the luck to fleener combination hasn't been as good as I thought.

[YOUR GM]

Here we go again, Fleener has better stats than Allen at this point minus the Touchdowns and outperformed him against the Jets where he caught everything catchable thrown at him. So he hasn't had a 100 yard 3 TD game big deal, Luck seems to like throwing that Reggie Wayne guy's direction.

I think Allen is far and away the better player right now, as a blocker and receiver. Fleener has got more targets because he's lined up as a receiver more often than Allen. Allen is our H-back, so a lot of times he's either blocking or he's running basic flats from out of the backfield. His yards per catch is skewed because of that.

[BOTT]

I was going to post something regarding this but didn't want to be a "debbie downer". Since its been posted I'll chime in.

As Mouthfire has pointed out Fleener has been targeted a fair enough amount of times, and has fewer receptions than Gronk. I've seen him miss read where the ball will be and drop some he should have caught. Yes, hes been blocking but the whole thing makes you think what was the motiviation behind drafting him? I mean, did they make a deal with Luck? Because they drafted a far more Clutch Allen right after.

I should add that posing for GQ and the attention received from it has probably been a distraction.

I would much rather have Courtney Upshaw or Cordy Glen right now, thats for darn sure.

upshaw hasn't done squat. i like glenn, but i don't like offensive lineman who come out of college that size....always scared they will eat themselves out of the league.

not sure why this thread was started after what i thought was fleener's best game, but whatever....

[Mouthfire]

With this limited body of work I wouldn't say either is outperforming the other. Like I've said in other threads we have a rookie QB throwing to 2 rookie TEs. I'm glad we have all 3.

Also can't completely disagree with this. With a small sample size, it's hard to make diehard statements.

I will say that Fleener is starting to look a bit more consistent. Time will tell whether he can keep it up.

[Superman]

I don't disagree with you. But at the same time, I'd be hesitant to say that Fleener was outperforming Allen based on the given body of work, especially since it seems that Allen catches practically everything thrown at him and produces touchdowns.

The targets stat can be useless, though, if you don't consider whether the target was catchable. Right now, you're rewarding Allen for catching a well thrown ball and rumbling into the end zone, and you're penalizing Fleener for not catching a poorly thrown ball in the end zone when he was wide open. You have to "wash" targets, if you're going to be fair.

[Mouthfire]

The targets stat can be useless, though, if you don't consider whether the target was catchable. Right now, you're rewarding Allen for catching a well thrown ball and rumbling into the end zone, and you're penalizing Fleener for not catching a poorly thrown ball in the end zone when he was wide open. You have to "wash" targets, if you're going to be fair.

Eh... but who has the time or energy to do that?

[Hans Moleman]

To be fair, those guys weren't getting as many looks as the primary TE in their rookie seasons. Graham came on after Shockey got hurt and Gonzalez never even started his rookie year. Fleener already has as many starts as both of them combined in their rookie seasons

We could dissect the exact differences to no end. Graham also had prime Brees throwing to him once he came on, and if we had other experienced legit NFL options at TE, neither Fleener or Allen would get the same # targets they have. We have no TE depth so we're seeing growing pains in the games instead of in practice (Fleener's had more drops, but Allen's had one or two, as well). Forget the details- the main point remains the same, and that's that TE isn't a position where players usually are major contributors as rookies.

Go down the list of great TE's to have played over the past 20 years and you'd be surprised how rare it is for rookie TE to make a sizeable impact in the passing game their rookie years. What Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski did (each went over 500 yards and had 5+ TD's their rookie seasons) is unheard of, even considering prime Brady was throwing to them. That's created unrealistically high expectations for what we should be expecting out of 2 rookie tight ends with a rookie QB throwing to them.

Fleener will be fine. Allen will be fine. People are overreacting way too quickly here.

The bias that comes with the posts about both of them on this board is mind-boggling considering they're on the same team we're all supposed to be rooting for and both were need players for us. In case anyone's forgetting, we had one TE on our roster going into the draft. That guy was essentially an offensive tackle that got cursed by not quite being big enough and had no other NFL TE skills.

[cbear]

I figured those two would be more on the same page since they played together in college but in the jets game luck threw the ball about five feet above his head. There is noway he would have caught that.

What would be acceptable stats for you right now after five games for Fleener?

[indy1888]

I've been critical of Fleener, but thought he did better in the Jets game. He actually got separation a couple times and for the first time all year i don't think he dropped a pass in the game. That's an improvement.

[Tark The Shark]

I really like Fleener so far.

I personally think that Fleener and Allen aren't utilized properly.

Fleener should be split out wide with Allen as the actual TE.

[vinatierifan4]

I've noticed on third downs and pressure situations luck goes towards Fleener. I mean sure Reggie gets a lot of the catches, but late in that packers game, Luck hit fleener more than once on that last drive. But since he hasn't caught a touchdown yet, he's a bust.

[Poster X]

It

I figured those two would be more on the same page since they played together in college but in the jets game luck threw the ball about five feet above his head. There is noway he would have caught that.

It is still early... and college is a different beast than the NFL.

[Stephen]

how well did dallas clark do his rookie season?

[Gavin]

how well did dallas clark do his rookie season?

10 games played 29 receptions for 340 yards and 1 TD, His next year 15 games played 25 receptions 423 yard 5 touchdowns, Clark did not have a real big year until his 6th year

[Coltsman1788]

I figured those two would be more on the same page since they played together in college but in the jets game luck threw the ball about five feet above his head. There is noway he would have caught that.

Well it seemed Luck was throwing the ball over everyone's head last week. Luck had an off week overall so that game may not be the best example to use. I do agree however that Fleener has been pretty underwhelming overall thus far. I have been much more impressed with Dwayne Allen this season. However, I think that as the Colts improve their offensive line, they will be able to utilize Fleener more effectively. So it may take a year or two before we start to see the kind of production from him that most envisioned.

[Smitto]

Wasn't hernandez a rookie last year? Some of the issue rests on lucks shoulder and Arians.... Target your TE and when you do do it accurately.... I don't like the whole 4 wide thing with an empty back its ridiculous

[YOUR GM]

We could dissect the exact differences to no end. Graham also had prime Brees throwing to him once he came on, and if we had other experienced legit NFL options at TE, neither Fleener or Allen would get the same # targets they have. We have no TE depth so we're seeing growing pains in the games instead of in practice (Fleener's had more drops, but Allen's had one or two, as well). Forget the details- the main point remains the same, and that's that TE isn't a position where players usually are major contributors as rookies.

Go down the list of great TE's to have played over the past 20 years and you'd be surprised how rare it is for rookie TE to make a sizeable impact in the passing game their rookie years. What Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski did (each went over 500 yards and had 5+ TD's their rookie seasons) is unheard of, even considering prime Brady was throwing to them. That's created unrealistically high expectations for what we should be expecting out of 2 rookie tight ends with a rookie QB throwing to them.

Fleener will be fine. Allen will be fine. People are overreacting way too quickly here.

I don't disagree with any of that at all. I was just pointing out that it's not exactly fair to compare Fleener's numbers to either player because they didn't start, whereas he is.

In case anyone's forgetting, we had one TE on our roster going into the draft. That guy was essentially an offensive tackle that got cursed by not quite being big enough and had no other NFL TE skills.

Yeah, I didn't agree with the decision to release ALL our TE's at all. That just created unnecessary voids in an already depleted roster. Regardless of how Fleener and Allen turn out, that was one wasted draft pick dedicated to filling a need we created senselessly. Fleener appears to be in the mold of the 2 players we released (Tamme and Clark) so the question begs to be asked, why part ways with both of them at all? I can understand not resigning Clark, but Tamme is a young receiving TE just like Fleener. That 2nd round pick could've been used to address more pressing needs. He's a Colt now, so I'll support him. I just don't understand the logic behind those series of moves

[CrazyCaliColtFan]

I think Fleener, like all rookies, is still adjusting to the pace of the game etc. It will all come together... we have a lot of to be talent growing on that field

[Dark Superman]

Both rookies, totally different stage than college.. Both guys are starting to come around.. I think once we build up our offensive line you will see Fleener work to his potential and that's using his speed to get down the field and create chaos for the linebackers.

[BOTT]

Wasn't hernandez a rookie last year? Some of the issue rests on lucks shoulder and Arians.... Target your TE and when you do do it accurately.... I don't like the whole 4 wide thing with an empty back its ridiculous

this is hernandez 3rd year

[Smitto]

this is hernandez 3rd year

noticed he was drafted in 2010... Point is he was being targeted unlike how the colts are utilizing their TEs

[RGIII]

Odd and inaccurate posts here.

Luck has been missing EVERYBODY. Circus catches by Reggie are saving him from LOTS of jibberish Bust talk.

Clearly Fleener is doing just fine under the circumstances.

Lucks lack of accuracy is a HUGE Disappointment.

NOT at all the player we were sold in that regard. Grade him a D on accuracy.

He has missed MANY short easy passes with NO excuse. Throws behind all the time or over their heads. It is UGLY!!

Unfortunately, I think you're a little bit closer to the truth than a lot of other people are. Fleener hasn't been incredibly impressive but rookie TEs often aren't to start with. Luck's accuracy is definitely the bigger problem right now. That said, it's a bit more complicated than it would be if Luck simply couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He can. In fact, he has moments where he displays fantastic accuracy but there are a number of other factors at play that hurt him.

Here's the short list of generally inter-related things I've noticed that have been detrimental to Luck's production as a rookie thus far:

1. Bruce Arians/The Offensive Scheme. You guys are running a scheme that is much more vertical than what a lot of teams run and certainly all of the other teams with rookie QBs. Many of the routes take a while to develop and against the Jets in particular you really didn't have anything open or available underneath when the pressure was coming. Luck is not Roethlisberger, he doesn't have that unique, innate ability that Ben does to stretch out every single play until a guy can get open. I'm not entirely sure Arians realizes this.

2. The complete absence of a running game only compounds the issues you're having with a vertical offense. Your playaction game isn't believable, so it rarely sucks the linebackers up and achieves its intended purpose. Your interior offensive line is pretty terrible in this regard and your runners are just as bad. I'm struggling to think of the last time a rookie QB looked good without a solid rushing game to help him out.

3. Luck "likes" to make difficult throws. It's not uncommon for him to try to make the more difficult throw to Reggie where he has to drop it in over the head of a LB and underneath a safety, attempt a back shoulder throw, or try to fit one into a REALLY tight window. I've also seen him look late and/or hesitate a bit on the easier stuff, which typically becomes much more difficult to complete when you throw late on the route. It's great that he's willing and confident enough to really attack opposing defenses and it has resulted in a few fantastic plays but the team needs consistency right now above all else. He needs to learn to pick his spots better.

4. This one is very subjective but it seemed to me like Luck is not exactly the most cool when under pressure from the pass-rush. He doesn't seem to be afraid of taking a shot by the looks of things but his body language seems to become a bit more frenetic the longer he sits in the pocket. I have a hard time describing it but he seems more antsy to unload the ball and less composed *from the waist up* than what I would hope for. When it comes to the pressure of the moment and big game situations he's pretty darn good, though.

5. Luck's accuracy seems to deteriorate rapidly when he doesn't throw off a good base. He can throw on the run, for sure, but if you force him to throw off-balance, off his back foot, or deliver at an unconventional angle he is way off the mark more often than not. It's not an unusual problem, really, as accuracy is generally supposed to decrease in those situations but many strong-armed QBs excel at making these kinds of tough throws.

None of those things are cause for any real concern, they're just areas of necessary development for Luck as an individual and for the Colts team. That list is ordered in terms of greatest problem to least as I see it and I have to emphasize once again that I would be livid about the way your offense is being run if I was a Colts fan.

[BOTT]

Unfortunately, I think you're a little bit closer to the truth than a lot of other people are. Fleener hasn't been incredibly impressive but rookie TEs often aren't to start with. Luck's accuracy is definitely the bigger problem right now. That said, it's a bit more complicated than it would be if Luck simply couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He can. In fact, he has moments where he displays fantastic accuracy but there are a number of other factors at play that hurt him.

Here's the short list of generally inter-related things I've noticed that have been detrimental to Luck's production as a rookie thus far:

1. Bruce Arians/The Offensive Scheme. You guys are running a scheme that is much more vertical than what a lot of teams run and certainly all of the other teams with rookie QBs. Many of the routes take a while to develop and against the Jets in particular you really didn't have anything open or available underneath when the pressure was coming. Luck is not Roethlisberger, he doesn't have that unique, innate ability that Ben does to stretch out every single play until a guy can get open. I'm not entirely sure Arians realizes this.

2. The complete absence of a running game only compounds the issues you're having with a vertical offense. Your playaction game isn't believable, so it rarely sucks the linebackers up and achieves its intended purpose. Your interior offensive line is pretty terrible in this regard and your runners are just as bad. I'm struggling to think of the last time a rookie QB looked good without a solid rushing game to help him out.

3. Luck "likes" to make difficult throws. It's not uncommon for him to try to make the more difficult throw to Reggie where he has to drop it in over the head of a LB and underneath a safety, attempt a back shoulder throw, or try to fit one into a REALLY tight window. I've also seen him look late and/or hesitate a bit on the easier stuff, which typically becomes much more difficult to complete when you throw late on the route. It's great that he's willing and confident enough to really attack opposing defenses and it has resulted in a few fantastic plays but the team needs consistency right now above all else. He needs to learn to pick his spots better.

4. This one is very subjective but it seemed to me like Luck is not exactly the most cool when under pressure from the pass-rush. He doesn't seem to be afraid of taking a shot by the looks of things but his body language seems to become a bit more frenetic the longer he sits in the pocket. I have a hard time describing it but he seems more antsy to unload the ball and less composed *from the waist up* than what I would hope for. When it comes to the pressure of the moment and big game situations he's pretty darn good, though.

5. Luck's accuracy seems to deteriorate rapidly when he doesn't throw off a good base. He can throw on the run, for sure, but if you force him to throw off-balance, off his back foot, or deliver at an unconventional angle he is way off the mark more often than not. It's not an unusual problem, really, as accuracy is generally supposed to decrease in those situations but many strong-armed QBs excel at making these kinds of tough throws.

None of those things are cause for any real concern, they're just areas of necessary development for Luck as an individual and for the Colts team. That list is ordered in terms of greatest problem to least as I see it and I have to emphasize once again that I would be livid about the way your offense is being run if I was a Colts fan.

and this was the short list? dear god....how can anyone take this seriously?

[RGIII]

and this was the short list? dear god....how can anyone take this seriously?

What? Five things is too long for you? Should I have limited it to just two things? ;)

You don't have to take it seriously. In fact, I don't expect anyone to because I'm not a Colts fan (although I have no compelling reason to dislike your franchise and generally wish you guys the best) and you have very little means of verifying how qualified I am to comment because I don't have much of a track record here. I think it would be fair to say that a lot of people would agree with me on the first two points and the last three aren't really high concern areas for a rookie and are more nitpicking than anything else.

[TKnight24]

Smh, STILL not understanding the Fleener Hate. I have yet to see him do anything that would make me Regret Drafting him

[Gavin]

Im personally hoping Rick Dennison becomes available for the Texans by the time Arians contract is up (I'd love for the Colts to go back to a Zone Blocking scheme) the playcalling in Houston is pretty balanced out there both in run pass ratio and types of throws and and the timing of when they are made

[Captain Americolt]

Im personally hoping Rick Dennison becomes available for the Texans by the time Arians contract is up (I'd love for the Colts to go back to a Zone Blocking scheme) the playcalling in Houston is pretty balanced out there both in run pass ratio and types of throws and and the timing of when they are made

They actually have a running game. And very solid starters throughout the o-line. To think Dennison is going to come here and make us look like that is crazy. They can be balanced because their personnel allows them too.

[BOTT]

What? Five things is too long for you? Should I have limited it to just two things? ;)

You don't have to take it seriously. In fact, I don't expect anyone to because I'm not a Colts fan (although I have no compelling reason to dislike your franchise and generally wish you guys the best) and you have very little means of verifying how qualified I am to comment because I don't have much of a track record here. I think it would be fair to say that a lot of people would agree with me on the first two points and the last three aren't really high concern areas for a rookie and are more nitpicking than anything else.

don't take it personally....i think this way about every post over one paragraph.

[Hans Moleman]

Yeah, I didn't agree with the decision to release ALL our TE's at all. That just created unnecessary voids in an already depleted roster. Regardless of how Fleener and Allen turn out, that was one wasted draft pick dedicated to filling a need we created senselessly. Fleener appears to be in the mold of the 2 players we released (Tamme and Clark) so the question begs to be asked, why part ways with both of them at all? I can understand not resigning Clark, but Tamme is a young receiving TE just like Fleener. That 2nd round pick could've been used to address more pressing needs. He's a Colt now, so I'll support him. I just don't understand the logic behind those series of moves

I definitely agree with this. I think Clark was basically done anyways, but I don't know why we didn't bring Tamme back. Does anyone know if we offered to keep him and he chose to follow Peyton or did we just let him walk?

Either way, that created a gaping hole at the spot that almost guaranteed we had to spend at least one high pick on a TE (we had to come out of the draft with at least 2). It sucks that our hands were essentially tied there, but on the plus side, I had Fleener and Allen rated as the top two TE's in last year's class and the two are great complements to each other's game. As long as we can keep working to patch our other holes up, I do think it's a move that'll pay dividends in the long term.

[GoColts8818]

I think Tamme was let go simply because of money and the fact they felt good about the chance of getting a younger version of him in the draft. I know Tamme didn't get a big contract from the Broncos but with the limited cap space the Colts had I think they wanted to use it more on other players to fill other needs knowing they could get a younger tightend to grow up with Luck in the draft. I know the Colts don't like to use the rebuilding word but it's plan as day that is what they are doing. You just have to read between the lines a little bit kinda like when a politician tells you they aren't conceding a state in an election but yet stops spending money there and stops making visits. That's what the Colts are doing they are telling people they aren't rebuilding but you don't make the moves the Colts did this off-season and not be rebuilding. Tamme was a part of that process. Except now they got a younger version of him that can grow up with Luck and hopefully come into his prime WITH Luck where as Tamme would have probably becoming to the end of his prime as Luck was hitting his.

[YOUR GM]

Im personally hoping Rick Dennison becomes available for the Texans by the time Arians contract is up (I'd love for the Colts to go back to a Zone Blocking scheme) the playcalling in Houston is pretty balanced out there both in run pass ratio and types of throws and and the timing of when they are made

I'm pretty sure Kubiak is the one calling plays in Houston

[John Dee]

fleener hasn't been involved in the passing game as much because he's left back to block most of the time.

Not because he is left to block all the time, Fleener is either dropping "bunnys" or there is no ....... nothing.

Start running the ball, and then we will ALL see Fleener getting DEEP.

No time to pass = no time for a TE to go long.

This just in.... Indy's OL sucks... pretty bad.

[John Dee]

Unfortunately, I think you're a little bit closer to the truth than a lot of other people are. Fleener hasn't been incredibly impressive but rookie TEs often aren't to start with. Luck's accuracy is definitely the bigger problem right now. That said, it's a bit more complicated than it would be if Luck simply couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He can. In fact, he has moments where he displays fantastic accuracy but there are a number of other factors at play that hurt him.

Here's the short list of generally inter-related things I've noticed that have been detrimental to Luck's production as a rookie thus far:

1. Bruce Arians/The Offensive Scheme. You guys are running a scheme that is much more vertical than what a lot of teams run and certainly all of the other teams with rookie QBs. Many of the routes take a while to develop and against the Jets in particular you really didn't have anything open or available underneath when the pressure was coming. Luck is not Roethlisberger, he doesn't have that unique, innate ability that Ben does to stretch out every single play until a guy can get open. I'm not entirely sure Arians realizes this.

2. The complete absence of a running game only compounds the issues you're having with a vertical offense. Your playaction game isn't believable, so it rarely sucks the linebackers up and achieves its intended purpose. Your interior offensive line is pretty terrible in this regard and your runners are just as bad. I'm struggling to think of the last time a rookie QB looked good without a solid rushing game to help him out.

3. Luck "likes" to make difficult throws. It's not uncommon for him to try to make the more difficult throw to Reggie where he has to drop it in over the head of a LB and underneath a safety, attempt a back shoulder throw, or try to fit one into a REALLY tight window. I've also seen him look late and/or hesitate a bit on the easier stuff, which typically becomes much more difficult to complete when you throw late on the route. It's great that he's willing and confident enough to really attack opposing defenses and it has resulted in a few fantastic plays but the team needs consistency right now above all else. He needs to learn to pick his spots better.

4. This one is very subjective but it seemed to me like Luck is not exactly the most cool when under pressure from the pass-rush. He doesn't seem to be afraid of taking a shot by the looks of things but his body language seems to become a bit more frenetic the longer he sits in the pocket. I have a hard time describing it but he seems more antsy to unload the ball and less composed *from the waist up* than what I would hope for. When it comes to the pressure of the moment and big game situations he's pretty darn good, though.

5. Luck's accuracy seems to deteriorate rapidly when he doesn't throw off a good base. He can throw on the run, for sure, but if you force him to throw off-balance, off his back foot, or deliver at an unconventional angle he is way off the mark more often than not. It's not an unusual problem, really, as accuracy is generally supposed to decrease in those situations but many strong-armed QBs excel at making these kinds of tough throws.

None of those things are cause for any real concern, they're just areas of necessary development for Luck as an individual and for the Colts team. That list is ordered in terms of greatest problem to least as I see it and I have to emphasize once again that I would be livid about the way your offense is being run if I was a Colts fan.

Heeheheh..

The NY Giants await.

If he burns them up i will officially join he club. Although I know AL is superior.

However, ... If RG3 keeps thinking he will run 10 plus times a game.....

Redskin fan better be ready for a big heartbreak.

[RGIII]

Heeheheh..

The NY Giants await.

If he burns them up i will officially join he club. Although I know AL is superior.

However, ... If RG3 keeps thinking he will run 10 plus times a game.....

Redskin fan better be ready for a big heartbreak.

Not really a thread-relevant comment but I'll play ball. Griffin is the only rookie who hasn't yet looked especially like a rookie (outside of needing to learn to protect himself out in space, of course). I've been pretty high on him for obvious reasons but I like to keep my expectations in check, so I looked at the coach's tape to find some flaws and came out the other end in even more awe than I was to begin with. Both Griffin and our offensive scheme have vastly exceeded my wildest expectations for what I thought we'd be capable of this season. Unfortunately, that comes along with our defense underperforming in similarly spectacular fashion.

I definitely agree that Griffin is due for a disappointing game sooner than later. NFC East games are mighty hard to predict and anything can happen, though. So far as I can remember, Eli's never had a truly great game against the Redskins... but they've still tended to beat us more consistently than either Dallas or Philly have thanks to some great rushing performances. They also lost to us twice last year with Sexy Rexy at the helm... but then won the Super Bowl, so I can't honestly make heads or tails of the situation. They're already 0-2 in the division, though, so if we win we put them in a huge hole in the playoff race and take the division lead.

It'll be interesting to see what happens but both myself and the entire Redskins fanbase would love to stick it to John Mara after he did the impossible with Capgate and positioned himself and his franchise as public enemy #1 ahead of the Cowboys.

[crestmount]

Well I am shocked--Fleener is no Gronk. I would never have guessed that

Let's get some perspective people, Luck, Fleener and Allen are all rookies--they will be pretty handy in time

[YOUR GM]

Unfortunately, I think you're a little bit closer to the truth than a lot of other people are. Fleener hasn't been incredibly impressive but rookie TEs often aren't to start with. Luck's accuracy is definitely the bigger problem right now. That said, it's a bit more complicated than it would be if Luck simply couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He can. In fact, he has moments where he displays fantastic accuracy but there are a number of other factors at play that hurt him.

Here's the short list of generally inter-related things I've noticed that have been detrimental to Luck's production as a rookie thus far:

1. Bruce Arians/The Offensive Scheme. You guys are running a scheme that is much more vertical than what a lot of teams run and certainly all of the other teams with rookie QBs. Many of the routes take a while to develop and against the Jets in particular you really didn't have anything open or available underneath when the pressure was coming. Luck is not Roethlisberger, he doesn't have that unique, innate ability that Ben does to stretch out every single play until a guy can get open. I'm not entirely sure Arians realizes this.

That's actually the opposite of true. Luck has already extended numerous plays with his mobility and pocket presence. The Greenbay game is a perfect example of such. I'd venture to say that if Luck weren't so good at doing so, there would be a lot more calls for Arians head right now. The majority of the big plays we made in that game were from busted plays that Luck extended and delivered key conversions on. That 3rd and long in the 4th quarter where he had 2 defenders hanging from him and he still stepped up and delivered the ball to Wayne, keeping the game winning drive alive. That was vintage Ben, to me.

At any rate, if Luck keeps taking the hits that he is every week, I hope it's enough for Grigson and co to re-evaluate whether or not we should stick with Arians going forward. I understand the o-line has struggled with protection, but when that's the case, that's when the coordinator needs to step in and call a gameplan that protects the o-line. Not continue forward with the same 5-7 step drop back passes that are getting the QB hammered every week.

That list is ordered in terms of greatest problem to least as I see it and I have to emphasize once again that I would be livid about the way your offense is being run if I was a Colts fan.

Oh, some of us already are. Give it time. Others will take notice as well. I wouldn't be surprised if that "fire Bruce Arians" website is relaunched by the end of the season. Especially if Luck gets hurt

[Kleats]

I think they compliment each other very well as do Reggie and Donie Avery\

...I think we're really going to like this set of receivers as we get into the bulk of the season...

But I'm surprised folks dont seem to understand about how rookies have to adjust to the NFL

Yep . Its like moving into a new place and trying to find all the light switches with the lights off . It takes a while to get settled in . It's obvious some have it in for Fleener - for some unknown reason . Its pretty goofy . Whatever ..........

[Freenyfan102]

Yeah but i have been noticing every time luck throw the ball it above the WR head and they have to do a leaping catch

[Kleats]

Finally .... the first of what will be many . Grats kid .

[Playoffs2013]

It's better than the RG3 to Kirk cousins connection

[#12]

Yeah, I didn't agree with the decision to release ALL our TE's at all. That just created unnecessary voids in an already depleted roster. Regardless of how Fleener and Allen turn out, that was one wasted draft pick dedicated to filling a need we created senselessly. Fleener appears to be in the mold of the 2 players we released (Tamme and Clark) so the question begs to be asked, why part ways with both of them at all? I can understand not resigning Clark, but Tamme is a young receiving TE just like Fleener. That 2nd round pick could've been used to address more pressing needs. He's a Colt now, so I'll support him. I just don't understand the logic behind those series of moves

Allen wasn't the plan. Grigson had planned to go CB with the pick, but in seeing nothing else he liked in the round, he went BPA. Had he seen something he liked, I assume he would have gone cheap on a blocking TE in free agency. I understand what you're saying about Tamme/Fleener, but the pick they were planning to shore up other areas with was the Allen pick.