried and true QB rating system. I think Wilson and RGIII will have great seasons again this year. Wilson is on the best of the three teams in my opinion and they got better. RGIII will have a great year too and so will exColt Garcon`.

Those are fair points. I don't think it is reasonable to expect him to have that many fourth quarter comebacks either. If he cuts down the INTs which most expect him to do than I think it is plausible to assume that he will will games outright. I also think the fact that he has to play the NFC West and a second place schedule as opposed to the last place schedule last year will also make 11 wins or more difficult. That being said, his team was the worse of the three. He did not have an Alfred Morris like RG or a stout D and run game that Wilson had. If the Colts improve the team which they should, then his job theoretically should get easier.

 

I believe the one QB that is in danger of having the biggest drop off is RG because he is coming off a major injury and because Shanny is going to ask him to change his game. I really think he could end up a lot like Vick and become indecisive in the pocket because he has been told not to run. Wilson has to contend with the niners so he will have to most likely get into the playoffs as a wild card again.

 

Lastly, Luck by far was playing with the greenest coaching staff. Niether Pagano or Arians had been HCs before. Shanny and Carroll are light years ahead so again I think Luck showed a ton in his first year especially in the intangibles department.

 

It will be fun to see everything play out.

[amfootball]

Anyone who watched the last 4 minutes of the Lions game and never saw 'greatness' is either blind, stupid or has a hidden agenda.

Or how about the entire second half against Green Bay?

[braveheartcolt]

Or how about the entire second half against Green Bay?

Fair point. He had many great moments (and some poor ones as well), but I just thought what he did was like Brady / Manning etc in their prime....when the ran in that final TD as the clock expired I just went 'wow'.....

[TheLobeck]

I think Luck was incredibly lucky to win that many games. I don't think he will repeat that this year unless that completion percentage goes way up. No, I am not that concerned about the INTs. I am more concerned about the low completion percentage and just about the worst QB rating in the entire NFL. Now, some of the apologists are going to site another stat that evaluates QBs differently because Luck rates high on that list. I still see everyone using the tried and true QB rating system. I think Wilson and RGIII will have great seasons again this year. Wilson is on the best of the three teams in my opinion and they got better. RGIII will have a great year too and so will exColt Garcon`.

(Mute computer before listening watching these)

 

All Luck...

http://youtu.be/PZNiqvaAMOs#t=2m02s

 

All Luck...

http://youtu.be/wLNo_xRJ66c#t=1m45s

 

All Luck...

http://youtu.be/dcsYquuLFfo#t=2m50s

 

Or MAYBE All Clutch...

[amfootball]

Fair point. He had many great moments (and some poor ones as well), but I just thought what he did was like Brady / Manning etc in their prime....when the ran in that final TD as the clock expired I just went 'wow'.....

I thought his second half of against Green Bay was stunning. He outscored Rodgers 21-6. His best half of football for the year against one of the best QBs. Just loved it. Liked the Detroit game as well. He has "it."  That's for sure.

[Callie]

Anyone who watched the last 4 minutes of the Lions game and never saw 'greatness' is either blind, stupid or has a hidden agenda.

 

That is when I realized he really has the "it" factor. He'd shown he could comeback with Green Bay, and this just proved it. I even had given up on that game, which I never do. Then bam. I was like OMG OMG, jumping up and down.

[Balzer40]

Those are fair points. I don't think it is reasonable to expect him to have that many fourth quarter comebacks either. If he cuts down the INTs which most expect him to do than I think it is plausible to assume that he will will games outright. I also think the fact that he has to play the NFC West and a second place schedule as opposed to the last place schedule last year will also make 11 wins or more difficult. That being said, his team was the worse of the three. He did not have an Alfred Morris like RG or a stout D and run game that Wilson had. If the Colts improve the team which they should, then his job theoretically should get easier.

 

I believe the one QB that is in danger of having the biggest drop off is RG because he is coming off a major injury and because Shanny is going to ask him to change his game. I really think he could end up a lot like Vick and become indecisvie in the pocket because he has been told not to run. Wilson has to contend with the niners so he will have to most likely get into the playoffs as a wild card again.

 

Lastly, Luck by far was playing with the greenest coaching staff. Niether Pagano or Arians had been HCs before. Shanny and Carroll are light years ahead so again I think Luck showed a ton in his first year especially in the intangibles department.

 

It will be fun to see everything play out.

 

 

 

+1.

 

I'd give you a like but I'm out. Very well stated and I think it's obvious that OIBlu is still a little butthurt that Manning is no longer the Colts QB and will find anything under the sun to come up with reasons to disparage Luck's play. As stated earlier in the thread, he obviously don't really know what he's talking about anyway because he thinks the Colts played a WCO last season.

 

RG3 will be lucky to start the season anyway and if/when he does play, IMO he's going to be in for a rude awakening. He absolutely will not have the same success he had last season because teams are going to have a better idea on how to defend him. His running ability is what made him successful, plus what Morris was able to do for him. Take RG3's running threat away or at least keep him in check and his effectiveness goes away.

 

We'll see, but I think Luck is the best out of the 3 and if I had to choose a 2nd place, it would be Wilson. Luck is going to have a much improved team around him as will Wilson. The Skins on the other hand haven't been able to do anything to improve. Some of the questions surrounding Luck will go away after next season. He's the best QB of the bunch IMO and that's not just being a homer.

[braveheartcolt]

That is when I realized he really has the "it" factor. He'd shown he could comeback with Green Bay, and this just proved it. I even had given up on that game, which I never do. Then bam. I was like OMG OMG, jumping up and down.

Nicely put lass. Well, time to fire up my Game Pass and watch that ending again........this has got me in the mood to see it again....

[Qwiz]

I think Luck was incredibly lucky to win that many games. I don't think he will repeat that this year unless that completion percentage goes way up. No, I am not that concerned about the INTs. I am more concerned about the low completion percentage and just about the worst QB rating in the entire NFL. Now, some of the apologists are going to site another stat that evaluates QBs differently because Luck rates high on that list. I still see everyone using the tried and true QB rating system. I think Wilson and RGIII will have great seasons again this year. Wilson is on the best of the three teams in my opinion and they got better. RGIII will have a great year too and so will exColt Garcon`.

I can actually see all three guys improving this season, as is natural. I still expect to see interceptions from 12 as well, and continued dominance from Wilson, as he has many tools around him. As you mentioned, I would not be surprised if he has the best career of the three. Griffin is (as I expected) making a superhuman recovery and I would not be surprsed to see him back on the field doing the razzle dazzle week one. It's going to be another good year of quarterback play.

[GoColts8818]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdnj1PMw01w

 

Nice Luck Highlight video from this season.

 

Luck has shown all the signs in the world of being the next great QB in this league after his rookie reason.  Yes he has areaes to improve on but what rookie doesn't?

 

For those making a big deal out of his INTs and completion % here are Manning's numbers after his rookie year

 

26 TDs 28 INTS 3739 yards with a 56.7 completion %.

 

Here are Lucks

 

23 TDs 18 INTS 4374 yards with a 54.1 completion %. 

 

I'd say Luck's number stack up just fine with Manning which till Cam Newton came along was regarded as the best rookie season any QB has ever had in the NFL.  Andrew Luck is not a finished project yet.  So trying to compare rookie Andrew Luck to MVP level Peyton Manning is not a fair or realistic comparison.  Like I've said before even Peyton Manning wasn't Peyton Manning when he first came into the NFL.  The Colts did not make the move to release Manning and go with Luck because they expected him to be as good as Manning day one.  They did it for the long term future of the franchise.  Come back in 5 years when Manning is about to retire and Luck will be coming into his prime and then try to argue the Colts made the wrong decision.  I don't know if Luck will end up being as good as Peyton was but he has shown all the signs you can want from a rookie QB that he can be a top level QB in this league.  He had several fourth quarter comebacks, lead this team to the playoffs as a rookie, and was almost lights out in the last two minutes of halves.  Just about anytime he had the ball in two minutes situations in a half he at least put the team in position to get points which is where a lot of QBs make mistakes.  He also showed growth from December on threw the playoffs he threw a total of six INTs over six games and just one of the last four games of that stretch. 

 

So no I am not worried about Luck's future he has shown no reason to be worried about him.  If people are they are either not paying attention or just trying to stir something up.  If it's the later its just better to ignore them.  If they aren't paying attention once what is really going is pointed out to them they ever have to accept it or just cling to their belief because they are stubborn.  Odds are if they do the later they wont change their mind so we are wasting our breath. 

[House]

I can actually see all three guys improving this season, as is natural. I still expect to see interceptions from 12 as well, and continued dominance from Wilson, as he has many tools around him. As you mentioned, I would not be surprised if he has the best career of the three. Griffin is (as I expected) making a superhuman recovery and I would not be surprsed to see him back on the field doing the razzle dazzle week one. It's going to be another good year of quarterback play.

You said you expect all three to improve, and then only complimented 2 out of the 3 lol.

Oh Texans fans

[braveheartcolt]

As the commentator said right after the Lions win..."wise beyond his years does not do him justice....."

[Qwiz]

You said you expect all three to improve, and then only complimented 2 out of the 3 lol.

Oh Texans fans

Oops...how could I have missed 12...?

[jvan1973]

You said you expect all three to improve, and then only complimented 2 out of the 3 lol.

Oh Texans fans

fear does weird things to people

[Qwiz]

fear does weird things to people

^^^^^ this guy You just love to close threads don't you

[jvan1973]

^^^^^ this guy You just love to close threads don't you

was i talking to you thread killer?

[Qwiz]

was i talking to you thread killer?

You were talking about me so now I am replying to you. Cause and effect. ;)

[chad72]

You were talking about me so now I am replying to you. Cause and effect. ;)

 

 

Sounds like MEOW!!! MEOW!!! :)

[Qwiz]

Sounds like MEOW!!! MEOW!!! :)

Lol yep it's a daily occurence.

[willysp]

Well, the other thing he leads the NFL besides turnovers is excuses made by Indy fans. I don't think those things will make any difference. I think he will still throw behind receivers and he will still come up short on long passes. But, we can all hope you are correct but doubt that you are....

 

Yeah - an O-line really doesn't matter - a good O-line never gives a QB time to setup and throw.

 

I also sense the Ignore button coming ..... I have run out of troll food.

[a06cc]

Since Peyton helped Andrew Luck shape his game in a since. I won't say totalled made him, because Luck brings his own game to the table. No QB will ever hold a candle to Peyton Manning though. Not just on the field, but off the field Peyton is a leader. He ability on the football field is something Luck will try to chase after. Luck might win more SB because of how our team is going to built around him. And the whole Luck playing with rookies and blah blah blah. Peyton paved the way for players like Andrew Luck. College players are coming a lot more prepared now in they were 10-15 years ago.

[willysp]

Since Peyton helped Andrew Luck shape his game in a since. I won't say totalled made him, because Luck brings his own game to the table. No QB will ever hold a candle to Peyton Manning though. Not just on the field, but off the field Peyton is a leader. He ability on the football field is something Luck will try to chase after. Luck might win more SB because of how our team is going to built around him. And the whole Luck playing with rookies and blah blah blah. Peyton paved the way for players like Andrew Luck. College players are coming a lot more prepared now in they were 10-15 years ago.

 

Can someone translate this, please?   TIA

[needanoline63]

Peyton manning is the greatest quarterback to ever play the game. Dude won games without a defense

[amfootball]

Since Peyton helped Andrew Luck shape his game in a since. I won't say totalled made him, because Luck brings his own game to the table. No QB will ever hold a candle to Peyton Manning though. Not just on the field, but off the field Peyton is a leader. He ability on the football field is something Luck will try to chase after. Luck might win more SB because of how our team is going to built around him. And the whole Luck playing with rookies and blah blah blah. Peyton paved the way for players like Andrew Luck. College players are coming a lot more prepared now in they were 10-15 years ago.

How did Peyton help Luck shape his game? The two were never on the same field together as far as I know and Luck plays a completely different style given his athleticism. And I believe Archie (Peyton's dad) said his son and Luck could not co-exist so together so I will have to disagree on this point.

 

In terms of your second point, I would imagine most fans here would rather have the rings than a great leader or spokesman. In the end, greatness is determined by the hardware and it is what every team and every player strives for. If Luck does win more than one SB his era will be considered more successful. All the other stuff is just window dressing.

 

In terms of Peyton paving for the way for college players? Exactly how has he done this? If anything, the running QBs like Cunningham, Vick, McNair have paved the way for the more untraditional style QBs like RG, Kaep, Wilson, etc. Peyton and the scores of other QBs before him are the traditional drop by guys. Colleges have not been cpying that the last 10-15 years, it was already there.

[Dustin]

.