Would you move Reed or Bethea to SS?

[NewEra]

I have questions about Nevis. I honestly think he could be traded for whatever we could get out of him. I like the kid but honestly don't think he really fits anywhere on our defense. He would be a really nice pickup for a 4-3 team searching for a gap penetrating DT. He's too short to play a prototypical 3-4 DE and too small to play the NT. I know we hypothetically play a "hybrid", but rarely do we actually play a true 4-3 alignment.

Yeah he's the only bummer in switching to the 3-4 hybrid. Love the dude, he has a non stop motor and think he will be a beast in a 4-3. I'm sure if pagano thinks we can use him he'll stay. If not it would be great to get some worth out of him. With moala coming on as strong as he was makes it easier at least.

[Superman]

 I have questions about Nevis. I honestly think he could be traded for whatever we could get out of him. I like the kid but honestly don't think he really fits anywhere on our defense. He would be a really nice pickup for a 4-3 team searching for a gap penetrating DT. He's too short to play a prototypical 3-4 DE and too small to play the NT. I know we hypothetically play a "hybrid", but rarely do we actually play a true 4-3 alignment.

 

Yeah, Nevis doesn't fit very well. He only got about half a season in the new scheme, so I'm not writing him off. Plus, he has a great motor. But we play a two-gap front, and he's a one-gap tackle. He's essentially a passing down tackle in our scheme, which means he has very limited opportunities.

 

I wouldn't get rid of him though. His cap hit is $717k in 2013, and $782k in 2014. We couldn't get more than a 5th rounder for him I don't think, and I'd just as soon keep him for such a small cap hit.

[Gavin]

Yeah, Nevis doesn't fit very well. He only got about half a season in the new scheme, so I'm not writing him off. Plus, he has a great motor. But we play a two-gap front, and he's a one-gap tackle. He's essentially a passing down tackle in our scheme, which means he has very limited opportunities.

 

I wouldn't get rid of him though. His cap hit is $717k in 2013, and $782k in 2014. We couldn't get more than a 5th rounder for him I don't think, and I'd just as soon keep him for such a small cap hit.

That 5th could be used much more wisely then keeping a guy that does not fit our scheme if its a small cap hit it adds nothing to the team , we did the same thing Freeney at a much more insane price, if a guy dont fit and he can be traded for even a 5th-6th or 7th round draft pick then it needs to be done, its about improving the roster, I have no doubts Grigson can find someone that can contribute and perhaps in a big way if the right guy fell to us in the 5th, I can think of a few players that are projected to go in the 5th that could improve our roster,

 

just my opinion, I dont believe in hanging onto a guy just for a body for depth when he does not fit the scheme, take the potential 5th, trade him bring in a player that can help the team at another position

[Superman]

That 5th could be used much more wisely then keeping a guy that does not fit our scheme if its a small cap hit it adds nothing to the team , we did the same thing Freeney at a much more insane price, if a guy dont fit and he can be traded for even a 5th-6th or 7th round draft pick then it needs to be done, its about improving the roster, I have no doubts Grigson can find someone that can contribute and perhaps in a big way if the right guy fell to us in the 5th, I can think of a few players that are projected to go in the 5th that could improve our roster,

 

just my opinion, I dont believe in hanging onto a guy just for a body for depth when he does not fit the scheme, take the potential 5th, trade him bring in a player that can help the team at another position

 

Nevis is a proven player. A fifth rounder might not make the the roster. I agree that Nevis isn't a good fit for our defense, but he can still contribute.

[Balzer40]

Yeah he's the only bummer in switching to the 3-4 hybrid. Love the dude, he has a non stop motor and think he will be a beast in a 4-3. I'm sure if pagano thinks we can use him he'll stay. If not it would be great to get some worth out of him. With moala coming on as strong as he was makes it easier at least.

 

 

Yeah, Nevis doesn't fit very well. He only got about half a season in the new scheme, so I'm not writing him off. Plus, he has a great motor. But we play a two-gap front, and he's a one-gap tackle. He's essentially a passing down tackle in our scheme, which means he has very limited opportunities.

 

I wouldn't get rid of him though. His cap hit is $717k in 2013, and $782k in 2014. We couldn't get more than a 5th rounder for him I don't think, and I'd just as soon keep him for such a small cap hit.

 

 

 

Nevis is a heck of a player that unfortunately for him is now in a system that does not fit his skills. I do think though that if we could get a 5th rd. pick for him, that it would be wise to go ahead and do it. No sense in keeping a guy around that don't fit in anywhere when we could add a player that is drafted specifically for our system. Plus its hurting his career too. Sometimes you need to give a player his best opportunity to succeed, even if that means sending him to another team.

[ColtJ82]

Didn't Bethea and Sanders alternate the FS/SS role back in the day? 

Yes and no. Cover 2 is a little different because they both play a deep zone. It kind of depends on the what defense gives. In a cover 2 it is more left safety and right safety; instead of FS and SS. In a cover 1 the SS typically plays in the box or covers someone out of the backfield or a TE.

[Gavin]

Nevis is a proven player. A fifth rounder might not make the the roster. I agree that Nevis isn't a good fit for our defense, but he can still contribute.

sure he can contribute some but he easily replaceable, I wouldn't say he is proven, he has proven to have a motor. I'd take my chances if I was GM on a guy I thought could contribute in the system more in the 5th

[Superman]

sure he can contribute some but he easily replaceable, I wouldn't say he is proven, he has proven to have a motor. I'd take my chances if I was GM on a guy I thought could contribute in the system more in the 5th

 

He's certainly more proven than whatever 5th rounder you might have your eye on. In that sense, I'd rather keep Nevis and let him contribute.

[Superman]

Nevis is a heck of a player that unfortunately for him is now in a system that does not fit his skills. I do think though that if we could get a 5th rd. pick for him, that it would be wise to go ahead and do it. No sense in keeping a guy around that don't fit in anywhere when we could add a player that is drafted specifically for our system. Plus its hurting his career too. Sometimes you need to give a player his best opportunity to succeed, even if that means sending him to another team.

 

To the bolded, I'm not willing to go that far. I don't think our system maximizes his ability, but he has opportunities to contribute as is. Not downplaying the potential value of a 5th round pick (Vick Ballard), but a bird in the hand, right? Nevis is a talented player, and even as a misfit in this system, he can earn his keep. I don't think we should be so anxious to get rid of talented players just because they aren't the ideal player for your system.

[Gavin]

He's certainly more proven than whatever 5th rounder you might have your eye on. In that sense, I'd rather keep Nevis and let him contribute.

sure he is and I would hope he would be since the 2013 class has not even stepped on the field yet, I get what your sayin but its a bit of a common sense deal to me, improve the roster, trim the fat especially when he has landed on IR two years in a row now, Im not declaring the guy the next Bob Sanders but he is depth nothing more and can be replaced by any number of guys, Lawrence Guy came right in and produced as much as Nevis

[lollygagger8]

Ummm....anyone but Zibs? I'll go insane if he's starting next year.

[theanarchist]

If you want to fix the SS problem, taking a gamble on Bethea is not the best way to do it, a few players I would look at for SS 

 

Shawn Williams(4th choice)

Ray Ray Armstrong (provided he actually has his head on straight, I'd gamble on him in the 6th or 7th)(5th choice)

Cooper Taylor(2nd choice)

Shamarko Thomas although I cant help but think he is a future Bob Sanders waiting to happen (3rd choice)

Robert Lester(top choice for me)

 

 

This will likely all be a moot point, Zb will get another shot, he has 2 years left on his deal, Im looking at Utahs Brian Blechen in next years draft to, although I'd love to know if the coaches think Brandan Bishop could play SS, he has the size

 

Blechen highlights

 

:27 Seconds...Did I mention Bishop can hit to on top of his ball skills? 

Blechen looks like a hitter but he looks like he plays with his pads too high. NFL running backs will run him over. He looks aggressive tho. Nice video on both

[Jules]

From Bethea apparently:

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2013/2/28/4028616/wild-weekend-view-from-the-inside-of-the-nfl-combine

I told him how Colts fans are excited about all the cap space this season and how it appears that they will be spenders in free agency. "Play GM for a second and tell me who you would sign on defense."

He hesitated.

"You don't have to give me name. What position would you go for?"

He smiled. "Well, first, let me give you the political answer and say 'whoever can help us win'. If I was going to give you a name... I don't know. I love Ed Reed."

I smiled because I want the Colts to sign Ed Reed. "I talked to Reggie Wayne about him yesterday," I said. "Don't you guys play the same position? Would you slide over if they signed him?"

Bethea smiled again and said, "Man, I play SAFETY. I'll slide over, play in the box, whatever. Whatever it takes. I'll let Ed Reed do his thing."

This was good stuff. I know that Reggie Wayne and Antoine Bethea aren't the ones that will be signing free agents, but if Wayne starts recruiting and Bethea willing to 'do whatever' it seems like a real possibility.

I said goodbye to Antoine and finished my lunch.

[NewColtsFan]

Bethea is a smart, classy guy.

 

But just because he's willing to move to SS, doesn't mean he can play it all that well....

 

What if we sign Ed Reed, and move Bethea...   and Bethea turns out not to be a very good SS??    Then what??

 

I keep coming back to comments from Grigson and especially Irsay.......    "No quick fixes!"

 

Hard for me to see the Colts signing Ed Reed....     just not sure it makes sense for us....

 

But, again,  I trust Grigson....

[UKColt13]

The biggest reason i could see Reed coming to Indy is because of his personal ties to us. Not so much about our needs as a team.

 

He has said Pags is like a father to him and Reggie is his best friend and college roommate. Personally for Ed, I see Indy as the perfect place to spend the twilight of his career.

 

I wouldn't be against picking him up on a 1-2 year deal.

[theanarchist]

I would say we just forget about Reed and sign(or draft) a real SS. I do not understand the logic of signing a free agent just to move a guy to play out of position. Doesn't make any sense to me, especially seeing how Reed is almost done with his career. I don't see it as a smart way to build a team.

Well I do. Reed is aging yes. The thing he would bring is a championship mentality to a young team. Great leader in the locker room. I say Ed Reed at 34 is better thatn 95% of the 26 year old safeties in the NFL.

 

As for playing FS or SS. Doesn't matter. Bethea and Reed would be a great tandem. Both have great all around skills. Reed is a great ball hawk and he is also one of the best if not the best at rushing the passer in a blitz situation. I think it would be a great move and you can draft his eventual replacement.

 

At 34 he's not going to get a huge contract and I think he would take a fair deal to come to the Colts and reunite with Chuck and Reggie.

[Balzer40]

Well I do. Reed is aging yes. The thing he would bring is a championship mentality to a young team. Great leader in the locker room. I say Ed Reed at 34 is better thatn 95% of the 26 year old safeties in the NFL.

 

As for playing FS or SS. Doesn't matter. Bethea and Reed would be a great tandem. Both have great all around skills. Reed is a great ball hawk and he is also one of the best if not the best at rushing the passer in a blitz situation. I think it would be a great move and you can draft his eventual replacement.

 

At 34 he's not going to get a huge contract and I think he would take a fair deal to come to the Colts and reunite with Chuck and Reggie.

 

 

 

I said in another thread about this topic that people see Reed for who he used to be and not for who he is now. All I'm saying is, that if you are building a young team that you want to play together for the next 4-5 yrs. it isn't a good idea to bring in a guy of Reeds age. 

 

I heard Grigson talk about finding the right mix of youth and veterans, but I don't think he meant a guy that will be retiring in a yr. or 2. I think he's talking about 4th or 5th yr. guys that still have quite a bit left in the tank.

 

IMO I don't see us signing Reed. There are better options available. I also don't see Reed taking a dirt cheap contract like some believe he will, just to be reunited with Pagano and Reggie. This is going to be his last contract and he's going to want market value.

[theanarchist]

I said in another thread about this topic that people see Reed for who he used to be and not for who he is now. All I'm saying is, that if you are building a young team that you want to play together for the next 4-5 yrs. it isn't a good idea to bring in a guy of Reeds age. 

 

I heard Grigson talk about finding the right mix of youth and veterans, but I don't think he meant a guy that will be retiring in a yr. or 2. I think he's talking about 4th or 5th yr. guys that still have quite a bit left in the tank.

 

IMO I don't see us signing Reed. There are better options available. I also don't see Reed taking a dirt cheap contract like some believe he will, just to be reunited with Pagano and Reggie. This is going to be his last contract and he's going to want market value.

I'm not arguing. I just have the opinion that he will take a reasonable salary. I think it would be a good pick up based on what I outlined earlier. Just because he will retire in 2 years doesnt make him a back pick up. Talk about team chemistry. Man, read Bethea's quotes about him and we know the head coach and Reggie have a history with him. I just think in this situation its a good way to go. It isn't like Reed is the worst rated Safety on the market because he's 34 now. He's still a productive player. Not the Ed Reed of 5 years ago but still a better than average NFL safety

[pacolts56]

With Dashon Goldson evidently not being tagged by the 49ers....I'd like to see him or William Moore signed in free agency and Cooper Taylor from Richmond drafted in the mid-rounds.

 

This gives us a solid SS in his prime at a position that...given the depth in this draft and possibly a bit of a depressed market demand...we can afford and absolutely need. I've not seen Taylor play but he sounds like a big, smart, physical and instinctive guy who might be a really good special teams animal....which we can always use....in addition to some SS depth.

 

As far as Ed Reed goes....he seems to be seeking a "legacy contract" to finish out his stellar career....which is a practice that's gotten us into cap trouble in the past.

 

Now.....if he's willing to give Pagano a "legacy discount" at say, 4M for 2 years...then okay, bring him in. But that's just not gonna happen. 

[theanarchist]

With Dashon Goldson evidently not being tagged by the 49ers....I'd like to see him or William Moore signed in free agency and Cooper Taylor from Richmond drafted in the mid-rounds.

 

This gives us a solid SS in his prime at a position that...given the depth in this draft and possibly a bit of a depressed market demand...we can afford and absolutely need. I've not seen Taylor play but he sounds like a big, smart, physical and instinctive guy who might be a really good special teams animal....which we can always use....in addition to some SS depth.

 

As far as Ed Reed goes....he seems to be seeking a "legacy contract" to finish out his stellar career....which is a practice that's gotten us into cap trouble in the past.

 

Now.....if he's willing to give Pagano a "legacy discount" at say, 4M for 2 years...then okay, bring him in. But that's just not gonna happen. 

Where did you get this "legacy contract" quote from?

[Fx Stryker]

Would I love to have Reed? Yes, him and Ray were probably my favorites to never wear a Colt uniform.

 

However, I think the Ravens need to keep Ed. He is a Raven, and it should stay that way.

 

As for who slides over. Bethea without question. Could he play SS? I don't know, but you don't take one of the best to play his position, Reed, and put him somewhere new.

[pacolts56]

Where did you get this "legacy contract" quote from?

It's just a term used for accomplished veterans that are past their prime....but looking for a nice going away present in the form of an overvalued contract.

 

Dan Snyder made an art form of it.

 

Ed Reed wanted to get paid last season...he made that clear. IMO...the Colts simply shouldn't pick up the tab for a 35-year old guy...great as he is.

 

Or was.

[theanarchist]

Well I agree, but I think your making an assumption. Until I see something written that says Ed Reed wants 8 million per year for 5 years then I'm going to hold out hope that he would be willing to play for less than that.

It's just a term used for accomplished veterans that are past their prime....but looking for a nice going away present in the form of an overvalued contract.

 

Dan Snyder made an art form of it.

 

Ed Reed wanted to get paid last season...he made that clear. IMO...the Colts simply shouldn't pick up the tab for a 35-year old guy...great as he is.

 

Or was.

[The Old Crow]

Would I love to have Reed? Yes, him and Ray were probably my favorites to never wear a Colt uniform.

 

However, I think the Ravens need to keep Ed. He is a Raven, and it should stay that way.

 

As for who slides over. Bethea without question. Could he play SS? I don't know, but you don't take one of the best to play his position, Reed, and put him somewhere new.

 

 

Biscotti would definately give Reed a legacy contract like Ray Lewis, including a future coaching position, for a good price. However, I don't think Steve or Ozzie will overpay, especially in lieu of Flacco's contract situation. Ed is a roving safety that can still make big plays, but he is now a poor tackler because of frequent shoulder injuries. A 4 million dollar contract would be appropriate at this stage of his career.

[Balzer40]

I think the fact that it has been reported now that the Ravens are going to let Kruger and Williams walk, is a very good indication that they are going to try the best they can to sign Reed and let him retire a Raven. IMO, there is very little chance that Reed goes anywhere.

[The Old Crow]

I think the fact that it has been reported now that the Ravens are going to let Kruger and Williams walk, is a very good indication that they are going to try the best they can to sign Reed and let him retire a Raven. IMO, there is very little chance that Reed goes anywhere.

 

 

I think their first priority is , as you said, to sign Flacco. The next priority would be getting Ellerbe resigned as inside linebacker. Reed would be next for a reasonable salary, and a chance to be a Raven's coach after playing, as has been reported. Everyone figured that Williams and Kruger were gone. If the Flacco deal is not favorable to the cap, the next wave will be Boldin, Jacoby Jones, and McKinnie. Gradkowski will replace retiring Matt Birk at center. Jai Reed has not been a good defensive tackle, so losing McKinnie would hurt, however you can't give McKinnie too much money because he has a tendancy to show up for training camp out of shape. It's great to win the Super Bowl, but it gets dicey when everyone needs to be paid.

 

I also think the window had shut on the Ravens this season, had they not won. Actually in 2011, they had a better team, but Evans and Cundiff killed them against the Patriots. The Ravens will get some nice compensation picks, in addition to their regular picks, so Ozzie had better do his homework again in the draft, if the Raven's are to continue their runs in the playoffs.

[pacolts56]

Well I agree, but I think your making an assumption. Until I see something written that says Ed Reed wants 8 million per year for 5 years then I'm going to hold out hope that he would be willing to play for less than that.

Trust me....I'd be delighted to have him for between 2-3M a year for 2 years.

 

His leadership and smarts at the FS position are unmatched....and I like the guy.

 

I'm just going on what sounded like a fairly acrimonious pre-season episode between him and the Ravens last year. He did...after all....say he was contemplating retirement, which is what I'm basing the assumption on as far as his asking price. And hiring an agent doesn't sound like a guy who's shopping himself at a bargain price.

 

Hey....let's hope I'm wrong and Pagano can get him in at a friendly price, I'd be all for it.

[chad72]

If Colts fans have been watching Colts games ever since the Larry Coyer years, Bethea has been consistently playing close to the line of scrimmage almost like a strong safety. He probably was top 3 amongst Colts players in tackles that included our LBs. Bullitt, Francisco, Lefeged, Zbikowski have all been given assignments to keep it safe back there by playing behind.

 

It would be a natural fit for Bethea to play SS. Besides, nowadays, strong safeties are basically free safeties that move up to the line of scrimmage more often and cover TEs. Bethea would be JUST FINE doing that and having Ed Reed play centerfield would make Bethea do his job even better, IMO.

[Playoffs2013]

Neither. Ed Reed is going to New England imo. We draft Matt Elam or Kenny Vaccaro and let Bethea keep his FS spot

vacarro is a FS

[bavanlan]

I think Bethea would make a terrific SS; he has all the tools you need.  A couple weeks ago on the radio Polian was talking about how he was drafted to be a cover-2 CB.  He even spent time at NB in our nickel packages where we would being in another safety at FS.

 

I would imagine that part of the reason he's at FS (besides being good there too) is that so he could play alongside Bob Sanders (when Bob Sanders played).

[Tony Sullivan]

Ed Reed played at Miami so hopefully he likes the idea of playing indoors in the winter for a change